Ranting and why venos make me feel awkward. <3 you guys

13

Comments

  • Henchman - Dreamweaver
    Henchman - Dreamweaver Posts: 43 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    The fact of the matter still remains. Even if the veno does more damage, the ONLY thing we can do with them is assist with red bubble and DD. Wwith Barbs or other tanks we can actualy heal and keep them alive. also, in the event that the barb dies in your traditional squad, we can immediatly heal the second tank in the group and keep them alive while another cleric(or us after enough stacks of IH) can revive the main tank. If the venos pet dies all thats left for the boss is squishy lunch meat. even a light armor fox form veno cant take too much of a beating.(Heavy armor hybrids aside, mind you.)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I read that you only bramble the tank.It is one of the things that irks me when bramble is thrown on me.I find it hard to believe that a pet can out do a Barb especially a BM.Don't forget I play Veno to and have herc.I don't throw bramble on others and read that in the general discussion forum.

    You bramble everyone on an AoE boss because it reflects back on the boss. It is kind of pointless to bramble the whole squad because if the tanks do their job none of the squishies should have agro. And a pet, if handled properly, is just as good if not better than a barb or bm. It all depends on the person controlling the pet and their skill with the class. You can have the best pets in the game and read all you want, but it's not going to help you unless you learn it.
  • xxxdsmer
    xxxdsmer Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »
    All you clerics do know, I hope, that you can help your veno heal her pet? If you want, you can keep an eye on her pet's health and if things look dangerous you speed up her channelling with your Red Bubble.

    this is quite true as red bubble increases attack, both physical and magical. add a good lv10 spirits gift AND running RB, and thats QUITE the boost to mag atk, and guess what a good part of pet heal is based off of.... yep. magic attack. (___ +30%, mby higher % of mag atk?)

    so yeap, cleric can help heal a veno pet by doin all they can to boost that veno's mag atk (when its needed ofc)
    i'm pro all classes, and against none in particular..
    but the age old QQ about venos is just that. OLD.
    QQ'd about a nix lately? check out this thread n tell me who's "OP" lol..
    (copy and paste this to address bar):
    pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=102172
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Cholla - Harshlands wrote: »
    Ok, I have to admit, I have been wondering... if they revive their pet and you expel them and stack ironhearts on them, and then they bramble hood and heal their pet after the expel, is that a lost cause? Or can their pet get aggro back from them before they die?

    Don't seal a veno when they're resummoning their pet! b:beatup You make it worse when you do that, in my opinion. If we're sealed we can do absolutely nothing - not revive, not heal, not hood, not anything. I would rather have the Wings of Protection (L79 skill) or a spam of IH than being stuck doing nothing. There are a lot of things that could go wrong if you seal a Veno.

    1. Cut their revive short and **** them over anyway.
    2. Get their pet killed again after sealing them. (I prefer to play with my pets on Defend over manual and only switch to manual if I'm going to do something crazy.)
    3. Prevent them from potting on themselves. (I carry my own damage reducing pots along with a bunch of jiaozi.)

    Yes, the pet can get it back. It takes a little while, but it will reset to the pet again. Please keep in mind that while a veno is summoning or stowing their pet they are completely immobile and quite vulnerable. They can use no skills but they can use HP/MP pots, they cannot use Apothecary pots until afterwards.

    *If we're talking about a boss, it's best to run away and let it reset then go back to it.
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Sevas - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    You bramble everyone on an AoE boss because it reflects back on the boss.
    That might be ok when it comes to the boss but not when you first enter a FB/BH or Dungeon.I would say if it was world boss I will be in the air.When a pet is handled properly it can maybe a Her or Nix but that is about it otherwise this is imba.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Wait...I'm lost.

    Exactly when did World Bosses come in the argument of why Bramble is or isn't good in an instance? Did I miss something? b:sweat
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Wait...I'm lost.

    Exactly when did World Bosses come in the argument of why Bramble is or isn't good in an instance? Did I miss something? b:sweat

    Yes you did. Because when you bramble the barb during a world boss a wiz can use his ultis more effectively because of golden bell from the archer.

    DUH!
    b:dirty
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Yes you did. Because when you bramble the barb during a world boss a wiz can use his ultis more effectively because of golden bell from the archer.

    DUH!

    *ahem* I think she means more of why are we talking about WBs when this argument is over dungeons? So, more TT than WB. A barb doesn't tank all WBs either. Either way, Bramble for AoE bosses in dungeons for the reflect and if you don't want bramble at all in an instance, say so.
  • Ninnuam - Sanctuary
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary Posts: 1,086 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    *tactical facepalm*
    b:dirty
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Sevas - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    *ahem* I think she means more of why are we talking about WBs when this argument is over dungeons? So, more TT than WB. A barb doesn't tank all WBs either. Either way, Bramble for AoE bosses in dungeons for the reflect and if you don't want bramble at all in an instance, say so.
    Ok.When a Veno throws bramble on you before you say no can we restart or do I have to log out to lose bramble.It can't be canceled like our buffs.Bramble as said in Gen Discussion draws aggro which means mobs come to us.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Koltrast - Sanctuary
    Koltrast - Sanctuary Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Ok.When a Veno throws bramble on you before you say no can we restart or do I have to log out to lose bramble.It can't be canceled like our buffs.Bramble as said in Gen Discussion draws aggro which means mobs come to us.

    It doesn't draw aggro, it generates it. It's not going to attract mobs from across the room to come bite you.

    If you are not brambled, and a mob hits you, and you don't hit it back, any hit on it by anyone else will grab the mob off you immediately.

    If you are brambled, and a mob hits you, you reflect back, and it may take 2-3 hits (or more, if the mob's big enough, and depending who's hitting it) for me to get it's attention off you, all the while it's still hitting you and you're reflecting back at it: you're building aggro, whether you hit it or not.

    In a dungeon where there are physical mobs that can kill you in a handful of hits (you wanna go toe to toe with a catacomb dragon?), you can see where me or the tank or a bm being able to grab the mob off you very quickly, in fact as fast as possible, is a good thing, right?

    And sure there's insta-aggro drawing genie and barb and bm skills. And sure you can maybe tank several hits off a lot of mobs. And yes if I crit or hit hard enough, I can still probably get a mob off you in fairly short order. But if you aren't brambled and don't hit back, anyone can grab it, immediately, without putting a skill or genie skill on cooldown. In the chaos of a dungeon mess where a bunch of mobs got on the whole party, that makes a big difference. That said, it's only temporary, asking the veno politely to not bramble you, or wait until you get to the phys aoe boss to do it again, or whatever, is better than just logging.
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Koltrast - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It doesn't draw aggro, it generates it. It's not going to attract mobs from across the room to come bite you.

    I have read that it draws in Gen. Discussion and no one said that it didn't.I wish I could find that thread but it was a few months back.Cleric unlike Venos do have slower walking speed like a Wiz.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Ok.When a Veno throws bramble on you before you say no can we restart or do I have to log out to lose bramble.It can't be canceled like our buffs.Bramble as said in Gen Discussion draws aggro which means mobs come to us.

    Ah, so nubby. Duel the veno and tell them to purge you and not to bramble. Purge will get rid of everything, so you will have to rebuff. You are being illogical. If you are standing across the room from Wurlord in TT and I put bramble on you (demon bramble at that), Wurlord is not going to look at you and go, "b:dirty Juicy Cleric! They have bramble! *chomp*" No, no, no. You are more likely to pull agro with a heal than bramble is. By the way nubcake, what level is this veno you supposedly have?
  • Airwick - Heavens Tear
    Airwick - Heavens Tear Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    alot of u just need to stfu 70% of u dont no wut ur talking about
    so rly think befor u post dumb **** like u guys do tyvm
  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Sevas - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Ah, so nubby. Duel the veno and tell them to purge you and not to bramble. Purge will get rid of everything, so you will have to rebuff. You are being illogical. If you are standing across the room from Wurlord in TT and I put bramble on you (demon bramble at that), Wurlord is not going to look at you and go, "b:dirty Juicy Cleric! They have bramble! *chomp*" No, no, no. You are more likely to pull agro with a heal than bramble is. By the way nubcake, what level is this veno you supposedly have?

    I said I am going with what was said in gen. discussion don not use bramble except the one tanking.I am noob hey how many healing classes have you played?Oh I did try with my Veno and it did reflect some hits but not as much as hercs and my bramble is lvl 6.I am not going to tell you untill I see a pic of your cleric.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver
    XxLady_XelxX - Dreamweaver Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Ninnuam - Sanctuary wrote: »
    *tactical facepalm*

    ...

    ...

    ...Pass some of that over here please.
  • Mystiwarrior - Sanctuary
    Mystiwarrior - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Interesting I can't edit my own post as I changed avatars.Here is the thread I read about in General discussion and it is posted by a Veno a lvl 90+ at that.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=385181&highlight=don%27t+bramble+clerics

    This is what I am talking about.
  • Koltrast - Sanctuary
    Koltrast - Sanctuary Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Mystiwarrior - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Interesting I can't edit my own post as I changed avatars.Here is the thread I read about in General discussion and it is posted by a Veno a lvl 90+ at that.

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=385181&highlight=don%27t+bramble+clerics

    This is what I am talking about.

    Where Reikara says precisely what we said: Reflecting damage draws aggro from a mob.

    If the mob didn't hit you yet, there is no damage to reflect therefore it only affects mobs that are already aggro'ed on you.

    It doesn't in any way say there that it's going to generate aggro on a non aggressive mob, or make a non aggressive mob run across the room and attack you.
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I said I am going with what was said in gen. discussion don not use bramble except the one tanking.I am noob hey how many healing classes have you played?Oh I did try with my Veno and it did reflect some hits but not as much as hercs and my bramble is lvl 6.I am not going to tell you untill I see a pic of your cleric.

    I have a L31 and L68 Cleric. I expect to hit Demon Culti on my cleric in a few months. I have posted pictures of my cleric. You are still a nubcake and don't know what you're talking about.

    Herc's reflect is "higher" because it's based on the original damage taken, not the reduced damage from the buffs.
    Koltrast - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Where Reikara says precisely what we said: Reflecting damage draws aggro from a mob.

    If the mob didn't hit you yet, there is no damage to reflect therefore it only affects mobs that are already aggro'ed on you.

    It doesn't in any way say there that it's going to generate aggro on a non aggressive mob, or make a non aggressive mob run across the room and attack you.

    I think we can keep saying this until we're blue in the face and this nub is going to keep spewing (b:spit) this **** all over forums and in game.

    1. Bramble will not in any way, shape, or form paint a target on you that magically attracts a mob to you.

    2. Bramble will generate "agro" if the mob hits you, however it will accumulate very slowly as the damage reflected is only a fraction of what the mob(s) hit you for. Moreover, the first hit from a member of your squad will draw the agro back to them.

    3. If you're going to keep QQing about Bramble, at least know your facts about it.
  • Stellinna - Heavens Tear
    Stellinna - Heavens Tear Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    I agree i was having a level 91 herc veno tank my BH just today and i tried to heal her herc! either i still have my veno instinct from when i played a veno or i feel its my job to keep any tank alive xD b:laugh
  • Mystiwarrior - Sanctuary
    Mystiwarrior - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Sevas - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I have a L31 and L68 Cleric. I expect to hit Demon Culti on my cleric in a few months. I have posted pictures of my cleric. You are still a nubcake and don't know what you're talking about.

    Herc's reflect is "higher" because it's based on the original damage taken, not the reduced damage from the buffs.



    I think we can keep saying this until we're blue in the face and this nub is going to keep spewing (b:spit) this **** all over forums and in game.

    1. Bramble will not in any way, shape, or form paint a target on you that magically attracts a mob to you.

    2. Bramble will generate "agro" if the mob hits you, however it will accumulate very slowly as the damage reflected is only a fraction of what the mob(s) hit you for. Moreover, the first hit from a member of your squad will draw the agro back to them.

    3. If you're going to keep QQing about Bramble, at least know your facts about it.

    You can take this up with Reikara as stated in no. 10 and your 2 lvls ahead of me.I am playing this causally after lvling about 10 chars in another rpg to 20 maxed .What other char do you have over 30?Where is your SS?
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    No, I will not take it up with her and bother her over it. I am L96. I should know what I'm talking about. I hang out more with Clerics and BMs than I do with Venos.

    1. I play a veno, therefore, I know what I'm talking about.

    2. I know a lot about Clerics and their abilities.

    3. I know a decent bit about BMs and their abilities.

    And I will not post my screenies, if you can't find them, too bad. You are nubcake. You obviously don't know about venos since you keep regurgitating all this garbage. On top of that, you think you know so much about clerics, which I heavily doubt. We have tried to explain to you, but you will not believe us. This leads me to believe that you are an idiot because you have no backing and offer none, where we have several times.
  • Mystiwarrior - Sanctuary
    Mystiwarrior - Sanctuary Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    This game is super easy when it comes to the classes as compared to the other one I play.My main there is a healing class and it is not just knowing the skills it is knowing the role when to do this when not to.Protection plays bigger role than spamming heals does all that does is make red bard go up.I know how much to cast IH for as it is on op skill compared to my elite word of healing.

    It is archers that kill me off as when they're shooting arrows and me with bramble on and reflect so they target me.I know a lot of clerics to and there are 3 sage clerics in my faction and I do know a demon cleric and most of my friends list is full of clerics.My Veno is in a mostly Veno faction 60% of Venos one of the reason my cleric left it.

    When I have bramble on I am more apt to die then I have to go back to town lose xp and do it over again.When the boss comes running at them who do they come running at yeah me.Then I die and lose xp again and it has happened more than once with Venos.

    So stop with nub cake business.
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Mystiwarrior - Sanctuary wrote: »
    This game is super easy when it comes to the classes as compared to the other one I play.My main there is a healing class and it is not just knowing the skills it is knowing the role when to do this when not to.Protection plays bigger role than spamming heals does all that does is make red bard go up.I know how much to cast IH for as it is on op skill compared to my elite word of healing.

    It is archers that kill me off as when they're shooting arrows and me with bramble on and reflect so they target me.I know a lot of clerics to and there are 3 sage clerics in my faction and I do know a demon cleric and most of my friends list is full of clerics.My Veno is in a mostly Veno faction 60% of Venos one of the reason my cleric left it.

    When I have bramble on I am more apt to die then I have to go back to town lose xp and do it over again.When the boss comes running at them who do they come running at yeah me.Then I die and lose xp again and it has happened more than once with Venos.

    So stop with nub cake business.

    b:chuckle You think this garbage is support?

    I'm glad you realize this. But you're a still a nub on top of failing.b:bye

    Bramble doesn't reflect the ranged attacks from BMs/Archers. Obviously you're doing something wrong. I know too many Sage Clerics to count and a handful of Demon Clerics. I could care less who is on your Friend's List.

    You are more likely to pull agro with a badly timed heal or being so dumb as to attack a mob that no tank is holding. Those are more likely to be the causes of your death. The biggest cause is normally the death of the tank, even then that's a combination of your fault and the tank's. Stop puking up such BS. If some idiot is going to fight for agro without warning the squad, then let them die.
  • Taranta - Dreamweaver
    Taranta - Dreamweaver Posts: 387 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Ok...on the original topic here:

    Whenever I'm in a squad with a cleric, they seem to love me. I send out the herc slightly after the tank has caught aggro (most clerics don't want to duo...I wonder why?) and hover around them, keeping the pet alive and watching the hp of the squad and mobs. I try to catch anything that the cleric manages to aggro, hopefully giving them a chance at survival. Everyone else has run ahead, using all the speed buffs and the like, and there's the cleric and I, just going at our own pace, and having a blast. Anything that was missed by the original rush I take out, and the cleric gets to do more than just be a heal-bot. Pisses the tank off to no end though, because they can't just charge in blindly to every single mob.
    I shall dominate the Dreamweaver server through the use of Baked goods...and only baked goods.^^[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Venomancers are Female. Barbarians are male. It will forever be this way. So suck it up and deal with it already.
  • ewingoil
    ewingoil Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    Sevas - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    b:chuckle You think this garbage is support?

    I'm glad you realize this. But you're a still a nub on top of failing.b:bye
    I am not nub and I am not failing


    You are more likely to pull agro with a badly timed heal or being so dumb as to attack a mob that no tank is holding. Those are more likely to be the causes of your death. The biggest cause is normally the death of the tank, even then that's a combination of your fault and the tank's. Stop puking up such BS. If some idiot is going to fight for agro without warning the squad, then let them die.
    That is not what I said it is the Veno that is causing me to die as I keep the barb alive.
  • Sevas - Heavens Tear
    Sevas - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,132 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    You're failing miserably and many of my L90+ friends agree with me, some of them being clerics.

    Still the only way you get agro is from a badly timed heal or attacking something with no tank. If you tried to heal the Veno and the Veno dies because they bit off more than they could chew, you're next in line to be bit in the butt.
  • ewingoil
    ewingoil Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    I am not as I play a more competive game then you do and know what to look out for.

    I tell you what you can believe all you want but I say bramble is bad on other castors and this included Wizards and this is my opinon.You have right to your own good thing we are on different servers.
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    No offense but... attempting to argue with Mysti is like trying to talk to a brick wall.



    To anyone who comes into this topic later on looking for information: bramble is not going to get you killed. Unless you do something that makes a monster use a close range physical attack on you so that bramble can reflect some damage to begin with (aka YOU made a mistake to begin with and mistimed a heal before tank aggro'd everything or started to DD on something that wasn't aggro'd, or the tank died and boss is chasing you because the DDs sucked too much to be second in line for the boss' aggro or are currently dead) then bramble isn't going to do anything or cause monsters to suddenly stop what they're doing and chase you down. Now if you ARE getting hit in a way for bramble to reflect damage, that makes it more difficult to pull aggro off you the longer it goes on. In most cases, this won't mean much since 1 or 2 attacks from the local DDs is normally enough, but in some situations it can be deadly since you may not have the luxury of waiting for an extra hit before the squad gets wiped out.

    Oh and bramble's reflect is based purely on the original damage done to you. If you get buffed up, it's fully possible for bramble (especially demon bramble) to wind up reflecting more damage than you're actually taking (which is part of why hercs can hold aggro so well in TT)
  • ewingoil
    ewingoil Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2009
    1. Don't cast bramble on everyone. Clerics especially will hate you for it.
    Bramble may reflect melee damage, but it should only ever be cast on the tanks like the barbarians and blademasters. Reflecting damage will draw aggro from a mob, thus making the tank's job harder if he's running after archers, venos or his own healer who's being attacked.
    10. Make sure the cleric never has bramble.
    This makes no sence to you I guess hmm.It is where I get it from.

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