Archers and Rebirth
Foltern - Sanctuary
Posts: 517 Arc User
Hi fellow Archers ^^,
Where to start..I have been writing a Rebirth Beta guide for some time now. First I would like to point out and state up front I am not the most knowledgeable or experienced Rebirth Archer.
That is why I would like helpful, positive feedback and general archer community approval on what I have written about our class responsibilities, required and helpful skills to max, general rebirth tips and required or helpful genie skills.
Gear is not something I am including in the guide right now. That discussion I hope remains closed.
Please add anything intelligent or anything you feel is helpful or correct information I have written that may be wrong.
Please refrain from referencing RB level specific situations outside of Beta. For example: "You need 3k hp unbuffed for Gamma, you should shard with HP". That is irrelevant here. This information pertains to Gamma and gear is not being discussed.
Another example: You need ( Insert xxx ) to kill ( Insert boss or mob name ), unless it is beta specific please stick to general information which can be applied to beta and above, like skills, genie advice or strategic information..
Your help improving this information is greatly appreciated. Thank you to all polite and helpful responses in advance.
Edit: This is NOT the full guide. This is the archer section only. There are many more components in the final guide which explain RB, what it is, how to start, the requirements and such.
- Your main job as an archer is too keep Barrage of Arrows operating at all times possible during combat and fixed on Gods Eye. You must use Sharpened tooth arrow on each boss and use both Sharpened Tooth Arrow and Thunderous Blast on mobs in the first few waves as well when Gods Eye is not available. Your secondary responsibility is farming Celebeans.
- It can be recommended to use assist attack on the Barbarian or Blademaster in the first waves when trying to select a mob, then use AOE attack skills. If you randomly click inside groups of mobs or you may travel across the landscape from your position without selecting any mobs.
- In the first waves, if you decide to use Barrage of Arrows try not to select the same increased life mob as the Blademaster, the mob will die very fast and you will not be able to cast a second time without using a Golden Jade powder or attacking Gods Eye. Before casting Barrage of Arrows for the first time, it is a good idea to cast Sharpened Tooth Arrow first.
- In the first waves, if you decide not to use Barrage of Arrows, you should use Sharpened tooth arrow and Thunderous Blast for AOE attacks. Do not single attack mobs if those skills are not in cool down and are available for use. A strategy that can be used it positioning with duel Archer squads: Te archer with the strongest Sharpened Tooth Arrow on the right side of Gods Eye for the best viewof the incoming mobs. Oonce they all arrive and get led into the AOE areas the Archer with the leveled Sharpened Tooth can cast it more effectively into the mobs.
- In the first waves try to target increased life mobs as Barrage of Arrows targets, they die slower than increased defense mobs.
- Always assist attack the wizard to target Gods Eye for a Barrage of Arrows target or building chi. If for some reason you need to build chi while mobs are present attack the mobs to build chi, don't use Gods Eye.
- Never use Wingspan to push mobs away from the party, even if the healer or Wizard is taking hits. The Blademaster may not be able to stun the mobs which will get other players mobbed instead of rescued.
- Barrage of Arrows: Consumes mana and ammunition every 3 seconds constantly dealing physical AOE damage to waves of mobs, your primary attack skill.
- Level 4 is the max at level 68
- Level 3 is the max at level 65
- Level 2 is the max at level 62
- Level 1 is the max at level 59
- Bow Mastery: It increases the damage of all ranged attacks.
- Level 9 is max level 69
- Level 8 is max level 64
- Level 7 is max level 59
- Sharpened Tooth Arrow: For dealing AOE damage while lowering maximum HP on mobs and bosses.
- Level 6 is the max at level 69
- Level 5 is the max at level 65
- Level 4 is the max at level 61
- Thunderous Blast: Can be used to deal extra AOE damage to waves of mobs in the first waves.
- Level 7 is the max at level 68
- Level 6 is the max at level 64
- Level 5 is the max at level 60
-Tangling Mire: Creates a mire under the target and all enemies within 15 meters, reducing their movement speed by 15% and physical defense by 35%.
-This should be used on every wave possible that you are using Barrage of Arrows. It helps you to deal massive damage. It is especially important to use on mobs at the 5th wave. They seems to have the highest physical defense and HP when compared to other waves. It is VITAL the mobs which you fight get killed before the next wave to prevent you from getting overwhelmed and mobbed.. Stage 5 mobs are extremely important because when the boss arrives, without flaw the mobs should be dead so everyone can farm the maximum amount of Celebeans to activate Auras, the mobs should be killed before farming.
- Tree of Protection ( Affinity: Wood 3 - Water 4 ): At level 10 Increases max HP by 30% for 5 seconds. Restores 20% of your max HP every 3 seconds for 6 seconds.
-Helpful emergency healing skill in case pots or Multiflavor Jiaozi are in cool down and increases your survivability in general. It should be used a second or two before you actually need healing, the healing effect is not instant.
- Second Wind ( Affinity: Wood 1 - Earth 1 - Water 1 ): Can serve as a replacement for Tree Of Protection. At level 10, instantly heals you, for 810 HP, every Genie Strength point increases the healing by 2%.
- It is highly recommended to wear both an HP and MP charm to help keep you alive and cut back on HP / MP refill item spam.
- Bring about 50 Multiflavor Jiaozi ( HP )and 50 Yuanxiao ( MP ) to fill HP or MP.
- Accuracy Powder is not required but can be helpful to use just before using Barrage of Arrows to inflict more damage
- If you decide to use Barrage of Arrows on the first waves of mobs, you may consider bringing Golden Jade powders ( Instantly gain one Spark ) so your Barrage of Arrows can be prepared for the next waves without the need for chi building.
- Physical attack charms or elite ammunition is not required but helpful when killing the strongest waves or assisting with bosses
- Bring more ammunition than you think you need. Its better to bring too much than too little.
Where to start..I have been writing a Rebirth Beta guide for some time now. First I would like to point out and state up front I am not the most knowledgeable or experienced Rebirth Archer.
That is why I would like helpful, positive feedback and general archer community approval on what I have written about our class responsibilities, required and helpful skills to max, general rebirth tips and required or helpful genie skills.
Gear is not something I am including in the guide right now. That discussion I hope remains closed.
Please add anything intelligent or anything you feel is helpful or correct information I have written that may be wrong.
Please refrain from referencing RB level specific situations outside of Beta. For example: "You need 3k hp unbuffed for Gamma, you should shard with HP". That is irrelevant here. This information pertains to Gamma and gear is not being discussed.
Another example: You need ( Insert xxx ) to kill ( Insert boss or mob name ), unless it is beta specific please stick to general information which can be applied to beta and above, like skills, genie advice or strategic information..
Your help improving this information is greatly appreciated. Thank you to all polite and helpful responses in advance.
Edit: This is NOT the full guide. This is the archer section only. There are many more components in the final guide which explain RB, what it is, how to start, the requirements and such.
Archers:
- Your main job as an archer is too keep Barrage of Arrows operating at all times possible during combat and fixed on Gods Eye. You must use Sharpened tooth arrow on each boss and use both Sharpened Tooth Arrow and Thunderous Blast on mobs in the first few waves as well when Gods Eye is not available. Your secondary responsibility is farming Celebeans.
- It can be recommended to use assist attack on the Barbarian or Blademaster in the first waves when trying to select a mob, then use AOE attack skills. If you randomly click inside groups of mobs or you may travel across the landscape from your position without selecting any mobs.
- In the first waves, if you decide to use Barrage of Arrows try not to select the same increased life mob as the Blademaster, the mob will die very fast and you will not be able to cast a second time without using a Golden Jade powder or attacking Gods Eye. Before casting Barrage of Arrows for the first time, it is a good idea to cast Sharpened Tooth Arrow first.
- In the first waves, if you decide not to use Barrage of Arrows, you should use Sharpened tooth arrow and Thunderous Blast for AOE attacks. Do not single attack mobs if those skills are not in cool down and are available for use. A strategy that can be used it positioning with duel Archer squads: Te archer with the strongest Sharpened Tooth Arrow on the right side of Gods Eye for the best viewof the incoming mobs. Oonce they all arrive and get led into the AOE areas the Archer with the leveled Sharpened Tooth can cast it more effectively into the mobs.
- In the first waves try to target increased life mobs as Barrage of Arrows targets, they die slower than increased defense mobs.
- Always assist attack the wizard to target Gods Eye for a Barrage of Arrows target or building chi. If for some reason you need to build chi while mobs are present attack the mobs to build chi, don't use Gods Eye.
- Never use Wingspan to push mobs away from the party, even if the healer or Wizard is taking hits. The Blademaster may not be able to stun the mobs which will get other players mobbed instead of rescued.
Archer skills that must be maxed at the level you attempt Beta:
- Barrage of Arrows: Consumes mana and ammunition every 3 seconds constantly dealing physical AOE damage to waves of mobs, your primary attack skill.
- Level 4 is the max at level 68
- Level 3 is the max at level 65
- Level 2 is the max at level 62
- Level 1 is the max at level 59
- Bow Mastery: It increases the damage of all ranged attacks.
- Level 9 is max level 69
- Level 8 is max level 64
- Level 7 is max level 59
Not required but helpful skills to have maxed:
- Sharpened Tooth Arrow: For dealing AOE damage while lowering maximum HP on mobs and bosses.
- Level 6 is the max at level 69
- Level 5 is the max at level 65
- Level 4 is the max at level 61
- Thunderous Blast: Can be used to deal extra AOE damage to waves of mobs in the first waves.
- Level 7 is the max at level 68
- Level 6 is the max at level 64
- Level 5 is the max at level 60
Useful Genie Skills:
-Tangling Mire: Creates a mire under the target and all enemies within 15 meters, reducing their movement speed by 15% and physical defense by 35%.
-This should be used on every wave possible that you are using Barrage of Arrows. It helps you to deal massive damage. It is especially important to use on mobs at the 5th wave. They seems to have the highest physical defense and HP when compared to other waves. It is VITAL the mobs which you fight get killed before the next wave to prevent you from getting overwhelmed and mobbed.. Stage 5 mobs are extremely important because when the boss arrives, without flaw the mobs should be dead so everyone can farm the maximum amount of Celebeans to activate Auras, the mobs should be killed before farming.
- Tree of Protection ( Affinity: Wood 3 - Water 4 ): At level 10 Increases max HP by 30% for 5 seconds. Restores 20% of your max HP every 3 seconds for 6 seconds.
-Helpful emergency healing skill in case pots or Multiflavor Jiaozi are in cool down and increases your survivability in general. It should be used a second or two before you actually need healing, the healing effect is not instant.
- Second Wind ( Affinity: Wood 1 - Earth 1 - Water 1 ): Can serve as a replacement for Tree Of Protection. At level 10, instantly heals you, for 810 HP, every Genie Strength point increases the healing by 2%.
Other Recommendations
- It is highly recommended to wear both an HP and MP charm to help keep you alive and cut back on HP / MP refill item spam.
- Bring about 50 Multiflavor Jiaozi ( HP )and 50 Yuanxiao ( MP ) to fill HP or MP.
- Accuracy Powder is not required but can be helpful to use just before using Barrage of Arrows to inflict more damage
- If you decide to use Barrage of Arrows on the first waves of mobs, you may consider bringing Golden Jade powders ( Instantly gain one Spark ) so your Barrage of Arrows can be prepared for the next waves without the need for chi building.
- Physical attack charms or elite ammunition is not required but helpful when killing the strongest waves or assisting with bosses
- Bring more ammunition than you think you need. Its better to bring too much than too little.
Post edited by Foltern - Sanctuary on
0
Comments
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Hi Foltern,
I'd like to suggest that the genie skill you mentioned, Tree of Protection, be replaced with Second Wind. (At level 10, which can be done on a level 50 genie, heals 810 hp instantly and every strength point on the genie adds 2% healing). This is for several reasons:
If your healing items are on cooldown, you will die unless you have something instant up your sleeve. Second Wind is completely instant, while Tree makes you wait a good few seconds during which you could die.
Second Wind is modded by Strength. So is Tangling Mire. Tree, however, needs Dex. Thus, two birds killed with one stone.
My Tangling Mire has a 45% Phys Def debuff and a 20% movement debuff, and my Second Wind heals me for 1460 HP instantly.
So yeah.
I agree with everything else you've said here, it's obvious you know what you're doing.
Edit: Glad to be of help. ^^[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"I always thought I'd be the only one doing crazy things for people who would never care enough to do it back or to act like idiots or be entirely vulnerable, and making someone fall in love with you is easy, and flying 3000 miles on four days notice because you can't just sit there and do nothing and breathe into telephones is not everyone's idea of love, but it is the way I can recognize it because that is what I do."
Sig pic by Nowitsawn0 -
Falcondance - Heavens Tear wrote: »Hi Foltern,
I'd like to suggest that the genie skill you mentioned, Tree of Protection, be replaced with Second Wind. (At level 10, which can be done on a level 50 genie, heals 730 hp instantly and every strength point on the genie adds 2% healing). This is for several reasons:
If your healing items are on cooldown, you will die unless you have something instant up your sleeve. Second Wind is completely instant, while Tree makes you wait a good few seconds during which you could die.
Second Wind is modded by Strength. So is Tangling Mire. Tree, however, needs Dex. Thus, two birds killed with one stone.
My Tangling Mire has a 45% Phys Def debuff and a 20% movement debuff, and my Second Wind heals me for 1460 HP instantly. My Genie only has 50 Strength.
So yeah.
I agree with everything else you've said here, it's obvious you know what you're doing.
:O Holy Moly!. Thank you so much. I will change it right now and credit you! However, Instead of removing Tree of Protection, I think I will add that skill as an either or.
Regards0 -
I have cloud eruption on my rebirth genie to help build up chi but I'm not sure if barrage going down is a problem in beta like it is in delta.
The guide looks good but I dont see the usefulness of casting serrated and poison to 'assist the barb'. Even at low levels the cast time isn't justified by the dot damage.- Always use assist attack on the Barbarian or Blademaster when trying to select a mob, then use AOE attack skills. ...
- In the first waves, .... try not to select the same increased life mob as the Blademaster
Sounds like opposite advice to me. In delta I generally click around randomly for a mob and if i cant find any I cast tooth and blast until I find one. Those aoes gain me like 6 more seconds to find a mob if I need it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »I have cloud eruption on my rebirth genie to help build up chi but I'm not sure if barrage going down is a problem in beta like it is in delta.
The guide looks good but I dont see the usefulness of casting serrated and poison to 'assist the barb'. Even at low levels the cast time isn't justified by the dot damage.
Sounds like opposite advice to me. In delta I generally click around randomly for a mob and if i cant find any I cast tooth and blast until I find one. Those aoes gain me like 6 more seconds to find a mob if I need it.
Hello ^__^.
Hmm..Well so far I have not actually completed Beta yet. I don't know if mobs past stage 3 wave 2 can cause it to go down. At this point perhaps since I can't confirm that, maybe it should be removed completely?
When the boss arrives and the mobs are dead, I usually try to cast all the DOT skills just to help the Barb..eh maybe it's fine just using Sharpened Tooth? I can remove that ^^. The cast times seem okay for me at the moment, my attack speed is .83 from my gear and slingshot.
When mobs are coming at the first wave, the Wizards are more than strong enough to kill them quickly, seemingly abolishing the need for Barrage. I usually use assist attack the BM or Barb to select any mobs, since they die so quickly, that way I can get a Sharpened Tooth in. I find I miss alot when trying to select a mob on my own, then I end up running forward like an idiot v.v. Maybe I can say it's a good idea to use assist attack to select a mob for ST?
Thank you for your feedback, it's very valuable to me. Regards0 -
From Beta->Gamma->Delta there are a variety of changes necessary, and there is no one "correct" way to rebirth. For instance, mobs knock you out of Barrage in Delta and you'll have to build chi, have chi auras or use vacuity powder to get back into the fray successfully.
One thing I'd like to see you cover is archer placement in relation to God's Eye. Generally, the best place to keep an archer with a Barrage on God's Eye is a meter or two outside of the "aura circle line" That is, a level 10 and some lower... not sure how low... (or sage/demon barrage) should hit everything within the aura circle plus any mobs behind you. The rationale is, any wizard who sets up "on the eye" will also be dealing damage to mobs on you and you'll share aggro better.
Optionally, in a one archer situation when aggro is pulled from the wizard (which happens more and more later in the game, it seems), is to set up barrage within 5 meters of the cleric. That way, in the event the archer pulls too much aggro or has 'ticked', either the cleric or the archer can use the genie skill 'Absolute Domain', and they'll both be saved.
In the reverse situation, tangling mire gives a physical defense reduction to the surrounding mobs. To alleviate graphical lag caused by the use of this skill on slower computers, always attempt to use the skill on God's Eye itself, as the skill will still work properly and often times not cause a graphical lagstorm. Doing this successfully will pull more aggro away from a wizard and more aggro to yourself.
As an archer using BoA, you still inflict half damage when mobs are close to you. This can be used to your advantage for sharing aggro. In RBs with multiple archers, set up in such a way that each barrage surrounds both the front and back of the other archer and far enough away from the other archer so that you obtain an aggro ping effect, sending the mobs back and forth between the two archers. A mob that is walking is generally not attacking, buying you precious attack time without taking damage.
The archer with the stronger sharpened tooth arrow should be on the right side of the Eye, as they will have a better "view" of the incoming wave of mobs and a better ability to hit more mobs with a sharpened tooth arrow skill.
That's all for now. b:victory5.0 "Pure" 8jun Sage Clawrcher of Dreamweaver0 -
Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »From Beta->Gamma->Delta there are a variety of changes necessary, and there is no one "correct" way to rebirth. For instance, mobs knock you out of Barrage in Delta and you'll have to build chi, have chi auras or use vacuity powder to get back into the fray successfully.
Hello ^__^. Your right. This information is not intended to serve as a how to complete all rebirths. It's purpose is to explain what the archers basic responsibility is in Rebirth ad well as what skills should be brought to the table and which strategies can be used to benefit the parties most.Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »One thing I'd like to see you cover is archer placement in relation to God's Eye. Generally, the best place to keep an archer with a Barrage on God's Eye is a meter or two outside of the "aura circle line" That is, a level 10 and some lower... not sure how low... (or sage/demon barrage) should hit everything within the aura circle plus any mobs behind you. The rationale is, any wizard who sets up "on the eye" will also be dealing damage to mobs on you and you'll share aggro better.
That's a good point, However I feel it's a bit complex to explain. I will be making an HD video with demonstrations and such. I will cover it there.
Optionally, in a one archer situation when aggro is pulled from the wizard (which happens more and more later in the game, it seems), is to set up barrage within 5 meters of the cleric. That way, in the event the archer pulls too much aggro or has 'ticked', either the cleric or the archer can use the genie skill 'Absolute Domain', and they'll both be saved.
Thank for that. I had no knowledge of that skill. If other Archers agree on the value of that skill I will add it.Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »In the reverse situation, tangling mire gives a physical defense reduction to the surrounding mobs. To alleviate graphical lag caused by the use of this skill on slower computers, always attempt to use the skill on God's Eye itself, as the skill will still work properly and often times not cause a graphical lagstorm. Doing this successfully will pull more aggro away from a wizard and more aggro to yourself.
I feel that the way I have explained it by saying in the beginning: "Your main job as an archer is too keep Barrage of Arrows operating at all times possible during combat and fixed on Gods Eye." and also at the Tangling Mire genie skill: "This should be used on every wave possible that you are using Barrage of Arrows insinuates to use Mire on Gods Eye.Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »As an archer using BoA, you still inflict half damage when mobs are close to you. This can be used to your advantage for sharing aggro. In RBs with multiple archers, set up in such a way that each barrage surrounds both the front and back of the other archer and far enough away from the other archer so that you obtain an aggro ping effect, sending the mobs back and forth between the two archers. A mob that is walking is generally not attacking, buying you precious attack time without taking damage.
I agree that might be of value, I haven't had it happen yet :<Illyana - Dreamweaver wrote: »The archer with the stronger sharpened tooth arrow should be on the right side of the Eye, as they will have a better "view" of the incoming wave of mobs and a better ability to hit more mobs with a sharpened tooth arrow skill.
I agree completely the archer with the stronger Sharpened Tooth should have the better view. But in my opinion only, it's good to wait the additional seconds until all the mobs are present before using it. Perhaps while the other archer uses Barrage.
I will in fact add that and credit you. ^o^.
Regards.0 -
I can agree on the value of Absolute Domain, I remember it being mentioned in a Delta guide somewhere. I've never used it myself but one can't deny it's handy.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"I always thought I'd be the only one doing crazy things for people who would never care enough to do it back or to act like idiots or be entirely vulnerable, and making someone fall in love with you is easy, and flying 3000 miles on four days notice because you can't just sit there and do nothing and breathe into telephones is not everyone's idea of love, but it is the way I can recognize it because that is what I do."
Sig pic by Nowitsawn0 -
Falcondance - Heavens Tear wrote: »I can agree on the value of Absolute Domain, I remember it being mentioned in a Delta guide somewhere. I've never used it myself but one can't deny it's handy.
Thank you.
Regards0 -
Foltern - Sanctuary wrote: »
- Your main job as an archer is too keep Barrage of Arrows operating at all times possible during combat and fixed on Gods Eye. You must use Sharpened tooth arrow on each boss and use both Sharpened Tooth Arrow and Thunderous Blast on mobs in the first few waves as well when Gods Eye is not available. Your secondary responsibility is farming Celebeans.
I stopped reading here. You can always PK in. 5000 times better than use slow **** aoe's.0 -
Foltern - Sanctuary wrote: »Hi fellow Archers ^^,
- Your main job as an archer is too keep Barrage of Arrows operating at all times possible during combat and fixed on Gods Eye. You must use Sharpened tooth arrow on each boss and use both Sharpened Tooth Arrow and Thunderous Blast on mobs in the first few waves as well when Gods Eye is not available. Your secondary responsibility is farming Celebeans.
- Never use Wingspan to push mobs away from the party, even if the healer or Wizard is taking hits. The Blademaster may not be able to stun the mobs which will get other players mobbed instead of rescued.
It seems like no one on Lost City puts zhens up on God's Eye. Then again I can't say I've rebirthed with everyone either. When ever I've done it we go up to the narrowest part of the map while still in the aura range. that way as long as the zhens are up, no mobs are not being hit (except maybe the ranged ones).
In Gamma I had a group that "glitched" to the Barb. For those of you that don't know what that is, it's done two ways. One: you kick your barb from party and attack him with barrage(make sure you have your protections off) then reinvite him back when it's up. While in party he won't take damage but the barrage will stay up on him where ever he moves. Two: If you're on a PvE server and don't want to go White to pk your barb, you can duel him before the mobs start pouring in. You might want him to take off all his armor so it ends quickly. When the duel is over he can put his armor back on and the barrage will still be up. One run in gamma we had 4 archers a barb and a clericb:chuckle. With mire each wave went down in less than 25 seconds b:pleased. Wherever the barb went 2-4 barrages went with him. b:victory Now that's what I call a constant Perdition (aka beastial onslaught?)
As far as I know this isn't against the rules.
As for Wingspan, with the Lost City way of being up in the narrow valley part I've seen some clerics, wizards and archers have earthquake to push the mobs around. In the rebirths I've been in we haven used it much unless it was an emergency, but if the mobs rarely get out of the zhen cuz it's too narrow, why not constantly push them around with earthquake so they can't hit anything? Earthquake has a short cool down and low energy cost even at lvl10(lvl1 is fine enough for the aoe knock back, lvl10 is good for the 100% chance to cancel mob/boss channeling). Anyways it's just an idea._Lust_Xxx - Harshlands wrote: »I stopped reading here. You can always PK in. 5000 times better than use slow **** aoe's.
I had to read that a few times. i still don't get what you're saying. Besides, you're not even an archer are you? Didn't think so.0 -
Cirdan - Lost City wrote: »It seems like no one on Lost City puts zhens up on God's Eye. Then again I can't say I've rebirthed with everyone either. When ever I've done it we go up to the narrowest part of the map while still in the aura range. that way as long as the zhens are up, no mobs are not being hit (except maybe the ranged ones).
Hmm kk. If people agree that is a popular and perhaps a more effective method I can discuss positioning in it's own section maybe or include it in my HD video later on. I have only setup near Gods Eye and the other flame.Cirdan - Lost City wrote: »In Gamma I had a group that "glitched" to the Barb. For those of you that don't know what that is, it's done two ways. One: you kick your barb from party and attack him with barrage(make sure you have your protections off) then reinvite him back when it's up. While in party he won't take damage but the barrage will stay up on him where ever he moves. As far as I know this isn't against the rules.
I did read about this at one time. In my own opinion it seems like an undocumented feature and may take advantage of a programming error. I have not tried it. Edited: Read posts 18 and 19.Cirdan - Lost City wrote: »As for Wingspan, with the Lost City way of being up in the narrow valley part I've seen some clerics, wizards and archers have earthquake to push the mobs around. In the rebirths I've been in we haven used it much unless it was an emergency, but if the mobs rarely get out of the zhen cuz it's too narrow, why not constantly push them around with earthquake so they can't hit anything? Earthquake has a short cool down and low energy cost even at lvl10(lvl1 is fine enough for the aoe knock back, lvl10 is good for the 100% chance to cancel mob/boss channeling). Anyways it's just an idea.
Never seen , never tried. Not opposed to it if it works.
Regards.0 -
This post has been edited out.0
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Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »I have seen a GM post that the behavior of Barrage, where it stops when your target dies, is a bug. And they also said that avoiding this problem is not taking advantage of a programming error.
But that was months ago, and is not in a sticky post in the archer forums.
Edited: See posts 18 and 19.
Regards0 -
In Sanctuary we do it in the narrow valley and not on the eye as well but only Delta. For gamma it is done on the Eye. I think it is because Gamma is more afk-friendly than delta.
I use earthquake if either my HP charm ticks or if I am trying to position mobs farther away. Barrage does half damage if the mobs are too close.
A GM has confirmed that using duel to start a zhen is not an exploit but I'm not sure if I can find it.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »In Sanctuary we do it in the narrow valley and not on the eye as well but only Delta. For gamma it is done on the Eye.
A screenshot or video of that positioning would be great. I have never seen it ._.Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »A GM has confirmed that using duel to start a zhen is not an exploit but I'm not sure if I can find it.
:<
Regards0 -
Cyanea - Lost City wrote: »I have seen a GM post that the behavior of Barrage, where it stops when your target dies, is a bug. And they also said that avoiding this problem is not taking advantage of a programming error.
But that was months ago, and is not in a sticky post in the archer forums.Foltern - Sanctuary wrote: »Thank you. If a GM will post here and explain that it isn't against the rules to do that, I will add that for sure if it hasn't been fixed.
Regards
I found it.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=102241&highlight=barrage+glitch0 -
Cirdan - Lost City wrote: »
Hi and thank you for bringing that to my attention. I read every word on every page. I think that thread is dangerous as hell ^^. It's a shame all of those players wont read my words below.
From what I understand, this works in the following manor:
While in a party, initiate a duel and lower the other players HP to a critical amount. Launch Barrage of Arrows and finish the duel with that particular skill. The target does not die in a duel so the skill continues to operate. While the skill continues to operate, the target does not receive damage and the skill effect remains tracking the target because the target has not been detected as dead.
The skills reads exactly:
"Consuming 540 mana every 3 seconds, release countless arrows into to the sky delivering devastating damage to the target and enemies within a 12.0 meter of radius the target, inflicting base physical damage plus 200% of weapon damage plus 4585.6. Skill will not stop until you click cancel button or press ESC."
Here is what Administrator xarfox has posted on page 21 post # 202:
"As it stands right now, the skill description reads that it's supposed to continue until canceled or until the user runs out of mana.
Currently the Wizard AoE spell functions properly. You can target a monster or a player, and after the target dies the spell continues, as stated in the description.
We will not be banning archers for using this ability for Zhenning as the skill description states that the skill is supposed to continue until canceled."
What Administrator xarfox posted can be interpreted in many ways.
There are many users who agree that the skill is not functioning properly and it should not stop when targets die, such as the Wizard skill. Dragon's Breath from what I understand does not require any actual targeting for it to operate. It effects any target that is near it.
This seems to go against how Barrage functions. These skills do not function the same at all. Barrage tracks target movement, it needs a target to work. The Wizard AOE does not, it operates around the player while the player cannot move. It is this unique targeting system that causes the conflict. It is because Barrage tracks targets it ceases to work when targets die because there is nothing to target.
Any said "Fix" for Barrage would mean it will lose it's target tracking abilities and the skills targeting would be based on terrain, other real estate or maybe it would be static around the archer or where they decided to cast the skill in the environment.
It could also be changed so that it can target and track a single target and when the target is dead the skill loses it's tracking ability and remains skilling in one place which is where the mob dies.
The fact the skill description was translated from another language is irrelevant. That does not determine how the programmers intended the skill to work in PVP, PVE or duels.
In PVE when a target is killed by Barrage the skill ceases to operate. That is how the skill works in PVE.
What Administrator xarfox posted does not indicate the whether the developers intended Barrage to work in the manner described in duels. If they did not, it is exploitation however exploitation is not defined by a persons moral compass, it is defined by official rules, statements from administrators, management and developers.
If this function is working the way it supposed to in duels there is nothing wrong with that. The programming intention and any rules are the only line that divides "Ethical and unethical use". It is not anyones opinion in the forums including my own.
The official rules say the following:
(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players,
Without knowing programmer intention, a rule or an Administrator defining what is right or wrong a user cannot violate any rules, no rule exists to violate.
If we reexamine what Administrator xarfox posted : "We will not be banning archers for using this ability for Zhenning"
Where does Rebirth come into play? How is "Zhenning" defined by PWI?
I believe the answer to that better defines if it is allowed to be used in Rebirth.
What Administrator xarfox indicated, using this tactic for Zhenning is not against the rules.
This is my opinion only~
What I can say is using Barrage to track a targets movement is not using the skill in a way it was not designed to work. It works that way inherently.
I can say in PVE Barrage stops working when targets die. That is how it operates the skill description does not matter.
I have never been in PK. One time, I did personally witness Astrelle in Sanctuary Kill BigPunisher using Barrage of Arrows in the Secret passage. When he died the skill stopped working.
It seems logical, a programmer overlooked writing a series of "Routines" that specifically effect Barrage in duels. It stops working upon a targets death in PVE, it stops working when targets die in PK. It does not stop working in duels if I understand this technique.
In my own opinion only, it I do believe is an undocumented feature and oversight. I do believe is it working in a way the original developers did not intend. ( Perhaps learning if it works the same on the Chinese servers can provide some clarity or maybe it wont).
I believe this because it seems to work the same in 2/3 widely used scenarios. Barrage of arrows may take a few seconds to hit targets be it mobs or players but it DOES do damage it is supposed too. Archers know the purpose of barrage is to inflict mass damage while it is operating. Mobs always take damage and players too when there are not any special circumstances involved and a player or mob can be killed as normal.
The flaw lies within the nonexistent programming signaling Barrage to stop working when a duel is technically over. Half the programing is there because it does continue to operate respecting the natural rule "when the target dies" which is not stated but observed. However if the skill remains active it should continue to deal massive damage. The problem has 2 parts: Barrage not shutting off and Barrage not dealing damage. If Barrage suddenly stopped dealing damage in PVE, there would be mass complaints and problems because it always supposed to as long as a target has HP. In the unique set of reproducible circumstances only, it ceases to deal damage but it continues to operate. That does not seem like normal and intended functionality at all.
I will not be using that method because I believe on a personal level it is an oversight. I believe I can finish Rebirth without using it. ( Not to discredit anyone who completes Rebirth using this technique). If I complete Rebirth, I personally prefer to have done so without using this technique.
Other archers and other parties can choose to use it or not use it. If they believe it is an honest engineering mistake that works in favor of PWI, they can choose to not use it for any reasons based around that.
If they believe it is okay because it is not against the rules or if they believe it works properly without any flaws they can choose to use it for any reasons based around that as well, there is no right or wrong answer. There is only opinion.
That does not make it against the rules and what I think is not important. Official rules, statements from administrators, management and developers make it against the rules and that is what is important. Is it a glitch? Is it an exploit? Maybe and probably. Nobody can say except the original programmers, It is neither until PWI determines they are.
Administrator xarfox has already posted: "We will not be banning archers for using this ability for Zhenning"
Using this technique is allowed for purpose of Zhenning. I believe the question remains does that mean it is allowed to be used in Rebirth? If an administrator can respond with something like "Yes this is allowed in rebirth it is not against the rules." I will add it, but it will also contain a link to this thread and reference what I said here also.
Regards.0 -
One time, I did personally witness Astrelle in Sanctuary Kill BigPunisher using Barrage of Arrows in the Secret passage. When he died the skill stopped working.
b:shockedb:surprised
Did you video it? o____O[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
|Active: Coalescence - Lost City, Wizard|
|Inactive: StormHydra - Sanctuary, Archer|
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StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote: »b:shockedb:surprised
Did you video it? o____O
At that time I was not making HD videos. No I was not recording PK that day. He was however, shredded like paper. Of course, he came back and got some 2- 3 hit kill revenge.
Regards0 -
Will a GM / Administrator please confirm if the Archer Barrage Zhen technique is allowed to be used in Rebirth?
Regards.0 -
Foltern - Sanctuary wrote: »Will a GM / Administrator please confirm if the Archer Barrage Zhen technique is allowed to be used in Rebirth?
Regards.
If it's allowed in Zhen I'm sure it's allowed in RB. I doubt they would micromanage rules like that.[SIGPIC]lol[/SIGPIC]0 -
Kireina - Dreamweaver wrote: »If it's allowed in Zhen I'm sure it's allowed in RB. I doubt they would micromanage rules like that.
Please read post 19.
Also if you visit that link, there is an argument about Venos attacking from the air etc. Under some circumstances it is not against the rules. And in some instances it is against the rules, that is why I am asking. Just because it is not against the rules to Zhen does not mean it's okay to use it every place in the game. It was said it is allowed for Zhenning specifically.Foltern - Sanctuary wrote: »Will a GM / Administrator please confirm if the Archer Barrage Zhen technique is allowed to be used in Rebirth?
Regards.0 -
Foltern - Sanctuary wrote: »Also if you visit that link, there is an argument about Venos attacking from the air etc. Under some circumstances it is not against the rules. And in some instances it is against the rules, that is why I am asking. Just because it is not against the rules to Zhen does not mean it's okay to use it every place in the game. It was said it is allowed for Zhenning specifically.
I'd just like to point out your point here is false. The only time it is not allowed for a veno to attack a boss from the air is if the boss is unable to engage in combat with the pet and the veno is thus, able to kill it without any effort or threat (IE: Gouf). For any boss that fights back, you can attack from the air as much as you want without worry.
On a side note, the action itself is what is considered zhenning, not the environment. Otherwise, there would have to be micromanaged rules for every instance and location where a squad could possibly choose to perform zhen.0 -
I'd just like to point out your point here is false. The only time it is not allowed for a veno to attack a boss from the air is if the boss is unable to engage in combat with the pet and the veno is thus, able to kill it without really needing any effort (IE: Gouf). For any boss that fights back, you can attack from the air as much as you want without worry.
Right and that is the circumstance. Regardless, that is a condition. ~Whether I am right or wrong about what Venos do doesn't change rules dealing with Zhenning.On a side note, the action itself is what is considered zhenning, not the environment. Otherwise, there would have to be micromanaged rules for every instance and location where a squad could possibly choose to perform zhen.
Zhenning is a recursive definition which implies the "exploit" or technique must be used to begin with. Zhenning is not Rebirth.
"We will not be banning archers for using this ability for Zhenning .""
Zhenning commonly takes place in the open world. There is no programmed level restrictions other than having the skills required to Zhen. Rebirth has quests , programmed level restrictions and a separate instance which governs it. To the best of my knowledge there is no official definition for what Zhenning is.
Rather than to attempt to define one or ask PWI management to define one, I believe it is easier and more sensible to ask if this "Ability" can be used in Rebirth before mentioning it as a strategy to complete Rebirth when the document is finished and shared with the public in another thread.
There doesn't have to be micromanaged rules for every instance and location where a squad could possibly choose to perform zhen. I'm asking if it is allowed in Rebirth.
Regards.0 -
Wow... For a thread thats supposed to be about rebirth... I have to say its really stupid that you would be asking whether or not zhenning is allowing in rebirth.
IT IS
On the gods-eye, or whatever you deem fit.
Stop with this rediculous nonsense - its already been confirmed by Xarfox that they will not be punishing anyone despite your views of whether it is a glitch/exploit or in general any **** like that.
Now get back to the discussion at hand OP.0 -
angellicdeity wrote: »Wow... For a thread thats supposed to be about rebirth... I have to say its really stupid that you would be asking whether or not zhenning is allowing in rebirth it is On the gods-eye, or whatever you deem fit.
Stop with this rediculous nonsense - its already been confirmed by Xarfox that they will not be punishing anyone despite your views of whether it is a glitch/exploit or in general any **** like that. Now get back to the discussion at hand OP.
Hi. Please re-read everything again. You don't seem to understand how the conversation got here. This is the topic. Frankly it is between me and a Administrator or GM. I did not say it was a glitch. I did not say it was an exploit. I did not say people should not be allowed to do it. In fact I said " It is neither until PWI determines they are." I believe you may be misunderstanding what is being asked here.
I believe if you read every post to this point and you understood it fully, you would not post what you did. Despite your selective reading, your opinion and your understanding of what Xarfox posted, you are not an Administrator or a GM. You are not neither qualified nor empowered to interpret what Xarfox posted on behalf of PWI.
I addressed an Administrator or GM to avoid these types of posts. Any comments made by any end user including my own is opinion and best guess only and that can be argued. That is why I asked for further clarification from someone who is authorized to answer. To avoid problems in the thread. It is now up to them to read my words and the the referenced post, then either not provide an answer or they can clarify this.Foltern - Sanctuary wrote: »Will a GM / Administrator please confirm if the Archer Barrage Zhen technique is allowed to be used in Rebirth?
Thank you. Regards.0 -
I'd suggest you PM a GM then and post their response here as it's most likely going to be more efficient than asking for one to reply in a random thread in a class subforum and waiting for a response.0
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Submit a ticket to receive the response you are looking for. It seems like you have no idea how trivial this issue is, yet you keep pursuing it.youtube.com/transcendpw
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Transcend - Lost City wrote: »Submit a ticket to receive the response you are looking for. It seems like you have no idea how trivial this issue is, yet you keep pursuing it.
Hi,
I know how trivial it is , or at least how trivial other people are trying to make it on that thread.*. After it was brought to my attention the very first sentence I typed was "Hi and thank you for bringing that to my attention. I read every word on every page. I think that thread is dangerous as hell ^^."
You can read that for yourself. Although I think I simplified the 29 pages, with what I said on post 19.
The real answer is that is not trivial at all. PWI makes a determination of whether or not something is against the rules. Not users and their opinion, even if what they say is logical and reasonable.
Other people are perusing it. I only asked for management to say if it's okay to use this ability inside RB. Not more. "Ability" is not my word it is the word used by the Administrator.
Honestly, at this point trying to get the answer and dealing with trolls and garbage from less than savory members in the community and sending tickets and mailing Administrators is more trouble and time that it's worth.
I'm not including it in the guide I am writing.
Educating people about the technique is not important and will not make or break the guide I am writing about this. It will not determine success or failure inside RB either. People can learn it for themselves or do what they like~ That is the finality.We can all move on now.
I like the videos on your Youtube Channel by the way.
Regards.0
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