Pets, numbers, and sorting. Answer to the eternal "What's the best pet?" question !

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  • Neisaku - Sanctuary
    Neisaku - Sanctuary Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    great guide
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    christie
  • Succubae - Dreamweaver
    Succubae - Dreamweaver Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Thanks. I didn't understand, because in french "acceleration" is used only for movement.

    I already knew that it was quadratic, my problem was to find a formula depending only of level, attack speed, growth chart value, initial level and initial attack.

    If you look at the right end of the spreadsheet, you'll see my attempts at doing that. I put the attack values at different levels for different pets. I used Matlab to approximate by a polynome using least squares as Solandri proposed.

    Still I couldn't find an accurate enough equation using only the variables listed before.
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    .5*A*((X-S)^2) + I*(X-S)+ C

    A is the acceleration value which, depending on the pet family/sub-family, ranges from .3 to .5.

    X is the level you want to know

    S is the first known level

    I is the first known change

    C is the known Attack at level S

    There's an error here. It would be true if it was continuous. If you take the result at S+1, you should find I+C, but with your equation you find .5*A + I + C.
    Thus a more correct equation is :
    .5*A*((X-S)^2) + (I-.5*A)*(X-S)+ C

    That said, we should be able to find both I and A using only the variables I listed before.

    In the japanese site there was an approximate equation of the attack, but I couldn't understand it well enough to use it.
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Values for A that I think I've figured out, roughly:

    Golems: .5

    Cactopods: .5

    Scorpions: .5

    Land Undines: .33

    Minkii: .3

    Jaden Qingfu : .33

    Oddfoot: ~.29

    Cats: ~.38

    Turtle: .44 or .45 one of the two

    Eldergoth Marksman: .5

    Here's the growth chart value for the pets you listed:
    Golems : 6
    Cactopods : 3
    Scorpions : 6
    Land undines : 3
    Minkii : 3
    Qingfu : 4
    Oddfoot : 3
    Cats : 4 (there are 3 families of cat, this is the lowest one)
    Turtles : 4

    Again, these are listed int the spreadsheet.
    I tried to fit these numbers with
    A = (a*GrowthChartValue+b)/Atkspeed
    where a and b are constants, but it didn't work well for every families. Look in the spreadsheet.
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Some pet families have multiple sub-families, like the wolves which has at least three distinct families: Darkbreed, Sharptooth, and Guardian which should have their own attack acceleration value.
    There's 4 families of wolves. It's in the spreadsheet ;)
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Also, those values are estimates, and to pull all of the initial values from the spreadsheet will take a while.
    As I said, it's more or less done at the end of the spreadsheet. It was only a draft, so there might be errors.



    One last thing about dps and peak values. I understand the psychological approach, but I still think that the damage part of skills and natural hit is all included in the dps. If the damage from the skill is more important that normal hits, then the dps including skills will be greater. I see it as an indicator. But that's only numbers applied to a game, so... have fun !
  • Obsessed - Heavens Tear
    Obsessed - Heavens Tear Posts: 670 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Succubae - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    One last thing about dps and peak values. I understand the psychological approach, but I still think that the damage part of skills and natural hit is all included in the dps. If the damage from the skill is more important that normal hits, then the dps including skills will be greater. I see it as an indicator. But that's only numbers applied to a game, so... have fun !

    Did you miss my other post completly, or were you too busy being on an egotistical high, and ignored it alltogether. Pvp dps, calculated below, scorpion wins.(thats with ONLY FR, and assuming someone would get FR on a herc [not lkely]) Also in pvp pets get knocked back or kited, people generally dont sit there taking beatings of normal attacks. I'm done with this thread, been trying to help and make discussion, and I just get looked down upon.

    Obsessed - Heavens Tear wrote:
    As Solandri said, spike damage is more threatening. Also where hercs main dps comes from is normal attacks, while scorpions is through skills. Now factor in Flesh Ream not getting reduced(most say reduced 75%? not sure actual pvp reduction), but normal attacks do.Also for the sake of FR only the bleed is not reduced so its 1normal atk reduced + 2unreduced.

    10sec dps with FR in pvp:
    Lv 90Herc: 1FR + 7normal attacks(reduced 75%) = 6012 + 4676 = 10688
    Lv 90Scorpion: 1FR + 5normal attacks(reduced 75%) = 7506 + 4170 = 11676

    Thats not even factoring the fact that nobody gets FR for hercules...

    My point was Patk is more important for a pvp pet then dps, since FR is your main killer in pvp.
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    I said "at least", not only, and I don't need someone nit-picking that, or anything else about that post.


    You may continue to quibble about it, but I'm removing those posts.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Just_cool - Lost City
    Just_cool - Lost City Posts: 372 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Succubae - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Pet ranking using stats and maths


    Top 10 Mdef :
    Baby Hercules
    Armored Bear
    Shaodu Cub
    Frogling
    Astral Beetle (Hept-, Pent-, Quadr-)
    Rhinodrake (Billabong, Boondock, Plainswalker)
    Tuskmoor (Plainswalker, Riverside, Doft)
    Carapest Terror
    Qingfu (Emerald, Jaden, Verdant)
    Guardian Wolf
    u've just missed the most important, Phoenix has the best m def though....
    IGN: JusT_CooL
    Server: Lost City
    Guild: ex-Conqueror
    __________________________

    Follow the example of good GMing :D
    [SIGPIC]http://photos1.hi5.com/0044/475/618/k97TDv475618-02.jpg[/SIGPIC]
  • Desolate - Lost City
    Desolate - Lost City Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Just_cool - Lost City wrote: »
    u've just missed the most important, Phoenix has the best m def though....

    The OP is only using land type pets for the rankings.
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Great job, however it is somewhat missleading.

    For the choices of which is the best attack pet, you use dps (damage over time), however, for best defense you use spike damage, taking into consideration HP and damage reduction. Now, even a 1% damage reduction can be better than 100 more HP, if the fight last long enough or if you getting hit by multiple mobs. The only time HP/Def should be considered is against spike damage, which, you don't believe is a good way to measure damage, according to how hard you have been fighitng the people that have pointed that out...

    That really means there should be 2 lists. A PVE and a PVP list (or a damage over time/tank over time and a spike damage/spike tank).

    For the list of fastest land pet, using the lowest level in the family makes no sense. Eventhough attack, defense and HP grow with the pet's level, movement speed does not, so I think if you going to make a list for the fastest land pet, it really should list the name of that pet, not just the lowest in the family. For example the Orchid Petali has a speed of 9.4 m/s which is faster than the list Hexxkiss one.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • poisonoaks
    poisonoaks Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Thanks so much for posting this information. I don't come to the boards very often, but I'm glad to find good information when I do.

    I found it interesting that the Qingfu made much a strong showing in all of the catagories. It appears to be one of the best all-around non-rare pets listed. Crystalline Magmite is nice of course, but really lacks the MDef.
  • Maciaveli - Lost City
    Maciaveli - Lost City Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Great! Lots of information here. b:pleased
    *************************************
    Main Character: Nicolanis; 8x Venomancer - The Best No-Nix Robe User On Lost City(Not Much Competition There Though) b:victory

    Faction: Harvester b:shocked

    Current Reputation:- 50xx/200,000 Wearing Rank 4 Chest Armorb:dirty
    *************************************
  • Vienna - Dreamweaver
    Vienna - Dreamweaver Posts: 71 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    I quess depends a lot how much are you willing to pay for a pet. On the end are Golems great freeware pets, easy to get for every veno. A lot of people asking if legendary pet's and also rare pets are worth they coins. I have a Shaodu Cub, with Bash & Flesh Ream on max. for his lvl ( lvl 3 ). Yes he is overall better as a golem, but if he is so much better to pay for him - a lvl 20 bear = 600k ( On my server under 900k no chance ), + efforts to lvl him up + skills easy arround 1m for lvl 3 skills or more in higher lvl's from a Golem it's another question. For me it was worth, because golem was to big for me, and sometimes he started to loose agro ( with bash 3 ). But to be honest it was really a lot of efforts to lvl up my bear + a lot of coins for skills ( i have tame it by myself ) and on the end he isn't lightyears better as golem. I'm sure the same would be if i would pay 20m for an Hercules and compare it my tuned bear. I'm sure Hercules would be better, but he won't be lightyears better as my tuned bear and for 20m + efforts.....+ that my bear looks way more cuter as every other pet is 20M really worth ?. For me for sure not, but for some people he is.
  • Surfer_Rosa - Sanctuary
    Surfer_Rosa - Sanctuary Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited April 2009
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    Vienna - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I quess depends a lot how much are you willing to pay for a pet. On the end are Golems great freeware pets, easy to get for every veno. A lot of people asking if legendary pet's and also rare pets are worth they coins. I have a Shaodu Cub, with Bash & Flesh Ream on max. for his lvl ( lvl 3 ). Yes he is overall better as a golem, but if he is so much better to pay for him - a lvl 20 bear = 600k ( On my server under 900k no chance ), + efforts to lvl him up + skills easy arround 1m for lvl 3 skills or more in higher lvl's from a Golem it's another question. For me it was worth, because golem was to big for me, and sometimes he started to loose agro ( with bash 3 ). But to be honest it was really a lot of efforts to lvl up my bear + a lot of coins for skills ( i have tame it by myself ) and on the end he isn't lightyears better as golem. I'm sure the same would be if i would pay 20m for an Hercules and compare it my tuned bear. I'm sure Hercules would be better, but he won't be lightyears better as my tuned bear and for 20m + efforts.....+ that my bear looks way more cuter as every other pet is 20M really worth ?. For me for sure not, but for some people he is.
    I'm not really sure how relevant this is to the discussion... Herc has overwhelming advantages over the Shadou Cub, i'm not sure i can ballpark it to astronomical units (Herc is no Dr. Manhattan) but we are talking Darth Vader vs R2 here.
  • Succubae - Dreamweaver
    Succubae - Dreamweaver Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Great job, however it is somewhat missleading.

    For the choices of which is the best attack pet, you use dps (damage over time), however, for best defense you use spike damage, taking into consideration HP and damage reduction. Now, even a 1% damage reduction can be better than 100 more HP, if the fight last long enough or if you getting hit by multiple mobs. The only time HP/Def should be considered is against spike damage, which, you don't believe is a good way to measure damage, according to how hard you have been fighitng the people that have pointed that out...

    That really means there should be 2 lists. A PVE and a PVP list (or a damage over time/tank over time and a spike damage/spike tank).
    Where did you see that I use spike damage for the def score? The def score does not depend on damage, even if there are multiple mobs. It just merges damage reduction and HP. The examples are here only to help understanding my point.

    The list are also only examples. If you want other rankings, download the file and try for youself, this is the point of having a spreadsheet...
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    For the list of fastest land pet, using the lowest level in the family makes no sense. Eventhough attack, defense and HP grow with the pet's level, movement speed does not, so I think if you going to make a list for the fastest land pet, it really should list the name of that pet, not just the lowest in the family. For example the Orchid Petali has a speed of 9.4 m/s which is faster than the list Hexxkiss one.

    Once again: the list are also only examples. If you want other rankings, download the file and try for youself, this is the point of having a spreadsheet...

    Movement speet growth with level, but the same for every pet: you gain 0.1 m/s at level 10, 20, 30, 40...
    But I agree the fastest pets are the highest in the family. I may consider to change this ranking.
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Succubae - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Where did you see that I use spike damage for the def score? The def score does not depend on damage, even if there are multiple mobs. It just merges damage reduction and HP. The examples are here only to help understanding my point.

    The list are also only examples. If you want other rankings, download the file and try for youself, this is the point of having a spreadsheet...



    Once again: the list are also only examples. If you want other rankings, download the file and try for youself, this is the point of having a spreadsheet...

    Movement speet growth with level, but the same for every pet: you gain 0.1 m/s at level 10, 20, 30, 40...
    But I agree the fastest pets are the highest in the family. I may consider to change this ranking.

    By merging the two you are describing spike damage tanking, and as you stated, since the score does not depend on damage, you really only looking how much can that pet sustain in one hit.

    When you look at dot tanking, def is always better than HP, unless the difference in HP is Huge, or at least big enough to mean one can survive one hit. If a mob hits you for 1000 damage every 3 secs, and the fight lasts 10 minutes, and the difference in HP between 2 mobs is 500HP, but only 1% def difference. Which mob soaks up more damage? That 1% represents 2000 damaged soaked up, so you can say that it soaked up 1500 more damage. The "only" 1% is 3 times better than the 500HP extra.

    For PVP, you want the highest possible score merging HP and Defenses, since fights dont usualy last long enough. However, for pve and boss tanking, Def is far more important.

    Obviously this is not saying you are wrong and I am right or that I wrong and you are right, it is just another view on the subject. Ultimaly is up to each person to decide what is more important to them.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Zolex - Lost City
    Zolex - Lost City Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Succubae - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Pet ranking using stats and maths


    ~-oOo-~

    What's the best magical def pet ? Is it better to have high armor or high HP ? What are the fastest pets ?
    All (well, almost) your questions about numbers answered now !

    I created a spreadsheet (thank you Openoffice) listing most pets you can tame in the game, their growing charts and their base stats. I included the growing formulas, so that it's possible to have pet stats at any level. (I couldn't do that with the Patk, because no one found the exact formula yet. And believe me, I tried.)

    ~-oOo-~

    Now, how do I use it ?
    Well, it's time for you to find the sort option. You can sort by anything you want, but you should try :
    - Overall Def Score (this one includes dodge even if it's experimental)
    - Pdef Score (the one with dodge is still experimental)
    - Mdef score
    - Dps at lvl 90 with Bash
    - Moving speed
    The score thing is explained later.
    You can change the level considered on the second sheet (labelled config) in B1. Pay attention, the stats will be right only for pets which have a tame level lower than the level you choose. Don't check Magmite stats at level 5...
    There are holes in my data : this concerns mostly pets with red names. Do not blindly take numbers as they are, for example a moving speed of 0.8 doen't mean that the pet is very slow, but it means that I don't have the moving speed when tamed. Also there can be roundoff errors, but that's not really a problem because the difference won't be noticeable ingame.

    ~-oOo-~

    Now, what about this 'score' thing ?
    The def score takes into account both HP and armor. The base idea is simple : what would be the equivalent HP if the pet has no armor, but with the same survivability ?
    Let's say a pet has a Mdef which reduce the damage taken by 50% and 1000 HP. It would be as strong if he has 0 armor but twice the HP, 2000 (well, not for your heal...). 75% reduction and 1000 HP is the same thing as having 4000 HP, and so on.

    Another way of thinking about it would be :

    ~-oOo-~

    So where's your magical table ?
    Here it is !

    ~-oOo-~

    You document is too big, I'm lost. Can you resume it ?
    Okay, here are some top tens in decreasing order. Only for land, non-ranged pets. And only the lower tame level of the family. And at level 90.

    Top 10 overall def :
    Baby Hercules
    Shaodu Cub
    Armored Bear
    Astral Beetle (Hept-, Pent-, Quadr-)
    Crystalline Magmite
    Qingfu (Emerald, Jaden, Verdant)
    Tuskmoor (Plainswalker, Riverside, Doft)
    Tauroc (Angler, Logger, Stevedore)
    Rhinodrake (Billabong, Boondock, Plainswalker)
    Frogling

    Top 10 Pdef (without dodge as it's still experimental) :
    Baby Hercules
    Crystalline Magmite
    Armored Bear
    Shaodu Cub
    Qingfu (Emerald, Jaden, Verdant)
    Astral Beetle (Hept-, Pent-, Quadr-)
    Tauroc (Angler, Logger, Stevedore)
    Tuskmoor (Plainswalker, Riverside, Doft)
    Minkii (Mongoose, Redtail, Sable)
    Overclocked Mechrab

    Top 10 Mdef :
    Baby Hercules
    Armored Bear
    Shaodu Cub
    Frogling
    Astral Beetle (Hept-, Pent-, Quadr-)
    Rhinodrake (Billabong, Boondock, Plainswalker)
    Tuskmoor (Plainswalker, Riverside, Doft)
    Carapest Terror
    Qingfu (Emerald, Jaden, Verdant)
    Guardian Wolf

    Top 10 Dps, including Bash lvl 5 (Be warned, I don't have all the numbers ! The last one don't have a high attack) :
    Baby Hercules
    Scorpion (Pollen, Pup, Varicose)
    Crystalline Magmite
    Antelope Pup
    Nine Tail Foxie
    Bloodthirsty Adalwolf
    Kowlin
    Cuddly Pup
    Qingfu (Emerald, Jaden, Verdant)
    Frogling

    Top 11 ('cause there are ex aequo) Moving speed (Hey, where's the Hercule ? The baby is too fat, he's only 13th) :
    Kowlin
    Nine Tail Foxie
    Cuddly Pup
    Petalii Hexkiss
    Clever Cactopod
    Steelhide Grimalkin
    Huggy Hare
    Armored Bear
    Tabby Plumdrop
    Mastiff of the Great Divide
    Guardian Wolf

    ~-oOo-~

    This is too simple, I simply don't believe it. So, where's the trick ?
    There's no trick, but there are limitations, of course.
    - The HP recovery has not been taken into account, because 1) I don't see how to do it and 2) No one has the numbers.
    - Actually, lots of def is better than lots of HP, because it has the same survivability and you can heal faster, thus saving mana and time. If your heal is 500 and you pet has 1000 HP and 75% damage reduction, you'll need 2 heals, while with 4000 HP and no amor, you'll need 8 heals... But I don't see how to include it in the sheet. You can have some clues by sorting by HP.
    - Hit rate (not hit speed) has not been taken into account, because it strongly depends on the opponent. But it has an effect for sure.

    What are all these formulas you're using ? Did you find them yourself ?
    I found almost all of them, yes. I saw on some sites that some of them where found by others too, so they shouldn't be too bad! ;-)

    Now, here they are :
    Score :
    - PSurvivabilityScore = HP / ( 1 - %ReducFromPdef ) / ( 1 - %Evade )
    %ReducFromPdef is the percent damage reduction from pet's armor (see later for the formula). Actually it's a ratio, between 0 and 1.
    (1-%ReducFromPdef) is the ratio of the damage the pet actually receives.
    HP / ( 1 - %ReducFromPdef ) is the equivalent HP the pet would have if it had no armor and the same survivability.
    As I stated before : Let's say a pet has a Pdef which reduce the damage taken by 50% and 1000 HP. It would be as strong if he has 0 armor but twice the HP, 2000 (well, not for your heal...). 75% reduction and 1000 HP is the same thing as having 4000 HP, and so on.
    Same goes for evasion.
    - MSurvivabilityScore = HP / ( 1 - %ReducFromMdef )
    Same here as Pdef, but without evasion. I guess that's why the average Mdef is higher than Pdef: you don't evade magic. Of course, 'cause it's magic!
    - SurvivabilityScore = ( PSurvivabilityScore + MsurvivabilityScore ) /2
    The mean, simply.

    %Reduction:
    - %ReducFromPdef = Pdef / ( Pdef + 40 * Lvl )
    - %ReducFromMdef = Mdef / ( Mdef + 40 * Lvl )
    - %Evade = Evasion / (Evasion + 40 * Lvl ) / 2 (?) seems to work, if anyone can confirm...

    Dps:
    - Dps = Patk * HitSpeed + BashDps
    - BashDps step by step:
    BashDps = %BashDamage * Patk * BashInterval
    BashDps = %BashDamage * Patk * HitSpeed / Bash#HitInterval
    BashDps = %BashDamage * Patk * HitSpeed / ceil( BashCooldown * HitSpeed )

    GrowthChart:     (by level)
    - HPInc = 20 + 2.5*pts
    - P/MdefInc = (160 + 20*pts) / 3 = 53.33 + 6.67*pts
    - HitInc = (40 + 5*pts) / 3 = 13.33 + 1.67*pts
    - EvasionInc = (80 + 10*pts)/9 = 8.89 + 1.11*pts
    - Speed = +0.1 at each lvl x0

    ~-oOo-~

    On which web sites did you find all these informations ?
    - http://snowbloom.110mb.com/pi.htm
    Screenshots, growth charts and locations of all pets lvl 1 -> 60+

    - http://perfectworld.clanfree.net/familiergraphique.htm
    http://perfectworld.clanfree.net/pet1a10.htm
    http://perfectworld.clanfree.net/compapet.htm
    Growth charts numeric values, starting stats, screenshots, comparisons (in French)

    - http://kanbisekai.wikiwiki.jp/
    Like the previous site, but more accurate and more complete. (in Japanese)
    I used http://74.125.39.132/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&langpair=ja|en&u=http://kanbisekai.wikiwiki.jp/%3F%25CD%25C5%25C0%25BA%25CD%25D1%25A5%25DA%25A5%25C3%25A5%25C8&usg=ALkJrhhV4jGky5Yhxc77L6xKXNnBMyikfg
    and Yahoo Translate to understand it.

    - http://www.ecatomb.net/petstat.php
    Pet stats at 90 (seems to come from the japanese or french site, but with PWI names)

    ~-oOo-~

    What pet do you personnaly use ?
    I used a Sable Minkii for a long time, then I changed server and wanted to try something else. It was fast, rather good defense, average attack, and a funny animation when hitting.
    I currently use a Pentastral Beetle which has lots of HP and defense, and its color fits well with the fox form I use. I just tamed a red Weeping Scorpion Queen as a dps pet, but I still have to try it.

    Yes, I tried the Magmite. And hated it : 1) everyone has it (that was before Herc existed), 2) too big, I couldn't clic on mobs, 3) too damn slow ! And 4) everyone already had it.
    I had a very cute Snow Hare (don't you think its noise is like one of a camera? It makes me want to take screenshots ;-) ) but I didn't find it very useful, apart in towns...
    For an air pet I used both a Petite Sawfly ('cause I'm French) and a Pinnaer Foxwing ('cause I use fox form), but as there's not much air quests, I can't tell a lot about them...

    I'm planning on trying an Antelope Pup, because it's cute and has a strong attack. An Eldergoth Marksmann one day, maybe...

    ~-oOo-~

    You bloody idiot, you made a stupid mistake over there ! Do you think I wouldn't see it ?
    Oops, sorry, I'll try to correct it fast... Just tell me where and what !

    By the way, constructive comments are appreciated ! Thanks.

    ~-oOo-~

    Edit: Some more explanations about the formulas. Thanks Solandri !
    Edit: Correction of the confusion between Patk and Dps. Thanks Obsessed !

    Can u tell me what differences are between Crystalline and Volcanic magmite? Or which is better and why? Thanx
  • Afet - Heavens Tear
    Afet - Heavens Tear Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Zolex - Lost City wrote: »
    Can u tell me what differences are between Crystalline and Volcanic magmite? Or which is better and why? Thanx


    The only real difference is the skills they start with.


    Crystalline starts with Bash 2 and Sandblow 1


    Volcanic starts with Bash 1, Sandblow 1 and Tough 1


    If you intend to keep the golem well past level 40, and intend to tank bosses with it, then go with the Volcanic because it comes with Tough saving some coin in the long run. If you only intend to keep the golem only until you replace it with a herc then the Crystalline should do fine.


    I have a Volcanic with Bash 3, Sand blow 1, Tough 1 and Threaten 1, and he tanks like a champ.
  • IceJazmin - Heavens Tear
    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,206 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Afet - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    The only real difference is the skills they start with.


    Crystalline starts with Bash 2 and Sandblow 1


    Volcanic starts with Bash 1, Sandblow 1 and Tough 1


    If you intend to keep the golem well past level 40, and intend to tank bosses with it, then go with the Volcanic because it comes with Tough saving some coin in the long run. If you only intend to keep the golem only until you replace it with a herc then the Crystalline should do fine.


    I have a Volcanic with Bash 3, Sand blow 1, Tough 1 and Threaten 1, and he tanks like a champ.

    Use Crystaline. Why settle for the second best?
    You can always buy skills, but you cannot buy stats. And crystaline has marginaly better stats.... very very very very very very very very small difference, but still better.
    Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.
  • Afet - Heavens Tear
    Afet - Heavens Tear Posts: 42 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Use Crystaline. Why settle for the second best?
    You can always buy skills, but you cannot buy stats. And crystaline has marginaly better stats.... very very very very very very very very small difference, but still better.

    Second best would be settling for a Torgirn Puppet, or a Torgirn Brave with noticeably lower stats. The difference between the Crystalline and the Volcanic isn't even "marginal", it's so small as to be unnoticeable, or, to use a better word "infinitesimal".


    Know how big the gap is at level 90? ~0.1%


    As I said, the only real difference is what skills they come with.
  • darkcecil
    darkcecil Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    sadly to say is that i still use a darkbreed wolfkin. i need to upgrade to something else.
  • Tearvalerin - Sanctuary
    Tearvalerin - Sanctuary Posts: 3,787 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Zolex - Lost City wrote: »
    Can u tell me what differences are between Crystalline and Volcanic magmite? Or which is better and why? Thanx
    lol you didnt have to quote the entire guide >>

    the stats are so minimalistically different that it doesnt matter, but the volcanic is better due to having an extra tanking skill that saves lives.why invest a ton in a pet, when you can minimize spending :D.
  • Iccyfoxx - Heavens Tear
    Iccyfoxx - Heavens Tear Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    Magmites are like bellybuttons, cuz everone's got one! Thanks for the guide! Really helped.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Thanks to ForsakenX for the sig.
    Killing with flair.
    "Suck my Magmite!"-xXFoxxyXx
  • Esparagondaa - Sanctuary
    Esparagondaa - Sanctuary Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Options
    just 1 warning abaut this
    Top 10 overall def :
    Baby Hercules
    Shaodu Cub
    Armored Bear
    Astral Beetle (Hept-, Pent-, Quadr-)
    Crystalline Magmite
    Qingfu (Emerald, Jaden, Verdant)
    Tuskmoor (Plainswalker, Riverside, Doft)
    Tauroc (Angler, Logger, Stevedore)
    Rhinodrake (Billabong, Boondock, Plainswalker)
    Frogling

    Top 10 Pdef (without dodge as it's still experimental) :
    Baby Hercules
    Crystalline Magmite
    Armored Bear
    Shaodu Cub
    Qingfu (Emerald, Jaden, Verdant)
    Astral Beetle (Hept-, Pent-, Quadr-)
    Tauroc (Angler, Logger, Stevedore)
    Tuskmoor (Plainswalker, Riverside, Doft)
    Minkii (Mongoose, Redtail, Sable)
    Overclocked Mechrab

    Top 10 Mdef :
    Baby Hercules
    Armored Bear
    Shaodu Cub
    Frogling
    Astral Beetle (Hept-, Pent-, Quadr-)
    Rhinodrake (Billabong, Boondock, Plainswalker)
    Tuskmoor (Plainswalker, Riverside, Doft)
    Carapest Terror
    Qingfu (Emerald, Jaden, Verdant)
    Guardian Wolf


    if armord bear has higher Pdef and Mdef then shadou cub he has higer overall defencb:byeb:victoryb:chuckle
  • radianter
    radianter Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Options
    i'm sorry perhaps this is little bit out of topic i cannot find the answer anywhereb:cry

    my question is which air pet that has the best for tanking ??
    i cannot decide .. b:surrender
  • Ladydeadlock - Heavens Tear
    Ladydeadlock - Heavens Tear Posts: 366 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Options
    windwalking piggy... rare pet though.
    *Semi retired*
  • radianter
    radianter Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    ooh okay thanks !!b:victory
  • ThreeThree - Harshlands
    ThreeThree - Harshlands Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    What do the red names in the spreadsheet mean? I don't understand.
  • Teh_fishey - Dreamweaver
    Teh_fishey - Dreamweaver Posts: 552 Arc User
    edited May 2009
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    And why don't you mention the phoniex seeing as the herc and the nix are the 2 top most powerful pets. You didn't talk much about attack.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Note: No thats not me... I stole that from the interwebs b:chuckle
    BTW.... YOU ROCK FORSAKENX <3

    I like to think of myself as a dog, I can be cute and cuddly but sniff people's butts and get away with it ><>

    Warlock recruiting lvl 70+ on the Dreamweaver Server.
    PM an officer for an invite.

    b:heartb:flowerb:faint
  • Nightfaii - Harshlands
    Nightfaii - Harshlands Posts: 118 Arc User
    edited May 2009
    Options
    for DPS, check out the acephalid death knight lvl 70.
    It has more than the magmite I think.

    and comes with bash lvl 4
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Nevedita - Dreamweaver
    Nevedita - Dreamweaver Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Options
    Ah! Thank you for this guide! People in my old faction thought I was crazy for using my Quad beetle king ... but knowing that it ranks in the top ten best overall def, reassures my sanity :P
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    >>Check us out at "kinetic.co.nr"! Join the movement today!
  • Kyyubi - Dreamweaver
    Kyyubi - Dreamweaver Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Options
    Nice work, I currently use the magmite and love it for its physical deffence but I agree with you completely. To many people use it, so I came here to see my other options. Thanks for the info. b:victory
  • Budika - Sanctuary
    Budika - Sanctuary Posts: 177 Arc User
    edited June 2009
    Options
    The difference between Crystaline and Volcanic is 100k more for crystal and 10k less spirit. Oh and ~.1% difference in overall stats. (so you save ~100k coins (never know might be able to find tough in auction house or just do Dragon Temple for pet skills). If we're talking lvl 17/18 here that 100k difference isn't much compared to the 10k spirit. But it's up to whoever is playing the character. For Volcanic Magmite you need 2 more lvl's before you can get bash 2 (paying 200k for tame book and 10k spirit).

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