Archers Fail Endgame?

Options
13

Comments

  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    its just we dont have spikes. Our damage accumulates over time. In PvP its all about spike damage to break a charm. We rely on criticals to deal spikes and attack rate to deal with the sheer amount of HP.
    this contradictory statement is the definition of an oxymoron.

    anyways, yeah, assassins (second fastest, huge amount of crit + crit dmg increaser) and fist bms (that go loco on gear) are always going to out damage us lol.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • KedgeSniper - Lost City
    KedgeSniper - Lost City Posts: 733 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    End game all classes need to invest in their toon. No **** armor **** bow is going to kill some one that invested, so you either do the same or lose.
    True, Ya will in fact have to +7 Yar weapoin to kill more often or +6yar armor to survive more. That doesnt mean, Mage wont +8 or other classes. And after all Ya will still in a same disvantage to wat i said early.
    Our PDEF n MDEF is just horrible. Comparing to any class self buffs. Since we are pure dex, Our hp lack dont help us either. Yes we hit hard, n thats what makes this class probably hard one to play than any other.


    That has nothing to do with the class. And this discussion is about the archer class.
    I believe any class available to win 1v1 wit equal gear. Even against a barb.




    Sorry to break it to you, but if you are fail archer its your fault. So do something about it or reroll some class that takes less skill and gear.


    We are not QQ. We giving REAL facts. We know the facts ya giving are over exaggerate.


    Or better yet come to DW go white named in OT and prove me wroung.
    Then again.. I think im the one in a PVP server.
    OT for pking on noobs. We roll in 3rd map n OHT. IJS.

    Btw-- the damage i stated earler is crt.. but its not hard to crt that if you have over 50%crt.
    Over 50%...
    Then again.. that way over the edge. Unless yar adding up sharp n stunin arrow hell.. which in that case. Dont stack.
    i have 31% im sure some archer mite have 35%-40% With event cape/belt99/scroll tome.

    33% with hell passive.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Face the fear. Face a war. Face the world.
    Leeching CQ salary since 09'
    Many names, Common Faces.
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    this contradictory statement is the definition of an oxymoron.

    anyways, yeah, assassins (second fastest, huge amount of crit + crit dmg increaser) and fist bms (that go loco on gear) are always going to out damage us lol.

    Unfortunately I did not clearly express my ideas as you dont seem to understand - much as an archer either.


    Our criticals are in no way "spike" damage in the literal form of naturally very high hits that take out enormous proportions (quarters, or halves) from an opponites HP without needing to critical.


    Our criticals merely take our damage onto the level of un-critted mages, clerics, etc.

    steelmyth wrote: »
    I spoke about evasion talking about physical survivability, i didnt say anything about evasion working against magic attacks. In fact i agree our magic defense is ****. However with wings of grace activated it turns out to be somewhat decent.


    Second, its not completely true that we do not have damage spikes. In fact, if you have ever met a rank8 archer you will realize archers damage is a huge continuous spike. With quickshot an endgame archer can finish an endgame mage with his hax phys def in 6 seconds including charm. An endgame mage can only finish an endgame archer within 6 seconds if he uses sutra. I think quickshot is more versatile.

    And lastly, what i wanted to point out is that, with the same money invested, an archer is not worse than other classes endgame. I still think they are the best tanks endgame (i said, endgame DOES depend on money invested), quite good in 1v1 pvp and awesome in tw.

    We dont have damage spikes. I have met rank 8 archers, try Shinzoko, and NuPayne (both of which fail, but deal heavy damage).


    They just hit hard - by no means spikes. These hits are also hits that other classes can do without spending the $6,000 USD needed for Rank 8.


    You're whole point is just reaffirming the fact that you need to spend loads of money to meet the status quo (as an archer.)
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    KedgeSniper - Lost City wrote: »
    Over 50%...
    Then again.. that way over the edge. Unless yar adding up sharp n stunin arrow hell.. which in that case. Dont stack.
    i have 31% im sure some archer mite have 35%-40% With event cape/belt99/scroll tome.

    33% with hell passive.
    i confirmed earlier you can easily get 50% crit with endgame gear, look for the pwcalc link a page or two back.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • ewingoil
    ewingoil Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=fea75544d33758d8

    add demon sta, 50% crit. i still want pics though

    With only 3 points in vit and no citrine shards.

    I thought Archers shined after lvl 60 say.
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    ewingoil wrote: »
    With only 3 points in vit and no citrine shards.

    I thought Archers shined after lvl 60 say.

    add in the citrine shards yourself if it bothers you so much

    that was probably just to show how you'd get 50% crit with the crit buff from demon skills
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Fleuri - Sanctuary
    Fleuri - Sanctuary Posts: 1,763 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    angellicdeity wrote: »
    Our criticals merely take our damage onto the level of un-critted mages, clerics, etc.

    But our normal attack rate compares well with mage in essential sutra.

    If our damage always matched wizard damage, we would be totally overpowered.
  • angellicdeity
    angellicdeity Posts: 641 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    Fleuri - Sanctuary wrote: »
    But our normal attack rate compares well with mage in essential sutra.

    If our damage always matched wizard damage, we would be totally overpowered.

    You are looking too much from a PvE prospective.


    We do match wizard regular damage, you just need to spend $6000 on your Rank 8 Equipment. You'll be firing regular spikes all you want - hence we are totally overpowered (after you pay to win.)




    But naturally without $6000 we dont deal damage anywhere near a mages as far as PvP is concerned.



    In PvP (1 on 1) you are rarely given the time for your damage to accumulate over time.


    1) Stuns, seals, etc.
    2) Charms


    If your not being stunned, sealed, slept, you either have used an Anti-stun skill, or a vacuilty powder. To make hits matters inbetween stuns and seals - your damage has to be high.



    If your opponite is charmed - you only have 10 seconds to kill them before it ticks and replenishes their HP again. You also need to take into account they can use Pots (in particular event pots), genie skills, and natural skills to replenish their HP inbetween ticks.



    If your not dealing high hits you'll never get past the charm. Archers max out at 1 shot per second. So with 10 seconds you can shoot 10 times. Now 4 digit damage is not bad, thats 10K HP in 10 seconds in the worst case of 1000 hp per shot.



    But when you reach your 9x's you'll find everyone has high physical defense due to refines. You'll be dealing mid to high 3-digit damage. Mid 3-digit damage is nowhere near enough to break a charm.








    So in summary its fail or pay to win. Those are the only real choices you have as an archer at 9x and 10x in terms of PK/PvP.
  • TigerLily - Lost City
    TigerLily - Lost City Posts: 1,209 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    there is no way a barb would have 50-60% mag res unbuffed. the heavy 99 gold has like 100-200 less mag res per piece then light 90 green. and light 90 green only gives like 45-50% mag res unbuffed. and when i did the calculation i was using what i assume was a 9x barb's mag res.

    lvl 99 barb in 99 gold, mag def cloak, frost rings and +6-+8 mag def belt/neck gets over 50% magic def reduction pretty easy. Than if the barb also adds a couple of mag def shard and has 200+ points in vit added the magic reduction goes up to 55% unbuffed b:shocked

    If its a major cash shopper with insane stuff like warsong belt and cube necks +8-10 you will get past 60% and even more.

    A low 9X barb tho w/o event stuff in regular greens prolly ends up on around 45+% reduction unless hes vita build than obv more. Heavy armor with magic defense adorns is kinda OP compare to crappy LA.
  • warrenbaxter
    warrenbaxter Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    Blah Blah Blah..
  • warrenbaxter
    warrenbaxter Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    Most of u Mage supporters haven't heard about archers Skills called Wings of grace & Elven Alacrity.

    So learn first then speak....

    at the end Archers FTW.
  • Quizenbort - Dreamweaver
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    Soo irritating to read most of your posts I had to write another. Half of you obviously never probably read the first post.
    DarkHam - Harshlands wrote: »
    :(

    Im a level 68 archer(Avatar is glitched at 52..) and I always hear people saying that 90+ archers are fail compared to other classes.

    Is this true? If so why D: it's not very motivating

    Where did this discussion about lvl 100 barbs come from? The person who posted asked about 90+ can you all read??

    A lvl 100 with full mdef is going to take a few more shots.. is that what you want to hear? Lol its not like its much harder to kill. For a bunch of archers you all forget that Thunder does a 50% debuff to mental?

    No I will not post my build, No I will not post SS as I stated in my first post I am not here to teach you how to play your class. Figure out how to play on your own.

    While we are on the SS topic

    I got a better idea too, why don’t you all take SS of you failing and we can just start a thread of your SS called.. “Failed PW Archers (ez kills for the rest of us)” then it will not be a failed class, but more so a fail bunch of people. With your contributions the other archers will now know what builds not to use.
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    TigerLily - Lost City wrote: »
    A low 9X barb tho w/o event stuff in regular greens prolly ends up on around 45+% reduction unless hes vita build than obv more. Heavy armor with magic defense adorns is kinda OP compare to crappy LA.

    i am still having a hard time believing that a 9x barb with regular stuff can have over 45%. by regular i mean misties and maybe a mag neck/belt. that'll prob push it in to the high 30s, but dont' believe it'll be possible to break the 45% mark.
    Quizenbort - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    A lvl 100 with full mdef is going to take a few more shots.. is that what you want to hear? Lol its not like its much harder to kill. For a bunch of archers you all forget that Thunder does a 50% debuff to mental?

    No I will not post my build, No I will not post SS as I stated in my first post I am not here to teach you how to play your class. Figure out how to play on your own.
    50% metal debuff doesn't mean 50% reduction in mag resistance. more like 20-35%. No one cares about your build... all we want is a ss of the damage you did to a 9x barb. if you can't even provide that then its pretty clear your just blowing smoke out of your ****.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Devoted - Lost City
    Devoted - Lost City Posts: 3,634 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    how is this so hard to comprehend? with hh90 green alone you get 39%

    50% unbuffed, 60% buffed:

    http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=391b8d9190271a2e
  • DrkLordZ - Sanctuary
    DrkLordZ - Sanctuary Posts: 297 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    *sigh* i dont know what you mean they suck compared to other classes... 90 demon archer vs any arcane user. 1 demon quickshot = getting killed in under 6 seconds... Also, bm and barb with a pair of +50% accuracy rings are still going to miss a lot, they probably have no more then 2.5k accuracy, unless that barb uses blood bath. im level 80(dinged today but icon glitched at 79)and i have 3k evasion unbuffed.
    Please donate money into my mailbox :)

    I'm poor as heck.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    DrkLordZ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    *sigh* i dont know what you mean they suck compared to other classes... 90 demon archer vs any arcane user. 1 demon quickshot = getting killed in under 6 seconds... Also, bm and barb with a pair of +50% accuracy rings are still going to miss a lot, they probably have no more then 2.5k accuracy, unless that barb uses blood bath. im level 80(dinged today but icon glitched at 79)and i have 3k evasion unbuffed.

    2k acc without misties

    vit axe build fails please stop treating them as the "standard" for bm's otherwise the multipath bm thats actually put effort into their toon will facerape the hell out of you

    and keep in mind that arcanes with phys shards can have scary high phys resist (up to 10k+ on wizzies) venos have heavy clerics have shell psys have voodoo

    just how it works
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Lusca - Sanctuary
    Lusca - Sanctuary Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    2k acc without misties

    vit axe build fails please stop treating them as the "standard" for bm's otherwise the multipath bm thats actually put effort into their toon will facerape the hell out of you

    and keep in mind that arcanes with phys shards can have scary high phys resist (up to 10k+ on wizzies) venos have heavy clerics have shell psys have voodoo

    just how it works

    a psy with there defense voodoo can just be laughed at when they hit you softer than the level 1 beetles
  • Shadowvzs - Lost City
    Shadowvzs - Lost City Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    acher never fail(i have experience only with pure dex build), after 80-90 the pattack greatly increasing time by time, only few times you must use your head instead hit hit hit and die :)

    ok i am not this aarcher but u are enough good with a regular refine lv too (5-7), this archer is the best atm in pw my who spent alot money

    http://i45.tinypic.com/148f9mu.jpg
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »
    a psy with there defense voodoo can just be laughed at when they hit you softer than the level 1 beetles

    DOT's arent affected by attack level neither is soulforce

    if you cant figure out the aplications of this please stop posting now
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Lusca - Sanctuary
    Lusca - Sanctuary Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    DOT's arent affected by attack level neither is soulforce

    if you cant figure out the aplications of this please stop posting now

    oh yes a psys DoTs are really going to kill someone on there own lol

    if a psy has there defense voodoo on and that skill that makes you take damage equal to there soul force when they attack, well it doesn't take that much brain power to realize NOT TO ATTACK
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »
    oh yes a psys DoTs are really going to kill someone on there own lol

    if a psy has there defense voodoo on and that skill that makes you take damage equal to there soul force when they attack, well it doesn't take that much brain power to realize NOT TO ATTACK
    tell that to the idiots who duel venomancers who happen to have 2 sparks avaliable...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Lusca - Sanctuary
    Lusca - Sanctuary Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    tell that to the idiots who duel venomancers who happen to have 2 sparks avaliable...

    lol there are always idiots online


    i thought they changed it so the reflect only worked in pve not pvp thou o.O
    in pvp you only got the damage reduction
  • WaffleChan - Sanctuary
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary Posts: 2,897 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    read carefullly, notice the word DUEL?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    advice to fledgling archers:
    Going sage is like drunken sex, at first she may look good, but when you wake up the next morning; you'll look at her and go WHAT HAVE I DONE.
  • Lusca - Sanctuary
    Lusca - Sanctuary Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    WaffleChan - Sanctuary wrote: »
    read carefullly, notice the word DUEL?

    last i checked a duel was still a fight between two players so it is still a player vs player so it's still pvp

    a duel isn't pve now is it?
  • Shadowvzs - Lost City
    Shadowvzs - Lost City Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »
    last i checked a duel was still a fight between two players so it is still a player vs player so it's still pvp

    a duel isn't pve now is it?

    duel is a fake pvp because u cant use anything (heal pot/charm), its pvp with restriction.

    in pk have difference, more real factors (indifferent in arena,dp,world,tw etc)
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    Lusca - Sanctuary wrote: »
    oh yes a psys DoTs are really going to kill someone on there own lol

    if a psy has there defense voodoo on and that skill that makes you take damage equal to there soul force when they attack, well it doesn't take that much brain power to realize NOT TO ATTACK

    you my good sir underestimate the power of stupidity

    and yes red tide could easily kill a arcane on its own when maxed after a charm tick off of the other DOT's the psys have

    remember these are full damage DoT's not add damage spells that have a DoT tacked on
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • DrkLordZ - Sanctuary
    DrkLordZ - Sanctuary Posts: 297 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    Shadowvzs - Lost City wrote: »
    duel is a fake pvp because u cant use anything (heal pot/charm), its pvp with restriction.

    in pk have difference, more real factors (indifferent in arena,dp,world,tw etc)

    you cant use charm but still can use food and pots, thats how i beat my first 90 bm, the only thing that sucks about that is that they QQ like **** crazy
    Please donate money into my mailbox :)

    I'm poor as heck.
  • Lusca - Sanctuary
    Lusca - Sanctuary Posts: 754 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Options
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    you my good sir underestimate the power of stupidity

    and yes red tide could easily kill a arcane on its own when maxed after a charm tick off of the other DOT's the psys have

    remember these are full damage DoT's not add damage spells that have a DoT tacked on

    stupid people don't count >=[
    and if i see a psychic with defense voodoo i'm not going to just stand around while they cast 2 spark skills on me
    DrkLordZ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    you cant use charm but still can use food and pots, thats how i beat my first 90 bm, the only thing that sucks about that is that they QQ like **** crazy

    because in the unwritten rules you don't use pots in a duel
    this your first mmorpg?
  • Archers_Soul - Lost City
    Archers_Soul - Lost City Posts: 746 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Options
    end game archers arent fail if they figth some one with less skill or worst armor than them. some one with equally good or just as good skill as them is a different story.
    I don't care how old or young you are, how small your **** is, how much of a nerd irl you are or how depressed you are that you never will get laid. There is no reason to act like an A-hole to everyone on an mmorpg. Its a shame that I have to take time out of my day to tell people "stop being an A-hole". So I end with this, if your acting like an A-hole, and some one tells you your being an A-hole chances are your being an A-hole.
  • Shadowvzs - Lost City
    Shadowvzs - Lost City Posts: 877 Arc User
    edited January 2010
    Options
    DrkLordZ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    you cant use charm but still can use food and pots, thats how i beat my first 90 bm, the only thing that sucks about that is that they QQ like **** crazy

    potion useage not allowed where i play (in duel) and charm != potion usegae, far not....

    try beat a barb in duel and in pvp and you will see the charm is important (in veno cause he got 2 "hiero", 1 skill hp/mp switch and hiero, this more harder than without hiero).

    etc etc

    duel != real pvp/pk

Categories