Fantastic racism?

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  • MistaBwanden - Sanctuary
    MistaBwanden - Sanctuary Posts: 2,803 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Most don't want to squad with TB's because most TB's used oracles to get their levels, and can't play their damn class.
    Honestly, I don't mind.
    If I'm in a BH and I have a good barb that can hold agro, I'll deal with it.
  • Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver
    Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 432 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    I only found out about Oracles at level 39 or so. o_o Only because I wasn't sure what they were or what they did, and I didn't want to spend my own money buying EXP when I could easily get it myself. I remember having only doing like...five? It's hard to find a cleric buddy to help out, but it was kinda fun. I want to learn how to play my own class. I'd rather not be an easy-level-up n00b.
  • Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I only found out about Oracles at level 39 or so. o_o Only because I wasn't sure what they were or what they did, and I didn't want to spend my own money buying EXP when I could easily get it myself. I remember having only doing like...five? It's hard to find a cleric buddy to help out, but it was kinda fun. I want to learn how to play my own class. I'd rather not be an easy-level-up n00b.

    If only everyone was of the same opinion.
    Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.

    Hunter_PT - Cleric 9X, (Active/Main)
    PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
    Skeln - Barbarian 4X (Rarely-Active)
    Hunter_The - BM 1X (Rarely-Active)
  • Alvena - Sanctuary
    Alvena - Sanctuary Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    I was rather annoyed today, finally decided I'd try out a Tideborn. Got her to 20 and the Weapon quest came up. I was like - sweet, I'll go up and do it and get it over and done with. Stood in Secret Passage for a while asking for a squad, when I got an invite and they realized they were 20 - I was instantly booted.

    I PM'd them asking why I couldn't come along, and was told I was a fail noob. Now I think its obvious I haven't Oracled, because getting to Level 20 isn't a lot of work, I've spent time doing my own quests, learning what works best and what helps me deal damage. I had no intention to just sit back, and at level 20 I sure as hell wasn't going to run in and act like I'm top dog.

    I would've PM'd some of my friends, but I know they got stuff to do so it would have been easier to just go with a BH squad - I was willing to do anything to help. So yeah, I do see a bit of a "Do not take Tideborn on squad" trend happening. But I think there has to be a point where people should be understanding, and that some people have actually worked on their characters D: I'd be more worried taking an 89+ Tidie then some of the newer lower level ones. And I know some are damn good - I've taken a few on some FB69 runs to get their weapons. But you know, I think enough is enough. kthx <3



    Thats my two cents, even if it is just a whole bunch of Aussie gibberish. b:chuckle
  • Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Alvena - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I was rather annoyed today, finally decided I'd try out a Tideborn. Got her to 20 and the Weapon quest came up. I was like - sweet, I'll go up and do it and get it over and done with. Stood in Secret Passage for a while asking for a squad, when I got an invite and they realized they were 20 - I was instantly booted.

    I PM'd them asking why I couldn't come along, and was told I was a fail noob. Now I think its obvious I haven't Oracled, because getting to Level 20 isn't a lot of work, I've spent time doing my own quests, learning what works best and what helps me deal damage. I had no intention to just sit back, and at level 20 I sure as hell wasn't going to run in and act like I'm top dog.

    I would've PM'd some of my friends, but I know they got stuff to do so it would have been easier to just go with a BH squad - I was willing to do anything to help. So yeah, I do see a bit of a "Do not take Tideborn on squad" trend happening. But I think there has to be a point where people should be understanding, and that some people have actually worked on their characters D: I'd be more worried taking an 89+ Tidie then some of the newer lower level ones. And I know some are damn good - I've taken a few on some FB69 runs to get their weapons. But you know, I think enough is enough. kthx <3



    Thats my two cents, even if it is just a whole bunch of Aussie gibberish. b:chuckle

    The new generation of players dont seem to understand the basic values that the older generation has. Ive had no problem taking TB on my BH runs untill they starting acting like an idiot and mouth of saying their better etc, then im glad their is a boot from squad button. I still wont go on any FF/TT run though with a TB simply because the chance that they oracled is way to high. Not all TB are oracle'd idiots or suck at their class, just most.
    Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.

    Hunter_PT - Cleric 9X, (Active/Main)
    PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
    Skeln - Barbarian 4X (Rarely-Active)
    Hunter_The - BM 1X (Rarely-Active)
  • Alvena - Sanctuary
    Alvena - Sanctuary Posts: 35 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    I agree. A lot of Tideborns I've had have been sweet, careful people who were a pleasure to take along. I'm glad I haven't met a Uber-Oracle-Nooblette. But I'd be sure to kick them, like any other person who is playing a class and assumes that they're better then the rest of the squad, those people should go ahead and solo it if they're that good. ;)
  • Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Or just quit since they are that good they have no reason to play since us lesser folk would make them less awesome by simply being around them b:laugh.
    Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.

    Hunter_PT - Cleric 9X, (Active/Main)
    PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
    Skeln - Barbarian 4X (Rarely-Active)
    Hunter_The - BM 1X (Rarely-Active)
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    It's nice to see the discussion somewhat back on track. I would like to make a couple of clarifications however.

    IRL race is social construct, and not a concept with any basis on biology, except in that the term is sometimes used as an indicative of traits common to certain populations. The term's history as well as advancement in social sciences have brought the concept of ethnicity (itself also questionable) to the forefront in contemporary thought. The problem with these classifications is that in being generalizations they tend to reinforce both positive and negative perceptions. The study of population traits remains legitimate and useful in scientific study, but a dangerous undertaking in other contexts.

    In fantasy settings (ever since D&D) the term race is used to signify species. In PW's cosmogenesis all three of the original races (as created by Pangu) are nothing more than a biological genus (ability for cross reproduction having been established on the game's lore) comprised of three populations. Technically the untamed (as evolved from animals) have a different origin but this is made a moot point by their evolution, which provides them with the same biological traits as other "races". Tideborn as a species that seems to predate the traditional races (in lore) and has a distinct origin may be considered different to the others. Fantasy species of anthropogenic sea dwellers have often been shown as distinct in literature, their union with land people oft considered taboo (Wilde, Andersen). However, such DISTINCTIONS ARE ONLY RELEVANT TO ROLEPLAYERS.

    Race in RPGs remains exclusively a matter of lore and shouldn't be used as a concept in any other way but as description of ingame mechanics (aerogear, starting city, etc.). Now, the bias against Tideborn is actually a functional stigma. Compare to irl lawyers which may be generally subject to bad associations because of their profession's reputation. Yes, it would be prejudice to consider any given individual as corrupt or greedy because of a career choice but in no way does this compare to racism.

    "Racist" is a loaded term, and deeply offensive. To imply this of any player is careless at best. Itself it makes those using the term bigots. Discussions about prejudice are important, but common sense should be exercised when approaching such matters.
  • Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,222 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    "Racist" is a loaded term, and deeply offensive. To imply this of any player is careless at best. Itself it makes those using the term bigots. Discussions about prejudice are important, but common sense should be exercised when approaching such matters.

    I said this but more on the lines its pathetic to bring it into an mmo.
    *waits for the idiot to say 'Yes, we are joking and its fantasy racism'*
    Executor Of Reunited ~ Level 3 ~ Level 85+ ~ No Drama, No Pressure Faction.

    Hunter_PT - Cleric 9X, (Active/Main)
    PoisonedTip - Veno 7x (Retired)
    Skeln - Barbarian 4X (Rarely-Active)
    Hunter_The - BM 1X (Rarely-Active)
  • Alliptica - Raging Tide
    Alliptica - Raging Tide Posts: 1,545 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    MistaBwanden - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Most don't want to squad with TB's because most TB's used oracles to get their levels, and can't play their damn class.

    that is a generalization. maybe it would be more true if you said most tideborns above lvl 90 are oracle noobs.
    -retired-

    now playing megaten and...Forsaken World ;)
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    yus it's Smiley_Fantastic-1.gif
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Technotic - Sanctuary
    Technotic - Sanctuary Posts: 591 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    any tideborn that high spammed oracles.

    beyond that *yet again* still overpowered. people would think it would be nice to have an overpowered unit in their squad but not when its showing everyone else up.

    im not posting anymore on this, don't even bother with the insults.
    Say my name 3 times, I dare you.

    ~Technotic
    TrueMyths.Guildplex.com
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    yus it's Smiley_Fantastic.gif

    Error~
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    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver
    Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 432 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    To be honest, I do see what they mean when it comes to assasins - even I prepare for the worst when I see them in a squad, although I won't deny them.

    I had to kill Dismal Shade and recruited the help of...well, some unhelpful people, two of which were assassins. Our squad consisted fully of one BM, two sins (one was low level....) and me, a psychic. I was trying to convince them to get a cleric and a veno for tanking, but their response was, "we have two assassins, we'll be fine." That was problem number one. (I didn't have lead at the time.)

    Problem number two happened when I went to my guild to get a cleric, at least. We got one, but they wouldn't even wait for her once she arrived in the dungeon. In fact, the BM had gone afk or something and the two sins just went straight to the boss. They were still running when the cleric was ready to go, and we caught up to them a little after they'd entered the boss room. Dismal Shade has tombstones, Skelwizens on horse creatures, and Frost in one corner. It's not a pretty setup. Basically, they went in, aggroed the minions AND the boss all at the same time, and were killed in minutes. I ran, but I guess the boss and everyone else saw me, and began chasing me down the hall. I couldn't escape and I died, simple as that.

    Needless to say, cleric and I found a different (better) squad.
  • Esnemyl - Dreamweaver
    Esnemyl - Dreamweaver Posts: 3,079 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    We were taking down a wb, and i was invited into a squad, im nearly lvl 30, but everyone else was lvl 70+, they told me to "level up u noob" and kicked me before calling me a scrub. i hate Levelism ( discrimination of someones level)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]<3 by Silvy
    Reborn ditzy archer with a serious oreo addiction =3

    '...cuz my IQ is just above what is required to function as a human' - tsumaru2
  • Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver
    Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 432 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Esnemyl - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    We were taking down a wb, and i was invited into a squad, im nearly lvl 30, but everyone else was lvl 70+, they told me to "level up u noob" and kicked me before calling me a scrub. i hate Levelism ( discrimination of someones level)

    O_o Not to justify this Levelism, but...level 30 on a world boss? It was rude to call you names, but why would you want to do a wb at that level? Even if they were nice enough to take you along, there's many other higher levels with better firepower they could invite.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Esnemyl - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    We were taking down a wb, and i was invited into a squad, im nearly lvl 30, but everyone else was lvl 70+, they told me to "level up u noob" and kicked me before calling me a scrub. i hate Levelism ( discrimination of someones level)

    Be grateful they kicked you

    Most WBs have an AoE as far as I'm aware and would have probably ***** you thrice over. The name calling probably wasn't needed but they've just saved you a waste of time and a buttload of your EXP. Stop crying about it.

    [Yes, level 30 is too low to take on a WB.]
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    "Levelism"? This is ludicrous... Games with an advancement system are based on the premise of accessing content through character progression. You may think me an "academicist" but i won't allow someone without a Phd to prescribe treatment for a disease in case i need it.
  • Tekril - Dreamweaver
    Tekril - Dreamweaver Posts: 308 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Race in RPGs remains exclusively a matter of lore and shouldn't be used as a concept in any other way but as description of ingame mechanics (aerogear, starting city, etc.). Now, the bias against Tideborn is actually a functional stigma. Compare to irl lawyers which may be generally subject to bad associations because of their profession's reputation. Yes, it would be prejudice to consider any given individual as corrupt or greedy because of a career choice but in no way does this compare to racism.
    No one said fantasy elements had to be functional. They're for pretend. You're pretending they're "Tideborn" instead of calling them a group iof character models with certain values and classifications. There's nothing wrong with

    And it's not like we actually mean that the ones discriminating against others in-game are real racists. But coming from their characters who are other races, they are storyline racists(aka fantasy racists)
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    "Racist" is a loaded term, and deeply offensive. To imply this of any player is careless at best. Itself it makes those using the term bigots. Discussions about prejudice are important, but common sense should be exercised when approaching such matters.
    False. You have RPers who get in-character, and guys that joke around with their friends or guildies about in-game ****. Common sense includes the notion of that.

    Plus, PC bullcrap is for conservatives. I'm not gonna use a word only a certain way just because everyone's getting so butthurt about it.
    Alvena - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I was rather annoyed today, finally decided I'd try out a Tideborn. Got her to 20 and the Weapon quest came up. I was like - sweet, I'll go up and do it and get it over and done with. Stood in Secret Passage for a while asking for a squad, when I got an invite and they realized they were 20 - I was instantly booted.

    I PM'd them asking why I couldn't come along, and was told I was a fail noob. Now I think its obvious I haven't Oracled, because getting to Level 20 isn't a lot of work, I've spent time doing my own quests, learning what works best and what helps me deal damage. I had no intention to just sit back, and at level 20 I sure as hell wasn't going to run in and act like I'm top dog.

    I would've PM'd some of my friends, but I know they got stuff to do so it would have been easier to just go with a BH squad - I was willing to do anything to help. So yeah, I do see a bit of a "Do not take Tideborn on squad" trend happening. But I think there has to be a point where people should be understanding, and that some people have actually worked on their characters D: I'd be more worried taking an 89+ Tidie then some of the newer lower level ones. And I know some are damn good - I've taken a few on some FB69 runs to get their weapons. But you know, I think enough is enough. kthx <3



    Thats my two cents, even if it is just a whole bunch of Aussie gibberish. b:chuckle
    Ouch. I haven't experienced anything like that yet. Sounds like it would be depressing.

    There's a lot of idiots playing MMOs nowadays though that need their mommies to teach them more manners.
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I said this but more on the lines its pathetic to bring it into an mmo.
    It is not, plain and simple. It's just a word.
    Hunter_PT - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    *waits for the idiot to say 'Yes, we are joking and its fantasy racism'*
    lol, personal attacks again. I don't have time to argue personal stuff with a 12 year old.



    Edit: No wait. I'm gonna do what I should've done from the beginning. It was stupid of me to fuel the immature egos here.

    I'm giving y'all the internet bird right now. Get butthurt from words if you want, but they're gonna be used a way you don't want them to. Can't take it? Than fk off. I'm done caring what you think.

    Haters gonna hate.
  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Ilwyn_ - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I was in two BH squads today, and there's this guy hanging around the head hunter looking for squads that has a hatred for tideborn, apparently. Our leader invited him, and he accepted. Then he said something like, "I won't squad with tides" and left. It was me and an assassin, I think. I was invited into another squad earlier and as soon as I accepted, he leaves.

    So...who else has met asses like this? He still hasn't gotten a squad, and he won't get one anytime soon. Every full squad now has at least one Tideborn in it.

    People forms perception when most of the tideborn (who oracled) did not know what to do.

    Despite Giodia being hated on the forums, I have no problems getting into squads.

    It is because I know what to do and what NOT to do.

    Had a squad yesterday with 1 Barb, 1 Cleric, 1 Archer, 1 mage + me. Archer is always shooting at targets as soon as barb hits it. But barb switched target (multiple mobs) and archer continued shooting and got aggro plenty of times.

    Wizard was doing the same thing till he was reminded to assist tank target.

    I have been in BH long enough to know tanks will switch targets on multiple mobs. Apparently, those 2 cowboys do not.

    The archer was looking cool with his barrage, which he ran up and casted right beside the mobs and barb. I was laughing and soon the barb reminded him that his barrage is affected by range penalty too.

    If people's perception are that your class has failed, then all the more you need to hold yourself with pride, watch what you do very carefully. This will not give anyone more ammo to hate you.

    Do not do what your class have been accused of doing. Learn your own powers and do the right thing at the right time (ie saving clerics, shoot the mob and psychic will) will earn you bonus points.
  • AmorrosColt - Sanctuary
    AmorrosColt - Sanctuary Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    It is in-game racism but, does not imply any real racism(obviously), It's got nothing to do with Skills(Contradicting what I said earlier, I've changed my mind), If it did Have to do with skills, I'd be kicked out of BH squads all the time, I don't use ANY axes or hammers(as a Barbarian), I use swords and yet I don't get kicked out of squad, Why? No-one cares, except for "Superior" players that absolutely have to have the game at it's original, intended gameplay... Sense the Tideborn are relatively new, We'll all be seeing this a lot... Who knows, the source of ignorance maybe something else.
  • Softie - Harshlands
    Softie - Harshlands Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    anybody else find it funny the guy was that dumb?
  • AmorrosColt - Sanctuary
    AmorrosColt - Sanctuary Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    What guy in particular? I assume you mean the guy that wouldn't squad with Ilwyn_?
  • Vorawrcious - Harshlands
    Vorawrcious - Harshlands Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    Give me a decent cleric and i could care less who fills the other spots as long as they not afk and doing some DD

    I'll take 2 psychics and 2 assassins , wont bother me any. Though the fishy smells might get to me sometimes. Me being a big ol cat, that fishy smell make my appetiete increase.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    Error~
    IMG link fail~~~
    b:surrender

    eww it was there like, a min ago. photobucket sucks
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver
    XanZerstorer - Dreamweaver Posts: 505 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    AmorrosColt - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It is in-game racism but, does not imply any real racism(obviously), It's got nothing to do with Skills(Contradicting what I said earlier, I've changed my mind), If it did Have to do with skills, I'd be kicked out of BH squads all the time, I don't use ANY axes or hammers(as a Barbarian), I use swords and yet I don't get kicked out of squad, Why? No-one cares, except for "Superior" players that absolutely have to have the game at it's original, intended gameplay... Sense the Tideborn are relatively new, We'll all be seeing this a lot... Who knows, the source of ignorance maybe something else.

    Seriously, if you can do your job as a barb - ie. keep aggro and not die in the process - IDC what weapon you're using. Swords? Good. You're missing less often, lol. I knew a dex barb on HT server and he was a good barb (though he still used axes). That, and in tiger form, people don't see your weapon... and very few will actually bother to check equipment. For all I care I could be teaming up with sword barbs and not notice (because I don't check all the time).

    Anyways, on-topic...

    I'd probably call it discrimination as well, tbh. Now it was attitudes such as "I'm not teaming up with anything but elves", that'd be racist. And laughable too; every class as its good and bad points. I never refused BH/FB squads to tides looking for token quest (if anything I take them, no one else does...) and won't start now...

    Some people just bunch up everyone in the class anyways. And not just restricted to tides. BMs who rush like headless chickens, barbs who can't keep aggro worth ****, archers/wizzies who keep stealing aggro, clerics running on macros on debuffing bosses. Unfortunately, it goes for a buncha people... just not with the WHOLE ENTIRE class.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Due to constant PMs: I'm not German, sorry folks D:
  • chelseacrafter
    chelseacrafter Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    If you can't figure out that the OP is talking about the races of cartoons in the game & is NOT talking about real life racism...

    please just move on to another thread.

    You will never "get it" & any comments you make are not on topic.

    I wish people would stay on topic. The topic is about how some real life people have something against the Tideborn race in the game.

    PICK UP THE CLUE PHONE... thank you. b:chuckle
  • BambooHugger - Lost City
    BambooHugger - Lost City Posts: 182 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    we need to make up some racial insults for them.


    I'll start
    1. BlueBalls.
    BambooHugger-7x Arcane Barbarian- ImSoFail-Tarded
  • chelseacrafter
    chelseacrafter Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    OH...

    and by the way... WELCOME to the SAME THING the Venomancers have to deal with all the time.

    From my first day on the game I've been insulted for being a veno, kicked out of squads, not allowed in squads, called worthless, told I'm a guy when I'm female in real life & told I don't need help because all venos are rich. Not to mention that everyone thinks it's OK to KS a veno but don't you dare accidentally touch a mob they are using aoe skills on to mass kill mobs. It's ok for everyone else to kill multiple mobs using skills but it's not OK for venos to do it using pets.

    Actually where psychics are concerned.... I see everyone's point. I'm sick of them myself. The KSing is enough to earn their class a bad reputation.
  • chelseacrafter
    chelseacrafter Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2010
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    BambooHugger - Lost City wrote: »
    we need to make up some racial insults for them.


    I'll start
    1. BlueBalls.

    LOL People already do it to the assassins. Instead of using the polite "Sins" nickname they call them "Asses".

    To me it's like bad drivers... don't blame the car... it's the bad driver's fault.

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