Tideborn Overpowered

Technotic - Sanctuary
Technotic - Sanctuary Posts: 591 Arc User
edited February 2010 in Chronicles
We all know they are.

Psy has an insane healing ability(grant it there is a big cooldown), but they have some pretty strong reflection and damage reduction skills. I fought a level 6X psy and my hits were killing me from reflection faster than it was killing the psy.

Assassin is just a PK god. Level 8X assassin turned invisible and beat the hell out of me because I couldn't hit it. Barbs have insane hp which we have to get around, but you can't even hit assassins, that is just stupid.

Don't say its because I haven't played one, I have played both to the point I was killing people in duels 30 level higher than me without difficulty. I suggest beefing up the other races because if Tideborn was lowered, everyone would throw a fit that they don't obliterate everything anymore. So beef up the other races somehow to even it out. Like for archer, make the Wingspan skill not need a target to use.

Edit: *Please move this to suggestion box XD*
Say my name 3 times, I dare you.

~Technotic
TrueMyths.Guildplex.com
Post edited by Technotic - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree, there are several balance issues to be resolved concerning tideborn. I don't see the nerf hammer coming down anywhere in the near future however, so in the meantime we'll all have to learn to live with things as they stand now. They really did fumble the ball on this one...

    Edit; And on beefing up other classes i would be content if they gave some of us our original capabilities back. Bramble hood got nerfed in PvP but psychs get fully functional reflect...
  • Technotic - Sanctuary
    Technotic - Sanctuary Posts: 591 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    In my opinion they wanted to make a bad **** new race and forgot how bad the other races are in comparison. Like you said, they fumbled it on this one. *Hooray for Superbowl jokes*

    Edit to your edit: They should nerf Tideborn to even it out. Boosting all the other races would be too much of a change.
    Say my name 3 times, I dare you.

    ~Technotic
    TrueMyths.Guildplex.com
  • Technotic - Sanctuary
    Technotic - Sanctuary Posts: 591 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Bump to get this moved to Suggestion Box... still...
    Say my name 3 times, I dare you.

    ~Technotic
    TrueMyths.Guildplex.com
  • HitsTwice - Raging Tide
    HitsTwice - Raging Tide Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I understand what ya are saying, tideborns sometimes to tend to be powerful, but remember that this goes for most characters. Clerics have awesome healing abbilities, wizards do alot of damage at higher levels, Blade Masters do pretty good damage, Barbs have alot of HP, Venomancers have a pet that can help them kill enemies, Archers are great at ranged attacks, and then there is what you said about psychics and assasins. The main thing here is that all classes have their own advantages, thats what makes the game fun.
    Native Pride
  • Barbariankev - Heavens Tear
    Barbariankev - Heavens Tear Posts: 831 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    have a good 80+ sin try to kill a good 80+ barb
    the barb will win due to high p.def and hp or the sin will stealth and run away
    its impossible to always do the right thing we all make mistakes i am not different from that
    just try to be a good person

    english isn't my native language so there might be a few spelling/grammatical errors in my posts
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I understand what ya are saying, tideborns sometimes to tend to be powerful, but remember that this goes for most characters. Clerics have awesome healing abbilities, wizards do alot of damage at higher levels, Blade Masters do pretty good damage, Barbs have alot of HP, Venomancers have a pet that can help them kill enemies, Archers are great at ranged attacks, and then there is what you said about psychics and assasins. The main thing here is that all classes have their own advantages, thats what makes the game fun.

    No dude, this is about balance. A sin we've proven on another thread to posses the highest potential dps in game. We're talking near 70k dps, probably around 100k sustainable once you factor skills like Power Dash in. Add to this the fact that they can survive any amount of damage that can be done to them through Deaden Nerves, the ability to stealth out of combat and near HA tanking ability...

    It's not that they just have an "advantage". They are overpowered.

    Edit; And a properly geared 80+ sin will probably make mince meat out of any barb. Once they get Demon/Sage it will become painfully obvious...
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    err...
    does soulburn even suffer PvP reduction?
    b:sweat
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  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    No dude, this is about balance. A sin we've proven on another thread to posses the highest potential dps in game. We're talking near 70k dps, probably around 100k sustainable once you factor skills like Power Dash in. Add to this the fact that they can survive any amount of damage that can be done to them through Deaden Nerves, the ability to stealth out of combat and near HA tanking ability...

    It's not that they just have an "advantage". They are overpowered.

    Edit; And a properly geared 80+ sin will probably make mince meat out of any barb. Once they get Demon/Sage it will become painfully obvious...

    100K DPS? really? so sins can go into TT and kill bosses in 22 seconds? damn that would be OP b:surrender
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Risingson - Lost City
    Risingson - Lost City Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    LOL.

    Oh, a PvE dueller complaining about Tideborn being too powerful. I suggest you go on a PvP server and see if you are as powerful with your Sin and your Psy in actual PvP. Duels mean nothing.

    Both Sins and Psys are super-squishy, honest to god. Sins can't face BMs and Barbs, but they can tear up AA and other LA, yeah. But they are still very fragile, especially to magic. I'm Psychic, it takes me 3 hits to kill a Sin. It would probably take two hits with a Wizard, just gotta learn how to deal with em.

    And, as a Psychic myself, I know for a fact we fall real easy too. A BM or a Barb my level can take me down in 3 hits too, cuz I'm weak against physical damage. Against Clerics and Wizards, it's a little different but casters-fights are always kind of quick and things happen fast. I've killed Clerics my level, I've killed Wizards my level, and I've been killed by both of my level too.

    I'm sorry to say that, but if you managed to kill a char - of any class - 30 levels higher than you, then they either sucked or went afk. Get real, a level 30 can't kill a level 60, and a level 60 can't kill a level 90 unless the latters have ABSOLUTELY NO CLUE.

    edit : All Souls suffer from PvP reduction, so does Soulburn. I got no idea why you thought that the Souls didn't get reduced. Also, a Sin could never take a Barb, no matter the level. The barb would have like 8k more hp, and probably the same for pdef xD.

    AND, Deaden Nerves only covers one hit. Not a thousand.
    Risingson - 7x Psychic
    Indalecio - 3x Cleric
  • Technotic - Sanctuary
    Technotic - Sanctuary Posts: 591 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I understand what ya are saying, tideborns sometimes to tend to be powerful, but remember that this goes for most characters. Clerics have awesome healing abbilities, wizards do alot of damage at higher levels, Blade Masters do pretty good damage, Barbs have alot of HP, Venomancers have a pet that can help them kill enemies, Archers are great at ranged attacks, and then there is what you said about psychics and assasins. The main thing here is that all classes have their own advantages, thats what makes the game fun.

    You didn't get the point I guess. For some of us, we can't even hit the assassin. 100% invisible. Psy has no nerfed reflection so it just ****, AND it has damage reduction. Clerics heal spamming is stopped by stun. Wizard has horrible physical defence(arcane) but has high elemental hit, so wiz is like a double edged sword. BM gets stunned or locked and they're done, they have like 1 distance hit. Barbs have alot of hp which can be destroyed with high elemental hits or stunning the hell out of them. Venos have a pet but you can just kill the veno and pet is gone. Archer has amazing range and high damage but 1/2 damage up close and pretty squishy. Assassin you can't even hit. How do you fight that? Assassin has LA armor so they're pretty squishy but between Blood Paint, fast attack, extremely high crit, and 100% invisible, there is no chance.

    And to the other post, 80+ barb and 80+ sin would be a good battle, but in the end, sin hits too fast and crits alot. That mixed with any kind of stun and invisible = dead barb.
    Say my name 3 times, I dare you.

    ~Technotic
    TrueMyths.Guildplex.com
  • Aindrias - Sanctuary
    Aindrias - Sanctuary Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    im an 83 sin and yes i HAVE to say we are overpowered and we need to be nerfed, we do too much against other classes and if our gear gets too good we can take down a lot (i personally almost took down a barb level90) so yes i do have to say we need to have some nerfs done to us and to make another note, no archer has beaten me yet besides tech and thats when i was a 5x sin this is sin talking
    [SIGPIC]http://www.siglaunch.com/sigs/any/2/7/7/1/3/2627713LpOLv.png[/SIGPIC]

    I am an Assassin short and stout, Here is my dagger I'll make you spout, When I watch your blood gush I scream and shout, Run you noob or I'll QQ you out. :3
  • HitsTwice - Raging Tide
    HitsTwice - Raging Tide Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    No dude, this is about balance. A sin we've proven on another thread to posses the highest potential dps in game. We're talking near 70k dps, probably around 100k sustainable once you factor skills like Power Dash in. Add to this the fact that they can survive any amount of damage that can be done to them through Deaden Nerves, the ability to stealth out of combat and near HA tanking ability...

    It's not that they just have an "advantage". They are overpowered.

    Edit; And a properly geared 80+ sin will probably make mince meat out of any barb. Once they get Demon/Sage it will become painfully obvious...

    Oh thats what u meant lol thought u were talking about their advantages. Well Im not sure about tideborns being over powered but if they are Im sure the game develepors will work to balance this out.
    Native Pride
  • Technotic - Sanctuary
    Technotic - Sanctuary Posts: 591 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Oh thats what u meant lol thought u were talking about their advantages. Well Im not sure about tideborns being over powered but if they are Im sure the game develepors will work to balance this out.

    Where have you been the entire thread? XD

    Why isn't this in suggestion box yet?
    Say my name 3 times, I dare you.

    ~Technotic
    TrueMyths.Guildplex.com
  • HitsTwice - Raging Tide
    HitsTwice - Raging Tide Posts: 140 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You didn't get the point I guess. For some of us, we can't even hit the assassin. 100% invisible. Psy has no nerfed reflection so it just ****, AND it has damage reduction. Clerics heal spamming is stopped by stun. Wizard has horrible physical defence(arcane) but has high elemental hit, so wiz is like a double edged sword. BM gets stunned or locked and they're done, they have like 1 distance hit. Barbs have alot of hp which can be destroyed with high elemental hits or stunning the hell out of them. Venos have a pet but you can just kill the veno and pet is gone. Archer has amazing range and high damage but 1/2 damage up close and pretty squishy. Assassin you can't even hit. How do you fight that? Assassin has LA armor so they're pretty squishy but between Blood Paint, fast attack, extremely high crit, and 100% invisible, there is no chance.

    And to the other post, 80+ barb and 80+ sin would be a good battle, but in the end, sin hits too fast and crits alot. That mixed with any kind of stun and invisible = dead barb.

    I mentioned advantages but good point about the diss advantages. All classes have good and bad points, and like i said before if tideborns are over powered the game develepors will likely fix it.
    Native Pride
  • Aindrias - Sanctuary
    Aindrias - Sanctuary Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    you know we are super squishy too
    [SIGPIC]http://www.siglaunch.com/sigs/any/2/7/7/1/3/2627713LpOLv.png[/SIGPIC]

    I am an Assassin short and stout, Here is my dagger I'll make you spout, When I watch your blood gush I scream and shout, Run you noob or I'll QQ you out. :3
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    you know we are super squishy too

    ya....
    25% chance to resist any and all damage be squishy.
    o and the self revive with 20% life back.
    b:sweat

    me think they should lower the % on the chance to resist attacks.
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  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I mentioned advantages but good point about the diss advantages. All classes have good and bad points, and like i said before if tideborns are over powered the game develepors will likely fix it.

    Yea, devs have a terrific record when it comes to ingame balance... b:bye
  • Isala - Sanctuary
    Isala - Sanctuary Posts: 1,607 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You know... I'm going to get flamed for this... But duels mean nothing for determining the power of a class. "Liek OMG, I totally PWN'd this Brab in a dool!!11eleven!" Yeah... In a real fight, the barb would have a charm, would be using pots, and you'd get bent over the nearest object and violated. I can defeat barbs in duels, but those same barbs whoop my **** in PK mode.

    As for squishy classes? Sins are physical attackers. OF COURSE they're going to poke holes in the squishies... As for an Archer getting beaten down by a Sin? Durrrrr. Ya think? You guys are the sniper class, not the hit taking class. The only difference between you and a caster is you wear cardboard instead of paper.

    Now... VS Psychics? Let's compare them to the closest class... The wizard. The only real differences? A. No fire damage, B. An AoE heal as opposed to a single target. A caster is a caster is a caster. Be it Wizard, or Cleric, or Psychic, I think we're all aware of the fact that, hey... MAGIC HURTS!

    Basically, what this all sums up as is this. "OMG! There's liek, these totalllllllllllllllly new classes! No1 has written a guide to liek, pwnzor them yet... They must be OP!!1111Eleven. PANIC AND NERF!!!! roflcoptor."



    For those of you who didn't read all that, I'll give you a summary..... LRN2PLAY, STFU, and realize there's actually a thing called balance in this game. That means.... YOU'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO LOSE SOMETIMES!
  • DorkFish - Sanctuary
    DorkFish - Sanctuary Posts: 176 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    We all know they are.

    Psy has an insane healing ability(grant it there is a big cooldown), but they have some pretty strong reflection and damage reduction skills. I fought a level 6X psy and my hits were killing me from reflection faster than it was killing the psy.

    Assassin is just a PK god. Level 8X assassin turned invisible and beat the hell out of me because I couldn't hit it. Barbs have insane hp which we have to get around, but you can't even hit assassins, that is just stupid.

    Don't say its because I haven't played one, I have played both to the point I was killing people in duels 30 level higher than me without difficulty. I suggest beefing up the other races because if Tideborn was lowered, everyone would throw a fit that they don't obliterate everything anymore. So beef up the other races somehow to even it out. Like for archer, make the Wingspan skill not need a target to use.

    Edit: *Please move this to suggestion box XD*

    Of course we are. How do you think I snuck up on you and one shot you yesterday?

    ~S
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You know... I'm going to get flamed for this... But duels mean nothing for determining the power of a class. "Liek OMG, I totally PWN'd this Brab in a dool!!11eleven!" Yeah... In a real fight, the barb would have a charm, would be using pots, and you'd get bent over the nearest object and violated. I can defeat barbs in duels, but those same barbs whoop my **** in PK mode.

    As for squishy classes? Sins are physical attackers. OF COURSE they're going to poke holes in the squishies... As for an Archer getting beaten down by a Sin? Durrrrr. Ya think? You guys are the sniper class, not the hit taking class. The only difference between you and a caster is you wear cardboard instead of paper.

    Now... VS Psychics? Let's compare them to the closest class... The wizard. The only real differences? A. No fire damage, B. An AoE heal as opposed to a single target. A caster is a caster is a caster. Be it Wizard, or Cleric, or Psychic, I think we're all aware of the fact that, hey... MAGIC HURTS!

    Basically, what this all sums up as is this. "OMG! There's liek, these totalllllllllllllllly new classes! No1 has written a guide to liek, pwnzor them yet... They must be OP!!1111Eleven. PANIC AND NERF!!!! roflcoptor."



    For those of you who didn't read all that, I'll give you a summary..... LRN2PLAY, STFU, and realize there's actually a thing called balance in this game. That means.... YOU'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO LOSE SOMETIMES!

    Yes, duels are a joke and only noobs consider it anything resembling pvp. That's not the point. If you think a sin's damage output (potentially much more above traditional DD classes) is balanced with it's survival skills (that makes veno look as a class without options) then it's you who should learn to play. STFU is far from a sound argument and if you want to turn this into something personal personal i'm certainly willing to oblige.

    You see, some of us remember back when you were a wet behind the ears poster trying to defend a fail build. At least you weren't a conformist like you became once you turned into an herc cleric. Really, where are you coming from that you think your opinion alone can settle a discussion without arguments?
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yes, duels are a joke and only noobs consider it anything resembling pvp. That's not the point. If you think a sin's damage output (potentially much more above traditional DD classes) is balanced with it's survival skills (that makes veno look as a class without options) then it's you who should learn to play. STFU is far from a sound argument and if you want to turn this into something personal personal i'm certainly willing to oblige.

    You see, some of us remember back when you were a wet behind the ears poster trying to defend a fail build. At least you weren't a conformist like you became once you turned into an herc cleric. Really, where are you coming from that you think your opinion alone can settle a discussion without arguments?

    My opinion is the only one that matters. Your's doesn't matter, Isala's doesn't matter, Technotics doesn't matter, even Kantorek's doesn't matter. Your opinion will be duly considered as a potential source of new data, but ultimately, it doesn't matter because the only opinion that matters is mine.

    Just like for you, the only opinion that matters is your own. Even if it is wrong because it isn't mine.

    ~Saitada
  • Risingson - Lost City
    Risingson - Lost City Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You do realize that, as fancy as the DD ability of Sins sounds, it would merely do nothing if they couldn't handle a hit from a caster.

    I mean, take a 90+ Sin and a 90+ Wizard, I'm pretty sure a single spell from the Wizard could kill the Sin. Deaden Nerves balances that. As for invisibility, I believe there are apothecary pots that raise your awareness level enough to allow you to see a same-lvled Sin.
    Risingson - 7x Psychic
    Indalecio - 3x Cleric
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    My opinion is the only one that matters. Your's doesn't matter, Isala's doesn't matter, Technotics doesn't matter, even Kantorek's doesn't matter. Your opinion will be duly considered as a potential source of new data, but ultimately, it doesn't matter because the only opinion that matters is mine.

    Just like for you, the only opinion that matters is your own. Even if it is wrong because it isn't mine.

    ~Saitada

    As nasty as you can be i've never known you to try and impose your point of view in a discussion. Argue yes, and perhaps even using sometimes questionable methods. That's what forums are meant for however. l2play and STFU is quite a different scenario.
  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    As for invisibility, I believe there are apothecary pots that raise your awareness level enough to allow you to see a same-lvled Sin.

    they don't exist.
    b:surrender
    they only work for assassins to see other assassins...
    since all other classes has an awareness level of 0.....
    also those pots can only be manufactured by those that hold teh Tideborn starter city of Raging Tide. b:surrender
    darthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
    Hawk:Do this. closing thread
    frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
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    Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
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    58% chance to get tokens
    41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
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  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You do realize that, as fancy as the DD ability of Sins sounds, it would merely do nothing if they couldn't handle a hit from a caster.

    I mean, take a 90+ Sin and a 90+ Wizard, I'm pretty sure a single spell from the Wizard could kill the Sin. Deaden Nerves balances that. As for invisibility, I believe there are apothecary pots that raise your awareness level enough to allow you to see a same-lvled Sin.

    A 90+ properly skilled sin will never be seen by the wizard and can survive whatever's thrown at him, using Deaden Nerves, before retreating back into stealth...
  • Saitada - Sanctuary
    Saitada - Sanctuary Posts: 3,220 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    As nasty as you can be i've never known you to try and impose your point of view in a discussion. Argue yes, and perhaps even using sometimes questionable methods. That's what forums are meant for however. l2play and STFU is quite a different scenario.

    Grinz, what I was saying is we each have an opinion about things, and while others information may (or may not) be considered to adjust our own opinions, we generally consider our own the correct one and don't consider others as anything other than a source of amusement, or additional data to adjust our own.

    But I do get what your saying.

    ~S
  • Maiya - Lost City
    Maiya - Lost City Posts: 2,686 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Wizard has horrible physical defence(arcane)

    b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Risingson - Lost City
    Risingson - Lost City Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    A 90+ properly skilled sin will never be seen by the wizard and can survive whatever's thrown at him, using Deaden Nerves, before retreating back into stealth...

    No, he could survive ONE spell. Once you take a hit that would have killed you with Deaden Nerves on, it goes away. the next lethal skill will indeed take you to the ground.

    As for the pots, a Cleric friend of mine has them. I have no idea how he got them, I should ask, but I'm pretty sure anyone can get em. The Sin's awareness thingy isn't a pot it's one of their skills too.
    Risingson - 7x Psychic
    Indalecio - 3x Cleric
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    No, he could survive ONE spell. Once you take a hit that would have killed you with Deaden Nerves on, it goes away. the next lethal skill will indeed take you to the ground.

    As for the pots, a Cleric friend of mine has them. I have no idea how he got them, I should ask, but I'm pretty sure anyone can get em. The Sin's awareness thingy isn't a pot it's one of their skills too.

    And how many hits a sin at melee range is likely to take from a wizzie? You seem to be missing the point that none of the traditional DD classes have survival skills on par with assasins.
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I agree with OP. Assassin shouldn't be allowed to switch to invisible mode till combat at least.

    We all have make petition. Or least send every week 1 complain ticket.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]