Overpriced gold and items?

Anajna - Sanctuary · March 2009

I bet many will read the title and think this is a rant about how all the good stuff in game is far too expensive, and how greedy the gold sellers are and and and...

But actually, it is rather about how hypocritical many are complaining about the gold prices, when most of those complaining are not the ones going out to work to earn money, which then in turn gets carried to this game, so that this game can remain free for many who can't or won't pay towards it. I wonder how many of those who complain play this game for free, or deposite very little, but of course find nothing wrong with it when those who actually invest real life money into PWI get less and less return for the money that outside of PWI doesn't change in value. Real life earners do not get payed more outside of PWI when gold prices drop within this game, their income remains the same, but still many ask for the gold prices to drop so that they can get items cheaper - then point at gold or boutique item sellers and accuse them of greed O.O

I do not blame the individual for wanting everything cheap for as little effort as possible. The 1st world community is brought up on that concept, which in turn is leading to many 3rd world communities suffering greatly, as someone ALWAYS has to foot the bill somehow. The 1st world consumes horrendous amounts of chocolate, the coca beans often harvested by children, enslaved and mistreated, who have never tasted a chocolate bar in their life... And the list is endless, from clothes to many other goods, harvested, manufactued by the poor, so that the ones who are already living in luxury can continue to want more and more, always wanting it cheaper and cheaper...

All internet games are reflections of society, as the gamers carry their attitudes and views with them where ever they go, and that includes the internet. Thus games like PWI reflect a lot of our greed and ignorance too. Developers need to earn money to pay their bills as well, so it is almost impossible to find any game for totally free, or at least nothing which has the quality of a game like PWI. Someone has to pay the developers, and in PWI's case this is happening via buying PWI gold with real life cash. Without those depositing - there would be no PWI, it is as simple as that. Do those deposing therefore deserve a return for they real life cash? Yes, they most definitely do, and the moment they feel they do not get enough return for it anymore - they most likely will stop depositing, or deposit far less, and then gold prices would rise due to that...

So, instead of complaining about that one has to play hard (because if one feels one is 'working' for one's ingame coins, then one has completely misunderstood the concept of gaming o.O), it should be remembered boutique items and gold have to be bought first with real life cash, cash someone has to WORK for, not play for. Do not accuse them of greed before not having taken a long hard look into the mirror, to check on one's own attitude and why one wants things cheap, and whether one actually cares whether someone else has to first put the effort in for oneself to get it cheaper...

My first mount (Dark Charger) I payed entirely with coins I had grinded together, and it felt great when I finally could go and collect it. Getting everything we want cheap, takes away from the feeling of achievment. In truth we are betraying ourselves of something important to happiness... We end wanting more and more, because there is a hole within us we try desperaly to fill, not realizing the way we try to fill it doesn't work. More and more, cheaper and cheaper, leads only to wanting even more even cheaper. It is endless

But saving up, aiming and having to put effort into reaching our goals - that can lead to true satisfaction. What comes easy never gets appreciated as much as what we had to wait for, save up for, put true effort into achieving. Do not wish for a world where everything is easy for you to get hold of - instead cherrish the challenges, and stay aware of the efforts others put in, too...

And never forget what a luxury it is to play internet games at all.
We should be grateful, not complaining all the time, when there are so many on this planet who can not share into our luxuries - and that partly because we are too ignorant and to self-obessed to care for their lack of everything that we so take for granted...

Not meant to ruin anybody's game enjoyment btw, just felt like writing my view down after hearing complaints over and over about ingame prices.

Take care and have fun playing a beautiful game ^_^

shinigamideathnote · March 2009

Well said. ^__^

Zoe - Heavens Tear · March 2009

Prices have no reason to go up. The sellers themselves set the price of gold from the start. They chose to sell for that amount. They have no reason to ever go for more.

CeliaZ - Sanctuary · March 2009

Amen to this. Very, very well said. I hope everyone that plays this game reads this, and everyone realize how lucky we are that we are able to play something like this.

tatakairyu · March 2009

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Prices have no reason to go up. The sellers themselves set the price of gold from the start. They chose to sell for that amount. They have no reason to ever go for more.

The longer the game is up, the more in game coin there is. The more in game coin there is the less worth it has.

Inflation my little kiddy.

Zoe - Heavens Tear · March 2009

tatakairyu wrote: »

The longer the game is up, the more in game coin there is. The more in game coin there is the less worth it has.

Inflation my little kiddy.

Inflation does not exist. Inflation is a greedy persons lame excuse to charge more. Prices only go up based on greed this is coming from someone who would sell gold but does not have a job at the moment. Higher prices would benefit me but I want them low.

tatakairyu · March 2009

Oh, Zoe says inflation doesn't exist. So it must be true lol.

Greedy people? I buy my own gold and I don't care if lazy people don't like to work for their items.

Why not just put everything in an npc shop at 1 coin please, I'm sure the lazy people would love that.

XPapewaiox - Lost City · March 2009

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Inflation does not exist. Inflation is a greedy persons lame excuse to charge more. Prices only go up based on greed this is coming from someone who would sell gold but does not have a job at the moment. Higher prices would benefit me but I want them low.

...If inflation doesn't exist, please tell the President about this, and everyone with a PhD in economics, and everyone who's ever graduated high school.

Prices are set at the start of the server, and then get adjusted due to supply and demand. Why should I sell something for less than it's worth? If someone won't buy it for a particular price, than I'm being greedy. If people buy it at a higher less, I"m hurting myself if I sell it for less.

Now, I know since it's Zoe, facts and logic go right out the window, but I believe in second/third/nth chances. Besides, she may very well be the best troll on this board lol

Zoe - Heavens Tear · March 2009

I've been on both sides, the buyer and the seller. The players in another mmo got so greedy I stopped selling because they wanted to charge insane amounts.

Think about the buyers, and new players. Would you keep playing this game if you saw everything priced 10x more than it is now? I don't think so.

XPapewaiox - Lost City · March 2009

Certainly, the hyperinflation of gold during the valantine's event was disastrous, but the market was artificially manipulated in a big way.

As a player, no, I wouldn't care if cash shop items were priced 10x more. I've never purchased a cash shop item, whether with gold, zhen, or coin. They are luxury items all, and complaining about the price of luxury items is... emo at best.

tatakairyu · March 2009

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've been on both sides, the buyer and the seller. The players in another mmo got so greedy I stopped selling because they wanted to charge insane amounts.

I've played that mmo you always talk about and you fail to mention how easy it is to make money in that game. Also, how in game currency doesn't help you that much in that game considering npc sell **** unlike here in Perfect world.

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Think about the buyers, and new players. Would you keep playing this game if you saw everything priced 10x more than it is now? I don't think so.

If you actually thought about what you posted then you would see either way new players get screwed.

Prices getting higher means it's harder for new players to buy things BUT if you keep prices low like they are now, high levels will buy everything out because of their excess money and they now don't need anymore gears and can stock up on cash shop.

Anajna - Sanctuary · March 2009

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Inflation does not exist. Inflation is a greedy persons lame excuse to charge more. Prices only go up based on greed this is coming from someone who would sell gold but does not have a job at the moment. Higher prices would benefit me but I want them low.

Zoe, by your own words you do not deposit currently, due to being unable, which is perfectly valid. Many are unable, and it is wonderful this game offers full enjoyment even if one is in no position to pay for it. I truly appreciate this, sharing something beautiful is a gift life can make too.

But as you are in no position at present to sell gold, it is a bit hard to tell how you would react.. as well as that earners themselves are in different positions. You will find those for who $50 takes little to nothing away from their monthly lifestyle - whilst for others it is a true consideration whether they can afford such a deposit.

Ingame economy depends on many factors. You could have some major depositers suddenly quitting for personal reasons, depositers who would have sold gold in larger quantities - and very soon if would have an effect, unless others join to take their places. Also real life ecenomy can have an impact, as well as many other things. 'Greed' of gold sellers I'd pesonally would say is actually the least impacting, as they hardly come together to discuss prices they wish to set. Prices are set by demand and offer. An item, rare but wanted by many - will sell for far more than an item dropped a plenty by mobs or available through other means. Is the one with the rare item greedy selling for a higher price?
Well, I'd say depends on the price they set, but astronomically unreasonable priced items tend not to sell. Buyers have the last word on that.

But if now (as I heard advice on the pixel streets >.>) all those who buy gold with ingame coins, would boycott the 'overpriced' gold, it could also very quickly backfire, as some real cash investors would simply say "for what shall I deposit? I just won't anymore", and then you have less gold on the market. To an extreme -if all gold sellers would say "for what? I don't get enough return for my real life cash anymore"- you'd be left with no game at all...

In essence it really comes down to 'why' we want gold low. What effect has it?
The effect is that we can buy more with our ingame coins (yay! *dances on a mountain of pixel items I'd feel I have not played hard enough for*) whilst those who sell gold will come out with less coins and wonder why they do it at all.

Greed is to want more and more, and that cuts both ways - for the sellers just as much as for the buyers.

But.. be more willing to save and be patient - that would equal the market far faster then gold sellers selling gold for cheaper, as the latter would only lead to more and more players wanting more and more, with unsatiable (sp? O.O) hunger, and in the end nothing would have value anymore

Whilst.. if gold is high enough, 'better' items pricy - then we have goals left to reach, dreams to aim for, and those wonderful moments where we finally can 'buy' something that still does mean something to us personally - as well as the PWI market

Just saw Zoe's last post--

Zoe - think about why players feel the 'need' to have all those fancy things?
If we want fancy things, then we should be willing to pay for that luxury. The game is very playable without all the fancy things - the fancy things just make it 'prettier', easier, or raise someone's feeling of 'status'.

I adore my pixel clothes, have heaps - but I pay for them willingly, and often pay buy-outs even though I know certain things won't be bid on (I got my own set of taste :P), but I feel it fair to the seller, as at some point those clothes did cost real life cash - and for that someone WORKED, not played ^^

Zoe - Heavens Tear · March 2009

If prices go up I stop selling on the spot if I am. I will continue to sell at 100k per gold regardless, then some greedy moron will buy it just to sell it for more. Which is why I stop selling.

I know what its like to be able to afford anything, I know what its like to be able to afford nothing. I want to give the new players a chance to start with. I will ALWAYS sell for low.

XPapewaiox - Lost City · March 2009

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If prices go up I stop selling on the spot if I am. ... some greedy moron will buy it just to sell it for more. Which is why I stop selling.

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I will ALWAYS sell for low.

So you do sell low all the time, or when you think the price is fair? Notice you don't sell an item lower than it's value, you keep it. You're greedy too. You'll only let the item go for a price you deem reasonable, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN THE GAME.

Zoe - Heavens Tear · March 2009

XPapewaiox - Lost City wrote: »

So you do sell low all the time, or when you think the price is fair? Notice you don't sell an item lower than it's value, you keep it. You're greedy too. You'll only let the item go for a price you deem reasonable, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE IN THE GAME.

I will only sell something for a price I would be willing to buy it for. Which is typically much lower than everyone else is selling it for. Why do you think my auctions are sold so fast and I have 10 million coins now? I sell a lot for a little.b:victory

I will ALWAYS sell low, regardless of what anyone else is selling for.

Saitada - Sanctuary · March 2009

The cost of gold on Sanctuary is still higher now than it was prior to the Valentines event exploit. It was artificially raised during the event and hasn't dropped back to it's pre-VD levels. That is my only complaint about the prices on Sanctuary. Granted. I buy Zhen but I rarely sell it. I generally use it for myself. And I STILL think the prices are too high.

Prior to the VD event gold on Sanctuary was selling for between 106-115k per.

Your lucky now if it sells for less than 130k.

Greed pure and simple based in part on the VD event fiasco (Shoulda done a roll back and simply removed ALL the ill-gotten gains, period! Meh!), the fact that there are people still willing to pay higher than they had before the event (my feelings, probably those who profited from the event exploit and didn't get banned).

So while the other servers seem to have returned to their pre VD exploit gold selling price level. Sanctuary is still suffering unusually higher prices and it hasn't leveled back out.

It will continue until people stop buying at those prices.

I have refused to sell any gold to anyone because I think the prices are stupid high and while I could make bank doing it. I for one am not a greedy son and refuse to add fuel to the continued over pricing of gold on sanctuary.

~Saitada

Anajna - Sanctuary · March 2009

For new players, the most important is a friendly and helpful environment where other players answer questions and help with bosses.

No one stops you from selling low, Zoe, but it isn't necessarily the best for a game. Luxury items are meant to be just that - luxury. Throw gold on the market for lower and lower ingame coinage, and it will rather lead to less enjoyment than more. The 'need it all for my happiness' attitude is running real life societies into the ground, and ingame societies are no different.

*walks away from this now, having said it all already anyway*

Saitada - Sanctuary · March 2009

Anajna - Sanctuary wrote: »

*walks away from this now, having said it all already anyway*

But you never once commented on the fact that PRIOR to the VD exploit fiasco, prices for gold on Sanctuary were 106k-115k per but now are rarely ever below 130k.

That is very telling.

~Saitada

nothjingrad · March 2009

Of course factors like inflation/deflation exist. It's a ****ing economy isn't it?

Saitada - Sanctuary · March 2009

nothjingrad wrote: »

Of course factors like inflation/deflation exist. It's a ****ing economy isn't it?

The current prices on Sanctuary are a direct result of the Valentines day exploit. On VD, prior to the exploit being discovered prices were 106k-115k per gold. After the exploit was discovered of course all the prices went haywire. But after the emergency Maint.. prices NEVER returned to their former levels. So I'd say that has nothing to do with inflation, I would say it has everything to do with greed, and people who profited from the exploit that didn't get banned, still **** up the economy.

~Saitada

Anajna - Sanctuary · March 2009

I couldn't comment, Sait, as I needed something called 'sleep' in the so called physical world *smiles*

And I wonder what it is telling you, that I did not comment? *smiles some more at what appears a basic rhetoric attempt to stain me (or was it not? my apologies of thinking it may was if it wasn't)*

The prices may have not dropped fully yet to their level prior to the glitch, but how about months and months ago, when the game was still starting out? Ingame gold was higher then, and we all managed, and the game kept gaining new members by the day.

But to me personally none of that is really the point. To me it is far more about the attitude of players wanting everything cheaper and cheaper, as well as easier and easier. It is a reflection of the first world lifestyle, which takes luxory for granted, and where getting more and more 'things' has replaced the joy of getting few things, cherishing those few things as truly special, proudly remembering the effort it took to get those few things.

Have you picked up on the question, Sait, why those 'things' are 'needed'..? I may missed it in your posts, and if so, I apologize. The newest mount is a typical example, or any mount, really, in the game. These are items which make things easier, as tavelling becomes faster. Does one 'need' them, truly, to play this game? I somehow doubt it... They are luxuy items, but many will complain if they can not afford them, then grudgingly point at others who have them.

I have a few 'things' on both of my characters which make my gaming in PWI easier, but same time I am making sure that my cleric still has challenges left. I do not compare my progress nor what I 'own' to that of others. When I deposit towards this game, I mainly do so to support the developers, so that this game can stay free for those who can not deposit. So many seem to totally forget that PWI is still a business venture, it hasn't sprung into existence or runs due to just the goodness of heart of those who created it. It has to be payed for, and as such I thank gold sellers (of which I am not one) that they actually make gold and boutique items available for other players. Thought about what would happen if those who do sell gold and boutique items would stop doing so..? Yes, they get a return within this game for the real life cash they invest, but is that not deserved, as they are investing money they actually worked for, not played for within this game? Who believes they have as individuals a 'right' to tell them what their real life cash is worth within PWI? The market of demand can tell them and does tell them, but anybody accusing that set of players of greed, whilst that set of players is the one actually keeping this game on the net - to me that is hypocritical as well as ungrateful. Why do players want cheaper gold? Well, I pretty much would say it is because they wish to save and grind less for those luxury items they do not really 'need', but 'want'. Is that not greed too?

I am in the so called 'real' world a Fairtrade supporter. I believe in paying more for goods, even though it means I have less to eat, as I can not afford to have the same amount on the money I have to spend to support fairer trade for a 3rd world, whose majority of citizens do not have the luxury to worry about an ingame economy like PWI's... But I can handle less, if it means someone else may can have some of the things we take SO for granted, too.

If enough players are found willing to invest their hard earned cash into this game, gold prices will fall again, and no doubt it won't be long and the complainers will start again and then say the new lower prices are still too high, as meantime they have found other stuff they 'want', instead of cherishing what they already have, because why cherish what already hasn't been too hard to obtain?
And thus I repeat - having it a bit harder to get something isn't a bad thing. It can be a valuable lesson, and bring us more enjoyment. It can make us more appreciative, and give us a feeling of achievement. Heavens - it is a luxury to play like we do, in the first place!! I just imagine the stare of horror and bewilderment of a child harvesting cocoa beans for our chocolate bars, if we'd walk up to it and ask whether it finds PWI gold prices are too high, and whether it thinks those gold buyers are greedy. I bet it will find us greedy before all else, just for having the time of day to play and worry about our pixel items costing us too much grinding time!!

Learn to be content with less, stop looking at what others have, those even richer than ourselves (because we all are rich compared to huge parts of this world), and stop taking everything for granted, including gaming time.

I for one am glad I can play, and that I can invest the occasional real life cash into something which I am fully aware is a complete luxury. I do not take this for granted at all, and will at the same time outside of this game continue to support fairer trade as best as I can, although same time I am also fully aware I am selfish enough to spend some of what I have on my own enjoyments. But I know that I am selfish with that, and keep a close eye on it, never forgetting how good I truly have it, and that at least I should be deeply grateful for it.

We are all greedy, it is embedded into us. We are greedy just by spending our time on something that is purely there to serve our enjoyment >.> We are greedy and self-obsessing, because we have the time to worry about things that have nothing to do with bare survival, but at least we should stay aware of it, and every now and then put what worries us into relation to what worries someone who actually does struggle to survive.

And yes, I include myself into that, too. I do not exclude myself at all, as no doubt I could be doing far more selfless things with my time and money than to play and at times pay for an internet game.....

---
Edit - or to spend my time editing a post for spelling mistakes, when no doubt there are still enough left which I or ven haven't found >.<

Veno_MAN_cer - Sanctuary · March 2009

Ok, it wasn't the "Valentines Day" update, it was the "lovely new clothing" update that PWE messed up. :P

*grabs Anajna by the hand and skips off with her back into the game*

Saitada - Sanctuary · March 2009

Anajna - Sanctuary wrote: »

I couldn't comment, Sait, as I needed something called 'sleep' in the so called physical world *smiles*

And I wonder what it is telling you, that I did not comment? *smiles some more at what appears a basic rhetoric attempt to stain me (or was it not? my apologies of thinking it may was if it wasn't)*

The prices may have not dropped fully yet to their level prior to the glitch, but how about months and months ago, when the game was still starting out? Ingame gold was higher then, and we all managed, and the game kept gaining new members by the day.

But to me personally none of that is really the point. To me it is far more about the attitude of players wanting everything cheaper and cheaper, as well as easier and easier. It is a reflection of the first world lifestyle, which takes luxory for granted, and where getting more and more 'things' has replaced the joy of getting few things, cherishing those few things as truly special, proudly remembering the effort it took to get those few things.

Have you picked up on the question, Sait, why those 'things' are 'needed'..? I may missed it in your posts, and if so, I apologize. The newest mount is a typical example, or any mount, really, in the game. These are items which make things easier, as tavelling becomes faster. Does one 'need' them, truly, to play this game? I somehow doubt it... They are luxuy items, but many will complain if they can not afford them, then grudgingly point at others who have them.

I have a few 'things' on both of my characters which make my gaming in PWI easier, but same time I am making sure that my cleric still has challenges left. I do not compare my progress nor what I 'own' to that of others. When I deposit towards this game, I mainly do so to support the developers, so that this game can stay free for those who can not deposit. So many seem to totally forget that PWI is still a business venture, it hasn't sprung into existence or runs due to just the goodness of heart of those who created it. It has to be payed for, and as such I thank gold sellers (of which I am not one) that they actually make gold and boutique items available for other players. Thought about what would happen if those who do sell gold and boutique items would stop doing so..? Yes, they get a return within this game for the real life cash they invest, but is that not deserved, as they are investing money they actually worked for, not played for within this game? Who believes they have as individuals a 'right' to tell them what their real life cash is worth within PWI? The market of demand can tell them and does tell them, but anybody accusing that set of players of greed, whilst that set of players is the one actually keeping this game on the net - to me that is hypocritical as well as ungrateful. Why do players want cheaper gold? Well, I pretty much would say it is because they wish to save and grind less for those luxury items they do not really 'need', but 'want'. Is that not greed too?

I am in the so called 'real' world a Fairtrade supporter. I believe in paying more for goods, even though it means I have less to eat, as I can not afford to have the same amount on the money I have to spend to support fairer trade for a 3rd world, whose majority of citizens do not have the luxury to worry about an ingame economy like PWI's... But I can handle less, if it means someone else may can have some of the things we take SO for granted, too.

If enough players are found willing to invest their hard earned cash into this game, gold prices will fall again, and no doubt it won't be long and the complainers will start again and then say the new lower prices are still too high, as meantime they have found other stuff they 'want', instead of cherishing what they already have, because why cherish what already hasn't been too hard to obtain?
And thus I repeat - having it a bit harder to get something isn't a bad thing. It can be a valuable lesson, and bring us more enjoyment. It can make us more appreciative, and give us a feeling of achievement. Heavens - it is a luxury to play like we do, in the first place!! I just imagine the stare of horror and bewilderment of a child harvesting cocoa beans for our chocolate bars, if we'd walk up to it and ask whether it finds PWI gold prices are too high, and whether it thinks those gold buyers are greedy. I bet it will find us greedy before all else, just for having the time of day to play and worry about our pixel items costing us too much grinding time!!

Learn to be content with less, stop looking at what others have, those even richer than ourselves (because we all are rich compared to huge parts of this world), and stop taking everything for granted, including gaming time.

I for one am glad I can play, and that I can invest the occasional real life cash into something which I am fully aware is a complete luxury. I do not take this for granted at all, and will at the same time outside of this game continue to support fairer trade as best as I can, although same time I am also fully aware I am selfish enough to spend some of what I have on my own enjoyments. But I know that I am selfish with that, and keep a close eye on it, never forgetting how good I truly have it, and that at least I should be deeply grateful for it.

We are all greedy, it is embedded into us. We are greedy just by spending our time on something that is purely there to serve our enjoyment >.> We are greedy and self-obsessing, because we have the time to worry about things that have nothing to do with bare survival, but at least we should stay aware of it, and every now and then put what worries us into relation to what worries someone who actually does struggle to survive.

And yes, I include myself into that, too. I do not exclude myself at all, as no doubt I could be doing far more selfless things with my time and money than to play and at times pay for an internet game.....

---
Edit - or to spend my time editing a post for spelling mistakes, when no doubt there are still enough left which I or ven haven't found >.<

I never commented because I feel the same way. I did however comment on the current price gold is selling for on Sanctuary. I think it's a sad reflection on the server that we were the first to find and use the exploit, and are the last to see the results of it fade away.

AS for my stating that you didn't comment, it was in reference to your post JUST prior to mine. That is all. Everyone needs sleep. Even me. *heads to bed now as it's almost 4am*

~S

Sejhia - Heavens Tear · March 2009

To me hard work in mmos makes for good yields and hopefully good returns money wise however I have to say that as an experienced mmo player the reality is that the main problem afflicting most economies is greed. I've always said it and its nothing new. There is always a group of players who love to play the market. "Buy low and sell high" is their moto and they care very little if at all about how the market goes.

As a small example, the main item in a mmo I played before was relatively cheap. After a particular patch the prices of said item went sky high ( a couple k to several mil). It reached to the point where people started to quit because they were simply unable to survive the market trends. It got so bad GMs were forced to intervene using methods I will not mention here. You see no matter how hard you worked in game it was simply impossible to keep up.

Hopefully PW will never reach that point.

thanduril · March 2009

oh my jeebus...

@OP:....your taking this game too seriously. i want to tell you that you are taking this GAME too seriously. and now i want you to pay specific attention to the word G A M E *echo in the background*tooo...serioussslyyyy*/echo in the background*

ok now, people play the game how they want to play.
some are nice
others are asshats.
but still they play this game and mingle with each other and thats how the ball rolls

if you want a 100% stellar goodie goodie chocolate coated sugar dusted jelly filled cookie crumbled obesity inducing environment, then you`ll get sick...of everything in this game and quit.
if you dont get how painful a perfectly happy eternity where nothing goes wrong can be then it just shows your lack of understanding.

pay attention to the fact that you grow powerful(lvl up) by killing species(mobs) that dont mean you any harm as long as you dont intrude upon them while they are jazzercizing while doing their thing(....spawning)
not like they are taking over the cities, killing innocent NPCs and even those "wraith attacks" are less of attacks and more of...mass jazzercise.
but still you kill them over and over and over again untill your satisfied of the outcome and move on the kill stronger species(mobs) in an endless cycle of life and death untill you die(die in real life or quit...duhh)

to bring up facts about 3rd world labour and 1st world luxury in a FANTASY "G"A"M"E" is one of the most moronically senile approach to finding a higher "meaning" to the (perfect)World.....(international)"

i stopped reading your opening post when you started introducing stuff about chocolate labour and whatnot, so i am to blame for not giving and direct quotes of your time wasting post.
i dont mean to be like the abovemention ****, and you can bet your shinning penny that i am doing my best to refrain from being such as the abovementioned ****. but you really need to STOP FRETTING over the most absurd details in a "{G}"{A}"{M}"{E}" before you go crazy.

there are so many more things to crack your head open on, IN REAL LIFE.
the current economic condition of the world seems to be spiralling downwards and a global depression seems to be looming up on the horizon. go think about that and switch off your monitor to refrain from contributing to global warming.
just quit the game if its become so hard for you already. cheers.

*jazzercise:is a form of doing jazz dance while listening to music as a fitness regime. now you know. an old skit from MadTV made me use it in this post xD

Veno_MAN_cer - Sanctuary · March 2009

thanduril, since you've failed massively to even grasp one iota of what was intended to be meant by this thread, I should tell you that: you take this thread way too seriously, this THREAD way too seriously.. echo.. blah blah blah..

I'm not going to continue to be narrowminded like some seem to think they have the right to be, you don't know the first thing about who you have just 'tried' to insult with childish comments and half baked attacks...

If you want to, and choose to remain blinded by the fact that even in a fantasy game, real world issues can still be applied, then that's your choice. After all, the thread is about ignorance to some degree, and seems you have alot of it..

*goes back to playing the GAME (only saw what was typed on Anajna's screen, just had to say something lol ;P)*

Anajna - Sanctuary · March 2009

*tucks Sait in* Sleep well ^^

To Sejhia:
I don't know whether the items you mention from that other game were 'essentials' to play that other game. Because there lies the huge difference to me - luxury items, that just make gameplay easier or lift a player's 'social status', those items only gain their 'value' because players lust to have them. And to 'keep up' suggests there is a secret race going somewhere, but that only applies if one decides to join into that. I am not using exp scrolls for example in PWI, never had a guardian angel, nor have I used so far 1 single mp charm for my level 66 cleric. Will I level slower due to that? No doubt I will, but I definitely have not signed up for a race. I don't compete with others, I could not care less whether they reach some distant level faster than me. I play because I enjoy the graphics, can stop on the way and just stare at a pixel flower and find it beautiful, as well as that I enjoy the gameplay itself, for example my challenges to make decisions on my build, my spells and so forth. I do not need to 'keep up' with anybody, nor do I care whether others have beautiful shards in every available socket on their all the way legendary equipment. That is them, and I am happy for them, same as I am happy for what I got ^^

If essential equipment ends too pricy, then that really is a problem in a game, but most of what gold is needed for on PWI isn't essential at all, accept inventory or bank extensions, but honestly.. if I can't grind the coins together for that, then I am one lousy player anyway and don't deserve more inv or bank space :P

To thanduril:
The 'fretting' comes from players complaining about how they suffer within a game environment due to pixel prices, and the referance to the 3rd world was in relation to that. I am fully aware of the energy my comp uses, as well as the fact that I at times spend real life cash on games and other luxuries. You may should have read more after all *winks* because -although I doubt it was your intention- you proved my point all the way with your reply, that this is a GAME, and we should keep it in relation to a world existing beyond our computer screens. We do not suffer, we have it great, even if PWI gold costs 15k more at the moment than what it did before the glitch. Complaining about such in our fantasy gameworlds is pettiness and shows a self-obsession which we can only indulge in because we have it so good, but under the same token: this self-obsession is a reflection of attitude outside of games, and as such there is a connection to the so called real world after all.

Well, I hope this has clarified matters a bit for you, in a shorter version than my -as it appears- otherwise too longwinded for you, posts

thanduril · March 2009

Veno_MAN_cer - Sanctuary wrote: »

thanduril, since you've failed massively to even grasp one iota of what was intended to be meant by this thread, I should tell you that: you take this thread way too seriously, this THREAD way too seriously.. echo.. blah blah blah..

I'm not going to continue to be narrowminded like some seem to think they have the right to be, you don't know the first thing about who you have just 'tried' to insult with childish comments and half baked attacks...

If you want to, and choose to remain blinded by the fact that even in a fantasy game, real world issues can still be applied, then that's your choice. After all, the thread is about ignorance to some degree, and seems you have alot of it..

*goes back to playing the GAME (only saw what was typed on Anajna's screen, just had to say something lol ;P)*

@OP:and since this gold exploit has hit sanctuary more harder than heaven's tear(one i play and pay on) i begged to differ.
its not about which server exploited the bug to what extent. its more about the prevalent level ranges in each server. HT having a comparatevely higher level range results in people here being less desperate to sell/buy gold using their dirt money as fast as possible, so all those billions of glitched money and gold is used slowly overtime rather than sold off instantly by lower level players on sanc who have just hit 60 and want to get that fancy cash shop mount, thus paramounting to gold inflation and regular gold hitting a permanent benchmark of that degree evermore if regular sellers pick the new price to sell gold-zen(OR cash shop items) at.

if your really gonna go into the depths of how the price of your gold bought by real money is meant to be more than its supposed to then there are not just human factors like...greed and extra requirements but game mechanics as well, for example how much base gold+/-gold a lvl 30 mob drops compared to that of a lvl80 mob. over there getting your gold to drop is "earning your paycheck" so higher your level is the fatter your paycheck will be. and being able to afford more of these luxuries are easier on having a bigger paycheck of Lv80 than having a measly Lv30 one.
and since HT players got a higher level range, they are at a higher position, hence make more money that Sanc players therefore have the means to afford these luxuries more easily regardless of how much RL money they have pumped into this game to keep it going.
it also simply means that more people buy Zen(rl money spent on coins) on HT than on sanc, so there is more of excess gold here and thats why price is down.

and these game luxuries you keep speaking of, they arent really that much of a plush leather sofa, but more of a sports car. that is they make you do your thing faster and more better than others who dont have it. Lv70+ player with 11ms mount can do his world quest 14hours faster than a same level player who is running on foot/+1-1.5ms free flying mount. training estoirca spammer can level 50% faster than player who doesnt use them. etc.
all these not only make your game "easy" but they acutally make your "living" in this game more bearable, if you`d consider the game akin to real life. JUST BECAUSE others are out there suffering, that doesnt mean you must choose the path of a monk and ignore anything that gives you any worldy comfort, or that you must make money and start giving it out as charity to others whom you dont deem comfortable enough.

this glitch sure had messed up the game economics, but that doesnt mean
that we must all strip ourselves of whatever we have and try to downgrade our gameplay and suffer in game(die/give away coins) just because someone who started playing today feels this game is harder than the banner add on some random site showed it to be, and make up for his suffering we dont have to wait untill he levels up to our current level so that it will be fair for him to move on. NOR does it mean that you can sell your clean-chit hard earned gold at the current inflated rate and feel dejected when people call you a cheat. even a techie who sits at home front of his pc all day long and doesnt know the meaning of back breaking work can be a millionaire than someone who works the mines for 16hours a day. so WHO makes you the judge of people's worth and the how many pixels your dollar sells for in game. its only you who thinks this way im afraid, and most people here are swayed by your eloquently crafted post. or are in the same shoes as you and hence feel this is the right thing to do/say.

what you are talking about is not just about game gold, its all about empathy and compassion and all those kinda text book feelings that dont seem to have a real place in day to day being. maybe a few seek out to make others world a better place to live in, but you can take my word that there are an exponentially higher number of people who just dont care. they just work their 9 to 5 shifts, get their pay at the end of the month just to keep their family from going astray. thats what a normal human being does anyway.

if you wanna debate more on about this, then you change ths thread title to somthing like...Empathy for the Poor Lv1 player or Ode to the missing 5k a seller suffers or i dont know, humour me.
otherwise i might have conveyed my point to you and im done saying. thank you very much.

@angry emo kid who logged on just to throw a stone at me:emo much?
before you go ka kaa boo boo thinking im as moronic as you, sit back and take a deep breath fool.
i`d bet your diapers that you yourself dint understand what the OP was stating, or if you did and your here just to give here a pat on her back and **** on anyone who objects then you are a imbicile butt monkey of epic proportions. and i hope i havent just "tried" to insult your holiness with my quartly grilled attacks and fang bearing and hissing. if you need a further explain on what a imbicile butt monkey of epic proportions is...oh nevermind i dont really want to teach a child(immature not under aged) something bad :<
start a flame war here and you`ll end up getting this topic closed, which might have some good scope unless fools like you start adding their turds here. talk civil or feel free to shut the **** up.

Veno_MAN_cer - Sanctuary · March 2009

thanduril, first off, umm.. nice ATTEMPT at insulting lol (read the definition of what's "emo" and then look at your previous post before calling others names ;P)

Anyhoo, you seem to still fail to see the point of this whole thread and haven't worked out the fact that I said 'I read on her screen' means I SIT next to her, we play together, Anajna, myself and our daughter all enjoy this beautiful game ^.^

I jumped in and posted (something I very rarely do as I'm not keen on forum discussions, much rather play the game tbh) because YOU tried to infer that my beloved 'lacks understanding' <-- HAHAHA... If you only knew her.

We are NOT complaining about the glitch that affected the PWI community. We are NOT saying gold should be a certain price or whatnot.
We are NOT complaining about the game.
I HAVEN'T complained that my lvl 76 veno was stuck at bottom of etherblade lake that fateful day drowning for over 12+ hours while I was helpless to do anything but submit a ticket. (I was fine with it, I knew PWE would fix what they'd done, I just played on my cleric for the day instead

)
And we are NOT saying that anything you have put in any of your posts is not contradictory or hypocritical to any other statement you have posted so far. ;P

We enjoy the game, but still even you must agree that it is extremely unfair to those that do deposit to be run down for the price of gold atm, when in truth it's PWE themselves who inadvertantly made this situation arise.

Nature of games and complex programming, things can happen, some will exploit it, the gold sellers aren't the ones who exploited it, was the ppl who found the bug to sell cash shop items for massive amounts of coins thus making them buy gold from auction with profits from said glitch (there's a circle for ya)... this is how I understand from my observations that day what actually transpired.

As for stones, you cast a stone at someone trying to make people understand something they obviously miss the point of. To try remove some of the stress for those who are in truth keeping this game free for all to play, many seem to take that for granted. If you think I cast a stone... well then... what you cast at my beloved was a whole mountain and count yourself lucky that I'm not as immature as some others that play this game...

have fun!

Jeagerjaques - Lost City · March 2009

HOLY ****?! BTW no one will read those long posts, well most of the people won't anyways. But, I read the first few, and just saying, there is an equilibrium price in every economy...lol. The buyers AND the sellers set that price. For those who don't know, the equilibrium price is where producers (in this case, gold sellers) are willing to sell their goods and services, and consumers are willing to buy those goods and services. And I am a supporter of laissez-faire and capitalism ^_^. Providing GMs don't interfere with ingame prices (lol), the price should always go back the equilibrium price, no matter what. Sanctuary, in my opinion, its just a matter of time before you have your gold prices back to normal.

Anajna - Sanctuary · March 2009

hmm.. I somehow feel you have completely missed the point of this thread, thunduril, but that can happen easily, as well as that I might misjudge you on this - the written word is a very limited tool, as the varying interpretations of texts have shown over and over from past days to now ^^

But yes, in fact, I personally feel again you are underlining some points I made, with trying to attack me over who am I to judge for what people are to sell their gold for. Well, uhm.. exactly? The market judges that, but many players seem to feel they have a right to accuse others of greed, and somehow I doubt a fall of gold prices would change that - those who want for as little effort as possible will still complain prices are too high, regardless *shrugs*

I am not one of PWI's gold sellers, which I somehow get the feeling you believe I am. In fact, to a degree I am with Zoe as in that it is nice -if one is in a position- to share some of one's 'wealth', as do I agree with Saitada and another poster, that greed is anything but pretty. But what I find fascinating and disturbing all in one, is that many who accuse the gold sellers of greed, never seem to stop and analyze their own motives, meaning - why do they want the gold prices low? I can't imagine I am wrong in assuming that most want the prices low, so that they can obtain gold for less ingame coins, meaning less grinding time and what not. That is just as greedy, to want all those things as cheap as possible - things that are not 'needed', but are wanted for easier gameplay - and wanting from others to make them available, but of course without those getting too much of a gain for it.

And I also believe that the moment one feels one has to make gameplay more 'bearable', one may should reconsider playing such a game at all, or at least sit down for a moment and try to find reasons why one plays.
Quo Vadis - where are you going...
Somehow I doubt many will be able to answer that, game or otherwise, and it seems to just end in a hunt for something, something no one can truly give a name to. If I level today, or in a few days - what does it really matter? Is it not the gameplay itself which is meant to bring the enjoyment? And if it does not bring enjoyment - then what could possibly be waiting at 'the end' of that game, which could make up for the time lost 'suffering' through it?

It has been proven that being 'rich' in 'material goods' does not bring happiness, and pixel items are 'goods', too. Instead, setting goals and achieving them after putting true effort in - psychology seems to have established is what can truly bring a sense of fulfillment. Wanting everything easy and cheap and getting it that way does not seem to fill anything within, or at least not for a prolonged period of time.

Oh, and veno_MAN_cer understands very well what I have been trying to convey - he shares the view, but I am the one who ends writing our thoughts down (on the few occasions we actually enter this forum), as the written word is my profession, so it just seems to make sense I end formulating what goes round in our minds, instead of him (although english isn't my first language, but oh well) *shrugs, then leans over to give the man sitting next a kiss* plus more than understandable that he is protective, I'd say, and I am glad that he is ^^

Overpriced gold and items?

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