Dissecting Nefarious Part 1: Officers

Xoria - Sanctuary · November 2009

Raydoit - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh and that raydoit guy. He was so awesome with his all his jokes about hentai and......well other stuff.

I remember you Xoria but had no idea where you disappeared to b:irritated

Left due to rl issues piling up (working 45+ hours) and left Legendary because I couldn't TW and went to Rhythm. Boss decided to change his mind and dropped my hours.

...And I was never part of the 'hamsup' group b:shocked

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · November 2009

Ceshiari - Sanctuary wrote: »

ok...what was the purpose of this thread again? Cause all I really see is Nef Officers stepping in and basking in the spotlight. b:surrender

technically its suppose to be somewhat analyzing the qualities of what led up to, and traits that probably helped in the success of getting over half the map. Quoted below

tontonvaldez wrote: »

What qualities do these officers possess that make them unique as officers and do they impact the sturdiness of the bastion of Nefarious? What do we know about them? How do they conduct themselves?

If you weed out the money and land factor, the best way would be to remember them way back then, that is what i think. How were the officers back then? the leaders? how motivation was kept, etc etc. Thers alot of things really that you can look into, its pretty interesting if done seriously.

HolyInferno - Sanctuary · November 2009

Zuyue - Sanctuary wrote: »

So he started in nef.... revolted in seppuku and went back to nef? Cause i know he was in sepp with me which would make him not 1 of the first neffies as sepp was created much later. I didnt know him before seppuku tho

Your first sentence is correct. Seppuku was started by Nishtara, Sinanju, _Ami, Verge and Crystalized . They were shortly followed by other nefarious members such as Linesky and Bevers. There were also a couple of individuals that followed from different factions. However, it wasnt until their involvement in the SW v Leg TWs that they began to gain steam in their recruitment with people from, you guessed it... SW and Legendary

FitHitDShan - Sanctuary · November 2009

In a probably vain attempt to get back on topic, I'll note that the one thing that always stood out about Nef in the "early days" was how aggressively they pushed average members to level and to participate in TWs. This was a combination of carrot and stick leadership. Members were punished for failing to meet their obligations to the faction (stick), but the faction also was extremely quick to pull together assistance for FBs, bosses, or just grind parties (carrot). In most of the factions I've seen, the leaders take a much more passive role - reacting to problems rather than actively managing the general membership.

That is not to say that just micro-managing the membership is the key to success. I've seen factions die from poor management that was too heavy-handed. So, I have to believe that Nef's early officers succeeded in part because they had a mix of members who wanted to be pushed to succeed, they had early successes that rewarded the model, and they had a model that was deemed fair by the members. But, in larger part, I think they succeeded because they were actively managing the faction (with a good balance between being too involved and being too passive as managers).

I've also seen factions die from the leadership trying to do too much of things like boss-kills for members. What strikes me most in looking back at the various FBs and boss-kills I did with early Nef squads (riding along with a friend who was in Nef) was that I rarely saw an officer doing everything for the members. So, I'm also led to believe that Nef's early success was a function of the officers working harder at organizing the members than at doing the work for them. It may be this was a byproduct of the player types who were drawn to Nef, rather than a conscious decision of the leaders, but it is another aspect of how they led which distinguished Nef in the "early days."

Discuss.

Or, just keep talking about personalities and celebrities.

riddiculus · November 2009

FitHitDShan - Sanctuary wrote: »

In a probably vain attempt to get back on topic, I'll note that the one thing that always stood out about Nef in the "early days" was how aggressively they pushed average members to level and to participate in TWs. This was a combination of carrot and stick leadership. Members were punished for failing to meet their obligations to the faction (stick), but the faction also was extremely quick to pull together assistance for FBs, bosses, or just grind parties (carrot). In most of the factions I've seen, the leaders take a much more passive role - reacting to problems rather than actively managing the general membership.

That is not to say that just micro-managing the membership is the key to success. I've seen factions die from poor management that was too heavy-handed. So, I have to believe that Nef's early officers succeeded in part because they had a mix of members who wanted to be pushed to succeed, they had early successes that rewarded the model, and they had a model that was deemed fair by the members. But, in larger part, I think they succeeded because they were actively managing the faction (with a good balance between being too involved and being too passive as managers).

I've also seen factions die from the leadership trying to do too much of things like boss-kills for members. What strikes me most in looking back at the various FBs and boss-kills I did with early Nef squads (riding along with a friend who was in Nef) was that I rarely saw an officer doing everything for the members. So, I'm also led to believe that Nef's early success was a function of the officers working harder at organizing the members than at doing the work for them. It may be this was a byproduct of the player types who were drawn to Nef, rather than a conscious decision of the leaders, but it is another aspect of how they led which distinguished Nef in the "early days."

Discuss.

Or, just keep talking about personalities and celebrities.

maybe..in early days if you call it that.. now is 'old' days... and in the 'old' days.. success is all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ KA-CHINGS $$$$$$$$$$

FitHitDShan - Sanctuary · November 2009

riddiculus wrote: »

maybe..in early days if you call it that.. now is 'old' days... and in the 'old' days.. success is all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ KA-CHINGS $$$$$$$$$$

Yes, it is uninteresting to ask what keeps Nef running today, though. The point is to ask what other factions can learn from Nef's path to success.

Minimus - Sanctuary · November 2009

FitHitDShan - Sanctuary wrote: »

In a probably vain attempt to get back on topic, I'll note that the one thing that always stood out about Nef in the "early days" was how aggressively they pushed average members to level and to participate in TWs. This was a combination of carrot and stick leadership. Members were punished for failing to meet their obligations to the faction (stick), but the faction also was extremely quick to pull together assistance for FBs, bosses, or just grind parties (carrot). In most of the factions I've seen, the leaders take a much more passive role - reacting to problems rather than actively managing the general membership.

That is not to say that just micro-managing the membership is the key to success. I've seen factions die from poor management that was too heavy-handed. So, I have to believe that Nef's early officers succeeded in part because they had a mix of members who wanted to be pushed to succeed, they had early successes that rewarded the model, and they had a model that was deemed fair by the members. But, in larger part, I think they succeeded because they were actively managing the faction (with a good balance between being too involved and being too passive as managers).

I've also seen factions die from the leadership trying to do too much of things like boss-kills for members. What strikes me most in looking back at the various FBs and boss-kills I did with early Nef squads (riding along with a friend who was in Nef) was that I rarely saw an officer doing everything for the members. So, I'm also led to believe that Nef's early success was a function of the officers working harder at organizing the members than at doing the work for them. It may be this was a byproduct of the player types who were drawn to Nef, rather than a conscious decision of the leaders, but it is another aspect of how they led which distinguished Nef in the "early days."

Discuss.

Or, just keep talking about personalities and celebrities.

What you describe as "carrot and stick" that Nef leadership may have utilized to push members to higher levels and class specific proffessionality is one of the reasons that gave some sort of "momentum". This can also be seen as part of a continued effort by a measure not everyone likes or liked. So there may be more reasons for an effective leadership. I guess they introduced what you describe as the "good balance between being too involved and being too passive as managers" in about the right time. This came along with ideas of certain members who formulated new, deliberate ideas that were acceptable in- and outside the faction (some pionts were mentioned at page 1). This may be the momentum that happened quite unperceived, maybe unintended.

Some kind of opinion about this. Don't take it too serious b:bored

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · November 2009

Look at the TW maps for all servers.
http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=387021&highlight=Maps

4/5 of the servers are dominated by the red faction. This color goes to the faction who had the first TW victory. Even so there have been many other factions on these servers and it would be far too coincidental for the most organized faction with the best officers to always be the first out the gate.

In my opinion being the first on the map gave Nef and other red factions a huge edge in recruiting. Not many are interested in joining a losing team. Having this recruitment advantage means getting the best players early on which compounds and attracts more good players. The challenge is to keep this advantage going and not allow other factions to catch up. There aren't all that many original Nef left from before Nef took the first land so a recruitment advantage has a huge influence on Nef's current composition.

I don't think Nef needs to have the best officers on the server to do this, they need officers that are good enough. I'm not saying Nef officers aren't good because they are, but if Sasaki had started Nef a couple of weeks later there would most likely be some other red faction dominating the map today. Being early seems to be a huge factor for the frequent success of red factions.

FitHitDShan - Sanctuary · November 2009

I must be getting old because I cannot now recall exactly how long it was before the second faction got on the map. Was it the next weekend or did it take two? Regardless, this recruiting advantage was widely available in the days when TW was all a matter of which faction was ready to do a massive PvE instance. I don't doubt at all that recruitment advantage quickly became a significant factor in Nef's favor once they were successfully defending PvP TWs and taking land from other factions. In particular, the first time they faced (and won) simultaneous TWs, they began to have a serious advantage. But, did being first on the map change their members relative to the next faction on the map or did they become first because they had done the most to get their members ready to TW? I certainly don't recall a flood of migrations to Nef in those first few weeks. I don't recall Nef suddenly raising their level requirement for entry any faster than it had already been increasing. I remember, instead, that every other faction got energized to get themselves a sliver of land. Hmm, isn't that the reactive management in action?

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · November 2009

Ehh, I'm just basing this off of empirical evidence. 4/5 servers are dominated by red factions. This is a strong correlation.

These are the factions that were on the map first when the server opened. You could argue that the best factions are ones that are on the map first and that may be true for the first couple weeks. However if the red factions are similar to Nef their current composition is far different than it was at the start.

Considering the number of times Nef leadership has changed (sometimes for the worse), I would think Nef owes much of its current dominance to early success rather than to supreme leadership.

Telarith - Sanctuary · November 2009

HolyInferno - Sanctuary wrote: »

Your first sentence is correct. Seppuku was started by Nishtara, Sinanju, _Ami, Verge and Crystalized . They were shortly followed by other nefarious members such as Linesky and Bevers. There were also a couple of individuals that followed from different factions. However, it wasnt until their involvement in the SW v Leg TWs that they began to gain steam in their recruitment with people from, you guessed it... SW and Legendary

Seppuku was mostly started by the static group, with a few others from Nef who also were around the group. Linesky let them know he was going to join, but wanted to get paid from the previous TW before heading over. It was already a done deal though. Not sure about all of them, but I know Nishtara was in Legendary for a few hours before joining up with Nef. He actually came in at the worst point in Legendary's history pretty much, so it gave the wrong impression. That's how I first ended up talking with him, and later joined the static group when I was trying to set up a cross-faction roster for high levels to get their questing done.

Seppuku was formed from what I remember due to the rather inactive leadership role of Nef, and favoritism that was allowed at the time. Afterwards, Sasaki started taking active steps in improving Nef's image, and the way its member's acted. Think SW was joining Seppuku before Legendary, after the blow-up Godsfear had when we spanked em hard that first fight

Legendary members joined later on due to RL issues pulling people out of their more active role's in Legendary: Ex-leader left due to family issues, ex-TW unofficial officer had 2 weeks before moving and ending up offline 3 months, director had rl issues and was friends with the old leader, etc.

AshWorth - Sanctuary · November 2009

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ehh, I'm just basing this off of empirical evidence. 4/5 servers are dominated by red factions. This is a strong correlation.

These are the factions that were on the map first when the server opened. You could argue that the best factions are ones that are on the map first and that may be true for the first couple weeks. However if the red factions are similar to Nef their current composition is far different than it was at the start.

Considering the number of times Nef leadership has changed (sometimes for the worse), I would think Nef owes much of its current dominance to early success rather than to supreme leadership.

1st faction may gain advantage but may not be a determining factor. Refer to page 1 for some possible deciding factors

Telarith - Sanctuary · November 2009

AshWorth - Sanctuary wrote: »

1st faction may gain advantage but may not be a determining factor. Refer to page 1 for some possible deciding factors

To an extent, but you also have to consider the time and how it worked.

Gaining land first was a major break. It brought a lot of the higher leveled or knowledgeable people over, since Nef appeared more competent at the time. And people who already knew about the game didn't feel like teaching people all over again.

Then it became how quickly someone could take a land. With the initial boost from 1st land take, they had even their newer members trained faster than other guilds. Which again, made for much faster land grabs, which meant greater recruitment potential. Because Time taken was the new measure of power for factions.

Quite frankly, without that image that it gained being destroyed somehow, then Nef would stay viewed as the more powerful/knowledgeable faction; which is a very effective recruitment ad. Even more so than any other, since it gets the attention of people who actually know what to look for. So it could drain from other top factions any who got in a disagreement over something petty, or just wanted more power. Their level or skill could almost guarantee them a spot in Nefarious, why would they bother talking it out or compromising.

Whiner - Sanctuary · November 2009

HolyInferno - Sanctuary wrote: »

Whiner - was a ghost even when I was in Nef..

I like that, it gives me the power to stalk people like you because you never know I even was there

No but I am a nice officer just like any other in the faction. We have been voted by our faction members because we have something to offer the faction and because the faction thinks we are good at what we are doing.
I never wanted to be famous, this is really not the reason I am an officer. I always get to know people I belive are good (hence the reason why I never got to know you). You may not know me but it's actually thanks to me you joined Nefarious. I never wanted to know you, but I know that Sinanju trusted you greatly and he was a very good friend of me. Now I feel it actually was a mistake to let you join Nefarious.

Anyway, we are officers because we want to help the greatest faction in Sanctuary, not because we want fame. I find this whole thread amusing ^^

AshWorth - Sanctuary · November 2009

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

To an extent, but you also have to consider the time and how it worked.

Gaining land first was a major break. It brought a lot of the higher leveled or knowledgeable people over, since Nef appeared more competent at the time. And people who already knew about the game didn't feel like teaching people all over again.

Then it became how quickly someone could take a land. With the initial boost from 1st land take, they had even their newer members trained faster than other guilds. Which again, made for much faster land grabs, which meant greater recruitment potential. Because Time taken was the new measure of power for factions.

Quite frankly, without that image that it gained being destroyed somehow, then Nef would stay viewed as the more powerful/knowledgeable faction; which is a very effective recruitment ad. Even more so than any other, since it gets the attention of people who actually know what to look for. So it could drain from other top factions any who got in a disagreement over something petty, or just wanted more power. Their level or skill could almost guarantee them a spot in Nefarious, why would they bother talking it out or compromising.

Have to agree with you. The next challenge is how to keep the knowledgable people and make use of them to build the faction. Ppl will get more rebellious when they know more. Still have to go back to page 1 for some determining factors

Telarith - Sanctuary · November 2009

AshWorth - Sanctuary wrote: »

Have to agree with you. The next challenge is how to keep the knowledgable people and make use of them to build the faction. Ppl will get more rebellious when they know more. Still have to go back to page 1 for some determining factors

Wait, didn't we do this in another thread almost the same way? I posted pretty much what I did before, and your reply was the same, except this time it was see page 1 instead of whether maintenance had more merit than creating it. Either that or I have a wicked case of Deja Vu. Ah well, in a few more months, someone else with Alzheimer's will make a new post, and we'll be posting again. Save me a dance? b:chuckle

AshWorth - Sanctuary · November 2009

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

Wait, didn't we do this in another thread almost the same way? I posted pretty much what I did before, and your reply was the same, except this time it was see page 1 instead of whether maintenance had more merit than creating it. Either that or I have a wicked case of Deja Vu. Ah well, in a few more months, someone else with Alzheimer's will make a new post, and we'll be posting again. Save me a dance? b:chuckle

Make sure you read the thread and have time to response xD. i will be out for vacation starting mid of next week till mid of Dec. Hopefully we will see something new like the expansion then...

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · November 2009

Ok so aside from the pple that mistook this thread for being a 'interview the current officer thread', from the first page, there was a need to look back in the past.

Key points;
1. Leadership
2. Membership sense of belonging
3. Loyalty
4. Money and land

Quoted below are some of the main interesting points that did have a valid reason.

FitHitDShan - Sanctuary wrote: »

one thing that always stood out about Nef in the "early days" was how aggressively they pushed average members to level and to participate in TWs. This was a combination of carrot and stick leadership. Members were punished for failing to meet their obligations to the faction (stick), but the faction also was extremely quick to pull together assistance for FBs, bosses, or just grind parties (carrot). In most of the factions I've seen, the leaders take a much more passive role - reacting to problems rather than actively managing the general membership.

they had early successes that rewarded the model, and they had a model that was deemed fair by the members. But, in larger part, I think they succeeded because they were actively managing the faction (with a good balance between being too involved and being too passive as managers).

I'm also led to believe that Nef's early success was a function of the officers working harder at organizing the members than at doing the work for them. It may be this was a byproduct of the player types who were drawn to Nef, rather than a conscious decision of the leaders, but it is another aspect of how they led which distinguished Nef in the "early days."

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

In my opinion being the first on the map gave Nef and other red factions a huge edge in recruiting.

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Leadership has changed (sometimes for the worse), I would think Nef owes much of its current dominance to early success rather than to supreme leadership.

AshWorth - Sanctuary wrote: »

1st faction may gain advantage but may not be a determining factor. Refer to page 1 for some possible deciding factors

Telarith - Sanctuary wrote: »

To an extent, but you also have to consider the time and how it worked.

Gaining land first was a major break. It brought a lot of the higher leveled or knowledgeable people over, since Nef appeared more competent at the time. And people who already knew about the game didn't feel like teaching people all over again.

AshWorth - Sanctuary wrote: »

Have to agree with you. The next challenge is how to keep the knowledgable people and make use of them to build the faction. Ppl will get more rebellious when they know more. Still have to go back to page 1 for some determining factors

Ashworths quote above does indeed go back to page 1 or rather, it goes to FitHitDShan's comment where the commissioners were encouraged to take an active role. Someone once told me pple do get rebellious and one of those times are when they have nothing to think about, do about. FitHits comment about the officers and the relationship between the commissioners, and the active role the commissioners took, i think, partly had them busy with a sense of duty and each their own importance.

Herne_Hunter - Sanctuary · November 2009

YngWiE - Leader (?Ghost?)- Wonderful person, has the patients to listen to me no matter what **** i talk bout. well listen and understand both.

Xaratul - Director (?Ghost?) Oh my one of the best wizzies known him for a while helped me farm my first set of TT 90 gear too.

BeastLeO - Marshall Ingame and Real life friend, Gives me knowledge of stuff i never knew

asWhales - Marshall- Not known him much but yeah of the little time i spent with him he is a good guy.

Templar - Marshall (one of the top barbs, super geared) wow i love his geddon cookies. oh and along with it his small gifts of rep cookies :P

Makeda - Marshall (seen her in Steel before)-NO comments ?

Attama - Nice person but mad at me cause i didnt give her the sage fox form on my FB89 run

Falls - ex Leader (seen her before)- The best i did ever see. Still is the only worthy leader not of Nefarious but Sanctuary

Harima Kenji (seen him before)- Nice person with strong ethics and principals

MorgulLord- again a real life friend not known him much ingame

PooRitan (seen him before)- noobfish barb :P but also my partner in Delta doing our learning days

Sinanju (one of the first, one of the best clerics)- heard he quit but when he was around he proved he was and is and will be the best

venomeow- an unkown grudge though used to be a good partner doing my grindng time from 86-89

Sayenne (seen her around, helped me with fb)- hmm all i know is doesnt like for spamming guild chat and also jumps to conclusions witout even listening. Starts KSNG witout even knowing what the fact is or something and then later on expects a polite reply. Hates me to hell though i wont say the same from my part

Whiner- one of the neutralizing effect in nef. Knows how and what an officers should do. and at the end is really really helpful

Xoria- i hate her ..... for her channeling :P but yeah is a real good friend of what i can say

Dorm- only seen him on nef forums and also seems to have a good Hold of his own on the game and behind the curtains

Heavenfire- ooooh my squad leader of the anti BM squad who let me play my game in TW's perfectly

Neck - who is this never seen or heard of him/her

SasakiSayuri-ex Leader (I've seen her before) a good friend. Still in touch with him and his gal friend

Devalis -ex Leader (his title on their forums is: "RageQuit & GuildBank Thief" ) LOL do i have to say anything bout him i guess not. My love for him goes wayyy back i dont know to what extend..

BigPunisher -ex Marshall (pk's, one of the top barbs, super geared) GRRR *hugs*
AshWorth (pk's, one of the first) not known him well enough

sinangel (i heard he is arrogant and annoying) *Why U PURGE* & *WHY U ***** these 2 lines defines this person the best i guess :P

Elend- havent known him more

well u missed on Krout,Miriade, crazymadmax and i guess a few more like Zmagee and others

ewingoil · November 2009

tontonvaldez wrote: »

So much has happened in this server since it's beginning. Legendary, I believe was the first faction created. Followed by Nefarious. Other guilds followed. Yet over time, many of the early guilds collapsed and disbanded. Some are now only shells of their former glory. Others remain strong but remain hidden and shy away from Territory Wars. Guilds like Shockwave and Outlaw collapsed but are rebuilding from almost the ground up.

ShockWave was created at the same time as Legendary and Nefarious.When SW fell apart most of them went to Leg. and possibly Nef.I imagine some went to others.There is still a core of them in SW.

MorgulLord - Sanctuary · November 2009

Wow, a discussion on Nef officers. Quite interesting. I'm glad that I'm still remembered by a few around here. ^^

As for the topic at hand, it is true Nef had the initial momentum and that did have an impact on whatever happened after. However, Nef has gone through so much <ups and downs alike> that I personally still consider it as an achievement.

I was there when the Nemesis saga unfolded and there were rumours of the "end of Nef" flying around all over the place. But it did not happen.

Everyone here who has discussed the role of leadership/officers have missed but one thing. We have always had loyal members. Yes, I agree there were/are people who were/are in it for only the money. But, we also have had and still continue to have real gems who have been loyal to Nef through thicks and thins of the guild. They were/are not necessarily officers, but members.

A guild cannot succeed until it has a strong core. We have all seen strong guilds in very dominant positions fall apart due to internal group-ism. In Nef, although, there have been cases of internal groups, we have always managed to find people who are willing to back the guild up no matter what.

I think at many levels, its the core of Nef <officers or not> that is responsible for its present position. I'm glad I had the opportunity to spend time with such a great bunch of people. I miss them a lot....but not for long I guess.... ^^

~Morgul

HolyInferno - Sanctuary · November 2009

i miss ML b:cry

HolyInferno - Sanctuary · November 2009

Whiner - Sanctuary wrote: »

I like that, it gives me the power to stalk people like you because you never know I even was there

No but I am a nice officer just like any other in the faction. We have been voted by our faction members because we have something to offer the faction and because the faction thinks we are good at what we are doing.
I never wanted to be famous, this is really not the reason I am an officer. I always get to know people I belive are good (hence the reason why I never got to know you). You may not know me but it's actually thanks to me you joined Nefarious. I never wanted to know you, but I know that Sinanju trusted you greatly and he was a very good friend of me. Now I feel it actually was a mistake to let you join Nefarious.

Anyway, we are officers because we want to help the greatest faction in Sanctuary, not because we want fame. I find this whole thread amusing ^^

oO

I are devil , you are a saint?

sigh, people are always so quick to assume they are being attacked.

So you want a thank you from me? Oh thank you a bundles for letting me into Nefarious!!! or should i drop trou right now and bend over ? ^^

push for a person to be let into a faction and then avoid contact with him his entire stay in the faction. My goodness. you should write a book on leadership, you're chok full it!

MorgulLord - Sanctuary · November 2009

Miss you too Holy. Hope all's well with you. ^^

You might see a little more of me from now on though. :P

~Morgul

Xoria - Sanctuary · November 2009

Morgul said it all really. It's never up to one person; factions that rely too heavily on one person, or even one group, eventually erode and break. In some, but maybe not all, other factions, officer is merely just an extra word at the end of the name of the faction. Officers in Nef are basically given a full time job to help keep the faction running smooth. b:shocked We all have jobs to do and if that job isn't being done, it's very notice-able.

Herne, lol b:surrender there are other's in the server with more channeling than me b:cry

Bobbyjoe - Sanctuary · November 2009

Am I the only one that even mentioned MeanGreen???? b:surrender

MorgulLord - Sanctuary · November 2009

Bobbyjoe - Sanctuary wrote: »

Am I the only one that even mentioned MeanGreen???? b:surrender

Meangreen. There, I said it too. :P

On a serious note, yes MeanGreen was a really nice guy. Very helpful dude. Too bad that his IRL commitments forced him to leave.

~Morgul

Deceptistar - Sanctuary · November 2009

MorgulLord - Sanctuary wrote: »

Everyone here who has discussed the role of leadership/officers have missed but one thing. We have always had loyal members. Yes, I agree there were/are people who were/are in it for only the money. But, we also have had and still continue to have real gems who have been loyal to Nef through thicks and thins of the guild. They were/are not necessarily officers, but members.

A guild cannot succeed until it has a strong core. We have all seen strong guilds in very dominant positions fall apart due to internal group-ism. In Nef, although, there have been cases of internal groups, we have always managed to find people who are willing to back the guild up no matter what.

I think at many levels, its the core of Nef <officers or not> that is responsible for its present position. I'm glad I had the opportunity to spend time with such a great bunch of people. I miss them a lot....but not for long I guess.... ^^

~Morgul

Well the really hard part for this topic was, as said in the beginning, weeding out the factor of money and land. If its a factor that you can pass it on to the #2 and #3 of the server and also honestly, ignoring any ego, say they ALSO might be as successful, then its back to question one.

Loyalty is a must. But to each guild there is a hard core of loyal members (at least the factions that are stable) Its usually only a handful and the ratio ranges from 4:10 to 1:10. Personally, when you have this much members, squeezing out who is and who isnt the one that will stay with you is hard to find unless, like you said, they already went through the phase.

I think the first few answers make sense tho. Ultimately you need to find the 'uniqueness' of the said faction, maybe thats an easier word. Because technically, loyal members reside in alot of separate factions. I know I have some in my own faction too ever since that double crash of seppuku and nemesis exodus. They are active, full time (some parents lol), and lvling, stayed and help rebuild carefully bit by bit 11 or so grueling months since we got left to a whopping 15 members from original 100 or so pple, when they could have just jumped ship way back then and with good reason.

Nefarious has also been present since day one, and I think they certainly have way more to look at in terms of a faction (as a whole). Seems weird but I dont want it to end as just a 'Because we are one happy loyal family', since many MANY other factions big and small can snugly fit this term.

zhiwei · December 2009

hello ML!! im Uni, my archer got banned, haiz!!!

ZzzKyantezzz - Sanctuary · December 2009

Unibow got banned b:sad why , how , when WHY!b:angry

Dissecting Nefarious Part 1: Officers

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