who said you need cleric?

hemoglobin
hemoglobin Posts: 1 Arc User
edited April 2010 in General Discussion
lookie, we did rankar with only wizzy healz ^_^
wizzyhealz.jpg
Post edited by hemoglobin on
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Comments

  • Teumessia - Heavens Tear
    Teumessia - Heavens Tear Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Cleric buffs?
  • Alliptica - Raging Tide
    Alliptica - Raging Tide Posts: 1,545 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    yeah lol the cleric left after he died b:chuckle

    actually what happened was. the barb wanted to tank. but the hercless veno at the bottom of the list hit the boss first and it killed her. so then the barb runs rankar and the cleric ran after him trying to heal and got hit by the aoe and died.
    -retired-

    now playing megaten and...Forsaken World ;)
  • Islamey - Dreamweaver
    Islamey - Dreamweaver Posts: 586 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    cool story bro
    The chillum is sometimes referred to as a chalice, based on a quote from the Biblical book of Deuteronomy. Thanks and praises are offered to Jah before smoking the chillum.
  • Flickerfae - Sanctuary
    Flickerfae - Sanctuary Posts: 351 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Nicely done. (And shame on the cleric for leaving, A good cleric never abandons a squad mid-run.)

    Hope you didn't have to do Wyvern with only a wizzie, though. b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    -Ignoring my main for alts since early '09
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    yeah lol the cleric left after he died b:chuckle

    My only question is... how did the cleric die?

    Come on, two venos and an assassin and a cleric still dies? Either he healed far too early and you just let him die, or you DDs failed in your own minor role of taking aggro off a monster the cleric may accidentally get aggro from.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Yulk - Heavens Tear
    Yulk - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,951 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    My only question is... how did the cleric die?

    Come on, two venos and an assassin and a cleric still dies? Either he healed far too early and you just let him die, or you DDs failed in your own minor role of taking aggro off a monster the cleric may accidentally get aggro from.

    Your right, either one of the 2... On top of that, BH too LOL

    My wiz is a healer and tanker
    Same goes for my cleric b:avoid
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Thanks for Flauschkatze for siggy b:cool

    VIT > STR > DEX > MAG... GG
    HA > LA > AR... GG

    HA + VIT = win b:bye
  • Roseary - Sanctuary
    Roseary - Sanctuary Posts: 978 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    My fist guess is, the barb wanted to drag Wyvern to the BB so he made cleric BB and went to get wyvern. Instead of hitting wyvern he used Earthflame(aka genie lure), so when BB healed him wyvern ran straight to the cleric and Nom'd on him/her. This was a fail on the barbs part.. what I just posted is what happened exactly to me one time in a group of randoms. Around the time I decided most randoms are as dumb as a rock.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Lylfo - Dreamweaver
    Lylfo - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    fb 51 : wywern - amp damage
    fb 59 : all doable without cleric, (careful on drake/glut's stacking fire dot)
    fb 69 : pole - massive def debuff, nob - amp damage
    fb 79 : doable without cleric

    see? clerics are not that important after all
    Thanks Chillum for the nice Sig.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    fb 51 : wywern - amp damage
    fb 59 : all doable without cleric, (careful on drake/glut's stacking fire dot)
    fb 69 : pole - massive def debuff, nob - amp damage
    fb 79 : doable without cleric

    see? clerics are not that important after all

    51, 59 and 79 as well I do believe: all Herc-tankable.

    So, if you want to let your pride get all walked over about it just because a cleric isn't always needed, then you're going to be even more disappointed to hear that sometimes nobody but a pet needs heals! Who needs wizards OR clerics when you have venos?!

    Honestly now. Don't get angry about it just because you aren't as needed as you'd like to think you are.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Flickerfae - Sanctuary
    Flickerfae - Sanctuary Posts: 351 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I have been that wizzie.

    b:cute

    If you have a really good barbarian, a decent wizard (2k heals and sutra in case of emergency) and a decent psychic, you can do wyvern bh with just wizard heals.

    I hear that alacrity of the beast can really help, for example.

    Ooh nice.

    Being a cleric, I've never been in squad without one. Can't wait for my wizzie and veno alts to get to a high enough level to see the other side. b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    -Ignoring my main for alts since early '09
  • Crypsis - Lost City
    Crypsis - Lost City Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    My only question is... how did the cleric die?

    Come on, two venos and an assassin and a cleric still dies? Either he healed far too early and you just let him die, or you DDs failed in your own minor role of taking aggro off a monster the cleric may accidentally get aggro from.

    I think the cleric died the usual way. Many clerics sets up a healing macro and goes afk - not realizing they're Rankar/Wyvern aoe-range.

    Have seen about 30 clerics die that way in fb 51 >.<

    A barb thats awake would try to lure the boss away a bit so afk people dont get hit by aoe, but who is awake during a bh with randoms O_O
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    This maybe so but you all better have a few res scrolls in case any of you ends up dieing.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Isjitar - Sanctuary
    Isjitar - Sanctuary Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Hope you didn't have to do Wyvern with only a wizzie, though. b:chuckle

    It's possible, I've done it myself :3
    But yeah, for alot of things people say you really need a cleric, but thats not true, alot of time a wiz can do the job. Cleric makes it easier though. And if the squad does stupid things, like running in a group of mobs unannounced, wiz might not be able to heal fast enough because of the +/- 6 sec heal. Also, the tank never understands that if he runs out of the healers range while the healer is casting a heal, it will delete ._. for clerics it isnt a big problem because of their fast heal, but it happends me alot >.< and then blaming me for not healing fast enough.

    But well, clerics are often overestimated but for alot of things we just need them. Their buffs are awsome and they can heal fast and stack heals and purify and squad heal and... well, no need to tell more here.
  • Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary
    Scorched_Sky - Sanctuary Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    fb 69 : pole - massive def debuff, nob - amp damage

    Although I know this is not realistic, I proved I could solo heal pole halfway through yesterday xDD

    Cleric got too close, died from aoe, ragequit.
    I healed barb rest of the way, and pole used debuff once, which I nullified with my 10% proc purify with elemental shell. Was epic b:victory.
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Although I know this is not realistic, I proved I could solo heal pole halfway through yesterday xDD

    Cleric got too close, died from aoe, ragequit.
    I healed barb rest of the way, and pole used debuff once, which I nullified with my 10% proc purify with elemental shell. Was epic b:victory.

    I imagine this was wined try the 3 x20 quest and see how far you get with your heals.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • axt57
    axt57 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    hemoglobin wrote: »
    lookie, we did rankar with only wizzy healz ^_^
    wizzyhealz.jpg

    You have mail.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Delahk - Sanctuary
    Delahk - Sanctuary Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Good, now I can bug the wizzies I squad with to "HEAL ME NAO!!!" when I steal agro.
  • Lylfo - Dreamweaver
    Lylfo - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,166 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    51, 59 and 79 as well I do believe: all Herc-tankable.

    So, if you want to let your pride get all walked over about it just because a cleric isn't always needed, then you're going to be even more disappointed to hear that sometimes nobody but a pet needs heals! Who needs wizards OR clerics when you have venos?!

    Honestly now. Don't get angry about it just because you aren't as needed as you'd like to think you are.

    1. I'm not angry at all. It was a straightforward post telling you what's doable with and without cleric.

    2. For your herc comment, try tanking bh79 with herc with a full lvl 90+ squad members going all out. You'll see why it is a bad idea. Well, you can have them nerf their damage tho.

    3. Either way, the truth is, later on, barbs and clerics are easily replaceable when other classes begin to be able to play multiple roles. But remember, barbs and clerics can be dds too. As long as you can get your stuff done, there is no reason to restrict someone to a role just because he play a class.
    Thanks Chillum for the nice Sig.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • OIdpop - Heavens Tear
    OIdpop - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,052 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    bah my bm makes fb 51 look like a fb 19
    This game is like washing hair with shampoo... Rinse and repeat if desired.
    Proud owner of many mains.101 bm,101 seeker,101 demon sin,100 sage sin,101 archer,101 barb,100 cleric,100 wiz( first toon since sept 08 finally made it in 2013)newly added mystic 100 HA,72 psy.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    I'm not angry at all. It was a straightforward post telling you what's doable with and without cleric. Try tanking bh79 with herc with a full lvl 90+ squad members going all out. You'll see why it is a bad idea. Well, you can have them nerf their damage tho. Either way, the truth is, later on, barbs and clerics are easily replaceable when other classes begin to be able to play multiple roles.

    My apologies then, I mistook your post for sarcasm where there was none.

    I will say in relation to this post however, that going all out when a Herc tanks is never a smart idea. It seems to be the newer generation who can't comprehend that a Herc does not, can not and will not spam Bash like a barb can spam Flesh Ream, and better yet they don't seem to realise that they have to stop attacking if they steal from any pet, otherwise the pet will not get aggro back.
    These nubs are getting into the level ranges of BH69/79 sadly, so right now I'd have to agree that a Herc tank in 79 is a bad idea. Not because it can't, but because there are a lot of stupid people who really can't comprehend how aggro works.

    In a squad of good 90+ people, 79 should run smoothly no matter who the tank.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    My apologies then, I mistook your post for sarcasm where there was none.

    I will say in relation to this post however, that going all out when a Herc tanks is never a smart idea. It seems to be the newer generation who can't comprehend that a Herc does not, can not and will not spam Bash like a barb can spam Flesh Ream, and better yet they don't seem to realise that they have to stop attacking if they steal from any pet, otherwise the pet will not get aggro back.
    These nubs are getting into the level ranges of BH69/79 sadly, so right now I'd have to agree that a Herc tank in 79 is a bad idea. Not because it can't, but because there are a lot of stupid people who really can't comprehend how aggro works.

    In a squad of good 90+ people, 79 should run smoothly no matter who the tank.

    A Herc can spam bash just a good a Barb can with flesh ream.Veno who have a herc better know how to use them for agro control.I would say a herc Veno would be better suited for this.

    I would say 69,79, 89 and 99 unwined you would definitely need a cleric or 2 for them.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    A Herc can spam bash just a good a Barb can with flesh ream.Veno who have a herc better know how to use them for agro control.I would say a herc Veno would be better suited for this.

    You miss my point entirely.

    Now I haven't played my barb in a long time, but I'm pretty sure a level 10 FR has a shorter cooldown than a pet's Bash does [as Bash never has a cooldown decrease if I remember correctly, only a damage increase] meaning that, as a general rule of thumb, Flesh Ream is more spammable then Bash.
    You also need to factor in that a pet will automatically use Bash if you have that as it's default skill. Meaning if somebody steals from any pet - Herc or not - by going all out, there may still be a few seconds before the pet can use Bash again, even if it catches the mob. A barb, provided he has the chi, has probably already got FR at the ready.

    The few seconds difference between a barb being able to use FR immediately upon a steal or as close to immediately as possible in contrast to a pet may not seem like very much, but it makes a huge difference.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    You miss my point entirely.

    Now I haven't played my barb in a long time, but I'm pretty sure a level 10 FR has a shorter cooldown than a pet's Bash does [as Bash never has a cooldown decrease if I remember correctly, only a damage increase] meaning that, as a general rule of thumb, Flesh Ream is more spammable then Bash.
    You also need to factor in that a pet will automatically use Bash if you have that as it's default skill. Meaning if somebody steals from any pet - Herc or not - by going all out, there may still be a few seconds before the pet can use Bash again, even if it catches the mob. A barb, provided he has the chi, has probably already got FR at the ready.

    The few seconds difference between a barb being able to use FR immediately upon a steal or as close to immediately as possible in contrast to a pet may not seem like very much, but it makes a huge difference.
    This is the difference nad I don't think so and it requires chi.
    Skill
    Flesh Ream Level 10
    Available in tiger form
    Range Melee
    Mana 43.2
    Channel 0.2 seconds
    Cast 1.0 seconds
    Cooldown 3.0 seconds
    Weapon Axe, Poleaxe, Hammer or Polehammer, Unarmed

    Requisite Cultivation Spiritual Adept
    Rip the enemy's flesh drawing their aggression onto you,
    inflicting base physical damage and causing bleeding,
    inflicting 1900.1 damage over 15 seconds.
    100 percent accurate.

    Requires 20 Chi

    Bashing Level 5
    Pet level 80
    SP 25.000
    Cooldown

    8 seconds
    A single violent attack against enemy, causing 200% damage in basic attack.
    Flesh Ream may have shorter cool down then bash but it doesn't need chi.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Flesh Ream may have shorter cool down then bash but it doesn't need chi.

    Most barbs have enough chi to use FR upon a steal. According to your own descriptions there, there is a five second difference in cooldowns.

    Let's say you have an archer going all out against a physical mob a barbarian is tanking.

    In the case of the barbarian, on the assumption that the barbarian has chi because they typically do:

    The archer goes all out and steals. The mob is a physical, so the mob has to run up to the archer before it can hit it. The barb in tiger form has a running speed faster than the mob, so there is already a chance it will catch the mob before it even reaches the archer and hit it with FR, grabbing aggro back.

    With a pet:

    The archer goes all out and steals. The mob is physical so it has to run to the archer before it can hit it. The pet doesn't run as fast as the barbarian does. The archer's probably going to get slapped before the pet can reach the mob. If the pet had also just used bash, there is a five second gap between the pet being able to take aggro back in contrast to the barbarian.

    The point still stands: a barb is a more reliable source of threat when it comes to taking aggro back. He can spam flesh ream more often than a pet can spam bash and is more likely to take aggro back from a theft in a shorter amount of time.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Most barbs have enough chi to use FR upon a steal. According to your own descriptions there, there is a five second difference in cooldowns.

    Let's say you have an archer going all out against a physical mob a barbarian is tanking.

    In the case of the barbarian, on the assumption that the barbarian has chi because they typically do:

    The archer goes all out and steals. The mob is a physical, so the mob has to run up to the archer before it can hit it. The barb in tiger form has a running speed faster than the mob, so there is already a chance it will catch the mob before it even reaches the archer and hit it with FR, grabbing aggro back.

    With a pet:

    The archer goes all out and steals. The mob is physical so it has to run to the archer before it can hit it. The pet doesn't run as fast as the barbarian does. The archer's probably going to get slapped before the pet can reach the mob. If the pet had also just used bash, there is a five second gap between the pet being able to take aggro back in contrast to the barbarian.

    The point still stands: a barb is a more reliable source of threat when it comes to taking aggro back. He can spam flesh ream more often than a pet can spam bash and is more likely to take aggro back from a theft in a shorter amount of time.

    This maybe so but my Herc can run at the same speed as Barb in tiger form.You might want to take these pet speeds into account Baby Herc

    Her is my Herc stats 20100404165943.jpg
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    This maybe so but my Herc can run at the same speed as Barb in tiger form.You might want to take these pet speeds into account Baby Herc

    Um... no.

    You do realise that that a barb can run well over 8.1 m/s with tiger form at max and an archer speed buff, right? Right?

    So, you've just conceded to my point that a barb can spam FR more than a pet can spam bash after trying to argue with me about it...

    And you're now trying to tell me a Herc can run as fast as a barb in tiger form, without considering the fact a barb can have the archer speed buff, meaning he will run faster than a Herc any day of the week.

    Please, I admire your attempts to argue and you make some relatively good points, but please just stop and seriously think about what you're saying sometimes. I would know how fast a Herc runs, because my venomancer has one. In general, the barbarian is still going to run faster, because nine out of ten times, he's going to have speed buffs the Herc can never have.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    That maybe but that is baby herc as when they get older their speed increases as you can see by mine is faster than 7.1m/s.I looked up true form lvl 10 and it doesn't say only 50 % faster.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    On top of what Airyl said, there's also the fact that Barbs can use their genies to assit them with skills like Alpha male and, if the monster is somehow able to outrun the barb, Holy Path.


    As for your comment about unwined 69/79 not being do-able without a cleric, my veno who's solo'd her unwined BH79/69s would like a word with you. Even in a squad situation, the regular monsters are easy enough for the various classes to handle on their own if they do take aggro, and all that my squad has to do against the bosses is hold back on their damage output so they don't take aggro. As long as the squad is decent, a herc can do fine in 79. (For 69, If a herc is tanking then I'd want a group that can either alternate lightning chaser to stop Pole from debuffing, or a class capable of canceling spells with certain skills).


    Edit: level 3 true form alone gets a barb to 7.4. If they have a level 10 speed buff from an archer, that becomes 8.1. If they have sage or demon true form, it's 7.8. With level 10 speed buff from an archer, that goes up to 8.5. With Demon speed buff from an archer, that's 8.8. Level 90 herc runs at 8.1


    Oh and with Holy Path or Elven Alacrity that's 15.0 for the barb completely nullifying any speed advantage the herc may even be able to think of claiming to have..
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    truekossy wrote: »
    On top of what Airyl said, there's also the fact that Barbs can use their genies to assit them with skills like Alpha male and, if the monster is somehow able to outrun the barb, Holy Path.


    As for your comment about unwined 69/79 not being do-able without a cleric, my veno who's solo'd her unwined BH79/69s would like a word with you. Even in a squad situation, the regular monsters are easy enough for the various classes to handle on their own if they do take aggro, and all that my squad has to do against the bosses is hold back on their damage output so they don't take aggro. As long as the squad is decent, a herc can do fine in 79. (For 69, If a herc is tanking then I'd want a group that can either alternate lightning chaser to stop Pole from debuffing, or a class capable of canceling spells with certain skills).

    How would you handle the mass amounts of poison as those are all wood mobs in FB69 Wraith Gate?btw Venos have genies as well.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • ViAudi - Archosaur
    ViAudi - Archosaur Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Hmn.. from reading all the negative stuff about being a cleric and not being needed.. Hmn..

    b:chuckle

    Clerics F.T.W.

    b:victory

    Hey can you super buff me or rez 10 and by the way my friend needs super buffs.. and his friend needs a rez.. ah by the way our squad is full you can leave now..

    b:laugh

    Hmn..Not even a thank-you and they finish the quest at hand without a cleric..hmn..
    Go figure!

    b:bye
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]