In case of a fail squad, what to do?

Kupuntu - Sanctuary
Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
edited December 2009 in General Discussion
So, you decide to do your BH with a random squad. I take BH39 as an example. Squad consists of 2 DDs, 1 cleric, 1 barb, 1 veno and 1 BM. Everything goes fine until the boss. You see that one of the DDs grab aggro and is going to die.

Seems familiar, right? I am pretty sure most of us have seen that. Since my main is BM I have access to a powerful skill: Cloud Sprint. It can really save myself sometimes. But, is it right to GTFO as fast as you or should I run in and try to save the day? It seems that people always think that BMs and barbs should come running and try to save others. If, on the other hand, you are a veno or some other squishy class there's not much you can do for others. Sometimes even I feel myself so squishy that I'll only kill myself if I get aggro. Any thoughts what is right?
100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
Post edited by Kupuntu - Sanctuary on
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Comments

  • Barbariankev - Heavens Tear
    Barbariankev - Heavens Tear Posts: 831 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    let them die

    and ress them later
    its impossible to always do the right thing we all make mistakes i am not different from that
    just try to be a good person

    english isn't my native language so there might be a few spelling/grammatical errors in my posts
  • DrDrakken - Lost City
    DrDrakken - Lost City Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Barbariankev - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    let them die

    and ress them later

    b:victory
    b:laugh
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  • FranzKafka - Dreamweaver
    FranzKafka - Dreamweaver Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    I have both a barb char and a DD.I have to say that if the DD gets aggro it's mainly the fault of the barb,but anyway it can happen without beeing someones fault.Question is why the barb doesn't flesh ream the aggro back?
    Btw I've noticed bosses and mobs use cloud sprint when you use it.
  • Meeplk - Harshlands
    Meeplk - Harshlands Posts: 461 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    because when lets say a archer demon sparks gets 10 crits in a row= aggro
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    magic mmmb:dirty
  • FranzKafka - Dreamweaver
    FranzKafka - Dreamweaver Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    First of all he was speaking about noob BHs 39,51,59 pretty much.Second I hope when a party is 90+they know a little about aggro control.Sure with all this oracle noobs around that get to 90+in 10 days and have no idea what a boss fight is about the Fail msg will appear on the screen and many will die.Then again at that lvl who will choose the oracle noob over an experienced player?Suicide and I'm not emo enough to do that.
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    FranzKafka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I have both a barb char and a DD.I have to say that if the DD gets aggro it's mainly the fault of the barb,but anyway it can happen without beeing someones fault.Question is why the barb doesn't flesh ream the aggro back?
    Btw I've noticed bosses and mobs use cloud sprint when you use it.

    Yeah the bosses seem to be a bit faster if you use cloud sprint but the BM doesn't get aggro that often compared to DD-classes.
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • IDaun - Dreamweaver
    IDaun - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    If you save yourself, then the squad will hate you and probably never squad with you again. It's probably only one of the people's fault, though (I'd say either the barb or the DD, depending on what was said, done before the boss, and char levels).

    In BH39, though, be prepared to run into a lot of fails (I've had a cleric that thought that it was 'hard to heal 5 people at once' and town tele'd on farren) because quite frankly, 5x isn't that high. You can get that high doing nothing but mindlessly killing easy mobs. Then again, you can get to any level doing that. If you want a complete 100% chance to not run into failures at those levels... don't do random squads.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=7660692001&dateline=1259283228[/SIGPIC]
  • DrDrakken - Lost City
    DrDrakken - Lost City Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    FranzKafka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I have both a barb char and a DD.I have to say that if the DD gets aggro it's mainly the fault of the barb,but anyway it can happen without beeing someones fault.Question is why the barb doesn't flesh ream the aggro back?
    Btw I've noticed bosses and mobs use cloud sprint when you use it.

    because its in cd and the DD keeps on DDing they're **** off ?b:laugh

    uh, they dont actually use sprint, its just a reflection of the animation of the skill on the mob. not sure why it happens but it happens with some other skills too (I.E. the marrows, and when you use earthflame sometimes it looks like you usedit on a squad member :P)
    [SIGPIC]T.T[/SIGPIC]
    (best i could do T_T)
    b:cryYou were the best CM everb:cry

    August 12 - I'm officially 15 b:pleased
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    IDaun - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    If you save yourself, then the squad will hate you and probably never squad with you again. It's probably only one of the people's fault, though (I'd say either the barb or the DD, depending on what was said, done before the boss, and char levels).

    In BH39, though, be prepared to run into a lot of fails (I've had a cleric that thought that it was 'hard to heal 5 people at once' and town tele'd on farren) because quite frankly, 5x isn't that high. You can get that high doing nothing but mindlessly killing easy mobs. Then again, you can get to any level doing that. If you want a complete 100% chance to not run into failures at those levels... don't do random squads.

    But random squads are fun. Much more fun than getting 8x to solo it for me. I don't like that at all. b:surrender
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • Vitenka - Dreamweaver
    Vitenka - Dreamweaver Posts: 4,125 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    There's nothing funnier than one 5x and 5 8x's running 39. Running is most certainly the right word :)

    Anyway - yeah. Your job as secondary tank is to jump in and save the cleric. If the cleric lives, you all live.

    Save the blacklisting for afterwards.
  • IDaun - Dreamweaver
    IDaun - Dreamweaver Posts: 261 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    But random squads are fun. Much more fun than getting 8x to solo it for me. I don't like that at all. b:surrender

    I have a few friends around my level that I constantly call on to do BHs with (we even did BH39 Trioc with a 49 wizzie (me), a 51 Cleric and a 52 veno). The cleric completely pwns, and whenever she has the same BH as me (she levels faster) I do BH with her.

    Random squads are fun, yeah, but, if you wanna do them, you gotta accept that 1) squad wipes are a way of life and 2) if you save yourself and drop squad people are gonna go "WTF?" Dunno why.

    But it really depends on the situation. Cloud sprinting as soon as the DD steals aggro isn't very good. Cloud sprinting when the boss has chewed out everyone else and is after you is understandable.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=7660692001&dateline=1259283228[/SIGPIC]
  • ShiroiAurion - Heavens Tear
    ShiroiAurion - Heavens Tear Posts: 73 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    As the cleric, I'd say: Please grab the aggro before the boss runs on a rampage and decides to kill me too. Every second you can give the barb the chance to get aggro back is worth the risk. If you survive, that's great. If you die but we live, I'll rez you. Otherwise... Having a party wipe is the second worst scenario.
    If you run and survive while I have to go to town, I will eat your guts. b:angry

    And you'll probably beat yourself up too over being stuck in that dungeon alone, just because you wanted to save 0.5% xp.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • PartyAnimal - Harshlands
    PartyAnimal - Harshlands Posts: 693 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    If a barb can't keep aggro on crappy BH39 he just fails and should reroll asap.
  • JollyJaguar - Sanctuary
    JollyJaguar - Sanctuary Posts: 431 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »

    If, on the other hand, you are a veno or some other squishy class there's not much you can do for others.

    Orly? b:thanks

    Don't forget we veno's might be squishy, but our pets arent.
    Ofcourse there's nothing we can do if a DD steals aggro without a particular reason. But let's say the cleric lagged, so the tank died. This is where a good veno tells everyone to stop attacking and let her pet grab aggro.. once this stage succeeded the pet goes on manual, so it follows its master. Veno runs around while the boss is chasing her and her pet. In the meanwhile the cleric has time to res the tank and rebuff... Tank grabs aggro back and voila.. veno saved the day b:victory
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • FranzKafka - Dreamweaver
    FranzKafka - Dreamweaver Posts: 345 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    JollyJaguar - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Orly? b:thanks

    Don't forget we veno's might be squishy, but our pets arent.
    Ofcourse there's nothing we can do if a DD steals aggro without a particular reason. But let's say the cleric lagged, so the tank died. This is where a good veno tells everyone to stop attacking and let her pet grab aggro.. once this stage succeeded the pet goes on manual, so it follows its master. Veno runs around while the boss is chasing her and her pet. In the meanwhile the cleric has time to res the tank and rebuff... Tank grabs aggro back and voila.. veno saved the day b:victory
    Flowers and chocolate to all venos b:kiss
    That's why I always have a veno in my squad,well actually because I'm a bramble addict.
  • Jibreel - Harshlands
    Jibreel - Harshlands Posts: 157 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    blame the barb -.-
  • JollyJaguar - Sanctuary
    JollyJaguar - Sanctuary Posts: 431 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    FranzKafka - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Flowers and chocolate to all venos b:kiss
    That's why I always have a veno in my squad,well actually because I'm a bramble addict.

    I <3 you
    Jibreel - Harshlands wrote: »
    blame the barb -.-

    I dont blame the barb. It could be anyone's fault. DDs DDing too much, they should know how to hold back, Cleric who might've let the tank die or yes, the barb who forgot to spam aggro skills :P

    Either way human's make mistakes. I dont get mad from squadwipes. I actually enjoy them. :P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Conavar - Heavens Tear
    Conavar - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,193 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Never Run.

    As a Bm its your Squad role to off tank and protect the others.
    The Cleric is the main priority to save but protect the others as best you can, and yes sometimes "protecting" them means dying.

    My view point is: If the squads going to wipe then Im going down with them.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Cloud sprinting out when a DD grabs aggro? Fail.

    Cloud/summer sprinting out when Farren/Wyvern/Rankar's AOE kills the cleric and you have aggro? Win.
    Never Run.

    As a Bm its your Squad role to off tank and protect the others.
    The Cleric is the main priority to save but protect the others as best you can, and yes sometimes "protecting" them means dying.

    My view point is: If the squads going to wipe then Im going down with them.

    Sometimes running is the only way to save the squad. As a BM, at General Wurlord. Barb was outside BB and died, I had aggro, ran pulling Wurlord after me. I died, but not before getting him out of range of the rest of the squad. Squad wipe averted.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »

    My view point is: If the squads going to wipe then Im going down with them.

    I agree. I fight to last breath.b:thanks
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Damaged - Lost City
    Damaged - Lost City Posts: 460 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    If you're a mage, sutra portal and see how long it takes them to find out.

    Otherwise just do a witty one liner and leave squad
  • Panthalassa - Dreamweaver
    Panthalassa - Dreamweaver Posts: 319 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    PartyAnimal - Harshlands wrote: »
    If a barb can't keep aggro on crappy BH39 he just fails at should reroll asap.

    This. I've played as a tank in other games (I don't like it personally, but that's just me) and I've found that spamming aggro skills as much as possible helps to keep aggro. Remember, the tank can never have too much aggro.
    Also Known As: Sora_Kaiyou

    I got tired of my avatar not showing up. b:sad
  • Conavar - Heavens Tear
    Conavar - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,193 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Cloud/summer sprinting out when Farren/Wyvern/Rankar's AOE kills the cleric and you have aggro? Win.

    Sometimes running is the only way to save the squad. As a BM, at General Wurlord. Barb was outside BB and died, I had aggro, ran pulling Wurlord after me. I died, but not before getting him out of range of the rest of the squad. Squad wipe averted.

    That Imo is a differant kind of running than what the OP was talking about. What you mention is luring the boss away from the squad and is part of what we can do to save a wipe, sacrificing yourself to do so.

    The OP's running was more " OMG Im going die!! Run to hills " to save his own skin. b:chuckle

    Let me rephrase what I ment by "Never run" : Never abandon your Squad.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear
    AdvanceZero - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,413 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    If tank dies etc... grab aggro and run.

    Why?

    This gives time for the cleric to rez tank. Rebuff.

    Just keep running when you see everyone is back up and living...run right at the barb. He "should" flesh ream which will grab aggro immediately.

    If cleric died. You run to exit. Once you get out boss aggro will reset. And you start again.
    Retired

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Kupuntu - Sanctuary
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary Posts: 3,008 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    That Imo is a differant kind of running than what the OP was talking about. What you mention is luring the boss away from the squad and is part of what we can do to save a wipe, sacrificing yourself to do so.

    The OP's running was more " OMG Im going die!! Run to hills " to save his own skin. b:chuckle

    Let me rephrase what I ment by "Never run" : Never abandon your Squad.

    Okay, who wants to donate some free Guardian Scrolls to not lose my EXP? Not you? Damn. Yeah, sacrifice yourself to save some random noobs is pointless. If they can't do it, why should I be able to do their work too? Btw as I just did Farren with two 5x BMs (one being me as a tank), 5x cleric, 5x **** and 5x archer, I saw that once the tank loses aggro it's pretty much game over. In the rare cases where I got the aggro before anyone else rushed in, everything was fine, and when that didn't happen things got ugly. So, just scream RUN! and get running if you are tanking and die or lose aggro.

    ITT: Why should I do something for people when I know they wouldn't do it to me?
    100% F2P player. Started PW: March 2007, Quit PW: March 2011.
    pwcalc.com/e7016929e7b204ae "Pure axe" 8k HP multipath BM, last one of my kind.
  • Seika_Chi - Dreamweaver
    Seika_Chi - Dreamweaver Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    im a veno and i can't help myself but grab agro so as many as possible can get out xD ... well that would be mostly when in squad with friends but still ... do what seems best ... run if nothing left to do
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  • Aadi - Lost City
    Aadi - Lost City Posts: 4,449 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    As a cleric, I used to always stay and heal whoever had aggro, hoping that even if the tank died we could manage.

    I've lately taken to scanning the squad list, and if there are no other suitable tanks, I just book it out of there. If they all die and I ress them, they lose .1% exp, but I have no one to ress me. I'm sure they understand as the 7x wizard tries to tank pole.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Worship - Harshlands
    Worship - Harshlands Posts: 178 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Never Run.

    As a Bm its your Squad role to off tank and protect the others.
    The Cleric is the main priority to save but protect the others as best you can, and yes sometimes "protecting" them means dying.

    My view point is: If the squads going to wipe then Im going down with them.

    My favorite kinda of BM b:victory
  • Boozin - Sanctuary
    Boozin - Sanctuary Posts: 183 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Okay, who wants to donate some free Guardian Scrolls to not lose my EXP? Not you? Damn. Yeah, sacrifice yourself to save some random noobs is pointless.

    not to loose exp? NOT TO LOOSE EXP? ... okay, I read the whole thread and it might not be speaking to what OP was on about, but the idea of "I never want to rez to town, I just want to lie dead on the floor waiting for a rez" makes me personally very unhappy. I have worked with squads before where ppl characters have died and rather than take a small exp hit just sit there dead crying for a rez.. suck it up there princess and either take the exp hit and get back asap or get your own Guardian Scrolls... and why you would need to do either on bh39 is beyond me......
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear
    Cernunnosx - Heavens Tear Posts: 384 Arc User
    edited December 2009
    Kupuntu - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Okay, who wants to donate some free Guardian Scrolls to not lose my EXP? Not you? Damn. Yeah, sacrifice yourself to save some random noobs is pointless. If they can't do it, why should I be able to do their work too? Btw as I just did Farren with two 5x BMs (one being me as a tank), 5x cleric, 5x **** and 5x archer, I saw that once the tank loses aggro it's pretty much game over. In the rare cases where I got the aggro before anyone else rushed in, everything was fine, and when that didn't happen things got ugly. So, just scream RUN! and get running if you are tanking and die or lose aggro.

    ITT: Why should I do something for people when I know they wouldn't do it to me?

    ^^ Attitudes like that is Why Bm's have a bad rep as a class. When doing anything in a Squad wether that FB/Bh/FF/TT etc it shouldnt matter if its a squad of your best friends or complete strangers, you should give 100% to that squad to help get things done.

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