Assassins: Please stop using a bow to DD

losstarot
losstarot Posts: 0 Arc User
edited March 2010 in General Discussion
Dagger 69 mold: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=14486d5e3ba2a408 - 2396patk * 1.20crit * 1.25aspd = 3594 DPS

TT70 Bow: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=27bdcb5200985cc2 3682patk * 1.18crit * 0.67aspd = 2910.9892 DPS

This is not factoring in dagger mastery, the fact that you can use skills (especially chi building skills which will allow for more sparks, or Chill of the Deep which increases attack level but requires skill spammer to be fully effective), and further increases from attack buffs (Strength of the Titans, since it's percent based).

Your DPH with a bow is not even much better, since you can to use dagger skills to make up the damage difference easily.

Yes, a bow does have uses on a Sin, such as prevent damage incremental AoE (although it's useless on regular AoE , since most hit farther than 20 meters and does the same damage regardless of distance), exploding mobs, and getting enemy aggression early; however, damage dealing is not one of them and makes to looks pretty foolish.

Also, this may be better in the Assassin forums, but it'd be nice to get varied opinions and discussion.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Astoru - Heavens Tear
    Astoru - Heavens Tear Posts: 822 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I don't mind when an assassin uses a bow to DD on AoE bosses. I do mind when they do it with chill of deep.
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    There have been numerous complaints of Assassins stealing aggro.

    If the Assassin is using a bow to tone down damage, so as to not steal aggro, this is perfectly acceptable.
  • Maiya - Lost City
    Maiya - Lost City Posts: 2,686 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    What Elena said. Also, sometimes clerics AoE heal far from the tank. So on some bosses that AoE like in FB/BH69, you may be taking damage, and not receiving any heals (as they are directed at the tank and AoE heal towards the ranged members).
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  • losstarot
    losstarot Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    There have been numerous complaints of Assassins stealing aggro.

    If the Assassin is using a bow to tone down damage, so as to not steal aggro, this is perfectly acceptable.

    A DD needs to learn how to control aggro without gimping damage.

    Also, most of the times, a Sin is using a bow on mobs and non-AoE bosses.
  • Maiya - Lost City
    Maiya - Lost City Posts: 2,686 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I have yet to see a sin use a bow on non AoE bosses. >_>
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  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    losstarot wrote: »
    Also, most of the times, a Sin is using a bow on mobs and non-AoE bosses.

    Lol? What kind of fail Sins are you running with?
  • Tapion_ - Dreamweaver
    Tapion_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 388 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    There is nothing wrong with using a bow in addition to daggers. I find it very useful and will continue to use them no matter what anyone says.
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    losstarot wrote: »
    A DD needs to learn how to control aggro without gimping damage.

    I don't know the assassin class. How would an assassin go about doing this?
  • XXKimikoXx - Heavens Tear
    XXKimikoXx - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,569 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I use a bow during BH 51 for Rankar and Wyvern so im not sitting out while everyone else kills. Other then that I suck it up and use my daggers and if I die I die. But if there is more then one cleric and the other cleric can heal me I will use my daggers on the bosses.
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  • Heartstone - Dreamweaver
    Heartstone - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,338 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    losstarot wrote: »
    A DD needs to learn how to control aggro without gimping damage.

    can say so. but waiting 200k hp. auto atatck still get aggro get annoyings, could hit 15 sec stop 5 sec and keep doing.. but that get annoying., way easyer get soemthign doing less dmg. I have my 85 npc dagger for barbs who cant keep aggro/ bm's.
    I'm sorry for misspelling / mistyping and grammar b:surrender

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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Heartstone - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    can say so. but waiting 200k hp. auto atatck still get aggro get annoyings, could hit 15 sec stop 5 sec and keep doing.. but that get annoying., way easyer get soemthign doing less dmg. I have my 85 npc dagger for barbs who cant keep aggro/ bm's.

    Stopping every so often is "gimping damage", and losstarot specifically stated that "A DD needs to learn how to control aggro without gimping damage."

    After 97 levels of archery, I myself do not know how to control aggro without lowering my damage output. If there is some sort of method of lowering my aggro while still dealing 100% of my damage, I'd like to know about it. The only thing I can think of is some sort of apothecary item that lowers my aggro.
  • Tapion_ - Dreamweaver
    Tapion_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 388 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Lower aggro without gimping damage? Try the Hybrid Assassin build(7 dex, 2 str 1 vit) because that's the only difference between me and the other assassins i see every day that seem to aggro too much, and I rarely steal aggro.
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  • Santacruz - Heavens Tear
    Santacruz - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,776 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    assasins are agro stealers through and through, there high crit and fast attack rate is really a deadly combo, i lost agro to one once before =\

    only way they can control DD is to nerf there dmg output
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Tapion_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Lower aggro without gimping damage? Try the Hybrid Assassin build(7 dex, 2 str 1 vit) because that's the only difference between me and the other assassins i see every day that seem to aggro too much, and I rarely steal aggro.

    That's gimping damage. You are losing the damage that would come from 1 dex per level.

    I'm still waiting for losstarot to answer my question. (S)he seemed to have something in mind.
  • Tapion_ - Dreamweaver
    Tapion_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 388 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    But a friend of mine is a pure dex assassin my level only does 100 more damage than me o.o how am I gimping damage?
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  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Tapion_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    But a friend of mine is a pure dex assassin my level only does 100 more damage than me o.o how am I gimping damage?

    ...less crits?

    b:question
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  • losstarot
    losstarot Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    I was just referring to waiting a small bit for the tank to build aggro and then unleashing (even if its most technically still gimping) and knowing what to do if you take aggro.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Sorry, not 1 dex per level, but 1 dex per 2 levels.

    I am unsure how he only has 100 more damage than you, given that he has 30+ over you. Could you post your build and your friend's build at http://pwcalc.ru/pwi ? The answer can be found through that.

    EDIT EDIT
    losstarot wrote: »
    I was just referring to waiting a small bit for the tank to build aggro and then unleashing (even if its most technically still gimping) and knowing what to do if you take aggro.

    1) As you said, when you wait, you are still gimping damage.

    2) When you steal aggro, you stop attacking. This is also gimping damage, even if it is momentarily.

    From what I can tell of your statements, you are unable to deal 100% of your damage, thus you are gimping your damage. Did I miss something?
  • Tapion_ - Dreamweaver
    Tapion_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 388 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ...less crits?

    b:question



    That might be it, I don't know. All I know is my damage has suffered a very miniscule amount from the 1 dex I lose every 2 levels, and my aggro is poor.
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  • XXKimikoXx - Heavens Tear
    XXKimikoXx - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,569 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    losstarot wrote: »
    I was just referring to waiting a small bit for the tank to build aggro and then unleashing (even if its most technically still gimping) and knowing what to do if you take aggro.

    Would knowing what to do include running away from the squad then when you get the chance going invisible or running around away from the squad till tank gains aggro?
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  • FanFon - Dreamweaver
    FanFon - Dreamweaver Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    losstarot wrote: »
    I was just referring to waiting a small bit for the tank to build aggro and then unleashing (even if its most technically still gimping) and knowing what to do if you take aggro.

    I've tried that and i still aggroed the boss.(note: I was using only normal melee attacks) S0. using bows isn't totally unreasonable as long as we use your attack speed debuff(rib strike) in my opinion anyways
  • XXKimikoXx - Heavens Tear
    XXKimikoXx - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,569 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    If your using a bow just to avoid having to pay for repairs and mp pots then your just lazy and thats when it does not become ok.....atleast IMO.
    Thanks for the siggy Dorset
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  • losstarot
    losstarot Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Depending on the boss and class, the tactic of what you should do always differs.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    XXKimikoXx - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    If your using a bow just to avoid having to pay for repairs and mp pots then your just lazy and thats when it does not become ok.....atleast IMO.

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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    You prefer to deal as much damage as possible, and survive the inevitable aggro-steal. That's fine; most high level DDs do that.

    Some others prefer to deal less damage so as to prevent aggro-steal in the first place. That's fine; this method has the least amount of risk. Non-DD classes most likely prefer this method. An assassin using a bow falls under this category.

    I don't understand why you are complaining about other people's play methods that do not greatly affect the outcome of a battle. Does an assassin that use a bow cause party wipes or something?
  • Cryin - Heavens Tear
    Cryin - Heavens Tear Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Sigh, so much QQ going on around Tides...

    ON TOPIC:

    Why the hell you want them nerfed ?? A GOOD assassin can control the damage output, only by using a Chill of the Deep... Yea believe it or not it works... He hit at same rate as a Axe BM.

    Whats wrong about using bow ?? No seriously, wth?? Assassins are squishy by nature, if a stupid boss has so crazy aoe they can prevent their death by doing it...

    "To much crit", sigh, this is a joke right ?? Assassins use ALOT of dex, that means ALOT of crit... so you want them to get Assassins on Heavy Armor then ??

    .....


    P.S: PLEASE GOD HELP US AGAINST THE ALL MIGHTY ARMY OF QQ'ERS... b:laugh
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  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    There have been numerous complaints of Assassins stealing aggro.

    If the Assassin is using a bow to tone down damage, so as to not steal aggro, this is perfectly acceptable.
    QFT, stupid thread is stupid
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  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    me agree ._.'
    stupid thread be stupid.
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  • Tapion_ - Dreamweaver
    Tapion_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 388 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Cryin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Sigh, so much QQ going on around Tides...

    ON TOPIC:

    Why the hell you want them nerfed ?? A GOOD assassin can control the damage output, only by using a Chill of the Deep... Yea believe it or not it works... He hit at same rate as a Axe BM.

    Whats wrong about using bow ?? No seriously, wth?? Assassins are squishy by nature, if a stupid boss has so crazy aoe they can prevent their death by doing it...

    "To much crit", sigh, this is a joke right ?? Assassins use ALOT of dex, that means ALOT of crit... so you want them to get Assassins on Heavy Armor then ??

    .....


    P.S: PLEASE GOD HELP US AGAINST THE ALL MIGHTY ARMY OF QQ'ERS... b:laugh
    Amen!

    btw i asked my friend and he said that he does pur dex but has been using the lvl 30 mold daggers ever since he got them, hasn't switch to something better, that might be why.
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited March 2010
    Tapion_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Amen!

    btw i asked my friend and he said that he does pur dex but has been using the lvl 30 mold daggers ever since he got them, hasn't switch to something better, that might be why.

    Ah, okay. One mystery solved.

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