Archers and Rebirth

angellicdeity wrote: »

Quite honestly, all this talk from you is taking away from the overall helpfulness of your RB guide.

These are the first sentences of my post "

I have been writing a Rebirth Beta guide for some time now. First I would like to point out and state up front I am not the most knowledgeable or experienced Rebirth Archer.

That is why I would like helpful, positive feedback and general archer community approval on what I have written about our class responsibilities, required and helpful skills to max, general rebirth tips and required or helpful genie skills.

Gear is not something I am including in the guide right now. That discussion I hope remains closed.

Please add anything intelligent or anything you feel is helpful or correct information I have written that may be wrong.

Please refrain from referencing RB level specific situations outside of Beta. For example: "You need 3k hp unbuffed for Gamma, you should shard with HP". That is irrelevant here. This information pertains to Gamma and gear is not being discussed."

I believe you don't understand what I am talking about. What I am referencing on the most recent posts are relevant and are valuable to the guide itself. Or might have been. I decided not to add the information in question. It will not be included. I believe if you read EVERYTHING from post one to this point you would understand that better. Asking a GM or Admin if using what other archers consider to be a valuable and important technique in RB is legal is the right thing to do and it is important.

It does not detract from the guide, which is not complete or in it's entirety. However what does detract from the usefulness of the thread is people discrediting and downplaying what I'm trying to do and posting without reading and comprehending the situation from post #2 until now.

angellicdeity wrote: »

Read LLama's guide and figure out what needs to be done.

I'm writing my own guide and it contains general information regarding what an archer essentially needs to do in all RB. My guide is more tailored to Beta that is the RB which I have experienced several times. There is many other pages with detailed information. This is the archer section, I did not post all of my document.

angellicdeity wrote: »

There is no guide or "tips" for an archer in rebirth. Its a team effort. You have to adapt to the situation.Exspecially considering you obviously havent had experience with the higher levelled rebirth orders (Goddess Valley - GV.) The tips for your Beta are good for Beta. But when it comes to the higher levelled rebirths the strategy changes a bit. Its a party strategy - not an individual strategy.

This is for Beta. I don't presume to know the outcome of all possible situations. This information describes general responsibilities, the full document encompasses the purpose and other information about Beta and Rebirth in general in great detail. While Rebirth is a team driven goal based instance everyone needs to do their part to make the team successful.

My opening sentences included "First I would like to point out and state up front I am not the most knowledgeable or experienced Rebirth Archer." I'm not writing a document to cover every instance in the game.

angellicdeity wrote: »

No much to say - sharp tooth, open zhen on the gods eye (if you need the target simply assist attack your cleric - they'll always have the gods-eye targetted.) Place yourself outside of the God Eye's damage dealing range. Otherwise when you die, you'll be back at 1000K streams. When the stunning/sleeper monsters come in Delta, use a vaculty powder. Do not to use a knock-back skill when they are bunched together.

It's more complex than that and more specifically when it comes to players who are first learning Rebirth or don't know what it is or what to do. The complete document explains what Beta is and how to get duty badges, orders the goals inside beta, which npcs to talk to, running quests, auras and other important information. It's not as simple as that in my opinion. If you believe that is all an archer needs to do and if it is that simple, that is your opinion, you are entitled to that. If that is what you would tell a first time RB archer, your method of preparing them is different than mine as well.

If you can remember your first run, You did not know what to do, unless you read about it or someone told you or you learned on your own. This is to save newcomers from the wasted time, money and potential squad failures that come with learning everything on their own. It's helpful to know what RB is, and what happens inside and what you need to do for your part. Having a basic understanding of that is a good foundation to have before ever stepping inside.

angellicdeity wrote: »

Most importantly - be flexible. Reading a guide and a real GV run are two different things.

Your right. When the time comes I will study that and write something about that too because it is not the same.

angellicdeity wrote: »

If you take the mindset to follow everything from a guide you will fail Delta and **** off everyone else in the party who invested a charm into the darn thing.

The idea of a guide is not to replace a players thinking or basic instincts. You recommended yourself to read someone elses guide:

angellicdeity wrote: »

Read LLama's guide and figure out what needs to be done.

It is to help them understand what Rebirth is, And what types of skills they need and what basic responsibilities they have. Not more. It is up to the player to have a basic understanding of what needs to get done, and learn on their own from there. This is not a universal guide to RB or anything else.

angellicdeity wrote: »

When you can, if you can, max your barrage by 85 for GV Delta. Max your sharptooth too.

Good advice. I included that already for beta.


Regards.

angellicdeity wrote: »

Since your not here, you wont read this anyways.

This entire conversation since the first page has continued with you rejecting what has already been confirmed and said. Every archer who is higher than you, every archer who is probably more experienced than you, and generally mostly every party involved GM's, players or otherwise have said the same thing. Its allowed.

Hi. While im in the neighborhood,

Please direct me to the post where a GM has said the Zhen ability is allowed to be used in Rebirth.

We were discussing "Zhenning" NOT Barrrage of arrows. This is part of Zhenning:

While in a party, initiate a duel and lower the other players HP to a critical amount. Launch Barrage of Arrows and finish the duel with that particular skill. The target does not die in a duel so the skill continues to operate. While the skill continues to operate, the target does not receive damage and the skill effect remains tracking the target because the target has not been detected as dead.

That does not equate to using Barrage of Arrows on a target and calling it a day when the target is dead. There is a difference between using Barrage of Arrows and Zhenning.

angellicdeity wrote: »

You keep rebuking our statements saying that you would rather have a GM or Administrator reconfirm something they've already clearly stated.

Please direct me to the post which confirms Zhenning is allowed in Rebirth. To the best of my knowledge nobody has officially posted that. I will once again re-post my words from post 19.

Here is what Administrator xarfox has posted on page 21 post # 202:

"As it stands right now, the skill description reads that it's supposed to continue until canceled or until the user runs out of mana.

Currently the Wizard AoE spell functions properly. You can target a monster or a player, and after the target dies the spell continues, as stated in the description.

We will not be banning archers for using this ability for Zhenning as the skill description states that the skill is supposed to continue until canceled."


There is a problem with this. Zhenning is not defined. Xarfox called it an ability "to be used for Zhenning". He did not define Zhenning. He recognizes it is not simply using Barrage of arrows he said specifically "Ability".

So in your own opinion please define it or direct me to the thread where PWI Officially defines it.

angellicdeity wrote: »

Xarfox's word, end of storey.

Please explain how what he said ( Posted above ) gives archers permission to use the Zhen ability ( Again his words ) in Rebirth.

angellicdeity wrote: »

Your right I learned from other people - but your information isn't very special - its not something I couldn't lookup in the various rebirth guides in the dungeons section. Its not something I couldn't see in the various videos available.

Perhaps your right. And that's fine. I'm writing a guide for RB BETA. I said it before, this is a small component of the complete guide. There is other information contained within it. This consolidates the ( In your words ) "various rebirth guides in the dungeons section and the "various videos" except it contains general information for RB beginners as well as Beta specific information.

angellicdeity wrote: »

You started out fine - but all this repeated nonsense about whether its right to use barrage on a Gods Eye or on a fellow rebirth member is a bit of nonsense.

I'll repeat myself again.:

We were discussing "Zhenning" NOT Barrrage of arrows. This is part of Zhenning:

While in a party, initiate a duel and lower the other players HP to a critical amount. Launch Barrage of Arrows and finish the duel with that particular skill. The target does not die in a duel so the skill continues to operate. While the skill continues to operate, the target does not receive damage and the skill effect remains tracking the target because the target has not been detected as dead.

That does not equate to using Barrage of Arrows on a target and calling it a day when the target is dead. Xarfox even referred to it as an Ability because it is not normal operation.

angellicdeity wrote: »

Then what makes your guide special? Again its something that could be looked up in the dungeon section, and without pages of nonsense about the "morality of posting information on how to zhen."

angellicdeity wrote: »

Then what makes your guide special?

Thats just something petty and ridiculous to derail the focus of the thread sorry. This thread is not about morality it is supposed to be about archer responsibilities in RB. Because of the Zhen ability I think it is good and necessary to ask about it before I say it can be used. Unfortunately other forum users are making it about everything else, instead of letting a qualified representative answer the question should they choose to do that.

angellicdeity wrote: »

Then what makes your guide special? Again its something that could be looked up in the dungeon section, and without pages of nonsense about the "morality of posting information on how to zhen."

The Zhen strategy was brought to my attention. To be courteous to people reading the thread, I summarized what the 29 pages of the post was about. so they wouldn't have to investigate. I then said I would include the Zhen technique if an administrator would confirm it was allowed to be used in RB. I asked an administrator and waited for a response so I would not have to have these types of conversations with forum users like you. But here I am lol. I said it before and I'll repeat myself once again, THIS IS NOT THE ENTIRE GUIDE. This is the Archer portion the rest RB and other class information is explained in the complete document. It was posted here to to get any additional advice from other Archers in case I forgot something or they have a good piece of information to add.

angellicdeity wrote: »

Take time to reflect on your content rather than telling me to re-read your posts.

That's good advice for you. Are you finished now? Have a good day.

Regards

Falcondance - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Foltern...

Why? It's as if your mask came down and the real you was seen in this thread. I fail to understand why you must be as precise as requiring such an individualized admin/GM post when killing monsters in GV can also be very legally construed as Zhenning for exp and thus the technique would still be completely and infallibly legal even if a GM/Admin had not deemed it to or intended it to be such.

Hi, I'm not sure what to say about that. I am a bit saddened you feel that way.

I asked a GM to verify it for me because all the users in the game can say yes or no and argue about it over 29 pages and 282 posts.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=102241&highlight=barrage+glitch

At the end of the day, What the GM and Admin says is what goes. I thought it's better to ask them. I understand what the Admin said differently than everyone else I suppose. But rather than make it derail into a a thread the link contains I just thought the right thing to do is to just ask about it. I only wanted to ask about it nothing else. I think it's better to clarify it before I publish the 15 page guide and say it's okay to do something which may actually get someone banned. In my type of work mistakes ruin your reputation and destroy job opportunities. I do my best not to assume something which I feel leaves great room for questions.

Instead of letting that go its course I have people trying to pick apart every small thing and treat me like I'm stupid for only wanting to ask about it to make sure. I feel should at least explain myself when confronted with that kind unwarranted abuse or post what I actually said. I don't feel I have been unjust in my responses or that my words are disproportionate to what has been said to me.

I agree completely with you actually. your opinion is very logical and reasonable, that is what I would think.

However, I don't know that and the way the Admin gave permission to use this technique seemed very specific and not all encompassing.

The Admin did not say that it was permitted in RB even though RB was mentioned in the 29 page flame fest. Regardless I feel it's better to ask than to assume that. I don't understand why people are getting so upset that I just want to ask before I post my completed document. I feel like it's a reasonable question to ask and that it is a good idea to have it confirmed by PWI.

Also sorry to anyone who feels I am being unfair to them or attacking them. That is not my intention or what I want to do. I only wanted to post my question to a GM or Admin many posts ago with hopes of getting an answer, not more.

I said already on post 32 I will not include it in my document, if it is permitted or not. I don't see any further reason for people to nourish and continue discussing either case. Truly I don't want to continue interacting with community members on this level or galvanizing what I already reported to guard against needless uncivil hostility.

I will continue to watch for helpful RB related information to improve what I had originally posted.

Regards

Dasypogon - Harshlands wrote: »

If you want to talk with PWI staff, and not with players, you should be using http://support.perfectworld.com and not http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com

Hi, There are hundreds of threads in which players post queries to PWI staff. I was under the notion it is plausible and acceptable for a forum user to do that because for moderation an Administrator will be reading it. I have no problem if I am wrong about that ^^.

I did in fact check the forum rules before asking and I found nothing. In the politest way possible I would like to ask that you or anyone else post information pertaining to Rebirth strategies other than Zhenning. I requested that and have attempted to end that discussion several posts ago.

PWI Community Forums: Rules of Conduct v1.0:

"14. Keep posts on-topic.
Keep the topic in mind when you post. Refrain from posting irrelevant information"

Please keep focus on other Rebirth strategies moving forward. I don't feeel it is relevant to discuss it anymore. I have already said on post 32 it will not be added to the document regardless.

The way I understand it: If I were to use the Ticket system to learn the answer to this I may be disallowed to share the direct words from the proper source with the community.:

8. No posting of personal conversations or personal information (from IMs or PMs).
Topics such as these are considered breaches of privacy. Please refrain from posting such items including, but not limited to, email exchanges with GMs, admins, moderators, PWE Customer Service or personal communications with other members.

Dasypogon - Harshlands wrote: »

Meanwhile, from a read-and-understand point of view, xarfox gave the reason that people would not be banned for "using this skill in http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=979261#post979261

I will not fully quote him and my inferences yet again. I have already articulated my thoughts about this. I would like discussion about this to stop or the thread to get locked.

Dasypogon - Harshlands wrote: »

In my opinion, you are not reading and understanding if you think that that rationale does not apply to rebirth.

There is one very large difference between what I am saying and what others are saying. I am not asserting my own personal interpretation of what Xarfox posted as fact.

Dasypogon - Harshlands wrote: »

The forums are not an appropriate place to tell everyone they are not your intended audience.

I did not post that at all. I posed a question to a PWI employee. And to the individual on post 20 expounding my interpretation is "ridiculous nonsense", my rebuttal was "You are not an Administrator or a GM. You are neither qualified nor empowered to interpret what Xarfox posted on behalf of PWI." I asked a GM or Admin to confirm this to avoid detestation from the forum users who have the audacity and perniciousness to blitzkrieg altruistic thread makers.

Instead predicating my opinion I simply asked for clarification because I understood the information differently. I did so in an attempt to avoid the debate which accompanies user opinion about it. Had I know it was considered unacceptable to do so by the community, or that it would put my aptitude under heavy scrutiny I would not have done that and overshadowed this thread or perhaps I would not have created the thread to begin with.

If I can request it, Please discuss other Rebirth related techniques. ^__^. Thank you for your cooperation and politeness.

Regards