Assassins: Please stop using a bow to DD

Latentkarma - Lost City

losstarot wrote: »

Who? Also, yet another person that does not know what that word means, but I digress...

rofl. I know what the word troll means. I apply it where I feel it fits. So you are yet another person that actually doesn't know what the word actually means but thinks they are smart and attempts to try and tell others how to think. Much like you are doing in this thread. And that my friend makes you a troll.

So you can digress all you want but it does you no good, because the truth of the matter is, you simply fail at what you are trying to do, which is tell everyone how to play their characters because you disagree with how they do it.

You are so smart, I am sure they have 'special' busses just for you to ride on. With really nice bus drivers who take 'special' care of you while you ride to your 'special' school where they teach you 'special education'.

Have a nice day. Cupcake. You've been trolled by a professional.

~Saitada

Saitada - Sanctuary

Latentkarma - Lost City wrote: »

rofl. I know what the word troll means. I apply it where I feel it fits. So you are yet another person that actually doesn't know what the word actually means but thinks they are smart and attempts to try and tell others how to think. Much like you are doing in this thread. And that my friend makes you a troll.

So you can digress all you want but it does you no good, because the truth of the matter is, you simply fail at what you are trying to do, which is tell everyone how to play their characters because you disagree with how they do it.

You are so smart, I am sure they have 'special' busses just for you to ride on. With really nice bus drivers who take 'special' care of you while you ride to your 'special' school where they teach you 'special education'.

Have a nice day. Cupcake. You've been trolled by a professional.

~Saitada

I am Saitada and I endorse this message.

~S

p.s. OP is a moron. Anyone that listens to him/her/it is a moron and goes to the same 'special' school they do. Play the game the way you want to play it, enjoy it the way you want to enjoy it, and **** the little morons that think they can tell you how to have fun.

If they don't like it, tell them to suck themselves. It will be more excitement in 12 seconds than they have had their entire pathetic empty idiotic sheeple lives.

losstarot

Latentkarma - Lost City wrote: »

rofl. I know what the word troll means. I apply it where I feel it fits. So you are yet another person that actually doesn't know what the word actually means but thinks they are smart and attempts to try and tell others how to think. Much like you are doing in this thread. And that my friend makes you a troll.

So you can digress all you want but it does you no good, because the truth of the matter is, you simply fail at what you are trying to do, which is tell everyone how to play their characters because you disagree with how they do it.

You are so smart, I am sure they have 'special' busses just for you to ride on. With really nice bus drivers who take 'special' care of you while you ride to your 'special' school where they teach you 'special education'.

Have a nice day. Cupcake. You've been trolled by a professional.

~Saitada

A troll is simply a person that tries to show the newness/naivety of users, not a person whose sole purpose is to annoy/irritate/anger others.

Also, real mature bringing up a completely unrelated and frivolous scenario that means nothing and is just a petty attack (of course that's probably the entire implication and reason).

Saitada - Sanctuary

losstarot wrote: »

A troll is simply a person that tries to show the newness/naivety of users, not a person whose sole purpose is to annoy/irritate/anger others.

Also, real mature bringing up a completely unrelated and frivolous scenario that means nothing and is just a petty attack (of course that's probably the entire implication and reason).

Wrong dumbass, you obviously have no clue what a troll is. Seriously, before you even attempt to try and tell ME what a troll is, I suggest you pull your head out of your **** and simply shut up before I embarrass you so badly you won't be able to raise your head in public for the rest of your life.

Who said anything about maturity? I ENJOY bringing up completely irrelevant subjects in totally irrelevant topics like this. This topic has about the same amount of relevance to anybody as my statements about your 'special' education status.

Don't bother trying to get me started here. I'm **** faced drunk and looking for a fight. Give me one and I'll be happy to oblige you.

~Saitada

p.s. people like you personally make me sick. You don't like how someone else plays so you think you have the right to tell them how to spend their time. You are a pathetic POS sheeple and anything that is unusual or not to your liking is anathema and wrong. When you play my toons, you can play them as you want, till then, stuff your **** in your mouth and stfu with telling others how to play their characters you pathetic pos.

losstarot

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wrong dumbass, you obviously have no clue what a troll is. Seriously, before you even attempt to try and tell ME what a troll is, I suggest you pull your head out of your **** and simply shut up before I embarrass you so badly you won't be able to raise your head in public for the rest of your life.

Who said anything about maturity? I ENJOY bringing up completely irrelevant subjects in totally irrelevant topics like this. This topic has about the same amount of relevance to anybody as my statements about your 'special' education status.

Don't bother trying to get me started here. I'm **** faced drunk and looking for a fight. Give me one and I'll be happy to oblige you.

~Saitada

How adorable~

Saitada - Sanctuary

losstarot wrote: »

How adorable~

Actually, I don't think you need to bother trying to get me into a mood, I'm already in one and you just made yourself my target because you are such an idiot.

Do you really think you have the right to try and tell others how to play their characters? Suggest? Maybe, and that is pushing the envelope in my eyes. Tell? No, not even close. So do yourself a favor and shut up while your behind.

****ing moron.

~S

Duke_Atticus - Sanctuary

I don't see any problems with assassins trying to DD with bows or what nots.

But my insides would probably die if they start slapping all sorts of formula to calculate how they outdamage archers and stuff like that.

Lyritha - Heavens Tear

I use a bow on my assassin for a few reasons... one of them being I'm lazy and it is far more effective if mobs die without touching me... *cough* *cough* less repairs

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And you seem to be ignoring what everybody is telling you.

If a Sin is using a bow they're probably using it to gimp their damage for a bit while still doing something, keeping out an AoE or - like in FC with the harpies - taking down mobs they wouldn't normally reach.

If a Sin is using a bow 24/7/365 then yes, alright, perhaps you have a point. But then again, if you're squadding with a Sin like that, you must be the first person to do so. I've never been in a squad with a Sin who only ever uses a bow.

agree. but however harpyes in fc in no need for bow.
cast your trhow dagger. run. tele back when its at ground, then tackling stash..dead before freeze wear off. way betetr than use bow.

Telarith - Sanctuary

To actually work with the OP, on the assumption he is missing a very easy post to fully explain himself, it could actually be a miscommunication.

The title can actually be applied to mean DD in general, not just special circumstances that he mentioned even in the first post for making use of a bow. He uses numbers to prove daggers deal more damage than bow, which again supports the idea that it is making reference to normal run of the mill DD for dealing the most damage.

So in that frame of mind, the post could actually be legitimate, as he is only talking about the 'sins who constanty use ranged thinking the higher numbers mean faster killing. When they are actually gimping their damage due to APS * damage.

Or the grinders could just be using up free arrow drops for some cheap DD without needing to be attacked back or use MP. So it can really go many ways.

KissMyGills - Dreamweaver

losstarot wrote: »

Dagger 69 mold: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=14486d5e3ba2a408 - 2396patk * 1.20crit * 1.25aspd = 3594 DPS

TT70 Bow: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=27bdcb5200985cc2 3682patk * 1.18crit * 0.67aspd = 2910.9892 DPS

This is not factoring in dagger mastery, the fact that you can use skills (especially chi building skills which will allow for more sparks, or Chill of the Deep which increases attack level but requires skill spammer to be fully effective), and further increases from attack buffs (Strength of the Titans, since it's percent based).

Your DPH with a bow is not even much better, since you can to use dagger skills to make up the damage difference easily.

Yes, a bow does have uses on a Sin, such as prevent damage incremental AoE (although it's useless on regular AoE , since most hit farther than 20 meters and does the same damage regardless of distance), exploding mobs, and getting enemy aggression early; however, damage dealing is not one of them and makes to looks pretty foolish.

Also, this may be better in the Assassin forums, but it'd be nice to get varied opinions and discussion.

Why should i stop using a bow to DD if i feel it makes tanks/clerics job easier at given times?

1: Some aoe boss's can two hit me if i take melee aggro and that does not give cleric time to switch heals to me.

2: Exploding mobs hit me hard so assisting tank from range with bow saves cleric MP.

3: I've squaded with a few clerics who are more then happy to have a sin standing beside them assisting with a bow knowing i can shoot then switch to daggers if a random mob grabs heal aggro.

4: I'll use whatever weapons i feel necessary to get the job done in any given situation and to those who would jump up and down screaming all class's should stick to their rules i say "**** the rules....I have green hair!

ps: i am a sin, not sure why my avitar is not showing.

Edit: My avitar popped up after ps: lol

rikako

In my opinion using a bow at for example Polearm is a wise idea, unless you have a cleric who heals you up (most clerics are trash and only heal the tank and squad heal ffs, fuxxin oracles QQ)

Using a bow when you have spark on is also a nice situation to kill some monster quicker & safe.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Heartstone - Dreamweaver wrote: »

agree. but however harpyes in fc in no need for bow.
cast your trhow dagger. run. tele back when its at ground, then tackling stash..dead before freeze wear off. way betetr than use bow.

Totally

Because if an archer is attacking it, they won't have aggro, right?

Hate to point out, my friend, if an archer or wizard has aggro on the harpy, one single knife throw isn't going to get you aggro back. If you're a Sin, you want to help kill the Harpy, and you're in my squad, you'd better either have a bow, or be prepared to spam knife throw. Because I'm going to steal aggro from an assassin seven ways to Sunday on that Harpy assuming I don't already have it.

b:bye

Vitenka - Dreamweaver

rikako wrote: »

In my opinion using a bow at for example Polearm is a wise idea, unless you have a cleric who heals you up (most clerics are trash and only heal the tank and squad heal ffs, fuxxin oracles QQ)

I'd point out that this is the safest way to clear polearm in 99% of squads.

You do NOT want to get close to polearm without a tonne of hitpoints.

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Totally

Because if an archer is attacking it, they won't have aggro, right?

Hate to point out, my friend, if an archer or wizard has aggro on the harpy, one single knife throw isn't going to get you aggro back. If you're a Sin, you want to help kill the Harpy, and you're in my squad, you'd better either have a bow, or be prepared to spam knife throw. Because I'm going to steal aggro from an assassin seven ways to Sunday on that Harpy assuming I don't already have it.

b:bye

yes. but im usually luring em down before any atatck, so that bm/barb can hit too. ofcouse if theres like 3 air DD's in squad i rly dun care, as they kill fast enough. but done FC with no wiz/archer several times. work just fine, but harpyes need to be lured down XD
Archer/wiz zhen not needed as long have 2 bm's. I can get chi like no tkmorrow, so i try to 2 spark - subsea - earthen on a HF always. as a crit with last aoe ( earthen rift) on hf+ss almsot 1 shot the mobs ( do if chill of deep on)

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Heartstone - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yes. but im usually luring em down before any atatck, so that bm/barb can hit too. ofcouse if theres like 3 air DD's in squad i rly dun care, as they kill fast enough. but done FC with no wiz/archer several times. work just fine, but harpyes need to be lured down XD
Archer/wiz zhen not needed as long have 2 bm's. I can get chi like no tkmorrow, so i try to 2 spark - subsea - earthen on a HF always. as a crit with last aoe ( earthen rift) on hf+ss almsot 1 shot the mobs ( do if chill of deep on)

Sins in FC are utter ****. I have to admit, I might dislike Tideborn, but a good Sin in FC is just... beautiful beyond words. Although that said I quite like wizzy/archer zhen too, cause stuff can die equally fast in those zhens, as well.

I've not really had much variety in FC squads. I've only squadded with a two BMs/one barb combo in all of my FC life (and it's during these instances I will drag a harpy down so a melee can grab it and kill it too) so for the most part, I'm used to the harpies dying without being taken out of the air. =P

DorkFish - Sanctuary

*Goes and buys a bow and uses it on every mob just to annoy the OP*

~DF

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

Sins in FC are utter ****. I have to admit, I might dislike Tideborn, but a good Sin in FC is just... beautiful beyond words.

oxymoron O_o?

i prefer a good pair of archers over an assassin or more than one BM. multiple archers = nice damage spike. was in an FB79 yesterday with 5 demon archersand a cleric, we cleared the damn thing in 7 minutes, dropping brigand in under 30 with 5 demon sparks at once :]

point being, think of things like guarnob, aoe at a melee range thatd kill an assassin.
think ofmobs that reflect, good start on them
think of the harpies, dimentora, and a slew of other bosses.

stupid thread is stupid, close it now.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »

oxymoron O_o?

i prefer a good pair of archers over an assassin or more than one BM. multiple archers = nice damage spike. was in an FB79 yesterday with 5 demon archersand a cleric, we cleared the damn thing in 7 minutes, dropping brigand in under 30 with 5 demon sparks at once :]

point being, think of things like guarnob, aoe at a melee range thatd kill an assassin.
think ofmobs that reflect, good start on them
think of the harpies, dimentora, and a slew of other bosses.

stupid thread is stupid, close it now.

Actually, no, that censored word is NOT the word you think it is. xD Begins with r, ends with e.

And yeah, I prefer archers (or wizzies admittedly) over sins. More than one BM is a great combo.

And... wow. I wish I was there at that 79. o_o

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Actually, no, that censored word is NOT the word you think it is. xD Begins with r, ends with e.

rope, rate, Rome, role, rule.
(O.o)

Airyll - Dreamweaver

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

rope, rate, Rome, role, rule.
(O.o)

You witty, witty hamster, you. I have been bested. Would it help if I said it started in r, ended in e and between those letters was an a and a p?

(Watch me get told off for this. ._. )

WaffleChan - Sanctuary

so assassins violalte cows milk glands with carnal desire?

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As a DD, every class has to gimp and control their damage or they will steal. Archers included.

Why are you so determined to find out why or how an Assassin has to gimp when they have to do it exactly the same way that you do/did have to sometimes? It seems like a pointless argument when you should already know exactly how a DD will control their damage so as not to steal.

I know this. You know this. Every high level DD knows this.

losstarot specifically stated that a DD can control aggro without gimping damage. This is new to me, and I am trying to get him to explain his statement that seems to run counter to everything we know about being a DD.

EDIT: Here's his/her post stating so:

losstarot wrote: »

A DD needs to learn how to control aggro without gimping damage.

Also, most of the times, a Sin is using a bow on mobs and non-AoE bosses.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »

losstarot specifically stated that a DD can control aggro without gimping damage. This is new to me, and I am trying to get him to explain his statement that seems to run counter to everything we know about being a DD.

Ah, my apologies. I misread, then.

And if that's the case, I'm curious to know how I can control my damage without gimping it, too. I'm sure my squads would love if I could full-out DD while controlling damage at the same time because that's totally not gimping.

Legendadry - Harshlands

i can understand not trying to take agro of a herc or something like that but if there's a barb in squad ur fine. ur a sin so dmg is ur main role of ur class. Full dex is teh only way to go if you want to be a DD.

Airyll - Dreamweaver

Legendadry - Harshlands wrote: »

i can understand not trying to take agro of a herc or something like that but if there's a barb in squad ur fine. ur a sin so dmg is ur main role of ur class. Full dex is teh only way to go if you want to be a DD.

Damage control is still necessary because barbs can still lose aggro if you do too much damage. This is a common fact. Therefore, sometimes using a bow to gimp your damage if, say, the barb is a lower level than you and you don't want to go all out but you don't want to do just nothing either, is a perfectly fine way to DD until you can whip out your daggers and cut bosses into ribbon thin pieces.

Aclucius - Lost City

Legendadry - Harshlands wrote: »

i can understand not trying to take agro of a herc or something like that but if there's a barb in squad ur fine. ur a sin so dmg is ur main role of ur class. Full dex is teh only way to go if you want to be a DD.

I steal aggro all the time just using normal attacks (being a Vit/Hybrid build), and I steal it from Barbs who are higher level than me. Assassins are very powerful and put a lot of damage in a very short time. Going full Dex will only make you an even easier target for stealing aggro, except that when it comes down to it between me and a full Dex, I'll be able to take one or two more hits they can't.

So, full Dex does not mean you will be fine no matter what.

Elenacostel - Heavens Tear

Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »

I hope I am not being too nutty here, but technically speaking, you can "control aggro without gimping damage" by being your party's tank.

I doubt this makes any sense in lostarot's context, but... I need sleep which I am not getting and I will shut up.

b:shutup

While it is true to a certain extent, I am giving the opening poster the benefit of the doubt and hoping (s)he is not suggesting that assassins should choose tanking as a form of aggro control over using a bow.

Tapion_ - Dreamweaver

I can't believe this stupid thread is still open

How about this. No matter what you do there's always going to be aggro stealers. So, instead of trying to decrease the amount of aggro stealers in the game with fail threads, how about you try making yourself a better tank and shut up.

Krisnda - Lost City

Tapion_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I can't believe this stupid thread is still open

How about this. No matter what you do there's always going to be aggro stealers. So, instead of trying to decrease the amount of aggro stealers in the game with fail threads, how about you try making yourself a better tank and shut up.

i see much win in this post lol