diamond of tiger

RainZ - Raging Tide
RainZ - Raging Tide Posts: 231 Arc User
edited May 2011 in Archer
Is diamond of tiger useful in replacement of garnet gems for weapon? Im not quite sure how +1 attack lvl work...feedback pls b:thanks
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Post edited by RainZ - Raging Tide on
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    RainZ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Is diamond of tiger useful in replacement of garnet gems for weapon? Im not quite sure how +1 attack lvl work...feedback pls b:thanks

    Nope never. A diamond of tiger typically adds around 1% more damage and even a flawless garnet does better than that. Garnet gems are usually 3-4 times better.

    Diamond of tiger only really makes sense in armor and you can socket 24 of them to get +24 attack level.
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  • RainZ - Raging Tide
    RainZ - Raging Tide Posts: 231 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Nope never. A diamond of tiger typically adds around 1% more damage and even a flawless garnet does better than that. Garnet gems are usually 3-4 times better.

    Diamond of tiger only really makes sense in armor and you can socket 24 of them to get +24 attack level.

    Wow never thought of that lol... glass cannon like?
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  • Technotic - Sanctuary
    Technotic - Sanctuary Posts: 591 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I already have 12 diamond of tiger in my armor, and I have the other 12 in bank. I've been setting this up for a while on my end game armor. Its nice when I go into instance and I do +22% damage every hit.
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  • RainZ - Raging Tide
    RainZ - Raging Tide Posts: 231 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I already have 12 diamond of tiger in my armor, and I have the other 12 in bank. I've been setting this up for a while on my end game armor. Its nice when I go into instance and I do +22% damage every hit.

    Is there some sort of effect... like lightning or fire when u 4 socket the armor with it?
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  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    RainZ - Raging Tide wrote: »
    Is there some sort of effect... like lightning or fire when u 4 socket the armor with it?

    no its kinda disapointing but 4 socket vit ston/DOT/DOD armor has no sninyness
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver
    Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    it gives the armor spikes and a blueish glow..really cool looking
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    lol i thought mana shards gave spikes and blue glow...i know vit stones kind of give sparkles or something

    i think heavy classes benefit from full attack level shards the most. their armor's magic defense is already high enough that just with refined ornaments they can reach good mdef. most heavies socket citrines anyway but their armor has good refinement too.
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  • Smobo - Heavens Tear
    Smobo - Heavens Tear Posts: 386 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    since 1 attack level = 1% more damage, a diamond of tiger will be better if:
    1% more damage > +75 phys attack.

    Which means, you would need to have an average base physical attack (pre gems) of 7500 or more, Diamond of Tiger would be better than a garnet gem.
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  • Collapse - Harshlands
    Collapse - Harshlands Posts: 467 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Smobo - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    since 1 attack level = 1% more damage, a diamond of tiger will be better if:
    1% more damage > +75 phys attack.

    Which means, you would need to have an average base physical attack (pre gems) of 7500 or more, Diamond of Tiger would be better than a garnet gem.

    Thats what i thought too, but when i put a Diamond of Tiger in my lunar bow, my damage didnt go up at all. I think the Attack level system is broken TBH. I just recently resharded my weapon with a Garnet Gem and i have 460 more p atk now.
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  • Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver
    Trobneziuq - Dreamweaver Posts: 105 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    lol i thought mana shards gave spikes and blue glow...QUOTE]


    No idea mana thing.. but i have DoT in all my armor and thats what it gives.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ☆Heaven Shatterer +5 w/ 2 Immacs - Build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=e3582a35acbe0b1c
    Physical Atk.: 7544.00 - 11116.00

    ☆Heaven Shatterer +5 w/ 2 Diamond of Tigers - Build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f3e4b9feca4c3445
    Physical Atk.: 7364.40 - 11007.84
    Note: There are no DoTs in pwcalc, so I just increased damage manually by 2%

    Both min and max damage are less with Diamond of Tigers when compared to Immacs.
  • SneakyStalk - Harshlands
    SneakyStalk - Harshlands Posts: 440 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Only thing missing from Elena's post is:

    / end thread
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  • RainZ - Raging Tide
    RainZ - Raging Tide Posts: 231 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    ☆Heaven Shatterer +5 w/ 2 Immacs - Build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=e3582a35acbe0b1c
    Physical Atk.: 7544.00 - 11116.00

    ☆Heaven Shatterer +5 w/ 2 Diamond of Tigers - Build: http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f3e4b9feca4c3445
    Physical Atk.: 7364.40 - 11007.84
    Note: There are no DoTs in pwcalc, so I just increased damage manually by 2%

    Both min and max damage are less with Diamond of Tigers when compared to Immacs.

    Ok so its obvious that garnet> DOT but im actually interested in what Asterelle said later about sharding 24 DOT in the armors.... wats dat do to the attack at end game and is it worth the increase in dmg?
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Basically, you can choose either 24 Immac HP Shards, which is 1200 HP, or 24 Diamonds of Tiger, which is a 24% increase in damage.

    Try it out in http://pwcalc.ru/pwi .
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kind of off-topic, but it made me wonder, how/when exactly do +1/2 def shards get calculated? Is it effective for a light armor user to put them in armor or would it benefit a class with high defenses more, EG wizards/BMs?
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    aster himself, also stated it was only worth it if you had highly refined armor >>; +8 was his specific example.
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  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    Kind of off-topic, but it made me wonder, how/when exactly do +1/2 def shards get calculated? Is it effective for a light armor user to put them in armor or would it benefit a class with high defenses more, EG wizards/BMs?

    You could try restating the amount of HP lost from 24 slots (this depends on what grades you prefer) and using those slots as +24% damage.

    If you're planning on 24 immaculate citrines, then for a Wizard, restat 120 Magic to Vitality. Check the m.attack with +24% damage vs your m.attack without +24% and you can see which is more beneficial.

    If you're planning on for example, 24 perfect citrines, then that's 1488 hp or 149 Vitality points for a Wizard. Repeat the procedure until you're satisfied with what you need to know.

    I was simulating this exact thing for an Archer for an hour in excel, but my PC crashed and I lost all the data... The only thing I remember was with absolute EG gear (+12 everything, full savant stones and a +12 r8 bow) you're sacrificing 1 HP for 2 average DPS (savant vs DoT) i.e not worth the effort of 24x DoT stones at EG.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    i think he was talking about def lvl shards
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  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i think he was talking about def lvl shards

    Oh, oops. =)

    I should L2Read.

    Let me see what I can suggest after re-reading his post.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    For comparing garnet in weapon to diamond of tiger compare to 1% of your WEAPON ATTACK not physical damage since garnets in weapons add weapon attack.
    If you have 2k weapon attack that's like 20 more which is like a beaut garnet I think.

    For comparing dragon to citrine compare to 1% of your unbuffed HP (factor out 5% if you're wearing a demon pearl).

    So if you have 6k hp a defense stone is equivalent to around 60 HP which is a little less than a Perfect Citrine.

    These comparisons are rough and are more valid when you have low att/def levels. Attack levels have diminishing marginal returns while defense is the opposite.
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  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    Kind of off-topic, but it made me wonder, how/when exactly do +1/2 def shards get calculated? Is it effective for a light armor user to put them in armor or would it benefit a class with high defenses more, EG wizards/BMs?

    Ok, now that I learnt how to read...

    The amount of damage you inflict is:

    Damage_raw = (raw skill damage)*((100+offensive buff %)/100)*((100+(A-D))/100))
    Damage_final = (Damage_raw)*((100+-(level difference))/100))*((100-opponent's resistance %)/100)*(other factors)

    So looking at the above, defensive level (D) negates an attack level (A), which could be assumed to reduce whatever raw damage the foe inflicts.

    This means for example if someone can theoretically hit you 100k raw damage, a 1% def level makes that 99k, which then go through resistances and penalties.

    If you take 100k, which becomes 25k in PvP, this becomes (with 80%reduction using LA) 5000 damage.

    If you take 100k with 70% in arcane, that's 7500.

    If you take 99k with 1def level, which is 24750 in PvP @ 80% you receive 4950.

    If you take 76k with 24def level shards, that becomes 19000 which at 80% is 3800.

    If you take 99k with 1def level, which is 24750 in PvP @ 70% you receive 7425.

    If you take 76k with 24def level shards, that becomes 19000 which at 70% is 5700.

    Seems like it benefits lower resistance classes more than high resistance classes, although the survival index is better for a high defense class.
  • DrkLordZ - Sanctuary
    DrkLordZ - Sanctuary Posts: 297 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    no its kinda disapointing but 4 socket vit ston/DOT/DOD armor has no sninyness

    Fully immac critine armor ftw
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  • Aghamyr - Sanctuary
    Aghamyr - Sanctuary Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Something i don't understand, you said you can put like 12 gem on armor ? Isn't the max 4 socket ? Maybe i misunderstand something ^^
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  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Aghamyr - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Something i don't understand, you said you can put like 12 gem on armor ? Isn't the max 4 socket ? Maybe i misunderstand something ^^

    You can put 4 gems on an armor piece.

    There are 6 armor pieces that can have sockets (Helmet, Cape, Chest, Legging, Wrist and Boots).

    6x4 = 24 total armor sockets.
  • Aghamyr - Sanctuary
    Aghamyr - Sanctuary Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Hewwwww ok i see, now i understand ^^
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  • Lady_Seolfor - Dreamweaver
    Lady_Seolfor - Dreamweaver Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    It would be neat tho, if diamonds could be reverse engineered.
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  • Meanpie - Lost City
    Meanpie - Lost City Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Sharding Gear with DoTs is something I wish more archers would be willing to try. One thing end game archers complain about is archers just don't do enough damage to kill anyone. If we get one shot by almost everything anyway then why not just add more attack? In LC DoTs are slightly cheaper than Immac shards, which are what most people who don't spend a lot of money have. 24 Immac shards is an extra 1200 HP. The thing is no one who doesn't spend a lot of money has 24 sockets. I think most people have around 15? So about 15% more damage at the cost of loosing 750 HP might work especially if you can refine all of your armor one more time. Of course the amount of HP you lose by adding DoTs is much higher if you can actually afford better shards.
  • Relakss - Harshlands
    Relakss - Harshlands Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    when i look at 3 sock gear it is 18 sockets i would probably mix vit +10/ defense lvl+2 and and perfect garnets for wep you can get the rest of the hp bonussen from refinements.

    shame pwi calc doesn't have def lvl +2 stones
  • Sint - Harshlands
    Sint - Harshlands Posts: 579 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    if you get all your armor over lvl 13, you can add +2 def (eg armor) on hl, at least, this is fairly cheap (about 7,5mil per shard, as opposed to 15-22 mil for a citrine gem)however, if you manage to fill all of your armor sockets, you should take 48% less dmg. essentially, this should be comparable to adding 96% of your base hp in sockets. if you have about 3k hp, you would be hard pressed to equal this with citrine shards. Also, the 48% dmg reduction allows you to regain hp much faster. in addition to saving money on the shards, your charm, even if it ticks just as often as it would with citrines, ticks for only half the hp, and potting becomes a lot easier, especially if you plan on using instant heals (e.g. second wind / instant 1-4k hp apo pots) or percentual heals (e.g, ToP or 60% apo pots)

    my humble opinion.
  • Relakss - Harshlands
    Relakss - Harshlands Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited April 2010
    Sint - Harshlands wrote: »
    if you get all your armor over lvl 13, you can add +2 def (eg armor) on hl, at least, this is fairly cheap (about 7,5mil per shard, as opposed to 15-22 mil for a citrine gem)however, if you manage to fill all of your armor sockets, you should take 48% less dmg. essentially, this should be comparable to adding 96% of your base hp in sockets. if you have about 3k hp, you would be hard pressed to equal this with citrine shards. Also, the 48% dmg reduction allows you to regain hp much faster. in addition to saving money on the shards, your charm, even if it ticks just as often as it would with citrines, ticks for only half the hp, and potting becomes a lot easier, especially if you plan on using instant heals (e.g. second wind / instant 1-4k hp apo pots) or percentual heals (e.g, ToP or 60% apo pots)

    my humble opinion.

    maybe think of 20 sockets 10 for +2 def 6 vit+10 and 4 citrine gems with tt 99 gear +5 you'll still have over 6 k hp

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=f78c8d2de4b6a113

    the open spots you can fill with +2 def shards


    the only prob you will still have is mag def or does +2 def also counts for mag def??

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