Archers fail?

2

Comments

  • Waterboy - Lost City
    Waterboy - Lost City Posts: 405 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    MrConce - Harshlands wrote: »
    He is also a heavy cash shopper. Dont roll archer, EVER, if u dont plan on spending big bucks. You'll be dissapointed if u just do with regular gear for pvp. I mean, Im barely starting to enjoy my archer at 90, and its only because i just dropped 25 mil on demon quickshot. Im planning on getting jun8 (rank8) in a near future, so that should let u know that if u dont have money, they arent worth it. Stay veno and get a nix. Still have to cashop to get the nix, but its way cheaper.

    so ur the d-bag that bought the demon quickshot...b:cryb:cryb:cry
  • truekossy
    truekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »
    *snip*
    Thank you.



    On a side note,
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    The reality that all classes have skills as well as the fact everyone with half a brain uses said skills renders his argument void.
    *her

    Also, archers do their highest DPS with normal attacks. So unless our tank sucks, we feel like **** around, or we're in some situation where we need to mind our aggro (IE: tank at a lower level or such) the main type of attacks archers will use will be normal attacks. In PvP, attack rate isn't too huge of a factor since skill channeling/cooldown are unaffected by it. However, skill spam has nothing to do with my original point, so using that as an example is a bit... out there.
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    However his statistical data only takes into account regular attacking rate. As such it ignores all spells and buffs.
    Just figured I'd point out that this argument is flawed. If you have the slowest BASE attack speed when unbuffed and then everyone (including other classes) buff up, you'll STILL have the slowest speed. The only way that would change is if you had gear they don't (aka -interval) or a self-buff with a large enough speed boost than the any buff they'd use to make up for their inherently faster speed.
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    No matter how you analyze it, short of a wizard using somehow either godlike gear or magically having permanent/near permanent essential sutra which is not exactly spammable what with the 30 second cool down and spark requirement, Archers attack faster.
    And at this point, it became obvious you completely missed what I was talking about as you're clearly talking about channeling speed here. Not attack speed.
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    What other class can rip out 16% of a bosses life in one hit? =O
    I'd like to introduce you to a venomancer with sage soul degeneration. Takes out 20% of the opponent's max HP in one shot.
  • KedgeSniper - Lost City
    KedgeSniper - Lost City Posts: 733 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Accelerated - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Thank you for that enlightenment. Of course I'm saying this from a biased point of view. Thanks, I will roll a blademaster, holy ****! I am a blademaster :O. And please... Under the same or similar type of gears, an Axe blademaster can attack faster as well. Give or take, maybe getting lucky in crafting a pair of axes with -.1/-.05 interval to match up with the archer ranking bonus stats. Slingshots, which are, without a doubt the fastest archer weapon is considered 'slow' to the slowest weapon that blademasters can use, axe. Also, oh boo hoo. An archer can has Demon Quickshot. Well, Demon blademasters can get similar Quicken buff through Demon Cyclone Heel/ Demon Highland Cleave. A bit nerfed compared to Demon Quickshot; but still a Quicken buff.

    If anyone got the impression that I also think archers fail, I didn't mean it as that. They are just the slowest class in-game.

    Woooooooooow
    The master on pve is giving pvp players a lesson. xD

    U forgot to add that Bms miss alot!
    usualy if I get call a target n I have 1 bm on me, I just anti-stun myself n get the target.
    Archers spike damage is higher than a bm.
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  • Accelerated - Sanctuary
    Accelerated - Sanctuary Posts: 1,048 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    KedgeSniper - Lost City wrote: »
    Woooooooooow
    The master on pve is giving pvp players a lesson. xD

    U forgot to add that Bms miss alot!
    usualy if I get call a target n I have 1 bm on me, I just anti-stun myself n get the target.
    Archers spike damage is higher than a bm.

    Oh wow, I can PvP on a PvE server! I must be a complete idiot in PvP, huh? Congratulations, you proved absolutely nothing.

    Blademasters only miss a lot if they are:
    1.) Pure Vit build.
    2.) Pure Str build.
    3.) Pure Mag build.
    4.) Is not wearing additional accuracy ornaments/equipments such as LingYun(Misty), Sign of Frost: Chaos, Ring of Mastadon's Strength(A.K.A. TT90 rings), or other varies of weapons with additional +10% accuracy.
    5.) Is purely only using one weapon path, excluding fists.

    I've missed maybe 1 out of 20 hits on archers as a multi-path blademaster without a LingYun ring.

    Ever seen how much a fist blademaster with just 2.83/s attack interval can do? I knocked a 27k HP barb under just seconds with just 2.5/s intervals. Imagine the damage output with a 5/s interval. That's so fast that fist blademasters could probably beat the 10 seconds cooldown on a barb's charm. Archers have high spike damage, yes. But they are the slowest class in the game.
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  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    truekossy

    your still ignoring spells...

    Wizards don't smack things with their weapon and neither do archers attack only with normal attacks.

    Also sowwy about calling you a "him" it's rather confoosing when you post as an anonymous.



    Also lol ya barbs do miss alot without their misty rings. (>.<)'
    still they tank a boatload of life so they have plenty of chances.
    xD
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  • Koltrast - Sanctuary
    Koltrast - Sanctuary Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    truekossy

    Wizards don't smack things with their weapon and neither do archers attack only with normal attacks.

    That's the thing everyone is trying to get through to you Hamsta. We archers do, the vast majority of the time, attack with normal attacks.
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    ...

    Wizards don't smack things with their weapon and neither do archers attack only with normal attacks.

    ...

    For the second time, yes we do.

    Wizards might not, but we definitely do. You're the one who brought up the attack speed of magical weapons (1.25/sec) being slower than Archers. We simply stated that we archers have the slowest attack rate because ranged weapons have the slowest firing rate. That is true no matter how godly our gear is.

    A Wizard could get godly gear and beat our normal attack speed with massive -channel. Unfortunately, archers are limited with the amount of gear that allows the stat -interval. So no matter how you view it, Wizards (or any other class) will still be faster than us.
  • Tactica - Lost City
    Tactica - Lost City Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Olba - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Ahem, Armor of Assassin gives you -0.05, not -0.5.

    Also, you could just get the TT99 bracers, which add -0.1 and having another piece from the same set adds another -0.05, for a total of .91/sec.

    And yes, for DPS, most Archer skills suck, other than some of the Demon skills, such as Quickshot.

    Typo'. And Demon Quickshot adds 30%, and off memory, it's 0.87, not 0.91. You'd get higher using set effect from General's or Ashura, at 90/99, yes. That's another -0.05*, which would then bump you up to around 0.91. *

    *Edit: Too many Yes'.
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  • Tactica - Lost City
    Tactica - Lost City Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    For the records, in terms of absolute highest attack rate, you'd probably want a high leveled BM.

    Why? Aside from the large portion of -interval gear that you can use (both HA and LA, if you roll enough dex into it), you gain the added benefit of being able to put a unique proc to best use. I.e. "Berserk", no, not "Berserker" where you deal 2x damage, "Berserk", where your attack rate and attack doubles.

    Combine that with -interval gear, and you'll have trouble tracking the hits, and if your using a damage log, it'll get spammed.

    Throwing out a few figures, -0.1 interval bracers, -0.05 set effect from HH90/99, -0.05 interval cape, and I think? *Edit: Rank melee chest does not add -interval.

    Gets around 1.69 ish, which bumps you up to around... Oh, 3.38*? With the fist "Cube", when it procs'.

    Not including skills, etc. Wind adds 10%, Relentless used to add like, 2x%? May still be possible. You get the gist.

    *Purely a guess.
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  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    truekossy wrote: »
    A patkia (slowest magical weapon) has an attack rate of 1/sec
    A slingshot (fastest archer weapon) has an attack rate of 0.71/sec

    As I said, based purely on base speed, archers have the slowest attacks in the game.

    -Interval, as already stated, helps to remedy this.


    And it was relevant to Accelerated and Tactica's discussion. ;P

    LOL. I can just see it now. A wiz distance shink up to me and start whacking me with his mag weap for 50 dmg per second.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

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  • MagicHamsta - Lost City
    MagicHamsta - Lost City Posts: 10,466 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »
    For the second time, yes we do.

    Wizards might not, but we definitely do. You're the one who brought up the attack speed of magical weapons (1.25/sec) being slower than Archers. We simply stated that we archers have the slowest attack rate because ranged weapons have the slowest firing rate. That is true no matter how godly our gear is.

    A Wizard could get godly gear and beat our normal attack speed with massive -channel. Unfortunately, archers are limited with the amount of gear that allows the stat -interval. So no matter how you view it, Wizards (or any other class) will still be faster than us.

    *note how me said "only normal attacks" every archer i've fought against always starts off with skills such as that darn stun arrow DX. and continue using skills until I die or he/she dies whichever comes first.

    also LOL mayhaps I should become a fist wizard!
    MUHAHAHA
    (>.<)'
    I'll have to reroll heavy and get some fists.
    xD
    hmm maybe thats what the developers wanted wizards to do when they gave us distance shrink and frostblade.
    (^.^)'

    I'll beat Kiyoshi because he'll be too stunned laughing too hard to fight back.
    lol!!!
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  • ColdWings - Heavens Tear
    ColdWings - Heavens Tear Posts: 14 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    i've A PureDex Archer . And he's really good
    Archer's the best.
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  • XxX_Venm_XxX - Lost City
    XxX_Venm_XxX - Lost City Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Sevas - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    My second favorite class to have in a squad with me. When a barb fails a catch and there is no BM or the BM misses too, it's usually the archer that saves my **** next with their stun skill. I'm less squishy than other venos, but I still like it when I don't have to take a hit. Archers are near if not at the top of the list for highest DPS in game.

    archers FTW b:victory

    i save squadmates all the time be they BMs, Venos, Wiz, Cleric, or Barb; a good archer is very versatile and great for PvP
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
    *note how me said "only normal attacks" every archer i've fought against always starts off with skills such as that darn stun arrow DX. and continue using skills until I die or he/she dies whichever comes first.

    ...

    I'm going to estimate that at least 90% of all archer shots made in a typical archer career are normal shots.

    I think after a stun, an archer will normal shoot you until you're dead at your level. Unless of course you're LA.

    While yes, Wizards don't "smack" things with their magical weapon, it's a fact that archers actually auto attack. Why? BECAUSE WE CAN. (and our high dps comes typically from those shots)

    Reiterating what truekossy and Accelerated said a few pages back, Archers are the slowest class in terms of base attacks per second. You not agreeing to that fact is just denial or ignorance of the Archer class on your part.
  • DarkSniper - Lost City
    DarkSniper - Lost City Posts: 1,830 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Most mages I fight is stunning arrow followed by take aim followed by normal shots.
    The only way to win is to quit. b:bye
  • Legerity - Sanctuary
    Legerity - Sanctuary Posts: 1,072 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    DarkSniper - Lost City wrote: »
    Most mages I fight is stunning arrow followed by take aim followed by normal shots.

    My connection may be not as clean as yours so a lv10 take aim will not be able to fire in time when the stun wears off.

    I'm not sure about you, but if I was a wizard and I met an archer trying to PK me in the mid levels (60-80s) I'd probably shrink away after the stun wears off asap which means your take aim won't fire.

    Not saying it won't work but eh, I'd rather shoot 2 or 3 times normally than fire a take aim. Based purely on numbers, you do more because you double/triple your chances of a crit. But then a take aim crit can 1 shot in certain situations. Gets to a point where there's too many ifs.
  • DarkSniper - Lost City
    DarkSniper - Lost City Posts: 1,830 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Fully charged take aim is great for charm passing, getting the other person to close to 50% hp and then taking the rest of the HP with one shot.

    Stunning arrow is 3 seconds start charging take aim immediately afterwards the mage is looking at around 0.4 seconds after the stun wears of to respond.


    But yea connection is everything if my connection isn't doing good I'll use a quick take aim (hold down the button for it) and follow with normal shots
    The only way to win is to quit. b:bye
  • Progrinder - Dreamweaver
    Progrinder - Dreamweaver Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    take aim, won't cancel if it's started so wiz can shrink he'll still be shootedb:surrender
  • RezzErection - Harshlands
    RezzErection - Harshlands Posts: 335 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    wondering if wiz is the only class in PWb:bye

    KILL MY PRO 99 BARBb:angry


    EDIT: OP fails :( you cant steriotype a class. archers is good dammage medicore/bad defence. meaning it can easily kill but also easily get killed
  • Elviron - Dreamweaver
    Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    No matter which MMO u take archers have always been like this.

    Good Damage and Medium/Bad defense and usually squished, thrown around, mauled, etc, etc by other classes if they get near or wizards in general.

    Archers have always needed to ensure targets dont get near them. So I guess its more of preference here more than anything on what one wants to do.

    The class as such doesnt really fail and it comes down to how much you can afford on equips/pots/charms/etc which is always the case in PVP.

    Endgame shouldnt really be an issue here since thats when most of the people stop playing the char since theres nothing left to do, unless you wanna go and kill noobs day after day. This applies to all classes. Its the journey there that really matters and I should say that archers are an enjoyable class.
  • Cbastor - Lost City
    Cbastor - Lost City Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Accelerated - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The Ranking board proves nothing based on the skill of the players. That person may have achieved large portion of kills by pk'ing level 30's, or people that don't stand a chance in the first place.

    Diego is prob:angry
  • Cbastor - Lost City
    Cbastor - Lost City Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Legerity - Sanctuary wrote: »
    My connection may be not as clean as yours so a lv10 take aim will not be able to fire in time when the stun wears off.

    I'm not sure about you, but if I was a wizard and I met an archer trying to PK me in the mid levels (60-80s) I'd probably shrink away after the stun wears off asap which means your take aim won't fire.

    Not saying it won't work but eh, I'd rather shoot 2 or 3 times normally than fire a take aim. Based purely on numbers, you do more because you double/triple your chances of a crit. But then a take aim crit can 1 shot in certain situations. Gets to a point where there's too many ifs.

    on my EA , i stun and use take aim .its usually as fast or faster then a normal shot cuz i double click it which im not sure if it does full damage but oh well.if i sneak on someone with my EA i use deadly shot, stun and normal shots.alot different though if i fight LA or HA players
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Cbastor - Lost City wrote: »
    on my EA , i stun and use take aim .its usually as fast or faster then a normal shot cuz i double click it which im not sure if it does full damage but oh well.if i sneak on someone with my EA i use deadly shot, stun and normal shots.alot different though if i fight LA or HA players

    it doesn't do full damage, take aim shot out that way is just an uncharged take aim. good for building chi, i do that when i fight on an empty bar b:chuckle
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  • Cbastor - Lost City
    Cbastor - Lost City Posts: 385 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    thanks for clerifying that
  • Neelkant - Heavens Tear
    Neelkant - Heavens Tear Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    personally i think that all the people who say archers fail have failed with archers or have not player them too long (probably because we archers die quite a lot at low levels and we its hard for us 2 solo) but i think that when you play more with the archer u see that its very fun. And every class had its weakness so archers arent the only one who fail.

    And i totally agree that archers are expensive but u have to pay the price if u want to be a good archer.
  • Accelerated - Sanctuary
    Accelerated - Sanctuary Posts: 1,048 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Neelkant - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    personally i think that all the people who say archers fail have failed with archers or have not player them too long (probably because we archers die quite a lot at low levels and we its hard for us 2 solo) but i think that when you play more with the archer u see that its very fun. And every class had its weakness so archers arent the only one who fail.

    And i totally agree that archers are expensive but u have to pay the price if u want to be a good archer.

    Most archers that say they 'fail' are in their 80's through 90's or higher..?
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  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Neelkant - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    And i totally agree that archers are expensive but u have to pay the price if u want to be a good archer.

    Expensive...? In your 50s?

    Let me guess:
    - you buy the most expensive arrows
    - you buy potions
    - you spam skills instead of using normal shots as much as possible.
  • Neelkant - Heavens Tear
    Neelkant - Heavens Tear Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Expensive...? In your 50s?

    Let me guess:
    - you buy the most expensive arrows
    - you buy potions
    - you spam skills instead of using normal shots as much as possible.

    infact....i buy the cheapest arrows
    i do but pots but just health ones
    and i span skills on some mobs not all

    but i was just saying in general
  • Elenacostel - Heavens Tear
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,822 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Archer is a very cheap class to play, not expensive.

    You should never have to buy potions. What you pick up from grinding should be sufficient.
  • MrConce - Harshlands
    MrConce - Harshlands Posts: 248 Arc User
    edited October 2009
    Elenacostel - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Archer is a very cheap class to play, not expensive.

    You should never have to buy potions. What you pick up from grinding should be sufficient.

    You dont pvp. You dont know what you are talking bout. I know you dont pvp. TW maybe, but pvp u dont.

    PVP speaking, Archers are most expensive class to enjoy at endgame.

    PS. Dont bother replying Elena. I was in HT at same time when you started. Got my cleric to 90, and now I got this archer to 90. I do have a life. My point is, you still 89, why would anyone listen to you for pvp and or archer cost advice?
    "Always Outnumbered,Never Outgunned." + "For You My Lover,Pa Que Te Enamores" ~ Co7Vc3 ♥ El Romance Letal ♥ ~ Director of CareBears ~ Harshlands. Guess who's back? Bought a sexy **** powerful gaming laptop. Ready to be exploited. On my way to tech school/dorm. Be back soon. =)

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