Tideborn Overpowered

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

We all know they are.

Psy has an insane healing ability(grant it there is a big cooldown), but they have some pretty strong reflection and damage reduction skills. I fought a level 6X psy and my hits were killing me from reflection faster than it was killing the psy.

Assassin is just a PK god. Level 8X assassin turned invisible and beat the hell out of me because I couldn't hit it. Barbs have insane hp which we have to get around, but you can't even hit assassins, that is just stupid.

Don't say its because I haven't played one, I have played both to the point I was killing people in duels 30 level higher than me without difficulty. I suggest beefing up the other races because if Tideborn was lowered, everyone would throw a fit that they don't obliterate everything anymore. So beef up the other races somehow to even it out. Like for archer, make the Wingspan skill not need a target to use.

Edit: *Please move this to suggestion box XD*

MANray_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

I agree, there are several balance issues to be resolved concerning tideborn. I don't see the nerf hammer coming down anywhere in the near future however, so in the meantime we'll all have to learn to live with things as they stand now. They really did fumble the ball on this one...

Edit; And on beefing up other classes i would be content if they gave some of us our original capabilities back. Bramble hood got nerfed in PvP but psychs get fully functional reflect...

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

In my opinion they wanted to make a bad **** new race and forgot how bad the other races are in comparison. Like you said, they fumbled it on this one. *Hooray for Superbowl jokes*

Edit to your edit: They should nerf Tideborn to even it out. Boosting all the other races would be too much of a change.

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

Bump to get this moved to Suggestion Box... still...

HitsTwice - Raging Tide · February 2010

I understand what ya are saying, tideborns sometimes to tend to be powerful, but remember that this goes for most characters. Clerics have awesome healing abbilities, wizards do alot of damage at higher levels, Blade Masters do pretty good damage, Barbs have alot of HP, Venomancers have a pet that can help them kill enemies, Archers are great at ranged attacks, and then there is what you said about psychics and assasins. The main thing here is that all classes have their own advantages, thats what makes the game fun.

Barbariankev - Heavens Tear · February 2010

have a good 80+ sin try to kill a good 80+ barb
the barb will win due to high p.def and hp or the sin will stealth and run away

MANray_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

HitsTwice - Raging Tide wrote: »

I understand what ya are saying, tideborns sometimes to tend to be powerful, but remember that this goes for most characters. Clerics have awesome healing abbilities, wizards do alot of damage at higher levels, Blade Masters do pretty good damage, Barbs have alot of HP, Venomancers have a pet that can help them kill enemies, Archers are great at ranged attacks, and then there is what you said about psychics and assasins. The main thing here is that all classes have their own advantages, thats what makes the game fun.

No dude, this is about balance. A sin we've proven on another thread to posses the highest potential dps in game. We're talking near 70k dps, probably around 100k sustainable once you factor skills like Power Dash in. Add to this the fact that they can survive any amount of damage that can be done to them through Deaden Nerves, the ability to stealth out of combat and near HA tanking ability...

It's not that they just have an "advantage". They are overpowered.

Edit; And a properly geared 80+ sin will probably make mince meat out of any barb. Once they get Demon/Sage it will become painfully obvious...

MagicHamsta - Lost City · February 2010

err...
does soulburn even suffer PvP reduction?
b:sweat

Trawne - Lost City · February 2010

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

No dude, this is about balance. A sin we've proven on another thread to posses the highest potential dps in game. We're talking near 70k dps, probably around 100k sustainable once you factor skills like Power Dash in. Add to this the fact that they can survive any amount of damage that can be done to them through Deaden Nerves, the ability to stealth out of combat and near HA tanking ability...

It's not that they just have an "advantage". They are overpowered.

Edit; And a properly geared 80+ sin will probably make mince meat out of any barb. Once they get Demon/Sage it will become painfully obvious...

100K DPS? really? so sins can go into TT and kill bosses in 22 seconds? damn that would be OP b:surrender

Risingson - Lost City · February 2010

LOL.

Oh, a PvE dueller complaining about Tideborn being too powerful. I suggest you go on a PvP server and see if you are as powerful with your Sin and your Psy in actual PvP. Duels mean nothing.

Both Sins and Psys are super-squishy, honest to god. Sins can't face BMs and Barbs, but they can tear up AA and other LA, yeah. But they are still very fragile, especially to magic. I'm Psychic, it takes me 3 hits to kill a Sin. It would probably take two hits with a Wizard, just gotta learn how to deal with em.

And, as a Psychic myself, I know for a fact we fall real easy too. A BM or a Barb my level can take me down in 3 hits too, cuz I'm weak against physical damage. Against Clerics and Wizards, it's a little different but casters-fights are always kind of quick and things happen fast. I've killed Clerics my level, I've killed Wizards my level, and I've been killed by both of my level too.

I'm sorry to say that, but if you managed to kill a char - of any class - 30 levels higher than you, then they either sucked or went afk. Get real, a level 30 can't kill a level 60, and a level 60 can't kill a level 90 unless the latters have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE.

edit : All Souls suffer from PvP reduction, so does Soulburn. I got no idea why you thought that the Souls didn't get reduced. Also, a Sin could never take a Barb, no matter the level. The barb would have like 8k more hp, and probably the same for pdef xD.

AND, Deaden Nerves only covers one hit. Not a thousand.

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

HitsTwice - Raging Tide wrote: »

I understand what ya are saying, tideborns sometimes to tend to be powerful, but remember that this goes for most characters. Clerics have awesome healing abbilities, wizards do alot of damage at higher levels, Blade Masters do pretty good damage, Barbs have alot of HP, Venomancers have a pet that can help them kill enemies, Archers are great at ranged attacks, and then there is what you said about psychics and assasins. The main thing here is that all classes have their own advantages, thats what makes the game fun.

You didn't get the point I guess. For some of us, we can't even hit the assassin. 100% invisible. Psy has no nerfed reflection so it just ****, AND it has damage reduction. Clerics heal spamming is stopped by stun. Wizard has horrible physical defence(arcane) but has high elemental hit, so wiz is like a double edged sword. BM gets stunned or locked and they're done, they have like 1 distance hit. Barbs have alot of hp which can be destroyed with high elemental hits or stunning the hell out of them. Venos have a pet but you can just kill the veno and pet is gone. Archer has amazing range and high damage but 1/2 damage up close and pretty squishy. Assassin you can't even hit. How do you fight that? Assassin has LA armor so they're pretty squishy but between Blood Paint, fast attack, extremely high crit, and 100% invisible, there is no chance.

And to the other post, 80+ barb and 80+ sin would be a good battle, but in the end, sin hits too fast and crits alot. That mixed with any kind of stun and invisible = dead barb.

Aindrias - Sanctuary · February 2010

im an 83 sin and yes i HAVE to say we are overpowered and we need to be nerfed, we do too much against other classes and if our gear gets too good we can take down a lot (i personally almost took down a barb level90) so yes i do have to say we need to have some nerfs done to us and to make another note, no archer has beaten me yet besides tech and thats when i was a 5x sin this is sin talking

HitsTwice - Raging Tide · February 2010

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

No dude, this is about balance. A sin we've proven on another thread to posses the highest potential dps in game. We're talking near 70k dps, probably around 100k sustainable once you factor skills like Power Dash in. Add to this the fact that they can survive any amount of damage that can be done to them through Deaden Nerves, the ability to stealth out of combat and near HA tanking ability...

It's not that they just have an "advantage". They are overpowered.

Edit; And a properly geared 80+ sin will probably make mince meat out of any barb. Once they get Demon/Sage it will become painfully obvious...

Oh thats what u meant lol thought u were talking about their advantages. Well Im not sure about tideborns being over powered but if they are Im sure the game develepors will work to balance this out.

Technotic - Sanctuary · February 2010

HitsTwice - Raging Tide wrote: »

Oh thats what u meant lol thought u were talking about their advantages. Well Im not sure about tideborns being over powered but if they are Im sure the game develepors will work to balance this out.

Where have you been the entire thread? XD

Why isn't this in suggestion box yet?

HitsTwice - Raging Tide · February 2010

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

You didn't get the point I guess. For some of us, we can't even hit the assassin. 100% invisible. Psy has no nerfed reflection so it just ****, AND it has damage reduction. Clerics heal spamming is stopped by stun. Wizard has horrible physical defence(arcane) but has high elemental hit, so wiz is like a double edged sword. BM gets stunned or locked and they're done, they have like 1 distance hit. Barbs have alot of hp which can be destroyed with high elemental hits or stunning the hell out of them. Venos have a pet but you can just kill the veno and pet is gone. Archer has amazing range and high damage but 1/2 damage up close and pretty squishy. Assassin you can't even hit. How do you fight that? Assassin has LA armor so they're pretty squishy but between Blood Paint, fast attack, extremely high crit, and 100% invisible, there is no chance.

And to the other post, 80+ barb and 80+ sin would be a good battle, but in the end, sin hits too fast and crits alot. That mixed with any kind of stun and invisible = dead barb.

I mentioned advantages but good point about the diss advantages. All classes have good and bad points, and like i said before if tideborns are over powered the game develepors will likely fix it.

Aindrias - Sanctuary · February 2010

you know we are super squishy too

MagicHamsta - Lost City · February 2010

Aindrias - Sanctuary wrote: »

you know we are super squishy too

ya....
25% chance to resist any and all damage be squishy.
o and the self revive with 20% life back.
b:sweat

me think they should lower the % on the chance to resist attacks.

MANray_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

HitsTwice - Raging Tide wrote: »

I mentioned advantages but good point about the diss advantages. All classes have good and bad points, and like i said before if tideborns are over powered the game develepors will likely fix it.

Yea, devs have a terrific record when it comes to ingame balance... b:bye

Isala - Sanctuary · February 2010

You know... I'm going to get flamed for this... But duels mean nothing for determining the power of a class. "Liek OMG, I totally PWN'd this Brab in a dool!!11eleven!" Yeah... In a real fight, the barb would have a charm, would be using pots, and you'd get bent over the nearest object and violated. I can defeat barbs in duels, but those same barbs whoop my **** in PK mode.

As for squishy classes? Sins are physical attackers. OF COURSE they're going to poke holes in the squishies... As for an Archer getting beaten down by a Sin? Durrrrr. Ya think? You guys are the sniper class, not the hit taking class. The only difference between you and a caster is you wear cardboard instead of paper.

Now... VS Psychics? Let's compare them to the closest class... The wizard. The only real differences? A. No fire damage, B. An AoE heal as opposed to a single target. A caster is a caster is a caster. Be it Wizard, or Cleric, or Psychic, I think we're all aware of the fact that, hey... MAGIC HURTS!

Basically, what this all sums up as is this. "OMG! There's liek, these totalllllllllllllllly new classes! No1 has written a guide to liek, pwnzor them yet... They must be OP!!1111Eleven. PANIC AND NERF!!!! roflcoptor."

For those of you who didn't read all that, I'll give you a summary..... LRN2PLAY, STFU, and realize there's actually a thing called balance in this game. That means.... YOU'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO LOSE SOMETIMES!

DorkFish - Sanctuary · February 2010

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

We all know they are.

Psy has an insane healing ability(grant it there is a big cooldown), but they have some pretty strong reflection and damage reduction skills. I fought a level 6X psy and my hits were killing me from reflection faster than it was killing the psy.

Assassin is just a PK god. Level 8X assassin turned invisible and beat the hell out of me because I couldn't hit it. Barbs have insane hp which we have to get around, but you can't even hit assassins, that is just stupid.

Don't say its because I haven't played one, I have played both to the point I was killing people in duels 30 level higher than me without difficulty. I suggest beefing up the other races because if Tideborn was lowered, everyone would throw a fit that they don't obliterate everything anymore. So beef up the other races somehow to even it out. Like for archer, make the Wingspan skill not need a target to use.

Edit: *Please move this to suggestion box XD*

Of course we are. How do you think I snuck up on you and one shot you yesterday?

~S

MANray_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

You know... I'm going to get flamed for this... But duels mean nothing for determining the power of a class. "Liek OMG, I totally PWN'd this Brab in a dool!!11eleven!" Yeah... In a real fight, the barb would have a charm, would be using pots, and you'd get bent over the nearest object and violated. I can defeat barbs in duels, but those same barbs whoop my **** in PK mode.

As for squishy classes? Sins are physical attackers. OF COURSE they're going to poke holes in the squishies... As for an Archer getting beaten down by a Sin? Durrrrr. Ya think? You guys are the sniper class, not the hit taking class. The only difference between you and a caster is you wear cardboard instead of paper.

Now... VS Psychics? Let's compare them to the closest class... The wizard. The only real differences? A. No fire damage, B. An AoE heal as opposed to a single target. A caster is a caster is a caster. Be it Wizard, or Cleric, or Psychic, I think we're all aware of the fact that, hey... MAGIC HURTS!

Basically, what this all sums up as is this. "OMG! There's liek, these totalllllllllllllllly new classes! No1 has written a guide to liek, pwnzor them yet... They must be OP!!1111Eleven. PANIC AND NERF!!!! roflcoptor."

For those of you who didn't read all that, I'll give you a summary..... LRN2PLAY, STFU, and realize there's actually a thing called balance in this game. That means.... YOU'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO LOSE SOMETIMES!

Yes, duels are a joke and only noobs consider it anything resembling pvp. That's not the point. If you think a sin's damage output (potentially much more above traditional DD classes) is balanced with it's survival skills (that makes veno look as a class without options) then it's you who should learn to play. STFU is far from a sound argument and if you want to turn this into something personal personal i'm certainly willing to oblige.

You see, some of us remember back when you were a wet behind the ears poster trying to defend a fail build. At least you weren't a conformist like you became once you turned into an herc cleric. Really, where are you coming from that you think your opinion alone can settle a discussion without arguments?

Saitada - Sanctuary · February 2010

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Yes, duels are a joke and only noobs consider it anything resembling pvp. That's not the point. If you think a sin's damage output (potentially much more above traditional DD classes) is balanced with it's survival skills (that makes veno look as a class without options) then it's you who should learn to play. STFU is far from a sound argument and if you want to turn this into something personal personal i'm certainly willing to oblige.

You see, some of us remember back when you were a wet behind the ears poster trying to defend a fail build. At least you weren't a conformist like you became once you turned into an herc cleric. Really, where are you coming from that you think your opinion alone can settle a discussion without arguments?

My opinion is the only one that matters. Your's doesn't matter, Isala's doesn't matter, Technotics doesn't matter, even Kantorek's doesn't matter. Your opinion will be duly considered as a potential source of new data, but ultimately, it doesn't matter because the only opinion that matters is mine.

Just like for you, the only opinion that matters is your own. Even if it is wrong because it isn't mine.

~Saitada

Risingson - Lost City · February 2010

You do realize that, as fancy as the DD ability of Sins sounds, it would merely do nothing if they couldn't handle a hit from a caster.

I mean, take a 90+ Sin and a 90+ Wizard, I'm pretty sure a single spell from the Wizard could kill the Sin. Deaden Nerves balances that. As for invisibility, I believe there are apothecary pots that raise your awareness level enough to allow you to see a same-lvled Sin.

MANray_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »

My opinion is the only one that matters. Your's doesn't matter, Isala's doesn't matter, Technotics doesn't matter, even Kantorek's doesn't matter. Your opinion will be duly considered as a potential source of new data, but ultimately, it doesn't matter because the only opinion that matters is mine.

Just like for you, the only opinion that matters is your own. Even if it is wrong because it isn't mine.

~Saitada

As nasty as you can be i've never known you to try and impose your point of view in a discussion. Argue yes, and perhaps even using sometimes questionable methods. That's what forums are meant for however. l2play and STFU is quite a different scenario.

MagicHamsta - Lost City · February 2010

Risingson - Lost City wrote: »

As for invisibility, I believe there are apothecary pots that raise your awareness level enough to allow you to see a same-lvled Sin.

they don't exist.
b:surrender
they only work for assassins to see other assassins...
since all other classes has an awareness level of 0.....
also those pots can only be manufactured by those that hold teh Tideborn starter city of Raging Tide. b:surrender

MANray_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

Risingson - Lost City wrote: »

You do realize that, as fancy as the DD ability of Sins sounds, it would merely do nothing if they couldn't handle a hit from a caster.

I mean, take a 90+ Sin and a 90+ Wizard, I'm pretty sure a single spell from the Wizard could kill the Sin. Deaden Nerves balances that. As for invisibility, I believe there are apothecary pots that raise your awareness level enough to allow you to see a same-lvled Sin.

A 90+ properly skilled sin will never be seen by the wizard and can survive whatever's thrown at him, using Deaden Nerves, before retreating back into stealth...

Saitada - Sanctuary · February 2010

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

As nasty as you can be i've never known you to try and impose your point of view in a discussion. Argue yes, and perhaps even using sometimes questionable methods. That's what forums are meant for however. l2play and STFU is quite a different scenario.

Grinz, what I was saying is we each have an opinion about things, and while others information may (or may not) be considered to adjust our own opinions, we generally consider our own the correct one and don't consider others as anything other than a source of amusement, or additional data to adjust our own.

But I do get what your saying.

~S

Maiya - Lost City · February 2010

Technotic - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wizard has horrible physical defence(arcane)

b:surrender

Risingson - Lost City · February 2010

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

A 90+ properly skilled sin will never be seen by the wizard and can survive whatever's thrown at him, using Deaden Nerves, before retreating back into stealth...

No, he could survive ONE spell. Once you take a hit that would have killed you with Deaden Nerves on, it goes away. the next lethal skill will indeed take you to the ground.

As for the pots, a Cleric friend of mine has them. I have no idea how he got them, I should ask, but I'm pretty sure anyone can get em. The Sin's awareness thingy isn't a pot it's one of their skills too.

MANray_ - Sanctuary · February 2010

Risingson - Lost City wrote: »

No, he could survive ONE spell. Once you take a hit that would have killed you with Deaden Nerves on, it goes away. the next lethal skill will indeed take you to the ground.

As for the pots, a Cleric friend of mine has them. I have no idea how he got them, I should ask, but I'm pretty sure anyone can get em. The Sin's awareness thingy isn't a pot it's one of their skills too.

And how many hits a sin at melee range is likely to take from a wizzie? You seem to be missing the point that none of the traditional DD classes have survival skills on par with assasins.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · February 2010

I agree with OP. Assassin shouldn't be allowed to switch to invisible mode till combat at least.

We all have make petition. Or least send every week 1 complain ticket.

Tideborn Overpowered

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