The reason people think wizards "suck"

Rinnve - Lost City

Whiteleo - Lost City wrote: »

Most mobs do not require any of those = water mob? b:chuckle

Yes. Also fire, metal, wood, non-elemental and some earth. I do use FoW sometimes, but just to save hp (= less heals & pots, faster). And of course it becames more interesting when several mobs attacks you (especially if one or more is SA).

Whiteleo - Lost City wrote: »

How many classes did you tried? <== and u?

All of them at least to 3X-4X.

Whiteleo - Lost City wrote: »

P.S- if 3 water mob attack you (same time and if u don't use pot) u surely die

So does archer, bm, cleric and veno (at least without herc). May be barb. That is, if they just stand and pewpew.

Whiteleo - Lost City

Rinnve - Lost City wrote: »

So does archer, bm, cleric and veno (at least without herc). May be barb. That is, if they just stand and pewpew.

nope, i have seen BM, Barb attacked by 3 mob they can tank and fight back
easily , they can survive, Cleric also seen (heal and fight back). veno seen with pet(she exchange her MP with HP survive. i haven't seen archer vs 3 mob though.

me(wizard) = died lol b:surrender

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Cause u didn't use your skills properly.
And you will continue dying until you learn how to.
If you won't you'll just get sick of it and roll a "superior" class. But you will always return to the wizz thread to bash to make you feel better

Rinnve - Lost City

Whiteleo - Lost City wrote: »

nope, i have seen BM, Barb attacked by 3 mob they can tank and fight back

Without using pots, charm or self-heal? Pure physical mobs possible, if equipment is not complete junk. Combined - very hard or impossible, depends on hp. Don't look, just try it yourself. I tried. Y'know, it hurts when one mobs is in melee range but two others are **** you with magic.

Whiteleo - Lost City wrote: »

easily , they can survive, Cleric also seen (heal and fight back).
veno seen with pet(she exchange her MP with HP survive.

Wait, didn't you talked about that wizard needs lots of strategy and skill while any other class just stand and pewpew? So it seems that others need it as well...

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Yeah, and? Archers are still better DDs for most bosses, and pretty much every HH run.

So what's your point? you think archers are better than wizards? go play one lol

just be advised you need both hp and mp charms to do anything and angels because you'll get killed several times by bosses for crit chains.

Whiteleo - Lost City wrote: »

seriously i can't tank 3 mob at the same time(without using pot)b:cry
PS- i use creepy armor, i can't effort 3* blah blah blah and can't refine b:sad

refining is usually more expensive than getting good items. get some 3-star stuff and i'm sure you'll be doing fine.
if you happen to deal with water magic mobs, make sure you're using your water shield and you have it lvl10. if they hit you hard, you can always send one for a walk with force of will and attack the closest one with will of phoenix as starting skill to prevent 1 more hit. if things get nasty you can use sutra to heal and to finish one of them.

Kristoph - Lost City

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So what's your point? you think archers are better than wizards? go play one lol

just be advised you need both hp and mp charms to do anything and angels because you'll get killed several times by bosses for crit chains.

My point is, even is archers aren't NEEDED for bosses, they're the best damage dealers. Meaning his "omg wizerds can do sth!11" post is worthless. Besides, wizards aren't needed for anything, if a wizard can tank it, a barb, cleric, archer or herc will be able to as well. There's always an alternative.


And no, you don't need an MP hiero on an archer, and no, you don't die often unless you seriously suck at the game. Not everyone is dumb when it comes to taking agro and how to react if you do.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

.... if things get nasty you can use sutra to heal and to finish one of them.

if a wizz has issues killing water mobs that are 3-4 lvl above him then that player should delete the char and roll a barb or bm, cause obviously he doesn't understand how to play the wizard class. With so many guides around, forums and ecatomb to read some close to accurate skill descriptions someone has to be r-tarded if he has problems with fighting 1-2-3 mobs at the same time, mobs on which we have every possible advantage in the game except being imune to dmg.

Kristoph wrote:

My point is, even is archers aren't NEEDED for bosses, they're the best damage dealers

If they chain critt. Never forget that. Wizards on the other hand have high constant dmg (Robe not LA, LA is outdamage by every ranged class). Archers crit more and more as the lvl grows and that's the only way for them to do a high dmg output, but wizards have 2 ways to improve: skills that have magic attk+ xxx% of wpn + someting and channeling. -30% channeling is achievable to any decent player and with a +4 +5 wpn I really dont believe an archer can outdamage a wizz at the same lvl unless he chain crits 3-4 hits at least.
As survivability goes, archer's LA will give more pdef and HP if refined and socketed properly. A robe wizz with +3+4 refined gear and socketed with pdef with the EB on comes really really close in dmg reduction to a LA archer/wizz.

Kristoph - Lost City

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If they chain critt. Never forget that. Wizards on the other hand have high constant dmg (Robe not LA, LA is outdamage by every ranged class). Archers crit more and more as the lvl grows and that's the only way for them to do a high dmg output, but wizards have 2 ways to improve: skills that have magic attk+ xxx% of wpn + someting and channeling. -30% channeling is achievable to any decent player and with a +4 +5 wpn I really dont believe an archer can outdamage a wizz at the same lvl unless he chain crits 3-4 hits at least.
As survivability goes, archer's LA will give more pdef and HP if not refined and socketed properly. A robe wizz with +3+4 refined gear and socketed with pdef with the EB on comes really really close in dmg reduction to a LA archer/wizz.

Archers don't need to "chain crit". Critting every 4-5 shots is good enough, they'll outdamage wizards in most cases. It will also cost them close to nothing, because they can auto-attack, and they can get rid of 16% HP in 1 shot at the beginning. So archers are better damage dealers for most things.


And no, -30% channeling isn't easily achievable. 9% off Endless Amb/HH90 and Sea Capt sleeves/HH90 gold, sure. That's 21% needed from rings/rank top, because hardly anyone is stupid enough to waste a few mil on buying -6% channeling belt/neck when they're useless in pvp for arcane builds. Most people will aim for a good pdef belt/necklace. Which, at decent levels, will cost you a lot of money. And +4-5 weapon? If you give an archer the same kind of gear he will outdamage you, too bad. And wizard damage honestly sucks if you're hitting wood/earth/non-element mobs, and archers have a fire self buff so the metal element bosses also don't do much for wizards. That leaves Fire and Water. Not a lot. And even then you'll probably be outdamaged by full dex archers.


And your last line is just stupid, honestly.
- Refining gear adds HP in most cases, and LA can refine pdef ornaments too, so that argument is void. Also means your little channeling thing is definately ****ed, since pdef ornaments don't come with -channeling.
- Yes, you can socket with pdef, but LA will have more HP. Who cares that wizards can get as much pdef as archers, anyway? That wasn't even related.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

yeah, that last line didn't came out properly
Pdef ornaments don't come with channeling but for solo grind/fbs and TT you don't need a lot of pdef unless you have a crappy squad. Having 2 belts/necklaces with pdef is not a big investment. I have 1 set of belt/neck with mdef , channeling , +magic and HP for daily use and pdef with pdef options for TW/wherever else where I need pdef. Works just fine honestly, you should try it.

And about the wizz dmg sucking for wood/earth...well...dunno what to say. You obviously doing something wrong. Yes, the dmg is lowered, you need 3 or 4 hits instead of 2 or 3 to take them down. So what? those are quest mobs anyway, no wizz in his right mind will grind on those. And yeah, Archer can have some fire attk too, but checking the skills dmg output I seriously doubt archer at my lvl can outdamage me on metal mobs. Seriously. Check the skill numbers and add 20% from mastery. Unless he chain crits we are at least on par.

I always pay attention to other classes kill time when I do quests. And I'm trying a few times to sync my DD start with the other player's DD start. Last time I did was at some vultures above Sanctuary I think (non element ?), Same lvl Archer with +3 TT 70 wpn never killed faster than me. never. At shot count he needed at least 1 normal shots more than me and he was usually pumping a kickback by the time my finisher was casted and then normal attk to finish. He's last normal shot was always after my finisher. True, that was like what...0.5 - 1s difference, but still, was there.
I might have done this compare with someone that sucked at playing his class, but it's not first time this is happening.
Archer is a great DD based on crits. of those are not happening is just an average class.

DishyWiggles - Harshlands

YowZun - Heavens Tear wrote: »

people fail to understand that a wizard is NOT made for battle with other players. We are made to kill monsters, whats why we are given the best elemental advantage, also our SLOW channeling time SHOULD have told you that the wizard is not a player fighting class.

Did you just say wizards arent made for killing other players....? Explain why wizard 1 shots everything end game?(and mid game with ult crits)

Also, slow channeling time >.<? lets see here. Sutra. 1 sec cast onnly, no channel. 3 spells off right away. not PvP at all, Sutra cant take down ANYONE EVER *sarcasm*

Nukes: lets see here... Slow nukes...so what? Nukes can easily be a 1 shot to all classes.(Yes, even barbs with crits) Wizards are the glass cannon class. They die fast, but they take down 5 ppl with them. You accept that as your role in life when you play a wizard.

Slow channeling time isnt a factor in anything. gush, blink sandstorm, run gush sandstorm pheonix. Nothing survives that. NOTHING. sure you CAN get stunned, but they have anti-stun powder for that. Wizard is best PvP class. what other class can 1 shot any class?

Even if you don't 1 shot ppl, you have an AoE stun for 6 seconds in a 12 meter radius that does great damage and is an auto charm-tick (but noone uses it because of lower dmg) You have Ice Dragon, which with Sutra has like a 2 second cast and a big chance to 1 shot.

Mrbungle - Lost City

you talk about one-shotting like there would be a button called "1-shot"
it isnt that easy and often as you may think

Ursa - Dreamweaver

unless you're and archer with about 45-50% crit. 35% is good enough too b:laugh
You can't beat that crit power unless you have a huge amount of HP - hence if you don't sleep a high lvl archer you're fked b:surrender

Ursa - Dreamweaver

DishyWiggles - Harshlands wrote: »

...

What I learn playing this game is that no one gets one-shot at endgame unless you get really lucky and you crit on some really favorable circumstances.
Otherwise, the high lvl of refinement on gears add a huge amount of HP that cannot be overcomed by just a simple hit/crit no matter what skill u use.
One shot on someone is possible from 50s when u get your ultimates. At that lvl those spells hit hard ( no matter what class you are) and usually the gear/hp is ****.
By endgame (90+ for a vast majority , 100+ for a few) if you refine the gear to a +7-9 at least ( i know is expensive, but if the your lvl pace is going to bring you from 90 to 100 in 2 years, well, you might just try to be the best possible player for the lvl u have) things are changing rapidly in favor of surviving

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

unless you're and archer with about 45-50% crit. 35% is good enough too b:laugh
You can't beat that crit power unless you have a huge amount of HP - hence if you don't sleep a high lvl archer you're fked b:surrender

that makes me wonder how powerful a sage heavy wiz can get... for both defense and attack.

Kristoph - Lost City

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yeah, that last line didn't came out properly
Pdef ornaments don't come with channeling but for solo grind/fbs and TT you don't need a lot of pdef unless you have a crappy squad. Having 2 belts/necklaces with pdef is not a big investment. I have 1 set of belt/neck with mdef , channeling , +magic and HP for daily use and pdef with pdef options for TW/wherever else where I need pdef. Works just fine honestly, you should try it.

Because your level sucks. -6% channeling gear is 2m easily per piece, and 87 necklace is 6m+. Meaning it isn't worth the money to get two sets of **** anymore.


I'm not even going to respond to the other ****. Bosses, not grinding, and not crappy archers but ones who know how to DD. I mean, seriously, hh70? lol. -interval please. And yay, 20% magic masteries. Bow mastery has 60%, who cares?

Ursa - Dreamweaver

yeah, whatever, troll away, you must know it all lol.
I won't even bother with u anymore, be happy in you bubble.

Jrudora - Lost City

Sharpened Tooth > Any mage of any kind in an fb/TT/HH run.
End of story.
Whoever thinks archers are still weaker dps than wizards in dungeons... please... reconsider. Watch a real archer at work, then come back.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

I did, but was 20 lvl above me, so not a real comparison.
I still have to find one my lvl to compare with

Jrudora - Lost City

Thing is... an archer can dish out 16% of a boss mob in one shot.
That in itself is already very hard for a mage to accomplish, not to mention an archer's damage doesn't trail a wizard's by much, making it even more difficult for us to catch up.

Forp - Heavens Tear

in a long term fight, an archer will always win. mages have burst damage. channels slowly but does a lot in 1 hit.

unless you're racking up 15% crit and 50% chan you're not going anywhere near that archers dps in a long term fight.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

Jrudora - Lost City wrote: »

Sharpened Tooth > Any mage of any kind in an fb/TT/HH run.
End of story.
Whoever thinks archers are still weaker dps than wizards in dungeons... please... reconsider. Watch a real archer at work, then come back.

I DID!!!

archer taking aggro at FB = dead archer with no xp.

archer taking aggro at TT = dead squad.

oh wait... according to kristoph that would be a noob archer. then a pro archer deals lower damage?

Ursa - Dreamweaver

a good archer never steals aggro, unless he wants too and then he's sure he can take whatever that mob brings upon it.
I've been in Fbs with archers higher lvl than me, I tanked magic mobs but never got aggro stolen. Because they knew how to pace the dmg and also because every now and then the sutra burst helps if used on the boss weakness (where the case).

Kristoph - Lost City

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I DID!!!

archer taking aggro at FB = dead archer with no xp.

archer taking aggro at TT = dead squad.

oh wait... according to kristoph that would be a noob archer. then a pro archer deals lower damage?

Archers don't die so easily unless they have ****ty gear. But you're on heaven's tear, so your standards are pathetic anyway.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Archers don't die so easily unless they have ****ty gear. But you're on heaven's tear, so your standards are pathetic anyway.

that's really mature...I know now how much value I can put on your posts. Thanks.

Forp - Heavens Tear

he's right. our server has no standards outside tw and beliel/illusion parties. everywhere else you might as well run around naked, people don't care and you have no risk at being attacked.

Konariraiden - Heavens Tear

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Archers don't die so easily unless they have ****ty gear. But you're on heaven's tear, so your standards are pathetic anyway.

As one of my favorite cartoons once told me; "Hostility is the calling card of a weak intellect." Every class has their ups and downs, and I have to say, I couldn't play any class other than a Wizard. Sure, we maybe not be the "best" or "standard" class, but that's why I like it. High level Wizards can be put up on a pedastal of sorts, to say, "Hey, I'm part of the rare breed of high-level Wizards; I had patience and perserverence to trudge through my shortcomings and reach this new level of power!"

Sure, everyone at 80, 90+ has taken a lot of time and dedication...but with all the bashing of the Wizard's weaknesses and shortcomings, getting our class to that same level just seems like all the much more, y'know?

Remember, don't judge us based on server. A hasty assumption like that automatically invalidates your argument. ~.^

Jrudora - Lost City

I'm pretty sure our masteries do not get calculated AFTER our entire damage calculations are complete. In other words, our masteries do not add to our current damage output, but rather is a % increase in our skill's listed damage.

Hence the reason why people state water mastery is useless in early levels because gush's damage modifier is rather low.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Wizz are as good as their dmg/hit.
Archers are as good as their crits
BMs are as good as their stuns.
Clerics are as good as their heals.
Barbs are as good as their def.
Venos are as good as their pets.


We can have multiple variations of these builds to trade one's strength to somehow compensate a weakness. Of course, adding variations to these builds makes the game interesting. Otherwise everyone would go on the same path to build a char and the only race would be to have the best gear. But what we all should understand is that you TRADE a strength compensate a weakness.

King_Solomon - Heavens Tear

Kristoph - Lost City wrote: »

Archers don't die so easily unless they have ****ty gear. But you're on heaven's tear, so your standards are pathetic anyway.

the first server i've played was LC. moved not because of ragequit but because my guild alliance moved from mu and my guild master insisted to play on HT. i followed them without thinking twice. the first thing i noticed when i moved is that archers are far less popular here in HT. in pvp servers people seem to believe archers are better, ignoring their weaknesses... not knowing their are ways to exploit them in a way they have no chance even being higher in level and more fortunate with equips.

Forp - Heavens Tear

passive adds a % of your skills base magic addition.

level 10 gush has a 1372.6 base damage. with a level 10 water mastery, that's 1647.12 damage.

not so impressive.

level 10 glacial snare has 4880.1 base damage. with a level 10 water mastery, that's 5856.12.

still not very impressive.

level 10 black ice dragon as 9648.9 base damage. with a level 10 water mastery, that's 11,578.68.

b:dirty