THE FISTED ARCHER: Theory and Discussion

245

Comments

  • Chezedude - Dreamweaver
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    fire buff does apply, I know as a fact because I have tested it. The increase is actually pretty significant about 10-20% more damage.
    youtube.com/chezedude
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    fire buff does apply, I know as a fact because I have tested it. The increase is actually pretty significant about 10-20% more damage.

    Hmm if the fire buff does apply you should get quite a bit more than that if you have min STR for the weapon. With lunar claws you have 146 STR I think so your weapon attack multiplier would be (1+146/150) which is about 200% weapon attack. Add on top of that sage blazing arrow's 60% weapon attack and you'd get 30% more damage.

    Ahh but I'm sure you spend most of your time fisting sage sparked.
    So that means you go from (1+146/150+5) -> (1+146/150+5+0.6) 8.6% more damage
    It would be less if you have a barb buff, wiz buff, apoth elemental buff etc.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
    Genie Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html - (don't use IE)
    Socket Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/socketcalculator.html
  • Chezedude - Dreamweaver
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    thats correct. it really depends on what you are hitting too. when i use it on a bm in phys marrow I do double damage when not in spark. about 50% more damage on a bm without marrow.

    The fire buff for archer is just as good as fist mastery and gives you attacks thats both phys and magical.
    youtube.com/chezedude
  • Miugre - Heavens Tear
    Miugre - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    So, okay... let's say I'm not a crazy CS abuser (= lack of ridiculous amounts of disposable coin), and have about as much chance to get 200k rep as PWI has of getting all its bugs fixed (= no -interval rank armor). I'm going sage, I decided this long ago (don't particularly care if anyone yells at me for that e.g. Devoted, I'd just think it's funny :P).

    Given those limiting factors, what are my options for lowering my attack interval? I'm currently wearing a -0.05 bracer, but I'll be replacing it in 4 levels or so anyway (even though nobody ever puts 80s LA in the AH, and I'm far too poor to care about TT armor at the moment >_<). That's my only piece of -interval gear. Which other pieces exist and where do they come from (mold, TT, Frost, Lunar, OHT, Nirvana, etc.)?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Yes, I'm still a stubborn holdout in favor of the old game. Haters gonna hate. ;]

    Other Active Characters:
    LigerKing (Barb), Girasole (BM), Shamsheer (Sin), ArborSoul (Mystic).
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    So, okay... let's say I'm not a crazy CS abuser (= lack of ridiculous amounts of disposable coin), and have about as much chance to get 200k rep as PWI has of getting all its bugs fixed (= no -interval rank armor). I'm going sage, I decided this long ago (don't particularly care if anyone yells at me for that e.g. Devoted, I'd just think it's funny :P).

    Given those limiting factors, what are my options for lowering my attack interval? I'm currently wearing a -0.05 bracer, but I'll be replacing it in 4 levels or so anyway (even though nobody ever puts 80s LA in the AH, and I'm far too poor to care about TT armor at the moment >_<). That's my only piece of -interval gear. Which other pieces exist and where do they come from (mold, TT, Frost, Lunar, OHT, Nirvana, etc.)?

    Sources of -interval:
    lvl60 Bracers of blood moon: -.1
    TT90 LA gold wrists: -.1
    TT99 LA wrists: -.1
    Hax event cape (lvl 90): -.05
    Hax event tome: -.05
    Rank IV lvl 60 chest: -.05
    Rank VI lvl 80 chest: -.05
    Rank VIII lvl 100 chest: -.1
    TT99 LA 2-piece bonus: -.05
    TT99 HA 2-piece bonus (ornaments): -.05
    Nirvana pants: -.05

    Weapons:
    Windcatcher -.1
    TT100 xbow -.1
    Rank 8 Bow -.1
    Lunar Bow -.1
    Wind and Clouds -.1
    Crimsonhorn Soulsmasher: -.05
    a few others...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
    Genie Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html - (don't use IE)
    Socket Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/socketcalculator.html
  • Ussichu - Sanctuary
    Ussichu - Sanctuary Posts: 429 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I'll vouch for fire buff working on fists. Resists were flying on that fox boss in eden.
    Navarre was your everyday veno, until she learned her true form. Now she's fox walloping and purging over and over again.. all for a deep stinging, head hunting, wind pushing Assassin. Will there be inner harmony and myriad rainbows? But of course! Yuri&Lemon Find it on Fanfiction XD "Discovering Sanctuary" Chapter 2 is up ^_^
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Hold on, Lady Legerity said it does not apply, here: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=4977242&postcount=12

    Is there evidence to the contrary?

    I was using bare fists.

    Later to find out if you use an actual weapon, it applies.

    Sorry for not clarifying it shortly after I made that statement. (I found out shortly after) =p
  • AndyNagato - Lost City
    AndyNagato - Lost City Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    lolthread...

    IMAGINE THE FISTED ARCHER, soloing TT3-x for anal... i mean ANNALS excuse me :|.
  • Smobo - Heavens Tear
    Smobo - Heavens Tear Posts: 386 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    I smacked a puppy for 405 damage. I did it again, 405 damage. I cast blazing arrow, smacked the puppy for 405 damage. Neither the blazing arrow buff, nor the +70% fire buff added any damage.

    Edit: Yes, I'm a cat lover. b:chuckle
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "People who quote themselves in their signatures are silly. I mean, they can just make up whatever **** they want, and since they said it in their siggie, its a quote." - Smobo
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Smobo - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I smacked a puppy for 405 damage. I did it again, 405 damage. I cast blazing arrow, smacked the puppy for 405 damage. Neither the blazing arrow buff, nor the +70% fire buff added any damage.

    Edit: Yes, I'm a cat lover. b:chuckle

    Was it bare fists or a fist/claw weapon?
  • Smobo - Heavens Tear
    Smobo - Heavens Tear Posts: 386 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Bare fists, so my results may be wrong. The game may also reduce the blazing arrow damage to 0 on non ranged weapons, so on a fire resist mob its "resisting" 0 damage.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "People who quote themselves in their signatures are silly. I mean, they can just make up whatever **** they want, and since they said it in their siggie, its a quote." - Smobo
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Smobo - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Bare fists, so my results may be wrong. The game may also reduce the blazing arrow damage to 0 on non ranged weapons, so on a fire resist mob its "resisting" 0 damage.

    I don't think you're wrong. It's just that you tested with bare fists and made the assumption that it applies to actual fist weapons like I did.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6389831&postcount=38

    Bare fists means no Blazing Arrows effect. Fist/Claw weapon means BA applies.

    This seems to be the case so far.
  • Captain_Fury - Sanctuary
    Captain_Fury - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Smobo - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure str doesn't increase bow damage.

    I did investigate by creating a level 1 Archer and gaining 2 levels. I invested 10 points into STR. The result: No physical Damage improvement. Therefore, the PWI Calculator is wrong in the matter, unfortunately.
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Captain_Fury - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I did investigate by creating a level 1 Archer and gaining 2 levels. I invested 10 points into STR. The result: No physical Damage improvement. Therefore, the PWI Calculator is wrong in the matter, unfortunately.

    It has been known already the str does not increase our ranged physical damage, only dex does.

    Curious to see how str comes into play for fists though. I assume the code checks for range and then factors in str or dex for our damage?
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It has been known already the str does not increase our ranged physical damage, only dex does.

    Curious to see how str comes into play for fists though. I assume the code checks for range and then factors in str or dex for our damage?

    Fists are STR based and use the STR damage formula. It looks the same as the dex damage formula only swap out DEX for STR.

    I'm actually surprised unarmed does not benefit from blazing arrow since you get a good bit of weapon attack just from rings and level. I guess it actually does check to see if you have a weapon equipped.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Refining Simulator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/refiningsimulator.html (don't use IE)
    Genie Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/geniecalculator.html - (don't use IE)
    Socket Calculator - aster.ohmydays.net/pw/socketcalculator.html
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Fists are STR based and use the STR damage formula. It looks the same as the dex damage formula only swap out DEX for STR.

    I'm actually surprised unarmed does not benefit from blazing arrow since you get a good bit of weapon attack just from rings and level. I guess it actually does check to see if you have a weapon equipped.

    I know str affects fists and dex affects ranged weapons; I was just curious how the code checks for this. Does it check upon equipping (I think this makes more sense) or when the shot/hit is executed?
  • Captain_Fury - Sanctuary
    Captain_Fury - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Correction on my previous calculations and accusation that the PWI Calculator includes STR for Bow damage. It in fact does not, nor were my previous calculations correct on the comparison of a Fisted Archer vs. Standard Archer in way of character statistics. Corrections are as follows:
    Archer without Fists and equipped with Blinding Radiance

    Level: 90
    STR 94 (minimum requirement for Light Armor)
    DEX 376 (+15 added from Xbow)
    Physcal Attack: 3017 - 6145
    Crit: 20%
    Accuracy: 3008
    Evasion: 2256
    Archer with Fists and equipped with Blinding Radiance

    Level: 90
    STR 142 (Minimum requirement for Fist of Fecalius)
    DEX 328 (+15 added from Xbow)
    Physical Attack: 2742 - 5548
    Crit: 18%
    Accuracy: 2624
    Evasion: 1968

    This basically shows the difference 48 points of DEX makes.
    Archer equipped with Fists

    Level:90
    Same stats as above
    Physical Attack:1297 - 1416
    Crit: 20% (+4 added from Fists)

    Attack speed really makes the difference in regards to efficiency of using fists. And used only if enemy is too close for comfort or any other special means. Plus, you'll be poppin' crits like crazy.
  • Ussichu - Sanctuary
    Ussichu - Sanctuary Posts: 429 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    AndyNagato - Lost City wrote: »
    lolthread...

    IMAGINE THE FISTED ARCHER, soloing TT3-x for anal... i mean ANNALS excuse me :|.

    One of them solos palace of nirvana -.-
    Navarre was your everyday veno, until she learned her true form. Now she's fox walloping and purging over and over again.. all for a deep stinging, head hunting, wind pushing Assassin. Will there be inner harmony and myriad rainbows? But of course! Yuri&Lemon Find it on Fanfiction XD "Discovering Sanctuary" Chapter 2 is up ^_^
  • Captain_Fury - Sanctuary
    Captain_Fury - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    After my evaluation and with the help of all of you in this forum, I've cometo my conclusion:

    !) Primarily, the Archer is intended to be strictly an Archer. With the benefits of applying pure DEX, aside from minimum STR requirements, the Archer is more efficient. Indeed it is true that it will be very rare to see a creature reach you where you will then have to apply Fists, particularly at the higher levels. It proved useful in the lower levels. But not so much in the higher ones.

    2) I would indeed be a stubborn player if I kept to the Fisted Archer. Though fun to use, it is inefficient to the extent that it just isn't needed. Yet being "just like every other Archer" has a distaste in itself. I have yet to fully decide.

    Please share your opinion as to what you think about this character build. Is it "Dumb Beyond Comprehension" or "A Great Invention" which will progress the evolution of the Multi-Class...
  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Captain_Fury - Sanctuary wrote: »
    After my evaluation and with the help of all of you in this forum, I've cometo my conclusion:

    !) Primarily, the Archer is intended to be strictly an Archer. With the benefits of applying pure DEX, aside from minimum STR requirements, the Archer is more efficient. Indeed it is true that it will be very rare to see a creature reach you where you will then have to apply Fists, particularly at the higher levels. It proved useful in the lower levels. But not so much in the higher ones.

    2) I would indeed be a stubborn player if I kept to the Fisted Archer. Though fun to use, it is inefficient to the extent that it just isn't needed. Yet being "just like every other Archer" has a distaste in itself. I have yet to fully decide.

    Please share your opinion as to what you think about this character build. Is it "Dumb Beyond Comprehension" or "A Great Invention" which will progress the evolution of the Multi-Class...

    You are the next best invention since the coffee maker. b:thanks
  • Captain_Fury - Sanctuary
    Captain_Fury - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    OK, I bought the reset note and transferred all the unneeded STR over to DEX. It's actually much better. At the level my character is now having a melee weapon is useless, though it was useful during lower levels. But certainly not higher levels. He kicks more **** now.
  • Chezedude - Dreamweaver
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Captain_Fury - Sanctuary wrote: »
    though it was useful during lower levels. But certainly not higher levels.

    other way around >.<
    youtube.com/chezedude
  • Captain_Fury - Sanctuary
    Captain_Fury - Sanctuary Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    other way around >.<

    Certainly not at this point. Enemies just don't get close to me. With a 15% Crit at level 57, there's no need for the fists. It wastes attribute points. Maybe, as you claim, in much higher levels it will be necessary.
  • Ursa - Dreamweaver
    Ursa - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,634 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    /facepalm

    6 pages of posts and 40 min of youtube movies about what a fist archer can do and u still don't get it.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/34748338@N00/3945002962/
    ____________
    I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
    George Carlin

    ~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Chezedude - Dreamweaver
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    the only time when fists might be better is when you can get an attack rate of at least 3.33 which is only acheivable after lvl 95
    youtube.com/chezedude
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    the only time when fists might be better is when you can get an attack rate of at least 3.33 which is only acheivable after lvl 95

    Just curious, why 3.33?
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Just curious, why 3.33?

    cuz demon spark would get u permaspark?
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Chezedude - Dreamweaver
    Chezedude - Dreamweaver Posts: 236 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    3.33 including spark i mean. this is because you will be in spark at least 50% of the times. If it's any slower then the damage wouldn't be much more than with a ranged weapon.
    youtube.com/chezedude
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    cuz demon spark would get u permaspark?

    That would be 4, not 3.33, no?

    edit: actually, I think it may be 3.33 if I truncate and round off the value.
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »
    That would be 4, not 3.33, no?

    Side note math (since Sir Chezedude already stated why 3.33 is important):

    3.33 attacks / sec => 0.30 secs / attack

    Demon Spark => new attack interval is 0.75 * 0.30 secs / attack
    => 0.225 secs / attack

    Truncate to 2 decimal places => 0.22 secs / attack
    Round to nearest valid attack interval => 0.20 secs / attack

    => 5 attacks / sec

    That's only if my reverse-engineered math is correct.

    EDIT: Curses, you beat me, Lady Legerity.

Categories