Archer VS BM

Telarith - Sanctuary · March 2010

Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »

The same also applies to claws, though.

And no other weapon is capable of reaching or surpassing 5 atk/s, so whether the animation cap is 5 atk/s or not does not matter, you're not going to reach it anyway.

Well, 2 easy things.

I kinda stated fist/claws in the post you even quoted, they have the same interval. It really shouldn't need to be pointed out every time they are mentioned, and fist is the generic term. (Hence why even though we use Deicide claws to reach 5 APS, we still are called fist masters)

And daggers can reach 5 APS as well. Rank armor, and their -.1 interval add from Nirvana upgrade. That is one of the main points of contention, on whether daggers can achieve 5 APS or not.

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

5 APS is the known animation limitation that makes it the max for FIST's actual attack. Character screen can show more, but they still only attack 5 per second.

Also, everyone seems to have taken that and run with it, assuming everything has a max of 5 APS, even though all the other weapons have different animation sequences. Only fist/claws have a confirmation from sources who use them that they max at 5, no one knows for the other weapons.

Quilue - Sanctuary · March 2010

Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »

I am pretty sure that blazing arrow, frostblade and elemental damage apothecaries give you a bonus based on your total equipment damage from all of your physical damage sources, including your rings and weapon garnets.

However, if you do not trust my test results and want to test this yourself, I can give you some hints:

First off, winged shell can make testing nice and comfortable for you.

Second, for tests like this, you should be using your bare hands and melee monsters, and green named monsters can be very obliging sometimes.

Third, you should test with and without your rings, and you should test with and without your blazing arrow, and all of this should be on identical monsters. Even better would be to keep your monster alive by resetting instead of killing it, so that you know that you have not stumbled on some kind of monster variant.

Also, you should be writing down your damage numbers, along with your test conditions, for each test.

Another approach for understanding what concept our infamous translators were trying to find words for when they came up with the phrase "weapon damage" involves using spark and examining your physical attack when you hit C. You can do this before and after you shard your weapon.

blazing arrow and frost blade do not work with bare hands

Telarith - Sanctuary · March 2010

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

blazing arrow and frost blade do not work with bare hands

Eh, they had a bunch of inaccuracties:

Not an archer, how would I use shell.

Drake's Breath Bash doesn't add damage when barehanded, have to swap to weapon to get effect. Glitch a while ago allowed to keep it when weapon was again removed. Has been since patched, and I posted the test a while ago on BM forums. Much like all the other BM maths, which is why it's been quiet past few months.

Phys Attk and Phys Damage have differing meanings, sometimes just for one skill. Tyrseus is a prime example.

What does spark have to do with pots and effects that do not show up on C screen. Everyone already knows spark shows on it, so why did they bring that up at all?

Was gonna leave it, but no sense not joining the party

EDIT: If they really want to do a test, they should be using lvl 1 fists with little damage variation, and swap rings on and off.

LegendofLove - Lost City · March 2010

< saw a lvl8x archer used HH80 gold fists in pvp n killed lvl92 barbb:chuckle
pretty epic but its true

Legendadry - Harshlands · March 2010

i can tell many of you dont play a BM or even fight that many.

as an archer your range is the greatest weapon you have. In a 1v1 an archer almost always should be able to take out a BM in air and on ground. Occult ice is only 10 meters archers have a max range of 30 meters.

It really comes down to who is most prepared for survival and who is not.

Archer's hit any class hard as far as i'm conercned, your bow should always be highly refined and always carry the highest grade arrows you can w/ attack charms. Fist BM's should be the easist for you all to kill... they have to get close to you in order to kill you.

Holy Path,absolute domain,Wings of Grace, etc will save you from any stun or freeze you might encounter.

However BM's who are prepared w/ anti movment pots and correctly use their skills will give you alot of trouble. As an archer your best bet would be to catch them first at max range or fight them in the air.

Joshcja - Sanctuary · March 2010

Legendadry - Harshlands wrote: »

i can tell many of you dont play a BM or even fight that many.

as an archer your range is the greatest weapon you have. In a 1v1 an archer almost always should be able to take out a BM in air and on ground. Occult ice is only 10 meters archers have a max range of 30 meters.

It really comes down to who is most prepared for survival and who is not.

Archer's hit any class hard as far as i'm conercned, your bow should always be highly refined and always carry the highest grade arrows you can w/ attack charms. Fist BM's should be the easist for you all to kill... they have to get close to you in order to kill you.

Holy Path,absolute domain,Wings of Grace, etc will save you from any stun or freeze you might encounter.

However BM's who are prepared w/ anti movment pots and correctly use their skills will give you alot of trouble. As an archer your best bet would be to catch them first at max range or fight them in the air.

true....emptyness

sheiol · March 2010

Chezedude - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I've encountered skeptics on DW just like you when I first used fists. I've heard well equip barb or bm tell me they would "quit the game" (exaggeration of course) if I beat them with fists. I've 1v1ed in pk with BM with full +10 gear, nirvana, and same refined fists, his lvl 100 sin which also uses the same gear, lvl 10x archers with gears just as good as mine, and I can tell you that I win more than my fair share. In fact, I would not hesitate to bet money with anyone in DW in best 3 out of 5 fight.

I only use it when I know my opponent cannot get away.

Sadly Chezedude is right
Have seen him fight a BM with exact same gears, interval, LVL, even the BM having bit higher Ref and same skills in pvp in their respective class, using seal/stun from genie and debuff etc, Both SAGE.
But some How archers have a terrible increase in Att Rate ( may be due to dex ).
Other class than BM using Range and fist for archer or HP/Res and fist for Barb are plenty stupid and exploit and should be fixed.

Now you think im wrong, check this out.
A Crazy unkilleable Barb ALL ref 10, from Weapon to Gears fighting a Archer not even using range att to tick him and Fist/spark3 to finish him ( archer has a ref 10 Lunar claw but +4-5 Gears ref max).

I m pretty sure Ginabomb quited the game after that, can't see him anymore, lol i would feel ****.

so yea Archer haven't got Fist damages increase but refinements are enough to bypass this...watch ginabomb HP ...Now try to fight a 20 K hp, ref 10 ALL, pvper skilled barb the same way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pbj90j0uz8&NR=1

Now a barb Using fists ...no comments .

http://www.youtube.com/user/LaniatusDeus

Plz give back to each Class their purpose and make Fists / Claws BM only b:surrender

Quilue - Sanctuary · March 2010

what was that barb doing being a punching bag? there are some heavily cash shopped barbs on my server. i'd really like to see her walk up to them with claws.

TerminatorX - Lost City · March 2010

sheiol wrote: »

Plz give back to each Class their purpose and make Fists / Claws BM only b:surrender

Grrrr....

If they did that, I'd have to reroll my Archer. I'd be pissed.

Devoted - Lost City · March 2010

TerminatorX - Lost City wrote: »

Grrrr....

If they did that, I'd have to reroll my Archer. I'd be pissed.

There were rumors surfacing on the cn version that claws/fist will be blademaster specific, just like xbows/daggers etc..

Chezedude - Dreamweaver · March 2010

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

There were rumors surfacing on the cn version that claws/fist will be blademaster specific, just like xbows/daggers etc..

RUMORS lol. i've been on the PW cn website to check many times and theres nothing about it. And still I keep getting QQers coming to me every week before maint going hey are you gonna quit when they make fists bm onlyl?

There is no way in hell that would happen unless they want half the melee population on the CN server to spam them with tickets as thats how many non bms use fists/claws.

sheiol · March 2010

Chezedude - Dreamweaver wrote: »

RUMORS lol. i've been on the PW cn website to check many times and theres nothing about it. And still I keep getting QQers coming to me every week before maint going hey are you gonna quit when they make fists bm onlyl?

There is no way in hell that would happen unless they want half the melee population on the CN server to spam them with tickets as thats how many non bms use fists/claws.

Yea... lets all make Archers get max interval, go fists or claws and let all other class get pissed soon and leave because scripter wouldn't fix exploits....just remind me my old game i quit to come on pw, so far pretty balanced until human brain as always find exploits b:laugh

I have full trust into PW scripters and hope PW will last long ...balanced b:victory

Peace

TerminatorX - Lost City · March 2010

Lol. You haven't played many MMOs if you think PWI's anywhere near unbalanced because of fists. They actually promote balance in the hands of every class (except casters, but they have nukes xD).

I came here from an MMO where one class has the ability to reliably one-hit every. single. other. class. with a skill with a 15. second. cooldown.(which was, lol, supposed to "fix" it) at level 80 out of 121 levels, and a full. stamina. build. plus, this is in the main. pvp. event. level 80s spam slaughtering fully leveled everyone else. oh btw, when their nuke is in cooldown, they have a permanent stunlock move (no cooldown) and 100% block, plus, as before mentioned, a full. sta. build. and for giggles, if their life happens to drop below 10%, they automatically get a new hp bar. they can't die, except to another nuke from the same class. that's broken. and general consensus is that removing that skill altogether would leave another class broken ANYWAY. (no-win situation, crapiness is too far gone, pvp is ****, they wont fix it because now everyone has spent thousands of US Dollars pimping their half-leveled nukes to decimate teams of any. other. class. fully. leveled.)

GEEZ I HATE THAT GAME.

Quilue - Sanctuary · March 2010

how the hell is it an exploit?

maybe you should post on your main if you even have one, because i think you're a noob who is talking out of your **** from what you hear from other noobs thinking dex has something to do with attack speed. Cheze has more attack speed because he has rank 8 chest, something that bm obviously don't have, so they don't have the same -interval, gear, whatever.

TerminatorX - Lost City · March 2010

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

how the hell is it an exploit?

maybe you should post on your main if you even have one, because i think you're a noob who is talking out of your **** from what you hear from other noobs thinking dex has something to do with attack speed. Cheze has more attack speed because he has rank 8 chest, something that bm obviously don't have, so they don't have the same -interval, gear, whatever.

^ What she said.

TigerLily - Lost City · March 2010

sheiol wrote: »

Now you think im wrong, check this out.
A Crazy unkilleable Barb ALL ref 10, from Weapon to Gears fighting a Archer not even using range att to tick him and Fist/spark3 to finish him ( archer has a ref 10 Lunar claw but +4-5 Gears ref max).

I m pretty sure Ginabomb quited the game after that, can't see him anymore, lol i would feel ****.

so yea Archer haven't got Fist damages increase but refinements are enough to bypass this...watch ginabomb HP ...Now try to fight a 20 K hp, ref 10 ALL, pvper skilled barb the same way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pbj90j0uz8&NR=1

Plz give back to each Class their purpose and make Fists / Claws BM only b:surrender

No offense but i highly doubt thats an "unkilleable Barb ALL ref 10"

To me that barbs just looks like some 8X nub that dont know how to pvp. Like wtf is he doing, running around in tiger trying to auto attack the archer while being punch bag >.<

Any good barb would just occult ice -onslaught -Armageddon BOOOM dead.

Also why would fists be BM specific. Not like archers hit harder than Bms with fists, we dont have the 75-90% weapon mastery. Archers can do well with fists if they can get 5 APS and that kinda requires rank8 top and ** load interval gear that costs you a couple of thousands dollas.

Not like your average lvl 99 archer can go put on +10 fists and hit fast and kill stuff in pvp.

Airyll - Dreamweaver · March 2010

If fists and claws are made BM only, I expect your average bows to become archer only like their fellow x-bows and slingshots.

You can kiss goodbye to bowbarbs and I know a few BMs who use bows sometimes for kicks. Oh, you'd also **** off a fair few assassins.

Point : Fists and claws are not going to be made BM only this late into the game when PWE has many cash paying customers paying a lot of cash for their non-BM character to use fists and claws and be good at it.

As a business, they are not that stupid. They are looking to make money from their customers, especially the customers they encouraged with anni packs, and are not about to chase all of these paying customers away by ruining their work and destroying the very reason they put in over $500 in the first place. If they do, these people have less brains than I give them credit for.

sheiol · March 2010

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

No offense but i highly doubt thats an "unkilleable Barb ALL ref 10"

To me that barbs just looks like some 8X nub that dont know how to pvp. Like wtf is he doing, running around in tiger trying to auto attack the archer while being punch bag >.<

Any good barb would just occult ice -onslaught -Armageddon BOOOM dead.

Also why would fists be BM specific. Not like archers hit harder than Bms with fists, we dont have the 75-90% weapon mastery. Archers can do well with fists if they can get 5 APS and that kinda requires rank8 top and ** load interval gear that costs you a couple of thousands dollas.

Not like your average lvl 99 archer can go put on +10 fists and hit fast and kill stuff in pvp.

first of all read the coments and chats on Utube b:kiss..Ginabomb WAS the Super barb Cashshopper way before everyone ..no fun to fight this guy ..even other cashshopper avoiding such Killing machine, may be a sage ice dragon could end his misery on charm tick ...wounded.

Now why an (exploit) ?

1- archers ..range attacker loosing hit power when closer range.

2- Why every archer that will Start using int +10 ref fist with many int gears will QQ im wrong '' plz SHHHTT let us enjoy that overkill thing ''

3-Archers have magic damages added what ever they use to damages You.

4- Now appart a well done wizard and range archer able to one shot you but also diing pretty fast ..... Do you know any class Able to one shot Peoples from far and in 3 sec fight explose you from melee range ?..Yes ..Archers using Fist and bow.

QQ

Every class ref +10 become Very dangerous in skilled hands but can find a way out during 8 sec fight / tick charm / 10 sec fights etc.
Hp barbs / wiz nukers / archers one shot runners / cleric sleep-seal-spark ..etc etc.

No class can kill you that fast before u have time to do ANYTHING ..

That archer on the Youtube video Explosing this Super barb is NOT EVEN ALL +10 REF b:chuckle

Also to be taken seriously not pointing at my name and main char lvl ( high enough to have rolled all class ) i decide to go ''unknown''

But at the end trust me !! if Nothing is done, I WILL exploit that **** ...no choice to survive in PvP facing them .

main char archer ..replaced by a Sin . . .

But i know How this will End to have Been DM on my old Game .

Peace

Chezedude - Dreamweaver · March 2010

sheiol wrote: »

first of all read the coments and chats on Utube b:kiss..Ginabomb WAS the Super barb Cashshopper way before everyone ..no fun to fight this guy ..even other cashshopper avoiding such Killing machine, may be a sage ice dragon could end his misery on charm tick ...wounded.

Now why an (exploit) ?

1- archers ..range attacker loosing hit power when closer range.

2- Why every archer that will Start using int +10 ref fist with many int gears will QQ im wrong '' plz SHHHTT let us enjoy that overkill thing ''

3-Archers have magic damages added what ever they use to damages You.

4- Now appart a well done wizard and range archer able to one shot you but also diing pretty fast ..... Do you know any class Able to one shot Peoples from far and in 3 sec fight explose you from melee range ?..Yes ..Archers using Fist and bow.

QQ

Every class ref +10 become Very dangerous in skilled hands but can find a way out during 8 sec fight / tick charm / 10 sec fights etc.
Hp barbs / wiz nukers / archers one shot runners / cleric sleep-seal-spark ..etc etc.

No class can kill you that fast before u have time to do ANYTHING ..

That archer on the Youtube video Explosing this Super barb is NOT EVEN ALL +10 REF b:chuckle

Also to be taken seriously not pointing at my name and main char lvl ( high enough to have rolled all class ) i decide to go ''unknown''

But at the end trust me !! if Nothing is done, I WILL exploit that **** ...no choice to survive in PvP facing them .

main char archer ..replaced by a Sin . . .

But i know How this will End to have Been DM on my old Game .

Peace

QQ archers can almost do as much damage as a bm using their weapon. what an exploit because obviously only BMs should be allowed to have super OP damage as well as stunlocks.

NO

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver · March 2010

Yeah fists with -int are so OP, so many other classes are using it instead of their "designated" weapons. Barbs and Archers have already jumped on the bandwagon and even Mages are starting too. http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr225/IICheeto/2010-03-1522-35-00-1.jpg

Quilue - Sanctuary · March 2010

sheiol wrote: »

first of all read the coments and chats on Utube b:kiss..Ginabomb WAS the Super barb Cashshopper way before everyone ..no fun to fight this guy ..even other cashshopper avoiding such Killing machine, may be a sage ice dragon could end his misery on charm tick ...wounded.

Now why an (exploit) ?

1- archers ..range attacker loosing hit power when closer range.

2- Why every archer that will Start using int +10 ref fist with many int gears will QQ im wrong '' plz SHHHTT let us enjoy that overkill thing ''

3-Archers have magic damages added what ever they use to damages You.

4- Now appart a well done wizard and range archer able to one shot you but also diing pretty fast ..... Do you know any class Able to one shot Peoples from far and in 3 sec fight explose you from melee range ?..Yes ..Archers using Fist and bow.

QQ

Every class ref +10 become Very dangerous in skilled hands but can find a way out during 8 sec fight / tick charm / 10 sec fights etc.
Hp barbs / wiz nukers / archers one shot runners / cleric sleep-seal-spark ..etc etc.

No class can kill you that fast before u have time to do ANYTHING ..

That archer on the Youtube video Explosing this Super barb is NOT EVEN ALL +10 REF b:chuckle

Also to be taken seriously not pointing at my name and main char lvl ( high enough to have rolled all class ) i decide to go ''unknown''

But at the end trust me !! if Nothing is done, I WILL exploit that **** ...no choice to survive in PvP facing them .

main char archer ..replaced by a Sin . . .

But i know How this will End to have Been DM on my old Game .

Peace

i don't care how much that barb has spent, you can't really call that trying. no genie skills, no apocs, letting that archer claw at him so she can gather sparks. that was disgraceful, he was handing his head to her on a platter.

1. when does any other ranged class lose attack power at melee range? do you QQ when a wizard nukes you without melee penalty?
2. because after getting some 400m+ worth of gear it's OP? why don't you spend that much on a wiz and just 1 shot the archer?
3. no ****, so do barbs and bms. and have we forgotten about bramble rage?
4. you're a freaking moron thinking endgame archers can 1 shot anybody their level

sheiol · March 2010

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

i don't care how much that barb has spent, you can't really call that trying. no genie skills, no apocs, letting that archer claw at him so she can gather sparks. that was disgraceful, he was handing his head to her on a platter.

1. when does any other ranged class lose attack power at melee range? do you QQ when a wizard nukes you without melee penalty?
2. because after getting some 400m+ worth of gear it's OP? why don't you spend that much on a wiz and just 1 shot the archer?
3. no ****, so do barbs and bms. and have we forgotten about bramble rage?
4. you're a freaking moron thinking endgame archers can 1 shot anybody their level

Guess you Need to lvl more or learn playing ur class b:chuckle

1- PK rule 1, Learn to survive a ice dragon or else nuke skill, stun/kill fast/avoid wiz fully chi sparked/if can't remember next fight he got no sparks left.

2- Why every archer that will Start using int +10 ref fist with many int gears will QQ im wrong '' plz SHHHTT let us enjoy that overkill thing ''
b:laugh
No comments.

3- all class skill, i can survive this again, if not ? well, use ur archer skills for a change.

4-Guess u never faught Cheze or Quizenbort etc Aka Skilled archers with insane Gears or simply again never learned how to make a good archer.

ANYWAY ...realized how even more Overpowered than Archers a Sin can be using Fists ...Remember that in few Weeks or Month when posting ur QQing on Forum about OP Sin with Fist b:laugh

Peace ..i go back to my Sin-Fist Charb:bye

Archer VS BM

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