Pets, numbers, and sorting. Answer to the eternal "What's the best pet?" question !
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hmm does anyone know the different attack values of different scorpions? because i need a scorpion that can move faster than 7.0 m/s >.>
The Weeping Scorpion Queen is what i had in mind, hopefully its atk isnt too gimped compared to the lvl 2 scorpions.0 -
Why cant i tame a Pentastral Beetle?
i tried like 20 times no luck i has a green thing in the corner still no tame[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
There is no surviving.... at least not when I'm through with you0 -
WOW this is pretty damn good just read it ty for all the effort put into it, it helped alot with what pet to choose[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
~Heatwave Leader~0 -
Niceeee, very felpful for the new ones. ive learned a bit from thisss. b:thanksb:pleasedb:pleasedb:pleased0
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Shaodu cub is actually higher pdef and mdef hp and all then armored(have both at lvl82),frogling has 2nd highest mdef under Phoenix(it's at lvl82 as well).0
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ShadowsCast - Dreamweaver wrote: »Shaodu cub is actually higher pdef and mdef hp and all then armored(have both at lvl82),frogling has 2nd highest mdef under Phoenix(it's at lvl82 as well).
Armored bear has a different growth curve than the cub. They actualy are not related at all when it comes to growth curves.
Antelup pup and carapest (the lowest level one), have higher mdef than the frog. They actualy have the highest mdef of any pet, except the phoenix (not counting bless buff). Look it up on the site listed on page one.
At level 90 Mdef
Frog - 8280
Carapest and Antelup Pup - 8662
Prickly Oddfoot Pup - 8327
At level 90 Mdef/Pdef and HP
Cub- 7594 - HP-3149
Armored Bear - 7618 HP-3149Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.0
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I'm pretty pleased with herc. x3 but i would've liked a cool beetle :O0
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somehow most of these datathings have few mobs in it,...
lots of mobs arent in em,...
(if u look in auction house,... there u see lots more tamable pets than in most databases,... )0 -
somehow most of these datathings have few mobs in it,...
lots of mobs arent in em,...
(if u look in auction house,... there u see lots more tamable pets than in most databases,... )
thats bascause some of the pets in the auction house aren't actually tamable. Hence, why they aren't in online databases.0 -
Nehemiah - Harshlands wrote: »thats bascause some of the pets in the auction house aren't actually tamable. Hence, why they aren't in online databases.
many of em are,... but theyr not in the database,...
sower of the flame for example,... in the valley where drake is,... (a sidevalley, not on yer path),... is a pet thats tamable, but only found it on pwdatabase,... but not seen stats when tamed yet,... (well i have, coz i tamed it, just out of curiosity),... but u get my point0 -
I noticed crystal magmite was up on the and not the volcanic magmite. Did I waste my time getting the volcanic one instead of a crystal one?0
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The crystalline and volcanic magmites are in the same pet group - so the only difference is that one starts out at a slightly higher level and so has slightly worse stats, but comes with tough.
The difference is negligible, but technically yes, it's worse. Such a tiny bit worse that I'd not worry about it if I were you, though.0 -
Volcanic is one level higher and starts with bash 1/sandblow 1/tough 1 while the crystaline has bash 2/sandblow 1. The volcanic has very slightly worse aggro due to skill differences and a couple points less attack. It also has 3 hp less, and .1 speed more. Resists on the volcanic are slightly lower as well, but those don't matter as they both have the same percent reduction on their damage.
Depending on your plans for customizing skills, the volcanic can end up being better. Having tough, if you're making use of it the volcanic takes less damage than the crystaline. If you are going to customize them, the volcanic is worse in all ways than run speed where it has a .1 advantage.
The difference is so marginal between the two though that it doesn't matter which one you use.0 -
I was wondering going through the AH this morning and looking at some of the prices on rares.What do you all think of Elysium Fowl as battle pet as it comes with lvl 4 bash and lvl 2 tough one 1 more skill?I was thinking something different than a foxwings and sawflies.0
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The fowl isn't a bad pet. It's similar to the foxwing - doesn't hit all that hard, but survives better than a wasp. It's also not in any way shape or form rare.
If you're using disposable air-pets it's a fine choice. If you're levelling a low level one up as you go, then skip it.0 -
Anyone have any idea how long till more details on new pets come out? I just started a veno alt last week. She's got qingfu and a rhino drake atm, (I really hate how the magmite blocks your view, though I may use it over the beetle in the end anyway, not sure.) And as cool as the rhino looks, he's not that great an offensive pet, and not as good a tank as magmite or qingfu. Actually, he's not as good an attacker either. I'm very iinterested in possible new alternative to magmite, and new pets in general.0
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Also, to clarify, I'm hardly demanding the author of this thread go out tomorrow (or at all) and add to it. But I just started playing again after getting in at the end of the beta last year, then quitting. Consequently, this is the first expansion I've played through. Is anyone planning on checking stats of all the new tamables? Or how long does it usually take after an expansion for these stickied thread to update? i wouldn't mind going after them, but like I said, I just started playing again recently. I've got a 23 archer, a 18 wiz, 13 veno, and 9 barb. Thought I'd try out all the classes this time around, though I think veno is still my favorite. It's so versatile.0
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RaiKazeki - Dreamweaver wrote: »Anyone have any idea how long till more details on new pets come out? I just started a veno alt last week. She's got qingfu and a rhino drake atm, (I really hate how the magmite blocks your view, though I may use it over the beetle in the end anyway, not sure.) And as cool as the rhino looks, he's not that great an offensive pet, and not as good a tank as magmite or qingfu. Actually, he's not as good an attacker either. I'm very iinterested in possible new alternative to magmite, and new pets in general.
Who knows for new pets. Given one long day I could probably find everything/most everything that can be tamed outdoors. There might be an easier way to go about it though.RaiKazeki - Dreamweaver wrote: »Also, to clarify, I'm hardly demanding the author of this thread go out tomorrow (or at all) and add to it. But I just started playing again after getting in at the end of the beta last year, then quitting. Consequently, this is the first expansion I've played through. Is anyone planning on checking stats of all the new tamables? Or how long does it usually take after an expansion for these stickied thread to update? i wouldn't mind going after them, but like I said, I just started playing again recently. I've got a 23 archer, a 18 wiz, 13 veno, and 9 barb. Thought I'd try out all the classes this time around, though I think veno is still my favorite. It's so versatile.
I just finished working out the attack calculations two days before the expansion came out (and they're still off on various pets by up to +/- 5%), but it's close enough. I've got a database of growth rates of stats for all ~285 pre expansion pets that can be tamed (as in, are in the game now), along with a list that's about 85% complete that includes levels of all skills for every pet. It only has a few holes left to fix. Once that's done, I can list every pet at any level and give it's tanking ability, damage without skills (to compare potential for customized things), and damage with starting skills (for uncustomized pets). Anyways, when it comes to how long that will take me... it depends on if pwdatabase or some other player gets a list (complete, incomplete is useless for me) up by the time I can mess with it.0 -
Wow, thats crazy impressive. I can't wait to see that. Must have taken you a while. Hopefully I can get my veno up a good bit quickly. My girlfriend and I started with archer and cleric as our mains, but we've been having so much fun with the untamed, its possible they could out level our elves soon. I think I'm gonna drop my Wiz. She's not as much fun to play as the veno, archer, or barb. And I've been checking out assassin today and Psychic is on the list for tomorrow. But of all the characters I've played, Veno is definitely the most fun and versatile, and the pets and magic are the best part of that. Wish expanding the bag wasn't such a pain in the ****. Thanks for all the work you did on that list for people, thats quite a project for one person.0
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It's not that much work really. There's a site out there that lists most pets (it's missing about 20% of them) that helped a lot for getting skill levels. I think the spreadsheet in this thread lists several as well. It's all info that's known now anyways. The only new thing really is being able to sort of calculate attack (granted, that's pretty major since ecatomb level 90 stats are all we really had to go on before).0
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Brael - Dreamweaver wrote: »It's not that much work really. There's a site out there that lists most pets (it's missing about 20% of them) that helped a lot for getting skill levels. I think the spreadsheet in this thread lists several as well. It's all info that's known now anyways. The only new thing really is being able to sort of calculate attack (granted, that's pretty major since ecatomb level 90 stats are all we really had to go on before).
use the info the japanese wiki uses??? (ecatomb is based on the japanese one,...)
http://kanbisekai.wikiwiki.jp/?%CD%C5%C0%BA%CD%D1%A5%DA%A5%C3%A5%C8%2F%C0%AE%C4%B9%B5%AD%CF%BF#r3g54e67
(if u know a bit of the pets out of ur head, (or use translator), than u will see lots more numbers than on ecatomb, so bigger base datasheet to work on,... (knowing the levels at which they r wild, and the speed is a big thing to go on, to guess which numbers belong to what pet,...)0 -
Just a heads up to everyone, the http://snowbloom.110mb.com/pi.htm site doesn't work anymore. It redirects to a different page that is in...Spanish, I think. b:surrenderAlso Known As: Sora_Kaiyou
I got tired of my avatar not showing up. b:sad0 -
You are not gainfully employed just starting school did not pick up your allowance and parents will not commission you a zen card.
Replace a herc with any pet that have added fire magic within their attacks.
Volcanic mag works just as good if you cannot afford a herc right now.
Fast pets include wolves, rabbits, spiders, antler, and or cats if you can get someone to catch a rabbit for you fine, remember there is an lvl requirement to use certain pets, if not wait until your lvl is high enough and catch them yourself.
Exp. ppl charge between 100k and 500k idk sounds questionable to me when the pet trainer will only give them one coin for a trade.
If you are new to the game after doing maybe about 10 quests including mobs you will make 100k but seems like a waste because you have no guarantee that other ppl will squad you for fb, bh or help with their missions
(remember some ppl have a problem accepting low lvls because they are afraid low lvl skilled players are better than they are).
You have no funds for lvling your skills or buying basic necessities within game.
Good thing is you now have a pet that can help you complete your missions if you choose to solo or squad.
The choice is yours b:chuckleSuccubae - Dreamweaver wrote: »Pet ranking using stats and maths
~-oOo-~
What's the best magical def pet ? Is it better to have high armor or high HP ? What are the fastest pets ?
All (well, almost) your questions about numbers answered now !
I created a spreadsheet (thank you Openoffice) listing most pets you can tame in the game, their growing charts and their base stats. I included the growing formulas, so that it's possible to have pet stats at any level. (I couldn't do that with the Patk, because no one found the exact formula yet. And believe me, I tried.)~-oOo-~
Now, how do I use it ?
Well, it's time for you to find the sort option. You can sort by anything you want, but you should try :
- Overall Def Score (this one includes dodge even if it's experimental)
- Pdef Score (the one with dodge is still experimental)
- Mdef score
- Dps at lvl 90 with Bash
- Moving speed
The score thing is explained later.
You can change the level considered on the second sheet (labelled config) in B1. Pay attention, the stats will be right only for pets which have a tame level lower than the level you choose. Don't check Magmite stats at level 5...
There are holes in my data : this concerns mostly pets with red names. Do not blindly take numbers as they are, for example a moving speed of 0.8 doen't mean that the pet is very slow, but it means that I don't have the moving speed when tamed. Also there can be roundoff errors, but that's not really a problem because the difference won't be noticeable ingame.~-oOo-~
Now, what about this 'score' thing ?
The def score takes into account both HP and armor. The base idea is simple : what would be the equivalent HP if the pet has no armor, but with the same survivability ?
Let's say a pet has a Mdef which reduce the damage taken by 50% and 1000 HP. It would be as strong if he has 0 armor but twice the HP, 2000 (well, not for your heal...). 75% reduction and 1000 HP is the same thing as having 4000 HP, and so on.
Another way of thinking about it would be :~-oOo-~
So where's your magical table ?
Here it is !~-oOo-~
You document is too big, I'm lost. Can you resume it ?
Okay, here are some top tens in decreasing order. Only for land, non-ranged pets. And only the lower tame level of the family. And at level 90.
Top 10 overall def :
Baby Hercules
Shaodu Cub
Armored Bear
Astral Beetle (Hept-, Pent-, Quadr-)
Crystalline Magmite
Qingfu (Emerald, Jaden, Verdant)
Tuskmoor (Plainswalker, Riverside, Doft)
Tauroc (Angler, Logger, Stevedore)
Rhinodrake (Billabong, Boondock, Plainswalker)
Frogling
Top 10 Pdef (without dodge as it's still experimental) :
Baby Hercules
Crystalline Magmite
Armored Bear
Shaodu Cub
Qingfu (Emerald, Jaden, Verdant)
Astral Beetle (Hept-, Pent-, Quadr-)
Tauroc (Angler, Logger, Stevedore)
Tuskmoor (Plainswalker, Riverside, Doft)
Minkii (Mongoose, Redtail, Sable)
Overclocked Mechrab
Top 10 Mdef :
Baby Hercules
Armored Bear
Shaodu Cub
Frogling
Astral Beetle (Hept-, Pent-, Quadr-)
Rhinodrake (Billabong, Boondock, Plainswalker)
Tuskmoor (Plainswalker, Riverside, Doft)
Carapest Terror
Qingfu (Emerald, Jaden, Verdant)
Guardian Wolf
Top 10 Dps, including Bash lvl 5 (Be warned, I don't have all the numbers ! The last one don't have a high attack) :
Baby Hercules
Scorpion (Pollen, Pup, Varicose)
Crystalline Magmite
Antelope Pup
Nine Tail Foxie
Bloodthirsty Adalwolf
Kowlin
Cuddly Pup
Qingfu (Emerald, Jaden, Verdant)
Frogling
Top 11 ('cause there are ex aequo) Moving speed (Hey, where's the Hercule ? The baby is too fat, he's only 13th) :
Kowlin
Nine Tail Foxie
Cuddly Pup
Petalii Hexkiss
Clever Cactopod
Steelhide Grimalkin
Huggy Hare
Armored Bear
Tabby Plumdrop
Mastiff of the Great Divide
Guardian Wolf~-oOo-~
This is too simple, I simply don't believe it. So, where's the trick ?
There's no trick, but there are limitations, of course.
- The HP recovery has not been taken into account, because 1) I don't see how to do it and 2) No one has the numbers.
- Actually, lots of def is better than lots of HP, because it has the same survivability and you can heal faster, thus saving mana and time. If your heal is 500 and you pet has 1000 HP and 75% damage reduction, you'll need 2 heals, while with 4000 HP and no amor, you'll need 8 heals... But I don't see how to include it in the sheet. You can have some clues by sorting by HP.
- Hit rate (not hit speed) has not been taken into account, because it strongly depends on the opponent. But it has an effect for sure.
What are all these formulas you're using ? Did you find them yourself ?
I found almost all of them, yes. I saw on some sites that some of them where found by others too, so they shouldn't be too bad! ;-)
Now, here they are :
Score :
- PSurvivabilityScore = HP / ( 1 - %ReducFromPdef ) / ( 1 - %Evade )
%ReducFromPdef is the percent damage reduction from pet's armor (see later for the formula). Actually it's a ratio, between 0 and 1.
(1-%ReducFromPdef) is the ratio of the damage the pet actually receives.
HP / ( 1 - %ReducFromPdef ) is the equivalent HP the pet would have if it had no armor and the same survivability.
As I stated before : Let's say a pet has a Pdef which reduce the damage taken by 50% and 1000 HP. It would be as strong if he has 0 armor but twice the HP, 2000 (well, not for your heal...). 75% reduction and 1000 HP is the same thing as having 4000 HP, and so on.
Same goes for evasion.
- MSurvivabilityScore = HP / ( 1 - %ReducFromMdef )
Same here as Pdef, but without evasion. I guess that's why the average Mdef is higher than Pdef: you don't evade magic. Of course, 'cause it's magic!
- SurvivabilityScore = ( PSurvivabilityScore + MsurvivabilityScore ) /2
The mean, simply.
%Reduction:
- %ReducFromPdef = Pdef / ( Pdef + 40 * Lvl )
- %ReducFromMdef = Mdef / ( Mdef + 40 * Lvl )
- %Evade = Evasion / (Evasion + 40 * Lvl ) / 2 (?) seems to work, if anyone can confirm...
Dps:
- Dps = Patk * HitSpeed + BashDps
- BashDps step by step:
BashDps = %BashDamage * Patk * BashInterval
BashDps = %BashDamage * Patk * HitSpeed / Bash#HitInterval
BashDps = %BashDamage * Patk * HitSpeed / ceil( BashCooldown * HitSpeed )
GrowthChart: (by level)
- HPInc = 20 + 2.5*pts
- P/MdefInc = (160 + 20*pts) / 3 = 53.33 + 6.67*pts
- HitInc = (40 + 5*pts) / 3 = 13.33 + 1.67*pts
- EvasionInc = (80 + 10*pts)/9 = 8.89 + 1.11*pts
- Speed = +0.1 at each lvl x0~-oOo-~
On which web sites did you find all these informations ?
- http://snowbloom.110mb.com/pi.htm
Screenshots, growth charts and locations of all pets lvl 1 -> 60+
- http://perfectworld.clanfree.net/familiergraphique.htm
http://perfectworld.clanfree.net/pet1a10.htm
http://perfectworld.clanfree.net/compapet.htm
Growth charts numeric values, starting stats, screenshots, comparisons (in French)
- http://kanbisekai.wikiwiki.jp/
Like the previous site, but more accurate and more complete. (in Japanese)
I used http://74.125.39.132/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&langpair=ja|en&u=http://kanbisekai.wikiwiki.jp/%3F%25CD%25C5%25C0%25BA%25CD%25D1%25A5%25DA%25A5%25C3%25A5%25C8&usg=ALkJrhhV4jGky5Yhxc77L6xKXNnBMyikfg
and Yahoo Translate to understand it.
- http://www.ecatomb.net/petstat.php
Pet stats at 90 (seems to come from the japanese or french site, but with PWI names)~-oOo-~
What pet do you personnaly use ?
I used a Sable Minkii for a long time, then I changed server and wanted to try something else. It was fast, rather good defense, average attack, and a funny animation when hitting.
I currently use a Pentastral Beetle which has lots of HP and defense, and its color fits well with the fox form I use. I just tamed a red Weeping Scorpion Queen as a dps pet, but I still have to try it.
Yes, I tried the Magmite. And hated it : 1) everyone has it (that was before Herc existed), 2) too big, I couldn't clic on mobs, 3) too damn slow ! And 4) everyone already had it.
I had a very cute Snow Hare (don't you think its noise is like one of a camera? It makes me want to take screenshots ;-) ) but I didn't find it very useful, apart in towns...
For an air pet I used both a Petite Sawfly ('cause I'm French) and a Pinnaer Foxwing ('cause I use fox form), but as there's not much air quests, I can't tell a lot about them...
I'm planning on trying an Antelope Pup, because it's cute and has a strong attack. An Eldergoth Marksmann one day, maybe...~-oOo-~
You bloody idiot, you made a stupid mistake over there ! Do you think I wouldn't see it ?
Oops, sorry, I'll try to correct it fast... Just tell me where and what !
By the way, constructive comments are appreciated ! Thanks.~-oOo-~
Edit: Some more explanations about the formulas. Thanks Solandri !
Edit: Correction of the confusion between Patk and Dps. Thanks Obsessed ![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
b:pleased0 -
mhm lol frogling is good mag tank..as lwo lvl he is not good. but when he get higer lvl like 30+.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
QQ If i did Crazy stone at 3x AND not 6x, i had been lvl 105 now!
Didnt know about Bh/CrazyStone before lvl 6x LOL0 -
Wow Veryy nice. (: i personally use a shodou cub and i love it.b:thanksb:pleasedb:pleasedb:pleased0
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Whats the best tanker if u don't have $Beach Party!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I think, perhaps, you need to take a look at the Glacial Walkers. At the same level, it trumped my Crystalline Magmite in almost every stat, and it even outdoes my Shaodo Cub in many stats. I'm considering keeping it as my main pet. I love the cub because it's cute, but I think Glacial Walkers are taking over for most pets.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Soleada - 101 Venomancer - Radiance Executor0 -
great job! b:thanks
one suggestion, perhaps: how about adding water pets, best choices for various levels? i always suggest turtles, but i hear some of the mermaids are better.Succubae - Dreamweaver wrote: »![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
(and hugs to Flauschkatze for the sig!)
"Thanks for writing me-- it's always great to hear from a vet.
-FrankieRaye"
Playing here since '08b:heart0 -
I haven't played since the summer! What is this Glacial walker pet? is it a new legendery pet and are there any new legendary pets?0
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