Pwi Debate Thread!
Comments
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IDaun - Dreamweaver wrote: »Also-- if you have nothing better to do than mess up this thread, leave. It's a decent idea. Go troll some other thread. There's a ton out there.
NO U
b:angry[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...0 -
CURRENT TOPIC: Do you think leveling with Oracles is completely wrong? I'm not just talking about going from level 30-90 but also about going from level 89-90. Do You: A: Support the use of Oracles or B: Dont support the use of oraclesDIFFICULTY: 4 TOPIC CLOSES: Monday November 16, 2009 @ 10:00 PM
Debate ON b:cuteSins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »
CURRENT TOPIC: With the information we currently have(assuming it is true), what is your opinion on the Tideborn? DIFFICULTY: 2 TOPIC CLOSES: November 14, 2009 @ 10:00 PM
I'm sorry, but this thread isn't a debating thread, unless you give out a specific question with the choices for 2 groups of people to actually take side(s) on. What you seem to be suggesting is a thread where people just add onto each other ideas, or opinions, building a bridge to 1.) prove nothing, or 2.) want people to just agree to one idea. The point of debating is to convince one or more person(s) to your side of the idea. Or in another words, this is just another discussion thread to discuss the Tideborn expansion.
Debate: [di-beyt] noun, verb, -bat⋅ed, -bat⋅ing.
- a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints.
[source: dictionary.reference.com]
Please open a actual debatable topic, or ask a mod to close this thread.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
♥ - 藤林 杏-様 - ♥
♥ Kyou Fujibayashi-sama ♥0 -
oh god.. we're on oracle's now..
This is so going to turn into a flame thread.0 -
Nothings WRONG in a technical way...........Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »CURRENT TOPIC: Do you think leveling with Oracles is completely wrong? I'm not just talking about going from level 30-90 but also about going from level 89-90.DIFFICULTY: 4 TOPIC CLOSES: Monday November 16, 2009 @ 10:00 PM
Debate ON b:cute
The problem is that this is a MMO and when you interact with a character that does not know their class, expecially if high lvl instances, it affects the other members as well not just you.
If there is a cure for this noob disease then praise be oracles....[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan0 -
Thats how you feel but some people may feel different. I know people who think using one oracle is a sin b:laughDeceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »Nothings WRONG in a technical way...........
The problem is that this is a MMO and when you interact with a character that does not know their class, expecially if high lvl instances, it affects the other members as well not just you.
If there is a cure for this noob disease then praise be oracles....Accelerated - Sanctuary wrote: »I'm sorry, but this thread isn't a debating thread, unless you give out a specific question with the choices for 2 groups of people to actually take side(s) on. What you seem to be suggesting is a thread where people just add onto each other ideas, or opinions, building a bridge to 1.) prove nothing, or 2.) want people to just agree to one idea. The point of debating is to convince one or more person(s) to your side of the idea. Or in another words, this is just another discussion thread to discuss the Tideborn expansion.
Debate: [di-beyt] noun, verb, -bat⋅ed, -bat⋅ing.
- a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints.
[source: dictionary.reference.com]
Please open a actual debatable topic, or ask a mod to close this thread.
Fixed. Anything Else? Besides the fact my blue wont work x.x Feel free to PM me a topic you find suitable.Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
Being at lvl 69 I wish I could oracle to 80 atleast. I don't play much at the moment so leveling is sooooo slow.
Mind you the 15 minutes I had last night was great when I pk'd someone who attacked me first and biatched me out when I would not give their rednamed cursing mouth their stuff back.
Only used an oracle once or twice because it was a drop or something.tatuaje: grinding mobs and zhenning ???
frankieraye:All right, I admit it, it's a bit retro. lol.0 -
vote for close.0
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Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »CURRENT TOPIC: Do you think leveling with Oracles is completely wrong? I'm not just talking about going from level 30-90 but also about going from level 89-90.DIFFICULTY: 4 TOPIC CLOSES: Monday November 16, 2009 @ 10:00 PM
Debate ON b:cute
Gah. xD
Leveling with Oracles (I mean, from 30-50+) is... I'm not sure whether to call it unfair or wrong or what. It's their money, I suppose. I, personally, consider it cheating because others have leveled by grinding and doing quests and all that-- also, you miss out on a LOT by leveling with oracles.
It's unfair in the sense that if you don't learn how to play your char... well, it's unfair to those that squad with you and end up squadding with, say, a cleric that spams purehearted on bosses, or a level 80+ veno that doesn't know how to pull. It's a waste of your's and other's time if you just level with Oracles and can't play your class.
From 89-90, and other few levels like that-- I don't have an issue with it. I assume that once you get to 90 you'll be doing your quests and stuff, right? And you still know how to play your char? That-- no issue with. I've done that myself, if I have a little bit of exp left that I don't want to grind.
Issue with oracles, though-- the Wicked Pirates. You get oracles in your level... 35? Supply Stash-- let the newbs use the oracles if they arrive, stop hogging the pirates if you see a level 35 coming to kill them. You can continue killing afterwards. If you need to, make a line. It's so much fairer to the level 35s if you give them a chance at it.
And... your blue won't work? b:chuckle0 -
I went from level 66 to 70 on only oracles. I know its very little compared to what I hear about others doing but does that make me bad? I always end up being the tank on every BH, FB, and TT including my own.I am a barb that does not powerlevel, nor cash shop. I may not be the highest level, nor have the best gear. However unlike others, I know how to play.b:pleased0
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gummy bears vs gummy worms0
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Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »CURRENT TOPIC: Do you think leveling with Oracles is completely wrong? I'm not just talking about going from level 30-90 but also about going from level 89-90.DIFFICULTY: 4 TOPIC CLOSES: Monday November 16, 2009 @ 10:00 PM
Debate ON b:cute
Well... I know that getting from 89 to 90 is a big fat SOB, so oracles for that? I don't think that would do much harm more than provide a well deserved boost to people who worked their butt off to get that far.
But people who go from 30-90? With nothing but those stupid books? Yuck. Get them away from me and kill them or something PLEASE. Or for the love of whatever class they are make them learn how to play it! I suppose I shouldn't stuff them all in a group like a sardine can, but oi, I've worked with people who make me stare at my screen and go "How the **** did you get to level 60? You are an idiot and downright stupid in the true sense of the word. Please, log off and forget your password. When I am a higher level I may consider buying dolls, seeking you out and killing you, just for being a complete stupid moron." <~~ I think I've said that at least once to my computer, meanwhile my friend is sitting at her computer trying to resist the urge to PK them right then.
Oracles seem to allow those players who couldn't get past level 20 in one piece, a gateway to level 60+ on the spot rather than just those super persistent special ones we all seem to know and love. And I really do not like that.
The above is way more opinion and experience based than actual debate material but I have to throw in my two cents.
Conclusion?
No I don't think it is completely wrong.
EDIT:
This post is about to get really long…
Ok, Oracles…
Any sort of oracle use by a player who is good at their class, and knows how to use it is fine by me.
But those players who know nothing, and learn nothing more than “Get money, buy nice EQ, skill spam.” I don’t like it. Oracles, as I stated open an easy door to high levels so that even those people who would have quit and given up throw some money in and get a high level. It doesn’t teach them how to make money, it doesn’t teach them how to play, it won’t teach them anything they need to know.
Sadly, that flaw is irreversible because now, someone has to suffer, be it them, or their friends teaching them how to play, PWI for allowing weak links into the player base, or just other players in various ways. Oracles could allow a cleric the chance to stuff all their points into some bogus stat and really mess up, or for a BM to think that magic would be a good plan. There are so many ways for those books to do damage, it’s like allowing both children and adults access to a double edged blade. Some know how to use it, others fail at life, and then there’s the grey area.
Coming from another server I see no issue with it so long as they know what they are doing and no one suffers from it. I don’t mind players who toss money into the game, level up, and work off of builds or anything. Oracles are a slap in the face to those who worked hard for what they have now, but the worst thing it has done to this game, by far in my opinion, is break the flow. People with money and bots have no issue getting those oracles, and it makes actually playing the game, as I have said before in other places, obsolete.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
When Saukey decides she can swim, I know I didn't get the DC pop-up again. Wish she swam when it matters.0 -
Hehe i got my blue working again. Let me play devils advocate for a bit. What about cases like Tatujae(?) where they dont play for much time. Would it be ok for her to use oracles? Or what about people who previously played on another server and just switched servers and used oracles to get to a high level?IDaun - Dreamweaver wrote: »Gah. xD
Leveling with Oracles (I mean, from 30-50+) is... I'm not sure whether to call it unfair or wrong or what. It's their money, I suppose. I, personally, consider it cheating because others have leveled by grinding and doing quests and all that-- also, you miss out on a LOT by leveling with oracles.
It's unfair in the sense that if you don't learn how to play your char... well, it's unfair to those that squad with you and end up squadding with, say, a cleric that spams purehearted on bosses, or a level 80+ veno that doesn't know how to pull. It's a waste of your's and other's time if you just level with Oracles and can't play your class.
From 89-90, and other few levels like that-- I don't have an issue with it. I assume that once you get to 90 you'll be doing your quests and stuff, right? And you still know how to play your char? That-- no issue with. I've done that myself, if I have a little bit of exp left that I don't want to grind.
Issue with oracles, though-- the Wicked Pirates. You get oracles in your level... 35? Supply Stash-- let the newbs use the oracles if they arrive, stop hogging the pirates if you see a level 35 coming to kill them. You can continue killing afterwards. If you need to, make a line. It's so much fairer to the level 35s if you give them a chance at it.
And... your blue won't work? b:chuckleMalego - Heavens Tear wrote: »I went from level 66 to 70 on only oracles. I know its very little compared to what I hear about others doing but does that make me bad? I always end up being the tank on every BH, FB, and TT including my own.
Thats up to you to decide.
As for my opinions,
Im a bit iffy on this topic but in the end, Im against the use of oracles. They have their good uses but are easily abused. I personally used 5 Oracles but 2 were from my stash and 3 were drops when i was level 32. The next oracle i got was at lvl 65 and i started selling my oracle drops since then.Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »gummy bears vs gummy worms
I vote gummy bears!!!!! Even though they are both the same thing, bears are cuter.0 -
You make a debate thread yet your replies to this are only one step away of what you told us NOT to say. You are cherry picking your replies an d making statements to the opinions made, and not really encouraging debate from your side. I'll start posting like you in this thread.Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »Thats how you feel but some people may feel different. I know people who think using one oracle is a sin b:laugh
Fixed. Anything Else? Besides the fact my blue wont work x.x Feel free to PM me a topic you find suitable.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan0 -
Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »Hehe i got my blue working again. Let me play devils advocate for a bit. What about cases like Tatujae(?) where they dont play for much time. Would it be ok for her to use oracles? Or what about people who previously played on another server and just switched servers and used oracles to get to a high level?
Thats up to you to decide.
As for my opinions,
Im a bit iffy on this topic but in the end, Im against the use of oracles. They have their good uses but are easily abused.
b:surrender Stop making sense, it's not fair.
But yeah, it probably does depend on the circumstance. A random level 30~40 that wants an easy ride in the game? No. A level 90, say, Archer that wants a level 80 Barb? No.
Someone who has taken the time INGAME to learn to play their char, and knows how things work? Sure. But you'll know them when you see them, because you probably wouldn't be able to tell whether they level'd with oracles or not. Just because you are a high level Wizzie doesn't mean you know how BMs work and how to play one. Sure, you might know a bit about them, but, it's about the same amount of info that you get from reading the forums/looking up skills on ecatomb. Not good enough.
I actually know someone that had to get up and do something real quick during a TW-- he let his sister, a veno around his level, play. You could tell the difference because suddenly, his char was dying more than usual. xD
You need to spend time ingame to learn how to play your char right, or else you're gonna waste everyone's time when you squad with them.
And... if you don't have a lot of time to play, I'm sorry. But if you don't have enough time to learn how to play your char well, then don't use oracles for an easy level. *read above for reasons*
Edit: I just randomly picked wizzie, didn't even realize. XD 'You' isn't directed at /you/, btw. I don't know what chars you have. b:chuckle0 -
Bowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »gummy bears vs gummy worms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=astISOttCQ0
Nuff said.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
♥ - 藤林 杏-様 - ♥
♥ Kyou Fujibayashi-sama ♥0 -
BearsBowlinbob - Lost City wrote: »gummy bears vs gummy worms must bite head off first.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]lagunal8.deviantart.com
★"New weekly quests! "Discover the bug in the patch""-Nihillae★"My father would beat me if he found out I was QQing over a virtual pony."-Neurosis★"You're amongst the biggest blobs of fail I've ever seen in my life."-Ninnuam★"A statistic said 3% people of the world get enjoyment primarily from making people upset, and you are trying to discriminate them"-ilystah★["How To Tank Rebirth Order Delta (86+)"-Stickygreen Barb (1)restat. you want full magic, Arcane armour build (2)when mobs come /faceroll on your keyboard and you will one shot all the mobs (3)rinse and repeat]★"I've been spammed with 3 poops for 2 hours."-ColdSteele★"If someone fights learning, I don't bother with them outside of amusement factor."-Telarith★"This thread is a joke right? Please say yes."-eatwithspoons★ "This is why you don't post your opinions on the internet, most of the replies you get will be from people who missed a hug or two sometime in their youth."-Alacol★"Sexy! A post with a Binomial Distribution."-Asterelle★"It's about time PW starts to separate out the noob Sins from the rest."-salvati0n★"Shoo troll >:O"-TheDan0 -
Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »You make a debate thread yet your replies to this are only one step away of what you told us NOT to say. You are cherry picking your replies an d making statements to the opinions made, and not really encouraging debate from your side. I'll start posting like you in this thread.
Sorry, I'm not understanding. I didnt mean that in a mean way. I was just saying I fixed the problem by adding 2 sides of arguments and seeing if anyone else noticed any other mistakes. Oh wait...nvm
I was just trying to add food to thought and i added my opinion above(2 posts above yours). Even though my friend is anti-oracle, i dont really mind them but think they are easily abused. I personally used oracles (as stated above) but i feel i can get more of a benefit from them by putting them in AH.
I apologize.Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
I don't wanna be the party pooper, but sometimes debates are just unnecessary. All is good in the occasional war of the wits, but concerning these oracles and certain choices in general- I see it like this;
You do as you choose, so others have the same privilage/right/freedom (whatever you wanna call it lol) as well. Not really a big deal or complicated at all.
We should spend more time caring about our choices and our situation. Also, we shouldn't really give a rats behind about what other people are doing anyway. As humans if something affects us- we must either adjust, adapt or live with it. People can debate on human choice all they want, but they won't get far.
/End Debate........ right? lolz0 -
Just 'cause they're unnecessary doesn't mean they're not fun. I love debating (and arguing, too, but, that's more a RL trait). I really hoped that this thread wouldn't die/more people would join/etc. >>' A little soon to see, but, looks like it's gonna die and fade from lack of people participating seriously.
b:sad0 -
Whats the debate about anyways?
Randomness is more epic anyways. b:victorytatuaje: grinding mobs and zhenning ???
frankieraye:All right, I admit it, it's a bit retro. lol.0 -
Edit: Since this was mentioned... the below text is my opinion, though I do make my statements as though they are fact. Not about to rework it now. Keep in mind, all statements made are subject to questioning/criticism/complements. Tell me what you think!
(A) Is using oracles completely wrong? No.
(B) Can the use of oracles be abused? Yes.
(C) Is leveling from 30-90 using only oracles always wrong? Perhaps not always.
(D) Is leveling from 80-90 using only oracles wrong? Probably not.
If you want to see my reasoning, read wall of text below.
A) -Is using oracles 'wrong'?. Answer, no it is not. They are a part of the game; if leveling by oracles was not proper, it makes sense that we wouldn't be able to do so. However, one can clearly trade tokens for oracles; the developers must have known people would use them to level quickly, and if they didn't/don't have a problem with it, you cannot call leveling with oracles 'wrong'.
-Can the use of oracles be abused? Most certainly. If you are not familiar with a particular class, many many problems can arise once you start trying to find groups for TT/BH/etc. Here are a list of problems I can see arising in general:-dealing with different types of mobs; ranged physical, ranged magic but up close melee, always magic, always melee. How does your class deal with different mob types? [Example: On my barb, magic caster mobs = first attack is alacrity (cancel the magic attack). On physical only mobs, I open with an evasion reducing attack or a stun. On ranged physical attackers, I use certain slowdown attacks in certain combinations.] What do you do if you aggro several mobs at once (each class has different escape tactics), etc, etc.
-underclassed gear: I have seen high level players with ridiculously low level gear. No surprise, then, that in TT 1-2 and 1-3, these players have trouble surviving the aoe bosses.
-no reputation points: This is a severe limitation; by not questing, you miss out on thousands of rep points, which are later crucial to gaining very nice rep gear.
-role of player in squads: Oracling alone cannot teach you squad dynamics. In particular, if your oracled character is your first character to the game, you will be clueless as to how you should behave in a group. Level of cluelessness depends on intelligence here folks; no way around it, some people just aren't the brightest bulbs, if you get my drift. Some specific examples:-Barbs: tanking (duh!). How to hold aggro, how to cancel boss aoe, how to use aoe aggro skills, how to keep squad alive and yourself alive (knowing your own limits). An oracled barb will make a lot more mistakes to start with, garuanteed; though if you are a bright bulb, you could pick up on techniques pretty quickly.-Clerics: How to heal & not get aggro; which heal skills to use; knowing how/when to purify; remembering to buff ppl (and actually getting buffs maxed!) etc, etc.-Archers: how much damage you can do without taking aggro; when its ok to aoe, and when aoeing will kill you fast; Same with wizards.-Venos: HOW TO PULL; A lvl 80 veno who cannot pull = ultimate fail; first time I tried pulling as a lvl 19 veno soloing my fb19, I succeeded (mind you, I have had much time to observe other classes while in a group, so I had an understanding of how it worked already).-Blademasters: ... Nothing comes to mind. Knowing your limits as a secondary tank, perhaps?
C & D) -Is leveling from lvl 80 to 90 with oracles wrong? If you got to lvl 80 normally, one would hope you know how to play your class by now. At this point on my barb, I know my tanking pretty well, though I still pick up new tricks now & then. The only information I lack is specific tactics for certain bosses (take TT 2-3 final boss as an example ^.^). However, if you did the oracle 30-90 trick, going from 80-90 on oracles could be pretty bad for any group you sign up with. Again, this is dependent on how smart you are @ figuring out how to play your character, since you will have had much less group experience with it.
Final comment: I think this thread is a great idea. Why is it that people have such a hard time being serious? I mean... seriously. NO, don't answer that question. If you do reply, reply to something I stated about the DEBATE topic.
Cheers,
Brock0 -
Now look what you've done. Given a detailed message with all the right answers where one can't really disagree.
And we were just trying to keep this alive.tatuaje: grinding mobs and zhenning ???
frankieraye:All right, I admit it, it's a bit retro. lol.0 -
I don't like oracles but if people want to use them then it's their money they are spending. The only time I used oracles was when I got 2 from supply stash. What I don't like are n00bz who lvl 40+ lvls with oracles and think that they are better than everyone else. if it was up to me oracles/esos wouldn't even exist in this game. =P0
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Tatuaje - Lost City wrote: »Now look what you've done. Given a detailed message with all the right answers where one can't really disagree.
And we were just trying to keep this alive.
Correction: Prove me wrong! What I have stated, is, 100%, my own opinion. You can think what you want of it. In fact, I encourage you to tell me exactly what you think of what I said, and why. Just, no foul language, and I don't mind one bit.
Edit: See my original post, I added a note @ the top.0 -
Yaxana - Sanctuary wrote: »I don't like oracles but if people want to use them then it's their money they are spending. The only time I used oracles was when I got 2 from supply stash. What I don't like are n00bz who lvl 40+ lvls with oracles and think that they are better than everyone else. if it was up to me oracles/esos wouldn't even exist in this game. =P
Why esos? They still require a bunch of work, just, not as much. It's like 2x bonus exp weekends. Did that suddenly make you shoot up in level like an Oracle can? Not really. They just plain aren't comparable with them.
Esos don't let you skip complete levels by killing a few (comparatively) mobs. They just reduce the grinding time by a bit-- still force you to grind on mobs your level, though.
@BrocktheMace: Basically everything I was gonna say just worded a lot better/making a lot more sense. //endthread. xD So I can't really disagree. O.o Good luck getting someone to disagree with those points. xD <-- there's the feedback you wanted.
Also, glad to see this thread has made someone post for the first time?
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i like oracles except when people abuse it. like when i get one as a quest reward im like alright, all i need is to kill another mob to get another 7%! but when i see somebody like my friend, who has gone from lvl 64 to 85 in a matter of weeks from buying these oracles, its like the rich have an advantage on lvling and you dont have to have any skill or knowledge of the game to be a high lvl! 0
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BrocktheMace - Dreamweaver wrote: »Edit: Since this was mentioned... the below text is my opinion, though I do make my statements as though they are fact. Not about to rework it now. Keep in mind, all statements made are subject to questioning/criticism/complements. Tell me what you think!
(A) Is using oracles completely wrong? No.
(B) Can the use of oracles be abused? Yes.
(C) Is leveling from 30-90 using only oracles always wrong? Perhaps not always.
(D) Is leveling from 80-90 using only oracles wrong? Probably not.
If you want to see my reasoning, read wall of text below.
A) -Is using oracles 'wrong'?. Answer, no it is not. They are a part of the game; if leveling by oracles was not proper, it makes sense that we wouldn't be able to do so. However, one can clearly trade tokens for oracles; the developers must have known people would use them to level quickly, and if they didn't/don't have a problem with it, you cannot call leveling with oracles 'wrong'. -Can the use of oracles be abused? Most certainly. If you are not familiar with a particular class, many many problems can arise once you start trying to find groups for TT/BH/etc. Here are a list of problems I can see arising in general:-dealing with different types of mobs; ranged physical, ranged magic but up close melee, always magic, always melee. How does your class deal with different mob types? [Example: On my barb, magic caster mobs = first attack is alacrity (cancel the magic attack). On physical only mobs, I open with an evasion reducing attack or a stun. On ranged physical attackers, I use certain slowdown attacks in certain combinations.] What do you do if you aggro several mobs at once (each class has different escape tactics), etc, etc.
-underclassed gear: I have seen high level players with ridiculously low level gear. No surprise, then, that in TT 1-2 and 1-3, these players have trouble surviving the aoe bosses.
-no reputation points: This is a severe limitation; by not questing, you miss out on thousands of rep points, which are later crucial to gaining very nice rep gear.
-role of player in squads: Oracling alone cannot teach you squad dynamics. In particular, if your oracled character is your first character to the game, you will be clueless as to how you should behave in a group. Level of cluelessness depends on intelligence here folks; no way around it, some people just aren't the brightest bulbs, if you get my drift. Some specific examples:-Barbs: tanking (duh!). How to hold aggro, how to cancel boss aoe, how to use aoe aggro skills, how to keep squad alive and yourself alive (knowing your own limits). An oracled barb will make a lot more mistakes to start with, garuanteed; though if you are a bright bulb, you could pick up on techniques pretty quickly.-Clerics: How to heal & not get aggro; which heal skills to use; knowing how/when to purify; remembering to buff ppl (and actually getting buffs maxed!) etc, etc.-Archers: how much damage you can do without taking aggro; when its ok to aoe, and when aoeing will kill you fast; Same with wizards.-Venos: HOW TO PULL; A lvl 80 veno who cannot pull = ultimate fail; first time I tried pulling as a lvl 19 veno soloing my fb19, I succeeded (mind you, I have had much time to observe other classes while in a group, so I had an understanding of how it worked already).-Blademasters: ... Nothing comes to mind. Knowing your limits as a secondary tank, perhaps?
C & D) -Is leveling from lvl 80 to 90 with oracles wrong? If you got to lvl 80 normally, one would hope you know how to play your class by now. At this point on my barb, I know my tanking pretty well, though I still pick up new tricks now & then. The only information I lack is specific tactics for certain bosses (take TT 2-3 final boss as an example ^.^). However, if you did the oracle 30-90 trick, going from 80-90 on oracles could be pretty bad for any group you sign up with. Again, this is dependent on how smart you are @ figuring out how to play your character, since you will have had much less group experience with it.
Final comment: I think this thread is a great idea. Why is it that people have such a hard time being serious? I mean... seriously. NO, don't answer that question. If you do reply, reply to something I stated about the DEBATE topic.
Cheers,
Brock
Wow, this is pretty good. If anyone wants, I can move on to the next debate earlier. After reading this, its really hard to put out an argument against it.Sins are Scissors. Psychics are Rocks.
Archers, Venos, Barbs, Wizards, BMs, Mystics, Seekers are Paper.
...and Clerics are Mushrooms.
Paper beats Rock. Scissors beats Paper. Scissors also happens to beat Rock...until Rock gets 50k+ soulforce at which point Rock becomes an unstoppable killing machine that beats Paper... and would beat Scissors but it can't find Scissors, because Scissors are invisible.
So Scissors beat Paper and avoids Rock, and that is called BALANCE. -cheze0 -
Jeez.....and here I was going to post my comments, and Brock totally came in and destroyed my discussion by putting what I was going to put b:cry
Next topic pl0x? b:surrender[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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