Monsters: What Gives?
Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear
Posts: 406 Arc User
I would probably normally put this in Suggestions but because this is not going to initiate a change of any kind there is really no point. I post this more to provoke thought among the players, GM's, and maybe Devs if they ever get to read it.
My ponderance is why do monsters always have to work on such a DRASTICALLY different scale than Players? What I mean is why do they ALWAYS get to have IMMENSELY larger HP/MP than we do? They never run out of MP and they have Millions of HP while we struggle to get into the 10K range. Instead of giving the monsters a wider variety of skills, some good AI, and make them fewer in number but more savvy and give much greater rewards for killing them we are always stuck with the same dumb as rocks beasts who just over power us to no end.
Would it not be more fun to fight a well organized hard to defeat enemy than just a very numerous enemy that does not know the word "strategy"? Would it not be nice to be able to KILL most monsters in the same time frame as most Players but have them be more like Players in their deadliness and trickery? I will grant that Bosses can be a bit abnormal. Some of them are HUGE and should have some massive stats but even THEY should not act as if they are immune to your pathetic efforts. It is NOT very exciting killing LITERALLY the SAME monster for hours on end.
Another point is why the heck is there no support from NPC's? I have heard them talk about their armies and whatnot but have you ever seen them? From what I see the Wraiths should easily just storm the major cities with their apparently infinite hordes and kill everyone and be done with it. Especially with how powerful the Bosses are there is NO ONE in Arch who could stand up to that sort of invasion. The guards will even gladly stand there and watch YOU get killed by the Wraiths rather than walk over and do something about it. (Great guards right?)
To make matters worse there is Yan the Traitor...Give me a BREAK...He is just some young human who probably should be of the Blade Master class and yet...OMG...He has 100 times the HP of a Barbarian...Wow...If Humans can be that tough then what the heck do they need US for? They should be able to handle anything. With that kind of HP no BM would ever need a Cleric, Diamond Sutra, Pots, or Charms. Are you going to tell me the Wraiths gave him that much extra power? If so then I want in on it! Apparently they are WAY better at buffing than anyone on the good side is. Beast King's Inspiration must be the butt of a lot of Wraith jokes when they have the "UNLIMITED HIT POINTS!" buff instead.
Ontop of all that it would make Chi destroying skills and mana eating skills MEAN something if Monsters Had to build up Chi for various attacks and had a much more finite amount of MP to work with like a player...Right now those skills = Worthless vs. Monsters which really does not make much sense.
Anyway, as I stated I am extremely doubtful that my thoughts will amount to anything but I felt someone ought to say it at least once.
My ponderance is why do monsters always have to work on such a DRASTICALLY different scale than Players? What I mean is why do they ALWAYS get to have IMMENSELY larger HP/MP than we do? They never run out of MP and they have Millions of HP while we struggle to get into the 10K range. Instead of giving the monsters a wider variety of skills, some good AI, and make them fewer in number but more savvy and give much greater rewards for killing them we are always stuck with the same dumb as rocks beasts who just over power us to no end.
Would it not be more fun to fight a well organized hard to defeat enemy than just a very numerous enemy that does not know the word "strategy"? Would it not be nice to be able to KILL most monsters in the same time frame as most Players but have them be more like Players in their deadliness and trickery? I will grant that Bosses can be a bit abnormal. Some of them are HUGE and should have some massive stats but even THEY should not act as if they are immune to your pathetic efforts. It is NOT very exciting killing LITERALLY the SAME monster for hours on end.
Another point is why the heck is there no support from NPC's? I have heard them talk about their armies and whatnot but have you ever seen them? From what I see the Wraiths should easily just storm the major cities with their apparently infinite hordes and kill everyone and be done with it. Especially with how powerful the Bosses are there is NO ONE in Arch who could stand up to that sort of invasion. The guards will even gladly stand there and watch YOU get killed by the Wraiths rather than walk over and do something about it. (Great guards right?)
To make matters worse there is Yan the Traitor...Give me a BREAK...He is just some young human who probably should be of the Blade Master class and yet...OMG...He has 100 times the HP of a Barbarian...Wow...If Humans can be that tough then what the heck do they need US for? They should be able to handle anything. With that kind of HP no BM would ever need a Cleric, Diamond Sutra, Pots, or Charms. Are you going to tell me the Wraiths gave him that much extra power? If so then I want in on it! Apparently they are WAY better at buffing than anyone on the good side is. Beast King's Inspiration must be the butt of a lot of Wraith jokes when they have the "UNLIMITED HIT POINTS!" buff instead.
Ontop of all that it would make Chi destroying skills and mana eating skills MEAN something if Monsters Had to build up Chi for various attacks and had a much more finite amount of MP to work with like a player...Right now those skills = Worthless vs. Monsters which really does not make much sense.
Anyway, as I stated I am extremely doubtful that my thoughts will amount to anything but I felt someone ought to say it at least once.
Post edited by Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear on
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Comments
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By the looks of your tirade, you sound like you've never done an endgame inistance. There are many endgame bosses that require much timing, strategy, and cooperation to overcome, IE Belial in HH2-3, (which I think is.. Ancient Evil: Lethal Vengeance here if PW database is right), which requires much team work to trump, and afterwards yields magnificent rewards. This sounds much like an inexperienced player complaining about the norm in Asian MMOs whereas 'grinding' is a regular norm. If you dont like the way this MMO works, you wont like many MMOs, otherwise, please refrain from making complaints about a common thing many people really dont mind.-Former 100 EP on Delphi, coming to try PWI
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Some interesting points, although they seem more directed at the MMO genre itself rather than Perfect World.
As for a possible explanation as to Yan's strength, maybe he was corrupted by the Wraith?0 -
Because this is a pretty generic MMORPG with good graphics. 99% of mmorpgs are like this. Click the mob, hit f1-10 to cast a spell, channeling, do damage. I guess this really isnt your style.
Also, because that would mean a lot of reworking/coding/work in general. Which is a big nono.I was early taught to work as well as play,
My life has been one long, happy holiday;
Full of work and full of play-
I dropped the worry on the way-
And God was good to me everyday.0 -
The only way to win is to quit. b:bye0
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Your too nice.LloydAsplund - Sanctuary wrote: »Because this is a pretty generic MMORPG with good graphics. 99% of mmorpgs are like this. Click the mob, hit f1-10 to cast a spell, channeling, do damage. I guess this really isnt your style.
Also, because that would mean a lot of reworking/coding/work in general. Which is a big nono.
99% of the whole freakin games out there are like this. Waayyyyyyy back to even 2D Mario and even still in non online single player RPGs
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well it would be really nice if the monsters could "think" more like players and we would have tougher but funner time killing them,but then again that would mean serious coding programming etc.but hey thats what pvp is for b:laugh
And asdhajsdh we dont know wether or not he has or has not done endgame instances,but he did say he wasnt "complaining",he was just sharing his thaughts0 -
Just because a lot of MMO's are LIKE this does not mean they HAVE TO BE. That is one really tired argument that never makes sense. If everyone went around saying "This is the way things are so we better not make any improvements" we would not be having this discussion right now.
Why bother inventing Farming? Everyone was hunting just fine thanks. Who needs the Printing Press? We can copy everything by hand the way every one else does. That stupid invention will just make books cheaper and make it easier for everyone to get an education. What nonsense is that?
Also, news flash, this is not the way EVERY MMO or even RPG works which is the part that the Devs would be most concerned about because it may well turn out that it is also not preferred. To name a great non-MMO RPG that handles all this MUCH better let us take Elder Scrolls. There the monsters can be defeated with proper tactics more easily than brute force, are not just overwhelmingly stronger but have particular methods of attacking and defending which make them dangerous but can be subverted by the smart player, and the soldiers & guards will actually HELP YOU if you are in their good graces and doing their will.
As to the Late Game bosses...So? That just means that 10% or so of the game has interesting monsters whereas 90% is a dull grind fest where the odds are stacked against you but you require no brain power to deal with. Also, even those bosses via their stats largely survive on massive stat advantages vs. you rather than their methods of attack. Trust me...the MMO that tends to set the standards in this regard does this part a lot better but I really do not care about that one per se.
As I stated though, yeah it is not going to change here. If I thought it was I would have put it in Suggestions not General but it can be good to consider on occasion what it is you are doing and WHY. There is something rumored in the expansion about being able to join the dark side in PW...I wonder if that means you will get a chance at being Godly via the Wraith like Yan was? Probably not but that would be funny and honestly interesting.0 -
The reason why we say the "ohh this is generic, 99% blahblahblah" stuff is because well, it is generic. And, it isnt going to change, if the game wanted to have "smart" AI and innovative boss fights, this isnt the correct place for it. Those would be good suggestions for an idea of a brand new game, or an alpha, but not one that has been out for a long time.I was early taught to work as well as play,
My life has been one long, happy holiday;
Full of work and full of play-
I dropped the worry on the way-
And God was good to me everyday.0 -
I didn't read much seeing as you're writing a novel, which probably isn't worth reading. But it seems you're wanting to just 1 shot mobs your level? That's no fun. You could spend less time QQ'ing about it and just uninstall. ;) Always a good option.0
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What is being asked for here, I have seen in another mmo.
The monsters don't sit still. Sometimes they fly up out of your range and attack you from the sky. Sometimes they jump back to avoid your attacks, sometimes they block all attacks from the front, making you try to get behind them to damage them as they try to not let you get behind them.
There is a lot more than that and you can also run around to dodge the monsters attacks like you now have to do in frostcovered city.I am a barb that does not powerlevel, nor cash shop. I may not be the highest level, nor have the best gear. However unlike others, I know how to play.b:pleased0 -
Hmm... I don't see why the stat advantages are a problem. A human AI is unprogrammable, so high stats and overpowered monster skills are justifiable. b:bye0
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Saveless - Harshlands wrote: »I didn't read much seeing as you're writing a novel, which probably isn't worth reading. But it seems you're wanting to just 1 shot mobs your level? That's no fun. You could spend less time QQ'ing about it and just uninstall. ;) Always a good option.
omg... that's so rainbowy
also... if this game was actully more complecated like you suggested, it would require wayyyy more programming and they don't have that much budget since they're a "free" mmorpg. Don't request things like that if you don't want to pay $34.50 per week for a game.
btw yan the traitor = darth vador >:O
bad = power
uh....
I wanna be the very best, like no one ever was
to catch them is my real test, to train them is my cause
I will travel across the map, searching far and wide
each #@&%^@^ to understand, the power that's inside!
(#@&%^@^ gotta catch them all!)
It's you and me, I know it's my destiny
(#@&%^@^)
oh... you're my best friend, in a world we must defend
(#@&%^@^ gotta catch them all!)
a heart so true, our courage will pull us through
you teach me and I'll teach you
(#@ - &% - ^@^) gotta catch them all, gotta catch them all!
#@&%^@^![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] yay ^.^
stuffed a bunch of my favorite animes into 1 signature lolz0 -
Are you trying to compete with my DeepSkyBlue?Saveless - Harshlands wrote: »I didn't read much seeing as you're writing a novel, which probably isn't worth reading. But it seems you're wanting to just 1 shot mobs your level? That's no fun. You could spend less time QQ'ing about it and just uninstall. ;) Always a good option.The only way to win is to quit. b:bye0 -
They have already implemented less powerful monsters that fight with more tricks. Just go to frostlands and you will get interesting fights.
Why aren't there more of these types of fight. Obviously they take more work to code.0 -
Maybe you'd be happier playing a PS2 game b:sweat.
Off Topic: I used to think Yan the Traitor was Yang the Tailor b:nosebleed.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
♥ - 藤林 杏-様 - ♥
♥ Kyou Fujibayashi-sama ♥0 -
Saveless - Harshlands wrote: »I didn't read much seeing as you're writing a novel, which probably isn't worth reading. But it seems you're wanting to just 1 shot mobs your level? That's no fun. You could spend less time QQ'ing about it and just uninstall. ;) Always a good option.
How long did it take you to rainbow each & every letter in this post?0 -
QQ more plz?
and yeah as said before, the amount of coding it would take to cover the entire map and all the instances with mobs each having a sophisticated AI would be programing !@%&, would result in even more glitchs then there alrdy r, and would need so many programmers, that this game would have to become P2P...
/thread?"No matter how dark the world is,
light shall exist somewhere,
even if only a small sliver,
a light found among darkness,
shines all the brighter." -unknown0 -
Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »How long did it take you to rainbow each & every letter in this post?
It's a secret. And I don't color each word...try doing that, it won't look the same. :)0 -
this is one of reasons why i thought baldur's gate II (not an mmo) was epic...even tho you have the generic mobs, the wild beasts or bandits out there that occasionally ambush you, most major party vs npc fights are a lot more sophisticated. enemy parties don't have ridiculous amounts of hp, but are basically on par with your party with regards to what spells, skills, etc that are available to them. if caught with your pants down, it's rather easy to be faced with ridiculous spell combos (time stop + protect from evil + gate + meteor swarm comes to mind) that are hard to defeat. and enemy mages would always activate contingency protection spells upon meeting your party which you'd need to work to dispel or get around while thieves would chug invis pots to backstab your squishies for massive damage v.v. similarly, your party has this great arsenal to work with, and it just creates a lot of different strategies to face your enemies, a lot of unpredictability, and in general, a lot of fun.
i guess what some ask for is more interesting adversaries than "beat til its dead" bosses typical of lower level TT and FBs because some don't believe you should have to lvl to 9x for the bosses to start to get interesting. at any rate, i'm fine with the boring mobs, but for me bosses need to be more interestingElena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Saveless - Harshlands wrote: »It's a secret. And I don't color each word...try doing that, it won't look the same. :)
Haha, I found your secret, kind of o.o. Good old Google :D.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
♥ - 藤林 杏-様 - ♥
♥ Kyou Fujibayashi-sama ♥0 -
Accelerated - Sanctuary wrote: »Haha, I found your secret, kind of o.o. Good old Google :D.
Nope.
10char0 -
I c wut u did thar.I was early taught to work as well as play,
My life has been one long, happy holiday;
Full of work and full of play-
I dropped the worry on the way-
And God was good to me everyday.0 -
rainbow text is quickly becoming something that will not be permitted here, our eyes are burning!
Click here to send a ticket to Customer Support * tumblr
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eatwithspoons wrote: »rainbow text is quickly becoming something that will not be permitted here, our eyes are burning!
But but but...it's so pretty. ;(0 -
This isn't AIM in 1998.......b:chuckle
Click here to send a ticket to Customer Support * tumblr
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Is this ok? Its not "rainbow" anymore.I was early taught to work as well as play,
My life has been one long, happy holiday;
Full of work and full of play-
I dropped the worry on the way-
And God was good to me everyday.0 -
eatwithspoons wrote: »This isn't AIM in 1998.......b:chuckle
Sir, you are going off topic. Please talk about monsters. b:angry0 -
doiy, she hasnt done endgame...not high enough for that! there are a lot of dumb bosses and mobs in the game that are frustrating....i believe she was also blowing off a little steam about things that aggrivate her. i know i have....one my pet peeves that she mentioned was Yan. having him there on the beach, right with low level players, is one of the stupidest things in the game (so far! ><)By the looks of your tirade, you sound like you've never done an endgame inistance. There are many endgame bosses that require much timing, strategy, and cooperation to overcome, IE Belial in HH2-3, (which I think is.. Ancient Evil: Lethal Vengeance here if PW database is right), which requires much team work to trump, and afterwards yields magnificent rewards. This sounds much like an inexperienced player complaining about the norm in Asian MMOs whereas 'grinding' is a regular norm. If you dont like the way this MMO works, you wont like many MMOs, otherwise, please refrain from making complaints about a common thing many people really dont mind.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
(and hugs to Flauschkatze for the sig!)
"Thanks for writing me-- it's always great to hear from a vet.
-FrankieRaye"
Playing here since '08b:heart0 -
It posted even though I pressed Preview... Forget this, carry on... x_x0
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I worked in the industry for a bit, and talked a lot with the developers of Ultima Online. Basically, the problem is that computer AI will never be as good as human intelligence. If you make mobs play by the same rules as players, you are relying entirely upon their AI to defeat players. Since the AI, once programmed, is static, players will figure out tricks to get around it or fool it, providing them with easy kills.Hasukurobi - Heavens Tear wrote: »My ponderance is why do monsters always have to work on such a DRASTICALLY different scale than Players? What I mean is why do they ALWAYS get to have IMMENSELY larger HP/MP than we do? They never run out of MP and they have Millions of HP while we struggle to get into the 10K range. Instead of giving the monsters a wider variety of skills, some good AI, and make them fewer in number but more savvy and give much greater rewards for killing them we are always stuck with the same dumb as rocks beasts who just over power us to no end.
So you have to resort to giving mobs things players cannot get around. Usually this is gobs of hp and much more powerful attacks. Some of the more creative games (which the rules prohibit me from mentioning) use large numbers of mobs arriving at rapid intervals. Though I guess this game does that too in Rebirth.
Even if you could develop an AI capable of challenging most of the players, there's no way you can implement it in a MMORPG with today's technology. The best real-time AI algorithms can barely drive a car at 25 mph. You're not going to be able to give every single mob on the server that level of AI.
This is not something new. All the old single-player games ran into the same problem. In games like ******** and Civilization, the computer cheats. It's the only way to make it a challenging opponent for the average human player.
Edit: lol - guess mentioning that name is blacklisted here. It starts with a W and ends in aft. I'm referring to the single-player version which became popular in the 1990s, not the current MMORPG.
Anyway, this is why PvP is and will always be an option in these games. If you want to fight an opponent playing by the same rules as you are, go PvP.0
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