Archer VS BM

ShootJooDead - Lost City

Hey im deciding between Archer or BM

b:pleased I love palying bm their much more fun then playing my archer but archer has high damage

PLEASE POST REASON WHY THE OPPOSING CLASS IS BETTERb:bye

Devoted - Lost City

ShootJooDead - Lost City wrote: »

Hey im deciding between Archer or BM

b:pleased I love palying bm their much more fun then playing my archer but archer has high damage

PLEASE POST REASON WHY THE OPPOSING CLASS IS BETTERb:bye

If you have more fun playing a bm you should play a bm.

_makina_ - Sanctuary

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

If you have more fun playing a bm you should play a bm.

What Devoted said.

TigerLily - Lost City

BMs have more hp, more phy def, more mag def, access to True Emptiness, billions of stuns, higher DPS than archers if they use fists.

I would stay with the BM and specially if you enjoy playing it. Only reason to play archer instead is if you prefer playing a ranged class and like to spend irl money on a video game.

Sako - Dreamweaver

TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »

BMs have more hp, more phy def, more mag def, access to True Emptiness, billions of stuns, higher DPS than archers if they use fists.

I would stay with the BM and specially if you enjoy playing it. Only reason to play archer instead is if you prefer playing a ranged class and like to spend irl money on a video game.

Huh? b:shocked

Asperitas - Lost City

Sako - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Huh? b:shocked

Magic marrow and interval gear I'm assuming.

Olba - Sanctuary

Sako - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Huh? b:shocked

Demon BM with high enough -interval does that.

Telarith - Sanctuary

Yep, end game BM can easily have 10K+ in all defenses running continuously, thanks to magic marrow. That is most likely what Tigerlily is talking about.

Shadowvzs - Lost City

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

Magic marrow and interval gear I'm assuming.

the tt99 set give interval anyway and they got for fist skill too (+15%[sage] or 20%[demon] attack speed & with 15sec cooldown and 15sec duration [ok sage is 20sec])

they really good agro stealers too with axe ulti combined fast attack speed

but another side more boss have close range aoe and u allways get it and u have higher repair than archer.

i think both class is nice and really what u like better will be a good choose (ok both a bit ahrder in begning but mainly archer harder in begning later both nice so dont give up if u choosed in 1st 20-30lv)

Moranine - Lost City

Fist BM > Archer in everyway except PvP. The range is PvP comes in handy if the BM is a horrible chain stunner.

Archers are worthless if we get perma stunned. Nothing we can do but sit and watch us die.

HeavensWing - Sanctuary

Ive played both and got them to 70, Obviously you can see I like a BM better because I Kept leveling him. I just liked the BM better for some reason. And I know 70 isnt much but oh well.

Quilue - Sanctuary

bm is more fun to play because there's just more things to do during fights.

you have 4 weapons and 4 weapon paths to play around with

archers use mostly normal attacks, well they can spell spam but it's not as effective or as fun as bms jumping around doing their moves.

Tomiko - Heavens Tear

Moranine - Lost City wrote: »

Fist BM > Archer in everyway except PvP. The range is PvP comes in handy if the BM is a horrible chain stunner.

Archers are worthless if we get perma stunned. Nothing we can do but sit and watch us die.

I can tell you haven't done much 3-2 or 3-3. Close range melee get slept a lot. Haven't done warsong either. Lol, and just how exactly is fist bm that much better when archer can achieve 5 atks/rd as well even as a sage. Haven't done much pvp either if you are getting permanently stunned, ruffle.

Devoted - Lost City

Tomiko - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I can tell you haven't done much 3-2 or 3-3. Close range melee get slept a lot. Haven't done warsong either. Lol, and just how exactly is fist bm that much better when archer can achieve 5 atks/rd as well even as a sage. Haven't done much pvp either if you are getting permanently stunned, ruffle.

Fist bm's replace werebeasts for tanking. You won't steal agro from something that can triple spark every 15 seconds. Obviously the sleep bosses an archer is better but that is pve.

A fist bm > a fist archer for completely obvious reasons:

- Fist mastery.. durr that's a minimum 75% increase to weapon damage.
- BM's don't have min strength for fists. Good BM's will have a minimum of 272 strength but most have 300+ and I'll have 350+ with my build. Any archer with more than 117 strength makes me laugh.
- For pvp (I have no idea how an archer uses fist for pvp other than lulz) you aren't gonna kill anything besides Anders. Fists are great when you can keep the person at melee range. Good luck with that as an archer..

A good bm beats an archer in almost every aspect of the game.

edit: btw the only way to get out of my stunlock is to absolute domain or badge of courage, cheers ^^

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

edit: btw the only way to get out of my stunlock is to absolute domain or badge of courage, cheers ^^

Or half of the time that Aeolian doesn't proc. b:chuckle

Tomiko - Heavens Tear

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

Fist bm's replace werebeasts for tanking. Fist bm doesn't do too well on random agro boss. It's doable but prefer a barb. You won't steal agro from something that can triple spark every 15 seconds. An archer can spark every 15 seconds.
Obviously the sleep bosses an archer is better but that is pve.

A fist bm > a fist archer for completely obvious reasons:

- Fist mastery.. durr that's a minimum 75% increase to weapon damage. Archers have blazing arrow, and we have already covered weapon masteries. Is bm better? I think so. By alot? Seriously doubt it.
- BM's don't have min strength for fists. Good BM's will have a minimum of 272 strength but most have 300+ and I'll have 350+ with my build. Any archer with more than 117 strength makes me laugh. Well, it doesn't really matter what your opinion is, facts are archer can stat or gear or do the same thing. It's nothing but fist and spark and interval.
- For pvp (I have no idea how an archer uses fist for pvp other than lulz) you aren't gonna kill anything besides Anders. Fists are great when you can keep the person at melee range. Good luck with that as an archer.. Who said anything about an archer using fist in pvp?

A good bm beats an archer in almost every aspect of the game. I disagree. How many BM's do you see at the top of pk charts? Enough said.

edit: btw the only way to get out of my stunlock is to absolute domain or badge of courage, cheers ^^. I seriously think you have bumped your head dude.

10characters

Devoted - Lost City

Divine_Death - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Or half of the time that Aeolian doesn't proc. b:chuckle

i don't use aeolian blade if i 100% have to keep the person stunlocked..


i bumped my head? lol, i know blademasters blow on lost city, I couldn't even imagine the kind you face on heaven's tear tomiko. you really haven't been shown how op a bm really is.

Nasume - Lost City

why fist wr > ea
lets say both have 5/sec attack rate
archer cant just normal attack wr(half dmg as they come closer + phys dmg wont do much) they'll have to use their metal attack skills and those'll take times 1-2 secs per skill(interval doesnt apply on skills) meanwhile the wr comes close to you and stun hitting 5 times a sec.

Quilue - Sanctuary

^

they mean archers wielding fists...

as if you can ever reach 5/s with bow lol

Asperitas - Lost City

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=395c7d4e9fa6445d
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=164a9969c65d3dba

Without sparks, a BM's damage is almost double that of the archer. With spark, the difference is less drastic, but there's still like a 3k damage difference. That's pretty noticable if you ask me.

The build I put on the archer could be wrong as I'm not very knowledgable about them.

And another thing. It's true you could stat an archer the same way as a BM, but what's the point? You'd be missing out on masteries and pretty much any beneficial melee skill. Might as well roll a BM.

Brigid - Harshlands

Since when have PvP rankings reflected anything except how many lower level players you've ganked? Archers are naturally better for ganking weaker players, since we've got more range. PK charts really don't mean anything.

Tomiko - Heavens Tear

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

And another thing. It's true you could stat an archer the same way as a BM, but what's the point? You'd be missing out on masteries and pretty much any beneficial melee skill. Might as well roll a BM.

I ask myself that every time I inspect some archers on HT server.

Edit: could be because they can restat or regear. They like having the ranged skills at their disposable rather than the melee skills of a warrior. /shrug.

Tomiko - Heavens Tear

Brigid - Harshlands wrote: »

Since when have PvP rankings reflected anything except how many lower level players you've ganked? Archers are naturally better for ganking weaker players, since we've got more range. PK charts really don't mean anything.

Key word there. This game is dominated by range. Character movement is slow, ranged magic dominates, and a well geared archer isn't too shabby either. A BM will never have the ranged skills or ranged effectiveness of an archer. So saying a bm is better in almost everything seems rather noobish thing to say, when that "almost everything" is range, lol.

Devoted - Lost City

Tomiko - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Key word there. This game is dominated by range. Character movement is slow, ranged magic dominates, and a well geared archer isn't too shabby either. A BM will never have the ranged skills or ranged effectiveness of an archer. So saying a bm is better in almost everything seems rather noobish thing to say, when that "almost everything" is range, lol.

I can have you stunned from 30 meters away before you finish casting wings of grace

Tomiko - Heavens Tear

How's that?

Chezedude - Dreamweaver

Devoted - Lost City wrote: »

- For pvp (I have no idea how an archer uses fist for pvp other than lulz) you aren't gonna kill anything besides Anders. Fists are great when you can keep the person at melee range. Good luck with that as an archer..

Then you must not have seen any archer pk with fists, and that's why you "have no idea how an archer uses fist for pvp other than lulz".

I don't see how it's hard for an archer to keep people at melee range when half the people sees an archer and say hey im gonna get in melee range so he does half damage. not only does having fists obliterate archers' weakness in melee range, but it actually makes people scared of being in melee range.

Now for those that tend to stay away from melee range, I believe archers have two stun/freeze skills and two genie skills that stun/freeze. There's some serious problem if you can't manage to keep someone from moving for 5-10 seconds.

Sako - Dreamweaver

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=395c7d4e9fa6445d
http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=164a9969c65d3dba

Without sparks, a BM's damage is almost double that of the archer. With spark, the difference is less drastic, but there's still like a 3k damage difference. That's pretty noticable if you ask me.

The build I put on the archer could be wrong as I'm not very knowledgable about them.

And another thing. It's true you could stat an archer the same way as a BM, but what's the point? You'd be missing out on masteries and pretty much any beneficial melee skill. Might as well roll a BM.

Wouldn't the archer's 5.0 attack rate (1.5x more than the BM's) and extra 10% crit make up for the 3k less in damage?



And I'm guessing Devoted hasn't seen Chezedude wrecking with fists in TW o.o

Devoted - Lost City

Chezedude - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Then you must not have seen any archer pk with fists, and that's why you "have no idea how an archer uses fist for pvp other than lulz".

I don't see how it's hard for an archer to keep people at melee range when half the people sees an archer and say hey im gonna get in melee range so he does half damage. not only does having fists obliterate archers' weakness in melee range, but it actually makes people scared of being in melee range.

Now for those that tend to stay away from melee range, I believe archers have two stun/freeze skills and two genie skills that stun/freeze. There's some serious problem if you can't manage to keep someone from moving for 5-10 seconds.

Only class that is ranged that moves to an archers melee range is mage and they don't do it every time. A similarly geared mage will get you to 50% and either bypass your charm or sutra kill you.

Just because you have 2 8 second paralyzes doesn't mean you can hold someone in place. A wizard will simply blink, a cleric will sleep you or use plume barrier, a sage veno will summer sprint to remove paralyze or stun lock you with their pet. Not to mention each class can spark or immune pot or use genie skills. A paralyze is nothing compared to a stun. You also do much lower damage compared to a bm with the same refines. You also have very few skills enabling you to quickly get in melee range, couple that with lower hp/defenses due to light armor and a good range class will kill you before you reach them.

Obviously you think a fist archer is feasible because you are a massive cash shopper. For people who realize these are just pixels it isn't close to a good way to pvp.

Sako - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wouldn't the archer's 5.0 attack rate (1.5x more than the BM's) and extra 10% crit make up for the 3k less in damage?



And I'm guessing Devoted hasn't seen Chezedude wrecking with fists in TW o.o

Is it the fist archer that's wrecking or his refines? Give everyone the same playing field and all of a sudden this fist archer is nothing but a 2 shot fly buzzing around.

Quilue - Sanctuary

occult ice seems to work well, but who would you realistically use fists on?

for caster classes, might as well use that bow of yours

for melee classes, fists would suck

i've watched heavy vs heavy with fists, and even then the fight is not quick. i think you'd win only because of sheer gear difference.

i'm really curious how hard you hit on heavy armor with fists, as well as how hard they hit on you. freeze isn't really a legit way to take down a bm with fists as they can hit and cast back

regarding barbs...i dont care how much hp you have, you can still get one shot by a good barb.

the only option i see is against other archers and maybe sins, because light armor sucks balls.

Devoted - Lost City

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

occult ice seems to work well, but who would you realistically use fists on?

for caster classes, might as well use that bow of yours

for melee classes, fists would suck

i've watched heavy vs heavy with fists, and even then the fight is not quick. i think you'd win only because of sheer gear difference.

i'm really curious how hard you hit on heavy armor with fists, as well as how hard they hit on you. freeze isn't really a legit way to take down a bm with fists as they can hit and cast back

regarding barbs...i dont care how much hp you have, you can still get one shot by a good barb.

the only option i see is against other archers and maybe sins, because light armor sucks balls.

An archer has no effective way to get in melee range quickly. Only on the ground with holy path is really feasible but then again you just wasted genie energy and won't be able to hold them in place as long as before.

Time taken to get in 2.5meter range < Just attacking from 30meters.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Sako - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Wouldn't the archer's 5.0 attack rate (1.5x more than the BM's) and extra 10% crit make up for the 3k less in damage?



And I'm guessing Devoted hasn't seen Chezedude wrecking with fists in TW o.o

shouldn't you let the bms wreck with fists while the archers kill people from range? you know, since the ability to pick off targets at range is such a valuable asset in TW? i'm sure Cheze wrecks very hard with his 8JUN bow too but that's just me.