The reason people think wizards "suck"

YowZun - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Well first off i dont think they suck, the reason i think so many ppl think they suck is because ppl want to look at EVERY classes power from a PvsP standpoint(i.e. the "revised wizard PvsP gide"). It seems to me that every class is an automatic fail if they cant kill someone like Chuck Norris can in a duel or PK, people fail to understand that a wizard is NOT made for battle with other players. We are made to kill monsters, whats why we are given the best elemental advantage, also our SLOW channeling time SHOULD have told you that the wizard is not a player fighting class. Why do people want to judge a classes power solely on PK or duels? Are people really that obsessed with enhancing the size of their "E-PEEN"? I'm just saying folks if wizards "sucked"
so bad i wuld not be seeing lvl 70, 80, and 90+ walking around? Is beating the **** outta each other all that matters anymore? So what what if I cant kill a BM, WB , Veno, or any other class, in my mind as long as i can kill the monsters that i need to kill for my quest or for grinding i dont "SUCK". Oh, and please dont use my lvl to flame me because that just proves how dumb you really are, im speaking out of common sense here, and thinking with my brain not my e-peen. so PEACE..if that's not too much to ask.b:victory

WitchBurner - Sanctuary · May 2009

Chuck Norris doesn't duel....

Someone finish this for me?

Also, agreed, PvE we are some of the most efficent grind machines out there. Killing mobs your own level in 4 hits without getting touched....awesome.

YowZun - Heavens Tear · May 2009

HaHA i know Chuck Norris doesnt duel..he PKs!!! but im glad you agree..

Darkzero - Dreamweaver · May 2009

yea that's true i guess everyone looks at it at pvp but in pve we are good damage dealer depending on what build and skill u got

_makina_ - Sanctuary · May 2009

Chuck Norris got pk'd by Bruce Lee in The Return of the Dragon.

Treza - Lost City · May 2009

omfg if i see one more thread that says wizzies suck in pvp im gonna rip off my own **** and eat it!!!

the idea that mages suck at pvp has come from the PVE!!! servers!! noobs on those servers the only thing theyre brave enough to do is duel! and wizzies obviously suck in duels!!! so they are like aWWW waaah!!! wizards suck at pvp!!!

:'( and then you get all these asses going on!! wizards dont suck at pvp they suck at duels and thats most of where "pvp" opinions come from bec ause of them dam pve servers

wizards are nukers and nukers are good pkers!! they just aint good at duels so if ur in pve servers and you started wiz to "pvp" as you call it, then youve rolled the wrong class, cleric is the superior class in a duel, and its not because you can heal either

Rinnve - Lost City · May 2009

YowZun - Heavens Tear wrote: »

people fail to understand that a wizard is NOT made for battle with other players.

In fact, wizard is very pvp-aligned class. Veno is the pve class. Clerics are just as good as damage-dealers and much more versatile; cleric >>> wizard for fbs, hhs and whatnot (that is, if both are equally skilled). Wizard... The only class that have some chances for killing barb 1v1, and you say that wiz is not suited for pvp? Come on.

The reason people qq about their "gimped" wizards and reroll to "better" classes is that pure wizard build is generally considered the best. It is, but only with adequate equipment, and least one is full 90HH +5. Before that, survivability must be gained by other means.

Feiric - Harshlands · May 2009

Treza - Lost City wrote: »

omfg if i see one more thread that says wizzies suck in pvp im gonna rip off my own **** and eat it!!!

the idea that mages suck at pvp has come from the PVE!!! servers!! noobs on those servers the only thing theyre brave enough to do is duel! and wizzies obviously suck in duels!!! so they are like aWWW waaah!!! wizards suck at pvp!!! :'( and then you get all these asses going on!! wizards dont suck at pvp they suck at duels and thats most of where "pvp" opinions come from bec ause of them dam pve servers

wizards are nukers and nukers are good pkers!! they just aint good at duels so if ur in pve servers and you started wiz to "pvp" as you call it, then youve rolled the wrong class, cleric is the superior class in a duel, and its not because you can heal either

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

In fact, wizard is very pvp-aligned class. Veno is the pve class. Clerics are just as good as damage-dealers and much more versatile; cleric >>> wizard for fbs, hhs and whatnot (that is, if both are equally skilled). Wizard... The only class that have some chances for killing barb 1v1, and you say that wiz is not suited for pvp? Come on.

The reason people qq about their "gimped" wizards and reroll to "better" classes is that pure wizard build is generally considered the best. It is, but only with adequate equipment, and least one is full 90HH +5. Before that, survivability must be gained by other means.

These quotes about sum it up for wizards, in my opinion. Well put.

I think the saying "A bad mechanic blames his tools," applies (something like that.) Or in the photography business, we say the problem might be operator error.

Kristoph - Lost City · May 2009

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

Chuck Norris doesn't duel....

Someone finish this for me?

Also, agreed, PvE we are some of the most efficent grind machines out there. Killing mobs your own level in 4 hits without getting touched....awesome.

Uh no. Veno's have it easier, Archers have it easier, BMs/Barbs can AOE, clerics can party with BMs or grind like a wizard can. Wizards have no advantage when it comes to grinding. It's either slower or more expensive because of MP costs.

The_Champion - Sanctuary · May 2009

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

Chuck Norris doesn't duel....

Chuck norris doesn't duel or PK, he murders!!!!!

_makina_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Chuck Norris got pk'd by Bruce Lee in The Return of the Dragon.

I think it was Way of the dragon but I'm not sure. And outside of the movie they fought eachother and bruce lee brokechuck's ribs. ut Chuck norris is still betterin my opionion.

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Uh no. Wizards have no advantage when it comes to grinding. It's either slower or more expensive because of MP costs.

My wizard gf has a good advantage..... ME! What a wizard has (AMAZING DAMAGE) I don't, but she has low hp and defense (pure mage build), While I have great hp and defense. So while I tank she takes them out! So when I'm grinding or doing a quest, anything really (besides an fb) I'd rather have my hot as hell wizard gf then a cleric.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · May 2009

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Uh no. Veno's have it easier, Archers have it easier, BMs/Barbs can AOE, clerics can party with BMs or grind like a wizard can. Wizards have no advantage when it comes to grinding. It's either slower or more expensive because of MP costs.

Don't grind the same damn mobs Archers or Clerics do. Chose you're grinding mobs on your strength. By lvl 8x I thought you already realized that. I want to see what class at lvl 72 can kill faster than me a lvl 78 dragonmaid. I need 3 shots for that damn thing. Cleric needs at least 4, barbs and bms are not even counting. I'm using ~680mp/3 shots, now let's say cleric goes with Razor-cyclone-plume-plume/cyclone. That's at least 740mp. Now on wood mobs, the cleric can come to down to 3 hits, and that would mean ~600mp/mob. The trick here is we have the Glacial embrace that restores mana better than the cleric's Exalted Renewal ( ours give 10MP/sec, I don't think cleric gets there). So in the end it's just a matter of a few mp difference. Is that really worth making a case? Are we gone that far to count 1-2-30 MP/ mobs to make a diff between classes and call one or the other the better one?
Veno's are the killing machines with "nix, and even herc if played correctly, no one can beat that. But to say wizards don't have advantages when grinding...come on, that sounds like u don't know how to play your char.
Really now, I don't intend and don't want to bash you mainly because you're higher lvl and might have more xp...but what you've said in the quote it's just not acceptable...

Mysticlifex - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Cleric's don't need distance shrink, we turn god down when he wanted to give it to us.

Don't need wellspring quaff we buy charms

Ursa - Dreamweaver · May 2009

THEN where the hell is the grinding advantage that guy was talking about?

Erado - Heavens Tear · May 2009

the advantage is called versatility.

plumeshot, plume barrier, ironheart, purify & the obvious cleric buffs to name a few skills that give you advantage over wizard.

Moobysnax - Lost City · May 2009

People think Wizards suck because it's the hardest class to use. With high damage as our only means of survival it is hard, especially if you're fighting something that has good mag defense. Alot of people quit early because they don't know the Wizard tactic of running away, aka "kiting" so it doesn't sound bad. As the Wizard you're basically the guy who runs away while throwing bombs behind him and hopes whatever behind him dies before it reaches him.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · May 2009

Erado - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the advantage is called versatility.

plumeshot, plume barrier, ironheart, purify & the obvious cleric buffs to name a few skills that give you advantage over wizard.

versatility of the class in general is one thing, grinding is another. I'm not talking about the class in general, I'm talking about grinding, I thought I made that clear enough. And about versatility, I have 3 elements i can do max dmg on, a cleric has one:wood. How is that more versatile than me in solo PvE?
So tell me how is a cleric better than a wizz when grinding solo for example? I would really like to see some points made there, cause if we go to a squad mode the discution is useless.

Rinnve - Lost City · May 2009

Hardest? I don't think so. I did not have any problems with any kind of mobs. Melee? Phoenix & blink ftw. Ranged? Earth barrier, blink close to them and they hit like nothing. Magical? Meh. Try leveling bm and quest on mixed attack "social" mobs, when you must choose between being owned by magic from distance or by melee attacks. I leveled 4X bm on jade shore where those skeleton-like thingies walk in groups. It's pain in the ****. Each class has some weak points.

Erado - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

versatility of the class in general is one thing, grinding is another. I'm not talking about the class in general, I'm talking about grinding, I thought I made that clear enough. And about versatility, I have 3 elements i can do max dmg on, a cleric has one:wood. How is that more versatile than me in solo PvE?
So tell me how is a cleric better than a wizz when grinding solo for example? I would really like to see some points made there, cause if we go to a squad mode the discution is useless.

basically... those skills i mentioned earlyer will get you out of any potential tight spot with as little effort as possible.
poison/burn/whatever mobs? purify.
magic defense mobs? deal physical dmg.
And offcourse you have the elemental skills, and you can really deal nice dmg if you use that to your advantage, but a cleric still carries his own defense and offense buffs, which makes up for the elemental dmg increase.

(and yeah... i have played a wizard up until a decent lvl, though on the malaysian version of this game)

Ursa - Dreamweaver · May 2009

I don't want to bring numbers in discussion again, but for the elements we control we have a 100% increase in def with our shields and we have a mastery for each and every one of those elements, that means 20% increase in dmg for all of them, and by default our spells do more damage than the clerics (or at least the numbers on the skill description say so). So with all the offensive buffs the cleric has, it will probably come closer to the dmg a wizz does. That is if the wizz is not buffed. But really, I haven't seen a non r-tard wizzard going out to grind(eso not normal quests) without cleric buffs.

Rinnve - Lost City · May 2009

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and by default our spells do more damage than the clerics (or at least the numbers on the skill description say so).

That's simply not correct. Cleric's spells are very close to wizard's. Two basic "stable-dps" spells are exactly equal except of elements; wield thunder is basically SS, a bit weaker but a bit faster; so is tempest (= ice dragon).

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So with all the offensive buffs the cleric has, it will probably come closer to the dmg a wizz does. That is if the wizz is not buffed.

It depends. I don't think that anyone of my lvl/eq can outdamage me on water mobs; on the other way, it's impossible for wizard to outdamage cleric on wood mobs, buffed or not. As for other elements, difference in damage is not high 'cause wizard can't spam fire or water spells.

p.s. did you received my pm reply?

Ursa - Dreamweaver · May 2009

well, we can't spam fire or water, but we can have 2 maxed shots and 1 fill (SR) and the mob is down. Cleric will need at least one other shot.
To see the diff get with a cleric fried at some earth resistent mobs and hit them with fire/water. I can guarantee you the cleric will need +1 hit to bring them down. Ofc, we can't match them on wood mobs, but we come damn close. I don't know why ppl forget about element masteries, but I tell you, those are gold to upgrade. 20% more dmg on gush/pyro and I tell you, cleric will have trouble keeping up with our dps

Erado - Heavens Tear · May 2009

The only difference in damage between cleric and wizard comes with the higher lvl skills, skills like wield thunder and tempest have lower max dmg % then the wizard skills, the 2 base skills are more or less the same in dmg and channeling speed.

Cleric has the same elemental (metal) mastery btw, so theres not much difference there either.

That being said though, the biggest difference in dmg comes from build & gear. Lots of clerics go for survivability instead of dmg, that doesnt mean the potential for dmg of a cleric is much lower then that of a wizard.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear · May 2009

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Uh no. Veno's have it easier, Archers have it easier, BMs/Barbs can AOE, clerics can party with BMs or grind like a wizard can. Wizards have no advantage when it comes to grinding. It's either slower or more expensive because of MP costs.

venos can only do better with herc.

archers can't heal themselves. we do.

barbs and blademasters can't do aoe grinding without hp charm. we do.

even with crazy mp usage our mp bar lasts long. compare to archers and see we can do it without mp charm while they cannot. btw arctic orbs are easy to make.

WitchBurner - Sanctuary · May 2009

@Kristoph, you really need to stop feeling sorry for yourself. Other than Veno's(Who aren't really a class, just a way for 12yr olds to play this game) we are the only class who take on mobs without recieving any damage, our large mp pool means we only need to rest after around 15 mobs. We can also Zen(without the overcomplicated setup process that archers need). True we might not kill fast but our repair bills rarely cover more than our weapon.

A class is only as good as the person using it, many of the people crying about us are failures. Many of the people saying "Haha you suck, #### class is so much better noobz" seem to be making up for poor self esteem in real life/Failure to use their own class.

overlordshn · May 2009

i've never even played a wizard but i agree completely, a class doesnt "suck" just b/c its not the best at pvp. i dont know about other players but i know i dont play rpgs so i can beat up people. and theres more to games than just fighting ppl so you can brag about it.

OmegaFlare - Harshlands · May 2009

ithink after hard work and didication.wizard will pay off in the end game

check this one lvl 111 wizard pwn a lvl 150 warrior

pretty coool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR4SIcOYFsA

Pirodar - Sanctuary · June 2009

I am the number one whiner here and I've never complained about wizard's odds in PvP. I don't care about PvP.

It's all a matter of a perspective. If You look around and see what other classes can do the perspective changes. At 82 I could kill Butterflies in 4 strikes pyro > gush> pyro > gush when buffed. They are wood type, but still I killed easier than most clerics.

But one at a time.

It was fast, it was cheap, very cheap. With cleric's buffs I could barely deplete my mana reserves by killing like mad.

But one at a time.

You can blame me, but at 83 killing like this is hardly fun. When You realise this, You start to look for other options. And You can see BMs AoEing like mad. You can see Venos with Hercs gathering loads of mobs around the pet and AoEing them. You can see clerics who can take 7+ poisoning mobs at a time healing and purifying themselves and then nuking the whole group with their AoEs. And the poison doesn't break the equipment.

And it's fun.

But it's not for You.

You have those wonderful ults and you die to put them into some use, but You can't. The best You can count on, is when 3+ mobs happen to be close enough to be enclosed in the AoE area, because You can't tank and gather them. And it happens rarely. 4+ once in a lifetime. When You try to kite and gather something You realise the aggro duration is way to short. And your only real AoE not requiring sparks - Hailstorm is the worst **** in the game. Clerics and Venos have better ones. It's not only the weakest, but it has a side effect that seems like a mean joke done by the devs. It breaks Your group, when some mobs get frozen. So you are forced to abuse Will of the Phoenix and it kind of works sometimes, but it's more like playing a violin with your foot, than just playing good music. Adorable, but Your goal is to grind efficiently, not doing tricks like in the circus. So when You get frustrated enough you return to

nuke, nuke, nuke, nuke, next,
nuke, nuke, nuke, nuke, next...

Happy grinding

Ursa - Dreamweaver · June 2009

Solo AoE grind is not easy for wizz and i don't see how it's easy for archer. It's somehow diff for cleric, but it comes down to chosing the right mobs. I can grind at lvl 78 dragonmaids in 3 shots now, that's a pretty good kill/xp rate.

but, you have : gush/P/gush/p = 9 sec/ mob. I've seen BMs solo AoE grind at spiders and wasn't impressed. Took time to gather, stun, hit, stun, hit,stun .... then in the end he succeded to kil about 5-6. A wizz same lvl in that same amount of time would have killed at least 4 -5 mobs. The diff isn't that great.

And seriosusly, from what I've seen in my guild, if at lvl 80+ you are not doing rebirth you're doing something wrong. That's the main XP /cash source, I tell you, i've seen ppl going from poor to rich in a matter of days. Rich= refined gear/wpn - better survival in rebirth = more chances to get xp/cash .

Kristoph - Lost City · June 2009

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

venos can only do better with herc.

archers can't heal themselves. we do.

barbs and blademasters can't do aoe grinding without hp charm. we do.

even with crazy mp usage our mp bar lasts long. compare to archers and see we can do it without mp charm while they cannot. btw arctic orbs are easy to make.

Yeah, because a pet doesn't tank mobs for you... oh wait. Archers don't need to heal themselves, they have winged shell to absorb some damage and they simply don't get hit most of the time, make an archer yourself, you'll see. The rest can be done with some simple pots. Ofcourse zhenning is a different story, but whatever. BMs and Barbs CAN AOE without a charm, it's called tree of protection and/or a cleric. And no, your MP bar only lasts long at low levels, at higher levels you easily need 1-2k MP for kill, which means it's empty in what, 5-8 kills?

Witchburner - Sanctuary wrote: »

@Kristoph, you really need to stop feeling sorry for yourself. Other than Veno's(Who aren't really a class, just a way for 12yr olds to play this game) we are the only class who take on mobs without recieving any damage, our large mp pool means we only need to rest after around 15 mobs. We can also Zen(without the overcomplicated setup process that archers need). True we might not kill fast but our repair bills rarely cover more than our weapon.

A class is only as good as the person using it, many of the people crying about us are failures. Many of the people saying "Haha you suck, #### class is so much better noobz" seem to be making up for poor self esteem in real life/Failure to use their own class.

I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm just pointing out that people who say wizards have it easier than other classes in PvE are wrong; nobody has problems in PvE. Besides, veno's are a way for 12 year olds to play the game? You seem to be the one with some dislike for a class here.

And you honestly need to learn about other classes if you think we're the only ones taking no damage. That and there's other classes/builds which can do well in PvE. Ever tried playing a Fist BM? You can kill non stop without using HP pots/HP charm, you'll only be using some MP pots, which you usually find anyway, and 6x has a pair of Fists with MP regen. That's repair costs only rather than MP costs like wizards. Archers? They don't need a HP charm when grinding normally, they have more target control spells than we do. Except that their skills are far cheaper, when it comes to MP cost. And so on.

Mrbungle - Lost City · June 2009

wiz is the weakest class in nearly every aspect.
nobody can deny that fact
i dont say wizards are useless but every other class can do their job too (maybe even better)

the problem is known for ages but i highly doubt that the gms will ever do some balancing. im still looking at this site from time to time if there was a balancing patch but sadly i will probably never be able to play this game again

Jertor - Sanctuary · June 2009

who cares if ppl say wizards suck if u like ur char then it shouldnt matter wat ppl say

The reason people think wizards "suck"

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