a Sins potential endgame DPS.

24

Comments

  • Phoenix - Dreamweaver
    Phoenix - Dreamweaver Posts: 237 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Recasted Nirvana daggers can spawn with Sacrifical Strike. I don't think you can get -0.1 interval on them, though, only -0.05, but I'd take Sacrificial strike over -0.05 interval, anyway...they'd make for some beastly damage numbers on some of our skills.
    [SIGPIC]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/phoenix_blade/sig.jpg[/SIGPIC]
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    BurningShock - Harshlands wrote: »
    I got into an argument with Elenacostal (an archer) about this, it turns out its not increase attack spped, but really decrease attack duration. It may be a translation error, this site has everything you ever need to know on the matter http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=279561

    P.S. don't argue with the archers... it never ends well

    thanks for posting the math i was to lazy to point out

    also 5 aps is the fist weapon animation cap nobody has cofirmed a darrger cap yet and considering fist = simpleist animation in pwi vs dagger flash as hell it may be considerably lower
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    the animation of daggers and fist are basically the same... it is not considerably lower. just look at the animation for it lol.

    why is it u guys just continue to not accept a sin cant get the same atk speed as a fist BM even when the evidence is sitting right in your face? they been capable of it since expansion hit but ppl just refuse to except it.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    the animation of daggers and fist are basically the same... it is not considerably lower. just look at the animation for it lol.

    why is it u guys just continue to not accept a sin cant get the same atk speed as a fist BM even when the evidence is sitting right in your face? they been capable of it since expansion hit but ppl just refuse to except it.

    make...the...char

    record it

    then post aproximate cost of gear and a realistic way for a player to get it shrot of buying it from CS

    i see this as a "lets spen a ton of cash to do somthing none of my classes skills where ment for" exercise

    its nice but you could probly spend the same amount +12 those daggers chill and 1 shot things
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    thats actually kind of funny considering how expensive it is to get 5atk/sec on a fist BM lol. also whats stoping a sin from using there skills even once the get 5atk/sec?

    that is extremly biased seeing as ppl will easily spend w/e ammount of money to make there char better at endgame.

    and all a sin rly needs is nirvana and rakn 8 chest which is no more diffrent then a BM getting rank 8 gear at endgame. infact rank 8 is what almost all classes aim for once they are 100+ so why shouldnt sins spend some money on it?

    the only diffrence between a sin getting 5atk/sec and a fist BM getting 5atk/sec is that a sin might have to spend little extra to get that -0.1 interval.


    honestly this sounds way to similar to when fist BMs were first brought up as a potential build. honestly the argument has now come down to "well sins may get 5atk/sec but there dagger atk animations might be considerably slower then a fist BMs atk animation".

    after thats been proven wrong whats the next argument? that fist BMs have a skill to get 100% crit rate for a few seconds lol? or will it be the price of getting 5atk/sec for a sin being way to expensive to be realistic even tho is not much diffrent from how expensive it is for a fist bm to get 5 atk/sec?

    honestly i LOVE fist BMs, but it seems some of the more hardcore fist BM fanatics are having a tough time in realizing that a sin can out DPS fist BMs by meleeing and still be insanely good pvpers and spikers with there skills at the same time.

    just because a sin can out DPS a fist BM will that mean they will replace them? hell no. a BM has far to many uses to be replaced by anyone.

    and just to make ppl feel better, even tho a sin can out DPS a fist BM they will never be able to maintain that DPS AND tank at the same time. a fist BM can tank because of HA and various other P def buff skills a BM has AND get 5atk/sec at the same time. a sin can not do this. they are to squishy and have no P def buffs to help them out (altho blood paint+ high critical rate + 5atk/sec might prove to be godly but not enought to tank as efficiently as a BM). so hope that makes ppl feel better even tho they shouldnt be feeling down in the first place...

    but imho it shoudnt be a fight between the 2. a fist BM and a sin both acheiving 5 atk/sec and they work together they will be an almost unstoppable force. just imagine 2 DPS machines together like that + blood paint for added survivability. it will be insane and they will cut down bosses like no tommorow.

    theres been a few fist BMs able to solo intances like TT in under 50 mins. so imagine if they took a sin with them that has 5atk/sec aswell. bloodpaint rly will prove to be awesome with high crits and 5atk/sec speeds and it will cut there boss killing time almost in half.
  • Death_Tide - Heavens Tear
    Death_Tide - Heavens Tear Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Well in all honesty the high atk rate build is probably the only build atm that will be able to take down HA users quick enough rather than poking them with deep chilled skills one at a time.

    Who knows when the developers will actually give them the 79/demon/sage skill :irritated
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    will be cost effective aswell compared to the skilling method. but u can easily combine that high atk speed with skills like wolf emblem, power dash for that extra 40% crit rate boost and subsea strike for 30% amp dmg. even HA chars will have a tought time dealing with all of that no matter how u look it. especially if u have skills like tangling mire or thunderstorm to back u up.

    people honestly think way to little of both the assassin and psychic class. i have no idea why ppl cant seem to see or grasp the potential these 2 classes have. but they are in that "prove your worth" phase so i guess in a few more months ppl will lighten up on them.

    after all fist BMs and wizzards went thru this same phase at one point lol.
  • Death_Tide - Heavens Tear
    Death_Tide - Heavens Tear Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    will be cost effective aswell compared to the skilling method. but u can easily combine that high atk speed with skills like wolf emblem, power dash for that extra 40% crit rate boost and subsea strike for 30% amp dmg. even HA chars will have a tought time dealing with all of that no matter how u look it. especially if u have skills like tangling mire or thunderstorm to back u up.

    people honestly think way to little of both the assassin and psychic class. i have no idea why ppl cant seem to see or grasp the potential these 2 classes have. but they are in that "prove your worth" phase so i guess in a few more months ppl will lighten up on them.

    after all fist BMs and wizzards went thru this same phase at one point lol.

    Well right now atm people think:

    Assassins = Bad Fist BM and a Close Quarter Archer

    Psychics = Some stupid version of a wizard

    Obviously the statements I mentioned above is not true.
    I have pretty much quit my BM for this awesome class...and my BM has some pretty decent gear (GXes, lots of Sage skills, helm of holy, heavenrage boots, and etc)
    ----

    Sins can make chi like crazy, hurt like crazy, have the advantage of getting the first strong/immobilizing hit in PK. They just lack solid defense. Atm they rely on chances of not taking a single hit or status effect for a small period amount of time.

    So what a Sin needs is a way to kill the opponent fast enough and I think the DPS build does justice to that for HA users.
  • Motoko - Raging Tide
    Motoko - Raging Tide Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    ROFLMAO

    Considering rank 8 costs about 4000 gold or lets be generous and price gold at 300k (yea right...) 1.2 billion coins, just for your rank8 chest. And you can't wear the rest of your rank 8 because you need the - interval from lionheart + ashura + event + nirvana gear.

    GJ a sin can out DPS a fist BM if they spend an extra 1.2 billion coins (lowest possible, more likely 1.6b+), or 4000 dollars, or any mix there of. Could this thread possibly be any more ****?

    So you are going to waste the entire rank 8 set besides the chest to get 5atks/second?b:chuckle

    Not to mention it is much easier to get Lunar claws than Niravana Daggers...

    You guys crack me up b:laugh
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    This is the way the world ends
    This is the way the world ends
    This is the way the world ends
    Not with a bang but a whimper. - T. S. Eliot
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    thats actually kind of funny considering how expensive it is to get 5atk/sec on a fist BM lol. also whats stoping a sin from using there skills even once the get 5atk/sec?

    that is extremly biased seeing as ppl will easily spend w/e ammount of money to make there char better at endgame.

    and all a sin rly needs is nirvana and rakn 8 chest which is no more diffrent then a BM getting rank 8 gear at endgame. infact rank 8 is what almost all classes aim for once they are 100+ so why shouldnt sins spend some money on it?

    the only diffrence between a sin getting 5atk/sec and a fist BM getting 5atk/sec is that a sin might have to spend little extra to get that -0.1 interval.

    .

    a little?

    160mill for tome
    50 mill for claws
    50 mill for cape
    roughly 150 mill for a TT99 gold spilt set

    thats all we need

    you need recasted legs and recasted tt 99 daggers AND rank 8 on top of that ... thats not a LITTLE *facedesk*

    on another note i have stated from the START that the new classes have their own niche its the

    sins caliming to be dps when their made for spike/control

    its the psys claiming thier spike when their dps/utility

    its actually possibal for venos to get 5 aps to with a higher DPS than any in gameb:chuckle but does that mean its PRACTICLE

    and yes dagger animation is longer than fist strikes by almost .2 seconds
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Super_Trout - Dreamweaver
    Super_Trout - Dreamweaver Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    its actually possible for venos to get 5 aps to with a higher DPS than any in gameb:chuckle but does that mean its PRACTICAL

    I would totally love to see a veno with 5aps b:shockedb:dirty
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Phoenix - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Recasted Nirvana daggers can spawn with Sacrifical Strike. I don't think you can get -0.1 interval on them, though, only -0.05, but I'd take Sacrificial strike over -0.05 interval, anyway...they'd make for some beastly damage numbers on some of our skills.
    HH99 nirvana daggers have 0.1 interval...
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    make...the...char

    record it

    then post aproximate cost of gear and a realistic way for a player to get it shrot of buying it from CS

    i see this as a "lets spen a ton of cash to do somthing none of my classes skills where ment for" exercise

    its nice but you could probly spend the same amount +12 those daggers chill and 1 shot things
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    and yes dagger animation is longer than fist strikes by almost .2 seconds
    You're so horribly ignorant it's not even funny. I get 1.82 atks/sec on my sin and no, the animation is not long. At all.


    And the thread is about POTENTIAL ENDGAME DPS.


    Nobody gives a **** what you need to spend for it and nobody cares whether sins are made for DPS or spike damage. Gtfo.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Super_Trout - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I would totally love to see a veno with 5aps b:shockedb:dirty

    they just need to break a set of decides every time they log in lol

    (just learned this lol)

    other than that mele mastery + standard fist gear however they have 0 skills to use meaning they cant lock and kill

    that said sins have 2 short suns and a set of freezes

    ask yourself is it easier to try and lock then DPS or to just to spike w/e to death?

    @ Kristoph animation is longer but this WILL be shortend by accelerated strike rate the only issue is what does it cap at?

    not suck it up oracle to 99 mine nirvana and buy rank 8 and prove it

    or be willing to argue it on theory

    walls of red text dont make you right and till its proven it is theory and untill a theory is irivokably proven even one instance otherwise = trashed
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    they just need to break a set of decides every time they log in lol

    (just learned this lol)

    other than that mele mastery + standard fist gear however they have 0 skills to use meaning they cant lock and kill

    that said sins have 2 short suns and a set of freezes

    ask yourself is it easier to try and lock then DPS or to just to spike w/e to death?
    Yes, a 5 second stun followed by 6 seconds of occult ice couldn't possibly kill anyone, that's only 10 seconds of being hit at 3.33-5 attacks per second with a 30% critrate and 230% critdmg.


    Idiot.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    Yes, a 5 second stun followed by 6 seconds of occult ice couldn't possibly kill anyone, that's only 10 seconds of being hit at 3.33-5 attacks per second with a 30% critrate and 230% critdmg.


    Idiot.

    wizzie blink bm leaps barb invoke veno hood cleric shell archer WoG etc

    imoblize does not = full lock

    as sins are a new class if any 7x sins with some - int want to test on me you may to figure out the DPS vs spike issue ill be willing to help next time im on

    as the stunlocker/dps'r i've tryed it and even with 100% stuns + ice its a pain to pull off
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Killermate - Harshlands
    Killermate - Harshlands Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wizzie blink bm leaps barb invoke veno hood cleric shell archer WoG etc

    imoblize does not = full lock

    as sins are a new class if any 7x sins with some - int want to test on me you may to figure out the DPS vs spike issue ill be willing to help next time im on

    as the stunlocker/dps'r i've tryed it and even with 100% stuns + ice its a pain to pull off

    LOL Now you are making yourself look like a re tard. When he said Stun+Occult ice, he meant STUN not paralyze. But i guess your will for flaming has blinded you to that point huh?

    P.S: he forgot to mention that we could easily add +40% crit with Power Dash on top of that 30% crit for 8 second of these 11 secs of stun+occult ice lock.
  • Motoko - Raging Tide
    Motoko - Raging Tide Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    HH99 nirvana daggers have 0.1 interval...


    You're so horribly ignorant it's not even funny. I get 1.82 atks/sec on my sin and no, the animation is not long. At all.


    And the thread is about POTENTIAL ENDGAME DPS.


    Nobody gives a **** what you need to spend for it and nobody cares whether sins are made for DPS or spike damage. Gtfo.

    You heard it here first guys. If a sin spends 5x as much as a BM he can deal more damage, who would have thought?b:chuckle

    /thread
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    This is the way the world ends
    This is the way the world ends
    This is the way the world ends
    Not with a bang but a whimper. - T. S. Eliot
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »
    LOL Now you are making yourself look like a re tard. When he said Stun+Occult ice, he meant STUN not paralyze. But i guess your will for flaming has blinded you to that point huh?

    P.S: he forgot to mention that we could easily add +40% crit with Power Dash on top of that 30% crit for 8 second of these 11 secs of stun+occult ice lock.

    frozen ok the effect is still the same its an imobilization NOT a lock the people can still act

    and yes your oracled levels fill me with awe and reverance?

    how about this you can either

    A) insult me and poke my grammer
    or
    B) disprove me with logic and a working example

    untill then have fun ragging on me?

    look at your skills they are built for spike damage you do have a decent natural dps from autoattack however throwing aside massive weapon add skills +30 attack levels

    you already get comperable damage and comperable chi gain and the ability to bypass charms

    im not sayin its impossibal im saying its impracticle to spend all that coin for verry little gain

    so get a sin to 99 and prove me wrong or be willing to argue based on the assumption that you can be wrong otherwise your simply a biggot

    (edit) stun time in mainly eaten by cast/channel and the frozen time is not a true lock by any means
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Trawne - Lost City
    Trawne - Lost City Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    frozen ok the effect is still the same its an imobilization NOT a lock the people can still act

    and yes your oracled levels fill me with awe and reverance?

    how about this you can either

    A) insult me and poke my grammer
    or
    B) disprove me with logic and a working example

    untill then have fun ragging on me?

    look at your skills they are built for spike damage you do have a decent natural dps from autoattack however throwing aside massive weapon add skills +30 attack levels

    you already get comperable damage and comperable chi gain and the ability to bypass charms

    im not sayin its impossibal im saying its impracticle to spend all that coin for verry little gain

    so get a sin to 99 and prove me wrong or be willing to argue based on the assumption that you can be wrong otherwise your simply a biggot

    (edit) stun time in mainly eaten by cast/channel and the frozen time is not a true lock by any means


    really....you fail on so many levels....

    HEADHUNT IS A STUN
    OCCULT ICE IS A STUN

    b:bye
    I hope that I shall always possess firmness and virtue enough to maintain what I consider the most enviable of title, the character of an honest man. -George Washington
  • Killermate - Harshlands
    Killermate - Harshlands Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    frozen ok the effect is still the same its an imobilization NOT a lock the people can still act

    and yes your oracled levels fill me with awe and reverance?

    how about this you can either

    A) insult me and poke my grammer
    or
    B) disprove me with logic and a working example

    untill then have fun ragging on me?

    look at your skills they are built for spike damage you do have a decent natural dps from autoattack however throwing aside massive weapon add skills +30 attack levels

    you already get comperable damage and comperable chi gain and the ability to bypass charms

    im not sayin its impossibal im saying its impracticle to spend all that coin for verry little gain

    so get a sin to 99 and prove me wrong or be willing to argue based on the assumption that you can be wrong otherwise your simply a biggot

    (edit) stun time in mainly eaten by cast/channel and the frozen time is not a true lock by any means

    Sorry wut? Can't hear you all the way form PvE server.

    I can play fail troll too :D
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Killermate - Harshlands wrote: »
    Sorry wut? Can't hear you all the way form PvE server.

    I can play fail troll too :D

    that you are *nod*
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Kristoph - Lost City
    Kristoph - Lost City Posts: 2,016 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    frozen ok the effect is still the same its an imobilization NOT a lock the people can still act

    and yes your oracled levels fill me with awe and reverance?

    how about this you can either

    A) insult me and poke my grammer
    or
    B) disprove me with logic and a working example

    untill then have fun ragging on me?

    look at your skills they are built for spike damage you do have a decent natural dps from autoattack however throwing aside massive weapon add skills +30 attack levels

    you already get comperable damage and comperable chi gain and the ability to bypass charms

    im not sayin its impossibal im saying its impracticle to spend all that coin for verry little gain

    so get a sin to 99 and prove me wrong or be willing to argue based on the assumption that you can be wrong otherwise your simply a biggot

    (edit) stun time in mainly eaten by cast/channel and the frozen time is not a true lock by any means
    loool

    Since when can you use skills while being stunned or occult iced? Have you even used either of these skills or what? Playing some bugged private server?


    Yes being Occult iced means you're locked, so you're basically only wasting 1.5 seconds worth of casting time for a 5 second stun, and after that there's about 10 seconds of nonstop melee attacks, assuming you time Occult Ice right along with the time it'll take for the target to move away after coming out of it.


    And how many times am I going to have to repeat it? We're discussing endgame DPS. DPS does not come from skill spamming, genius. When discussing potential you don't take into consideration how much you have to spend. And face it, even on Lost City alone there's over 5 people that spent enough to get rank 8. No, the average player will never do this, but who cares?


    Now gtf back to your pve server please.
    Wondering how much longer these **** packs are going to be around.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Trawne - Lost City wrote: »
    really....you fail on so many levels....

    HEADHUNT IS A STUN
    OCCULT ICE IS A STUN

    b:bye

    sry for doublepost

    headhunt is a stun yes

    ocoult ice is not >.< it locks the target in place and from my experiance has never prevented skill useage

    so yes by eating 2 sparks for HH chaining your chi skills (eats up mos of the 5 seconds) casting ice (instant i know) 3x spark to get 5 aps...wich will eat 3 seconds of that...

    you COULD spark in stealth but lose the lock in place with HH before ice

    hint: try these things out before you shout nub?

    prove me wrong please instead of reiterating the same bad ideas head hunt and ice do not make a lock in of themselves figure more effective locks
    useing less costly skills with lower cast/channel times and lower spark usage

    remember to never use non class specific geni skills that you gain no special benifit from out of these theories they tend to lead to "oh you ice?" EXPEL!!! or somthing along those lines

    ice is usefull as a closing skill/bridge between stuns or for holding a runner in place for 1 last hit never assume that it will always work or that your oponent will not seal stun or freeze you back

    is asking you to figure a way to use this trolling now?

    still dont think its practicle cost wise but it would be rather nice to see somone make this work. so go test it vs a more standard spkie setup and figure total chi gain damage and survivabilityb:thanks
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »
    loool

    Since when can you use skills while being stunned or occult iced? Have you even used either of these skills or what? Playing some bugged private server?


    Yes being Occult iced means you're locked, so you're basically only wasting 1.5 seconds worth of casting time for a 5 second stun, and after that there's about 10 seconds of nonstop melee attacks, assuming you time Occult Ice right along with the time it'll take for the target to move away after coming out of it.


    And how many times am I going to have to repeat it? We're discussing endgame DPS. DPS does not come from skill spamming, genius. When discussing potential you don't take into consideration how much you have to spend. And face it, even on Lost City alone there's over 5 people that spent enough to get rank 8. No, the average player will never do this, but who cares?


    Now gtf back to your pve server please.

    wizzies get their dps from skill spam no?

    DPS = damage per second

    the highest possible DPS may be gained through skill spam normal attacks or any mix of the 2

    and last i checked...the average player cares?

    ok theoretical DPS for endgame sins

    got a damage formula for what their dex adds to damage per hit?

    weapon damage and mastery as well?

    what about self buffs and their effect including cast time and is that woth the break in hit rate?
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Asperitas - Lost City
    Asperitas - Lost City Posts: 907 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wizzies get their dps from skill spam no?

    DPS = damage per second

    the highest possible DPS may be gained through skill spam normal attacks or any mix of the 2

    He's saying good DPS does not come from skill spamming - aka - dps from normal attacks > dps from skill spamming. Therefore, he is infering that skill spamming is an irrelevant argument because it is so bad at generating dps.
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    and last i checked...the average player cares?

    They are talking about potential DPS. This means the highest potential DPS an assassin can achieve. Highest potential is not bound by monetary restrictions.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wizzies get their dps from skill spam no?

    DPS = damage per second

    the highest possible DPS may be gained through skill spam normal attacks or any mix of the 2

    and last i checked...the average player cares?

    ok theoretical DPS for endgame sins

    got a damage formula for what their dex adds to damage per hit?

    weapon damage and mastery as well?

    what about self buffs and their effect including cast time and is that woth the break in hit rate?

    sigh, a wizzard=/= DPS. a wiz relies on DPH (damage per HIT) they dont rely on DPS (damage per SECOND). so dont even try to bring a wiz in a DPS discussion.

    2nd animation speed for a sin is not long -__-. pleast make a damn sin and figure this out on ur own. if u have damn EYES u can see that since its so obvious that there is almost no diffrence between fist melee animation and dagger melee animation.

    3rd, damage forumula? again u dont need that. use ur freaking EYES. a fist BM has to spread there points between dex and str and (and maybe vit for some ppl) in order to wear fists and get a good crit boost. a sin on the other hand gets all of there damage out put and crit output from ONE stat. they go full dex and they get damage and crit rate. there is NOTHING more optimal to a DPS build then that. getting both crit rate and damage from one stat is golden for anyone wanting to optimize DPS.

    4th, minimum weapon dmg is slightly lower then fist where as maximum weapon dmg is higher then fist maximum. the weapon mastery (dagger devotion) gives the same 60% weapon dmg boost just like all the other physical classes.

    5th, again USE YOUR EYES. look at the self buffs they have... they have a skill to add 40% crit rate at max, tons of chi giving skills, a amp skill, a rage damage increase skill, and etc etc. wolf emblem+powerdash+subsea strike+5atk/sec meleeing alone=death for just about anyone no matter how u look it. add the fact that they can add in tidal protection/focus mind and head hunt for stun and u will see how dangerous of a class they are.

    also i have to lol at these random guys talking about how expensive it is when we are talking about the potential of a class. atm theres so many ppl running around with +12 gear and rank 8 gear and other insane expensive equips. so no, for alot of ppl money wont be a issue. spending money on the CS is just a fast way to get rep for rank 8... it is not the only method seeing as u can easily spend some time in game saving up for it like many ppl did and is doing.



    as ive said tons of times before... a sin getting 5 atk/sec they will easily be able to out DPS a fist BM. a fist BM will not be able to keep up with that pace at all. expensive? the only thing that will be expensive is rank 8 chest and maybe the 100 daggers. obviously it will be expensive but when u look at the gear most ppl use at 100+ with endgame then u will see its just normal price range. nothing special or rare at all unless ur 8x and lower and still think skills are expensive in spirt and coin....
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    sigh, a wizzard=/= DPS. a wiz relies on DPH (damage per HIT) they dont rely on DPS (damage per SECOND). so dont even try to bring a wiz in a DPS discussion.

    2nd animation speed for a sin is not long -__-. pleast make a damn sin and figure this out on ur own. if u have damn EYES u can see that since its so obvious that there is almost no diffrence between fist melee animation and dagger melee animation.

    3rd, damage forumula? again u dont need that. use ur freaking EYES. a fist BM has to spread there points between dex and str and (and maybe vit for some ppl) in order to wear fists and get a good crit boost. a sin on the other hand gets all of there damage out put and crit output from ONE stat. they go full dex and they get damage and crit rate. there is NOTHING more optimal to a DPS build then that. getting both crit rate and damage from one stat is golden for anyone wanting to optimize DPS.

    4th, minimum weapon dmg is slightly lower then fist where as maximum weapon dmg is higher then fist maximum. the weapon mastery (dagger devotion) gives the same 60% weapon dmg boost just like all the other physical classes.

    5th, again USE YOUR EYES. look at the self buffs they have... they have a skill to add 40% crit rate at max, tons of chi giving skills, a amp skill, a rage damage increase skill, and etc etc. wolf emblem+powerdash+powerdash+5atk/sec meleeing alone=death for just about anyone no matter how u look it. add the fact that they can add in tidal protection/focus mind and head hunt for stun and u will see how dangerous of a class they are.

    also i have to lol at these random guys talking about how expensive it is when we are talking about the potential of a class. atm theres so many ppl running around with +12 gear and rank 8 gear and other insane expensive equips. so no, for alot of ppl money wont be a issue. spending money on the CS is just a fast way to get rep for rank 8... it is not the only method seeing as u can easily spend some time in game saving up for it like many ppl did and is doing.

    just a practicle example of a class that skill spams to deal its highest dps

    a far better examples would be psys i suppose for a class that skill spams for dps

    in fact atm the only classes that relly on normall hits at all for DPS are bm's and archers

    he wants to know the potential endgame DPS with normal atacks and hell spark now srt dex and maq all act differently as damage modifiers on skills/attacks so yes a formula is needed to figure out the highest possible sin endgame dps

    also since i doubt theres a sin with +12 grade 15 daggers whats the refine rate on these per grade and per refine level?

    so taking a max of - int gear with a maximum of +dex adds assuming hell spark and 5 aps

    and the animation on dagger hits is slightly slower than fist animation but it is a very small differance (about a fifth of a second on the slowest attack animation rough figure since there is room for human error on this)b:surrender
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    i really dont understand what you are saying. are you trying to say that sins are ment for spike DDing with there skills and only that? that is absurd...

    fist BMs use melee as an atk because there fist have high base atk speed. archers (for w/e reason) use fist to melee sometimes because of that fact. daggers have the 2nd highest base atk speed. only -0.1 interval from fist. meaning daggers have the 2nd highest base atk speed in game. obviously someone is going to figure out how to get 5 atk/sec from that just as they did with fists.

    everyone else like barbs/axe BMs cant do this because axe base atk speed is way to low. same with swords and polearms.

    saying a sin is not suppose to melee is just being biased as hell... they have way to many advantages to not try and get 5atk/sec and melee. they also still can easily use there skills to help them with meleeing unlike fist BMs. they have rib strike which lowers 50% atk speed. they got blood paint. tidal protection. focus mind. subsea strike. power dash. head hunt. and etc etc. all can be used in combination to there normal atks. fist BMs cant do this because there fist skill tree is not nearly as useful of a sins skill tree. most fist BMs have to switch to the axe skill tree to get most of there usefull skills. and in a fight its much more usefull to not have to switch back and forth between weapons at all.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    i really dont understand what you are saying. are you trying to say that sins are ment for spike DDing with there skills and only that? that is absurd...

    fist BMs use melee as an atk because there fist have high base atk speed. archers (for w/e reason) use fist to melee sometimes because of that fact. daggers have the 2nd highest base atk speed. only -0.1 interval from fist. meaning daggers have the 2nd highest base atk speed in game. obviously someone is going to figure out how to get 5 atk/sec from that just as they did with fists.

    everyone else like barbs/axe BMs cant do this because axe base atk speed is way to low. same with swords and polearms.

    saying a sin is not suppose to melee is just being biased as hell... they have way to many advantages to not try and get 5atk/sec and melee. they also still can easily use there skills to help them with meleeing unlike fist BMs. they have rib strike which lowers 50% atk speed. they got blood paint. tidal protection. focus mind. subsea strike. power dash. head hunt. and etc etc. all can be used in combination to there normal atks. fist BMs cant do this because there fist skill tree is not nearly as useful of a sins skill tree. most fist BMs have to switch to the axe skill tree to get most of there usefull skills. and in a fight its much more usefull to not have to switch back and forth between weapons at all.

    no im saying you have a 400% weapon damage skill amps and other rediculous adds

    imo DPS for pve on a sin realy should be no need for skill spam after bloodbath and decent "dodge" buffs +rib strike

    and crazy spike when needed for bypassing charms in pvp and such

    honestly didnt know about the rank 8 top before this thread (thx btw) so the issue is now animation cap and damage added by weapon refines dex etc sadly we wonlt be able to test the cap rate for shure till a sin gets this gear
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Killermate - Harshlands
    Killermate - Harshlands Posts: 437 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    LOL Ppl still arguing with the nub BM that argues "prove me im wrong" when all he has to do is read skill descriptions or at least know WTH he is talking about.
    b:chuckle

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