Demon Or Sage.. And Why? *For Barbs*
VICLuka - Heavens Tear
Posts: 38 Arc User
i would like to know why people go sage or demon for a Barb
i would like to see if they like it as well or wish they went the other way
b:cuteb:victory Thanks all
i would like to see if they like it as well or wish they went the other way
b:cuteb:victory Thanks all
b:cute If i was with you.. The World Would Never End for Me b:cute
Post edited by VICLuka - Heavens Tear on
0
Comments
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I have decided to go demon for the following reasons.
Beastial onslaught gives 35% crit(freaking nice).
More crit and damage in general.
The true form skill in demon seems more helpful as sage only gives about 2% damage mitigation and 1k hp vs double the damage.
Beastial rage gives more chi which could be helpful.
I like demon spark better.
The ability to spam fleshream faster.
By in large the decision for me was hold aggro better and have some nice pvp skills vs just be able to tank slightly better, the choice for me was clear.
However cant say without a doubt yet as I am still 18 levels off.0 -
I CHOSSE DEMON TO pk more, plus gives tiger form another way to play the game..0
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I choose to become a Sage barb because everyone else turns demon. There's nothing like being able to withstand their attacks with the massive increase in defense and health.
Also, the Sage spark grants a 25% damage reduction in damage. Pair that up with solid shield and there you have a secondary "Invoke the Spirit".
I decided to turn sage when I found myself being attacked by 4 level 70 barbarians, all of them were charmed; I wasn't, but yet I survived. I didn't run, I faced them head on and killed 2 of them (though the two I killed kept on coming back). I really enjoyed the fact that they couldn't beat me. I fought a level 95 BM while I was around 84 and he wasn't able to kill me either. It was a battle of attrition where in the end, he decided to cop out and quite mumbling to himself why he couldn't kill an 8x barb.
Sage is good to wear out your opponents and is excellent in PvE. The HP boost is well worth it.
On the skill side, Sage skills go chi crazy, meaning I could do my sparks more often, invoke defensively and I get a stabler damage output.Brutu - Heavens Tear wrote: »The true form skill in demon seems more helpful as sage only gives about 2% damage mitigation and 1k hp vs double the damage.
Sage and Demon Tiger Form Traits
SAGE
Sage version always increases physical defense gain from 60% to 120%.
Sage version always increases maximum HP by 40%.
DEMON
Demon version gives a critical hit rate increase of 2%.
Demon version lets tiger form attacks do full damage.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=4598420 -
Brutu - Heavens Tear wrote: »
More crit and damage in general.
The true form skill in demon seems more helpful as sage only gives about 2% damage mitigation and 1k hp vs double the damage.
1-If u want to be a real tank, concentrate on tanking, not damage...Go sage +++HP and phys res.
2-double the damage? LOL Its double base phys attack, which means, at my lvl (93 sage), if i do 3000 dam in tiger, i do about 3600 in human...not so impressive now, is it?
Main idea is, sage=better tank; demon=better DD-pk.0 -
Khalfani - Harshlands wrote: »I choose to become a Sage barb because everyone else turns demon. There's nothing like being able to withstand their attacks with the massive increase in defense and health.
Also, the Sage spark grants a 25% damage reduction in damage. Pair that up with solid shield and there you have a secondary "Invoke the Spirit".
stuff.sadasjkdlda
-the reason no1 cares about 40% is think about... is it that much of a difference from 30%? not a big one
-sage spark lol gl w/ casting and killin some1 u up close melee class(most likely if they c u spark they will run), and i wouldnt think of using it in a pvp battle with mor then 1 vs me lol(unless ur purpose is for pve, still not really worth it...)
their r mor reason ijs0 -
arent you forgetting something ?Khalfani - Harshlands wrote: »Sage and Demon Tiger Form Traits
SAGE
Sage version always increases physical defense gain from 60% to 120%.
Sage version always increases maximum HP by 40%.
DEMON
Demon version gives a critical hit rate increase of 2%.
Demon version lets tiger form attacks do full damage.
Sage and Demon Tiger Form FULL Traits
SAGE
Sage version always increases physical defense gain from 60% to 120%.
Sage version always increases maximum HP by 40%.
Sage version always increases movement speed by 90%.
Sage version always inflict 50% less weapon damage.
DEMON
Demon version always increases physical defense gain from 60% to 80% plus an increase of 2% critical rate.
Demon version always increases maximum HP by 30%.
Demon version always increases movement speed by 80%.
Demon version lets tiger form attacks do full damage.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)
>RETIRED<0 -
GohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »arent you forgetting something ?
Sage and Demon Tiger Form FULL Traits
SAGE
Sage version always increases physical defense gain from 60% to 120%.
Sage version always increases maximum HP by 40%.
Sage version always increases movement speed by 90%.
Sage version always inflict 50% less weapon damage.
DEMON
Demon version always increases physical defense gain from 60% to 80% plus an increase of 2% critical rate.
Demon version always increases maximum HP by 30%.
Demon version always increases movement speed by 80%.
Demon version lets tiger form attacks do full damage.
As a sage barb I have no problem holding aggro. Thus, I do not need the full damage in tiger. The full damage in tiger is mainly to open up a new pvp route.
In the end it is a personal decision.
Overall idea:
Sage = more hp and defense to tank, more base damage, more chi
Demon = greater pvp oppurtunities and styles, huge crits
You will find that at this level, sage or demon, you're still a barb, and we rock endgame.
P.S. The increase from 30% to 40% makes a huge difference when your hp is over 15k.0 -
GohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »arent you forgetting something ?
Sage and Demon Tiger Form FULL Traits
SAGE
Sage version always increases physical defense gain from 60% to 120%.
Sage version always increases maximum HP by 40%.
Sage version always increases movement speed by 90%.
Sage version always inflict 50% less weapon damage.
DEMON
Demon version always increases physical defense gain from 60% to 80% plus an increase of 2% critical rate.
Demon version always increases maximum HP by 30%.
Demon version always increases movement speed by 80%.
Demon version lets tiger form attacks do full damage.
SAGE
Sage version always increases physical defense gain from 60% to 120%.
Sage version always increases maximum HP by 40%.
Sage version always increases movement speed by 90%.
Sage version always inflict 50% less weapon damage.
-balancing-
Axe/Hammer Mastery Sage version always increases weapon damage gain to 100%.
Strength of Titans Sage version always increases damage by 50% of weapon attack.
DEMON
Demon version always increases physical defense gain from 60% to 80% plus an increase of 2% critical rate.
Demon version always increases maximum HP by 30%.
Demon version always increases movement speed by 80%.
Demon version lets tiger form attacks do full damage.
Axe/Hammer Mastery Demon version gives a critical hit rate increase of 2%.
Strength of Titans Demon version increases critical hit rate by 5% for 1 minute.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=4598420 -
Not another one of these damn threads again.
Look...it breaks down as this:
Sage Barb : Awesome tank; Fair damage
Demon Barb : Fair tank; Awesome damage.
Now YOU have to choose what YOU want to do more........
Both paths are well balanced.
A sage barb not only has 10% more HP as tiger but 60% more pdef and does higher steady damage in human form (from titans). Also most sage skills save and/or generate more chi for more flesh reaming/devouring/armageddoning?. The 15% HP saved then combined with the sage chi building and sunder means you can Armageddon fairly safely and fairly often. A freaking tank...literally.....slow and steadily hacking his way along.
A demon barb has full damage as tiger and insane crits. In tiger form is a lethal PKer, because his HP is still quite high and his damage is ridiculous. If a sage barb is a tank, this guy is an assault vehicle.When the going gets tough; Get a tank!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Nocturne mature HT guild - we invite people, not levels.
pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=7608420 -
This is a common misconception that the difference from a Sage Tank and a Demon Tank is vast and that Sage can tank better then Demons, the truth is that the difference is near to none.
The 120% pdef is of gear value and it's only about 2% pdef reduction more then what a demon barb has at 9x, once your pdef goes over a certain point it starts to have diminishing value.
Just to make this even clearer I will use pwcalc.ru:
Demon barb: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=51bc837ba02b9e93
pdef: 18181 (buffed)
hp: 20290
patk: 4299-7374 (both in tiger and normal form)
Sage barb: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=fecd9c3b672e6dc3
pdef: 20203 (buffed)
hp: 21490
patk: 4564-7833 (not in tiger form)
The Demon barb has a physical reduction of 82% and the Sage barb has a physical reduction of 83%, that is only 1% from 18k to 20k pdef. You will hardly notice the 1% pdef difference.
As for the 1.2k hp it's not that great big of a deal, with a decent cleric you wont notice that either.
Sages have more constant patk (300-500 more) but demons have a lot more critical.
IMO you cant go wrong with Demon and honestly the only thing that Sage barb gets is the Chi Skill which can be replaced by spamming demon HP Buff (5-6 buffs will give your 3 sparks) or just farming herbs for Chi pots.0 -
Khalfani - Harshlands wrote: »I choose to become a Sage barb because everyone else turns demon. There's nothing like being able to withstand their attacks with the massive increase in defense and health.
Also, the Sage spark grants a 25% damage reduction in damage. Pair that up with solid shield and there you have a secondary "Invoke the Spirit".
I decided to turn sage when I found myself being attacked by 4 level 70 barbarians, all of them were charmed; I wasn't, but yet I survived. I didn't run, I faced them head on and killed 2 of them (though the two I killed kept on coming back). I really enjoyed the fact that they couldn't beat me. I fought a level 95 BM while I was around 84 and he wasn't able to kill me either. It was a battle of attrition where in the end, he decided to cop out and quite mumbling to himself why he couldn't kill an 8x barb.
Sage is good to wear out your opponents and is excellent in PvE. The HP boost is well worth it.
On the skill side, Sage skills go chi crazy, meaning I could do my sparks more often, invoke defensively and I get a stabler damage output.
Sage and Demon Tiger Form Traits
SAGE
Sage version always increases physical defense gain from 60% to 120%.
Sage version always increases maximum HP by 40%.
DEMON
Demon version gives a critical hit rate increase of 2%.
Demon version lets tiger form attacks do full damage.
Sage gives 40% over 30% which is about 1k extra hp(more like 1.5k at lvl 89)as that is only a 10% increase.
60% physical on the other hand comes out to about a 2% damage mitigation depending on your base physical.
As far as why demon is good demon barbs not only hold aggro better, which is often for me more of a problem then my tank, but also have some pretty nice skills in both tiger and humanoid form for pvp.0 -
The 2 paths dont seem very well balanced AT ALL if you wanna pvp or maybe im missing something b:surrender.
A demon barb with all event gear + all mastery's will have about 50-60% crit after demon onslaught procs. Than Armageddon after that + the chance of a zerk proc added to the insane crit boost. How is sage in any way gonna compete with that?
I guess the paths are balanced if you dont care for pvp much, just wanna play pure tank, pull cata in TW and tank hard bosses type harpy wraith but what barb wanna dedicate their ingame time only doing that - without dying out of boredom. For any form of pvp sage seems kinda bad and specially 1v1
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I agree with Cleon, i took that into consideration so i'm devoted to go demon too. the phys def boost is barely noticeable, and the hp boost can be made up with shards and good gears. in a way i guess if you're "richer" demon might be better, but for cheaper ppl sage might be better, iono. (still needs to try it out)0
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go demon. the 3x spark = 25% more attack speed, throw it in with 90 gloves, and your full tiger damage, and you have a wonderful aggro holder.
beastial onslaught/sunder/str of titans/mastery make for a huge increase in crit for that 10% more damage arma you hope zerk/crits on the nearest pack of noobs
use an str genie with chi siphon or cloud eruption, and youll make up for chi faster than stinkin sages can get. plenty worth it.
...demon archers are like mormons... we want everyone to be demons.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
advice to fledgling archers:
Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.0 -
Khalfani - Harshlands wrote: »SAGE
Sage version always increases physical defense gain from 60% to 120%.
Sage version always increases maximum HP by 40%.
Sage version always increases movement speed by 90%.
Sage version always inflict 50% less weapon damage.
-balancing-
Axe/Hammer Mastery Sage version always increases weapon damage gain to 100%.
Strength of Titans Sage version always increases damage by 50% of weapon attack.
+Poison Fang Sage version makes each attack deals an extra 40% of weapon attack in Wood damage for 30 minutes.
DEMON
Demon version always increases physical defense gain from 60% to 80% plus an increase of 2% critical rate.
Demon version always increases maximum HP by 30%.
Demon version always increases movement speed by 80%.
Demon version lets tiger form attacks do full damage.
Axe/Hammer Mastery Demon version gives a critical hit rate increase of 2%...AND always increases weapon damage gain to 75%
Strength of Titans Demon version increases critical hit rate by 5% for 1 minute...AND always increases damage by 40% of weapon attack
+Poison Fang Demon version makes each attack deals an extra 50% of weapon attack in Wood damage for 15 minutes.
^ fixed
AGAIN...for every 15 minutes:
SAGE'S DAMAGE BUFF'S = DEMON'S DAMAGE BUFF
works for BOTH FORMS
(buff: Titan Strenght & Poison Fang)
the HUMAN difference:
SAGE AXE MASTERY where u have +25% more increase in weapon damage (more DPH) than demon and 1 more RANGE-NO-MISS skill (ONSLAUGHT)
but DEMON has waaaay more crit due to skills and passive (every 8sec more than 40%crit for 6sec) and 1 more MELEE-NO-MISS skill (STOMP)
so for human -> DEMONS OUTDAMAGE SAGES(crit >> dph)
then for tiger difference :
SAGE has CHI, 60%p.def and 10%HP/SPEED more than demon but also a 50% weapon damage DECREASE
DEMON has more passive and active crit (up to 100% for 5sec every 30sec), way more aggro, more cancel and debuffing ability
so for tiger -> NO DOUBT THAT DEMONS OUTDAMAGE SAGES
i personally prefer DEMON since i think it has WAY more efficency than SAGE
The barb can be a MEAT SHIELD (it is a meat shield until 89), but when u choose final cultivation, what u would like more ?
-lil more numbers to add to life and defense BUT same boring gameplay (moretank)
OR
-lil more numbers to add to crit and damage AND new gameplay (tank/DD/full-tiger) and efficent use of crit-combo/aoes
ARE U HERE JUST TO SEE NUMBER GROWS ?
OR DO U PLAY THE GAME TO HAVE MORE FUN ?
in my opinion in the end sage is not that much b:cold
not a total waste, but the lamest from the possible choice b:bye
i know im 77 and not even active and you are already 89 but the source (ecatomb) is safe already and the skills are well known at this rate...
i dont mind what you or whoever pick...i know that once you choose a cultivation you defend it with all that you have =P
its a matter of preferably...choose what you like more or just flip a coin b:puzzled[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)
>RETIRED<0 -
you can't use gloves in tiger form...WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »go demon. the 3x spark = 25% more attack speed, throw it in with 90 gloves, and your full tiger damage, and you have a wonderful aggro holder.0 -
Careful, fanboys of their build come out of the woodwork on topics such as this. I'm also skeptical of people dissecting the numbers of every skill opposed to how it actually works in game.VICLuka - Heavens Tear wrote: »i would like to know why people go sage or demon for a Barb
i would like to see if they like it as well or wish they went the other way
b:cuteb:victory Thanks all
I'd take my barb sage if I simply like a lot of HP and phys def. Should be easier being a cata/rb barb pulling in groups of things via sage, and the chi skill is damn useful for all the chi burning skills you'll need. This combined with cloud should be sufficient to not need a veno throwing sparks every few mins.
I'd take my barb demon if I want to rely a lot less on FR to tank in the later levels where sage barbs have significant trouble holding aggro due to limited tiger dmg and FR being less effective.
Depends on which you prefer.0 -
you can't use gloves in tiger form...
?
so theres no barbs that use wrist protection ? cmon...try to think a lil
IN TIGER FORM U JUST CANT SWITCH EQUIP, BUT ALL THE ITEM U CAN EQUIP IN HUMAN FORM, REMAIN EQUIPPED EVEN IN TIGER FORM...
as an archer, i think that waffle has added that DEMON SPARK and 90wrist tip for those who whish to get more attack speed which stack with the demon spark...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)
>RETIRED<0 -
i think he wanted to say that you cant switch to tiger form with claws0
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GohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »?
so theres no barbs that use wrist protection ? cmon...try to think a lil
IN TIGER FORM U JUST CANT SWITCH EQUIP, BUT ALL THE ITEM U CAN EQUIP IN HUMAN FORM, REMAIN EQUIPPED EVEN IN TIGER FORM...
as an archer, i think that waffle has added that DEMON SPARK and 90wrist tip for those who whish to get more attack speed which stack with the demon spark...
wristsbraces are not gloves, i thought she/he was refering to "fists" which look like glowing gloves (read in a hurry) my bad...0 -
b:beatup my bad for the misunderstanding
b:embarrass and i didnt even know that u couldnt transform into tiger while wearing fist, i never bother to try b:surrender
...oh god, i miss this game even more now b:cry[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)
>RETIRED<0 -
This is a funny thread, especially given the complete lack of 89+ barbs posting. b:chuckle
On my cuddly pve server, most barbs are sage. Demon barbs are considered 'fails' by, in my estimation, 90% of the playing population.
Here are some facts that don't include a player calc or any numbers whatsoever:
-As a demon, I absolutely destroy everything and everyone in pvp. Take that statement with a grain of salt, of course I'm NOT the absolute best and baddest, but for the most part this statement holds true. This also includes end game sage barbs. I know this isn't much of a claim on a pve server, but we DO have some pk'ers and even some that know what they're doing. I have no event gear whatsoever, by design, and I have no problem handling the majority of people that do. The only thing I fear in pvp is another demon barb.
-As a demon, I have absolutely no problem holding aggro without ever even using Flesh Ream. Using +7 GX's with a balanced tank (VIT+STR) build, using triple spark lead with devour and genie debuffs, if I get even a 5 second head start on my DDs, there's no chance they're taking the mob or boss off me. I've only ever known demon archers with high refine end game weps and a genie built with chi skills (for constant triple sparking) to challenge me for aggro.
Ladies and gents, what it boils down to is this:
You want to pull a catapult in TW? Go sage.
Don't care about pulling a catapult in TW? Go demon. b:victory==Sanctuary's Last Demon Barbarian== ... (lol strife)
Off through the new day's mist, I run
Out from the new day's mist, I have come
We shift, pulsing with the earth
Company we keep, roaming the land while you sleep...0 -
Lycanthar - Sanctuary wrote: »This is a funny thread, especially given the complete lack of 89+ barbs posting. b:chuckle
Probably because we've all posted in every other Demon/Sage thread that's come along.
Learn to use search feature guys....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Lvl10XBarb
Lvl10XArcher
lvl10XAssassin0 -
it doesnt matter how refined your weapon is really, its flesh ream that doing the agro, a lvl 20 could take agro from a lvl 90+ if they flesh reamed after. I usually Flesh Ream every 2 hits after, good thing about sage one when you get it, it only uses 15 chi, so that + sage beastial rage i never run outta chi.
Sage is good for tanking for these reasons (just makes tanking easier)0 -
KingTank - Heavens Tear wrote: »it doesnt matter how refined your weapon is really, its flesh ream that doing the agro, a lvl 20 could take agro from a lvl 90+ if they flesh reamed after. I usually Flesh Ream every 2 hits after, good thing about sage one when you get it, it only uses 15 chi, so that + sage beastial rage i never run outta chi.
Sage is good for tanking for these reasons (just makes tanking easier)
Chi is not a issue for barbs, if you don't have ~2 sparks 90% of the time while tanking you are doing something wrong.
IMO Demon Flesh Ream is actually better, reduces it cool down from 3 sec to 2.5 = more aggro.0 -
@people who misinterpret my post
gloves = bracers = wristguards =whatever the hell you wanna call them.
those TT90 vambraces of the brute with -.1 interval. faster attack + full damage helps demon barbs hold aggro very well for me and my fellow demon archer buddies.
its not really that hard of a concept to understand something that protects your hands |:. if i suggested barbarians use fists and claws, i would be stupider than archers who go sage.
@lycanthar.
you never destroyed my veno
. except that one time with a lucky sunder QQ. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
advice to fledgling archers:
Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.0 -
WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »@people who misinterpret my post
gloves = bracers = wristguards =whatever the hell you wanna call them.
those TT90 vambraces of the brute with -.1 interval. faster attack + full damage helps demon barbs hold aggro very well for me and my fellow demon archer buddies.
its not really that hard of a concept to understand something that protects your hands |:. if i suggested barbarians use fists and claws, i would be stupider than archers who go sage.
@lycanthar.
you never destroyed my veno. except that one time with a lucky sunder QQ.
then, i got it right back then uh ? b:victoryGohRaL - Sanctuary wrote: »as an archer, i think that waffle has added that DEMON SPARK and 90wrist tip for those who whish to get more attack speed which stack with the demon spark...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
...i guarantee you, YOUR CHILDREN WILL NOT SEE THE DAY OF YOUR WHITE HAIRS...GOODBYE BLUE SKY (and PW too)
>RETIRED<0 -
noobs nead to learn how to use the search function, there are hundreds of identical threads like this..0
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WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »@people who misinterpret my post
gloves = bracers = wristguards =whatever the hell you wanna call them.
those TT90 vambraces of the brute with -.1 interval. faster attack + full damage helps demon barbs hold aggro very well for me and my fellow demon archer buddies.
its not really that hard of a concept to understand something that protects your hands |:. if i suggested barbarians use fists and claws, i would be stupider than archers who go sage.
@lycanthar.
you never destroyed my veno. except that one time with a lucky sunder QQ.
i would think you would spot the difference since the hint is in the name (wrist bracer)...
also http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=553941 just for lulz0 -
Cleon - Harshlands wrote: »Chi is not a issue for barbs, if you don't have ~2 sparks 90% of the time while tanking you are doing something wrong.
IMO Demon Flesh Ream is actually better, reduces it cool down from 3 sec to 2.5 = more aggro.
i usually have 3 sparks most of the time, there's only 1 boss that is quiet annoying i know with chi because it chi drains you0
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