Overpriced gold and items?

Bobncut - Sanctuary

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You can try selling a lot of gold for a lower price to drive the price down but oops, someone just bought all your gold and put it back in the AH for a much higher price, defeating the entire purpose of your low priced gold and making sure prices NEVER go down. This is greed, simple as that.

This is not greed. It is simply not being an idiot.

Greed is a subjective term for any behavior that demonstrates the actor places a lower value on the welfare of others than the labeler would have the actor choose. Any behavior can be called greedy if you are aggressive enough in the goals you set for others in their interactions with the rest of the world (including, of course with you).

However, since a person setting out to deliberately price gold below the market level is trying to enrich some nameless lucky person who happens to get the other side of that transaction, the ambition has been achieved. The fact that the other person (not being an idiot) recognizes that the gold's actual value is dictated not by hopes and wishes but by the collective decision-making of everyone involved in the market, has no real relevance. If you had only wanted to enrich idiots, then you should have been more selective in your charity (which the non-idiot probably would have known as well).

Zoe - Heavens Tear

People want the prices lower. Buying something at a low price simply to sell it for more to get rich is plain greed. You keep prices high, making sure no one can ever hope to afford anything as you will keep driving prices up more and more and more. Oh sorry things cost 1 million per gold now and half the players quit as a result, resellers won't let the price go down they are too busy trying to get rich.

How many mmos have I played now? About 10 or 11 I'd say. This scenario happened on each and every one of them. Greed killed them.

Adroit - Lost City

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

People want the prices lower. Buying something at a low price simply to sell it for more to get rich is plain greed. You keep prices high, making sure no one can ever hope to afford anything as you will keep driving prices up more and more and more. Oh sorry things cost 1 million per gold now and half the players quit as a result, resellers won't let the price go down they are too busy trying to get rich.

How many mmos have I played now? About 10 or 11 I'd say. This scenario happened on each and every one of them. Greed killed them.

ummm... you really need to take an economics class. You're just making a fool out of urself.

xtinct23

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ive noticed a huge cause of inflation among MANY MMOs due to the higher standing players whom i will label as "elitists" hence forth. (I dont care if their attitudes or personalities in game dont reflect elitist traits, its just a label right now)

Right now on sanctuary, 2 of the highest level characters in the game are buying buttloads of Ultimate substances 15k above market price of 50k, obviously because they want to have the trump over the other guy and get all those resources they need for god knows what.

Their flaunting of cash with the ability to buy far more than market price lets other little kids see, HEY THEYRE GETTING MORE OMNEY FOR THE SAME SUBS IM SELLING, I WANT 65K TOO! So, they start charging more in their cat shops thinking -everyone- will pay that price.

WELL GET THIS SANCT :O! 1-2 PERSONS FLAUNTING OF CASH IS NOT AN INCREASE IN DEMAND :O. ITS JUST CALLED GREED. I refuse to pay 15k more to compete with these two clowns buying up millions of ult subs prolly farming TT90 gears which ive heard one forged recently... but eh

point and case, Just because someone buys something at a higher price to guarentee they get them over the other guy doesnt mean that sets the price for the entire server.

Thanks alot Steel faction, you just made TT farming a pain in the **** for us lower level players. More expensive subs, less profit from drops!

Don't pay for them. Go farm the mats. Problem solved. If the extra small amount that the subs cost cuts into your significant profit margin, then don't buy them. Personally, I will spend up to 55k on subs and if i can't find them, I either go farm mats for them or go do something else.

Bobncut - Sanctuary

Zoe, poor design and/or implementation killed your other games as it should have. To have a sustainable game economy, you have to balance the coin-supply. Every coin that drops is naturally inflationary (more coins chasing the same number of goods). Items that drop are more complicated. Most of them are essentially converted to coins immediately (with an exchange rate fixed by the NPC value). Some wil be converted (after an exchange or two possibly) into goods (TT items, molds, even DQ items that are used for the DQ fit here). Goods are inherently deflationary. To balance out the inflow of coins from players playing, the game has coin sinks. One of the best ways to get coins out of the game is the payments to skill trainer NPCs since these escalate with the population and with experience. Eventually, if that buffer is in danger of being overrun, the game can be expanded to allow the ultra-high levels even more ways to take coins out of the game.

The game does include a price floor on the gold exchange (probably because the company only makes money when people buy gold). That floor can be seen on boutique items that can be sold to NPCs for 100,000 coin per gold of their initial price. If the price of gold gets below 100,000 coin, arbitrage (i.e., "greed" in your lexicon, Zoe) would bring it back up quickly. Ironically, it was the fact that the Duke Rose fashion items accidentally set a new floor much higher than the old one that caused the price of gold to rise. This was the game's mechanics in action. The coin supply in this case got tremendously out of balance and it is taking a while for the coin sinks to function. That will not be helped, by the way, when a portion of the population moves out to the new servers. So, get used to the new rate. It should be with us for a while before things settle down.

And, there, now you have had your economics class for the day.

shield

blah blah blah. I pay real life money to purchase Zen. I then use that Zen to play the game. It provides some very beneficial items such as mp/hp charms. I will also sell them to my friends at 100k :1 gold ratio. To the rest of the world I'll charge whatever I can get at the highest rate possible to amass coins. I'm very generous with my faction and friends, but I don't give a squat for people I don't know or play with. Welcome to a real human perspective. Economics declares I can make X amount on each gold piece. If I sell too low, people will purchase it and resell it. If I sell too high, people won't purchase it.
Zoe...you got millions and millions, quit being greedy and send it all to me. I work X hours a day at X wage, I then choose to use my income to purchase Zen. How many hours of my work is worth your hours of grind time? Well, the way I see it....if you don't like my ratios, GET A JOB. GET A 2nd JOB. Quit playing video games and go sell plasma. I don't care about your feelings, I DO care about my friends and playing and having a good time.

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear

Bobncut - Sanctuary wrote: »

That floor can be seen on boutique items that can be sold to NPCs for 100,000 coin per gold of their initial price.

Which items are those?

DragonBain - Lost City

yes w8 who wrote this article? o well whoever it was
they hit the nail on the head for a life lesson lol
i dont buy gold cause it takes the fun out of the game earning and all that

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear

Bobncut - Sanctuary wrote: »

The game does include a price floor on the gold exchange (probably because the company only makes money when people buy gold). That floor can be seen on boutique items that can be sold to NPCs for 100,000 coin per gold of their initial price. If the price of gold gets below 100,000 coin, arbitrage (i.e., "greed" in your lexicon, Zoe) would bring it back up quickly.

If that were true, I'm pretty sure gold would be selling for more than 60k each on the new servers.

RainbowVidel - Sanctuary

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just because someone buys something at a higher price to guarentee they get them over the other guy doesnt mean that sets the price for the entire server

Exactly! Now if only we could get everybody to understand this, this overpricing nonsense might finally stop.

Cyanea - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

ummm... you really need to take an economics class. You're just making a fool out of urself.

When you can not explain a concept simply, you do not understand it.

Yes, economics uses mathematics and has some interesting characteristics. However, value is not conserved, despite random descriptions of supply and demand.

Put differently, Zoe was not being a fool: instead, she was addressing a different aspect of the system.

(Then again, my preferred approach for undercutting unpleasant markets involves bypassing them, for example with gift exchanges.)

psychonaut1974

Hiya Gamers of PWI b:pleased
I'm still new to this game and i'm just a bit confused about this whole debate.
I might not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but i think there might be something not quite right in this games basic economy.
i fully agree with some of you that this is a great game, fun to play, fantastic enviroment and all that jazz.
I have bought gold with real $, mainly for the fact that i want to suport the game and keep it free to play.
So I'm just wondering if i got this right, or if those of you out there see it diff..

$10 US (for some of us thats a lot more then for others BTW) buys 1,000 ZEN.
1,000 ZEN = 10 GOLD... or 10 bucks = 10 gold . right?
1 Gold = 100 Silver
now i guess thats fair, have no probs with that..

and if 1 gold in game sells / buys for around 110,000 - 130,000 coins that is alright with me also..
1 silver = 1,100 - 1,300 coins
now i know some ppl say greed this greed that, but to me ingame as in real life, you have choices.. think about what to spend your cash on. when dealing with other ppl in game this is easy, but what gets me is this:

If i buy gold to suport the game i want to get somekind of benafit from it (other then that warm fussy feeling you get from giveing away your hard earned cash) is this fair ?? I think so, now i don't care much for fasion or fast rides and the such, as i said i'm still new (this might change the more i play.. if i stay..)
so what can i get to help me play the game charms, mats maybe..

If i buy a log pack for example, 60 silver for 20 logs or 3 silver each, that means those logs have a value of 3,300 to me..

But what can i do with them? I could use them to manufacture equipment or sell them in a kitty shop.. would they sell for 3,300 each, might be wrong but i think not..(haven't had the time to try)..and if i make something with them I have a strange feeling I'd lose out aswell..b:cry

Now as I have said I'm still new to this game and i might not know what I'm talking about, but if this trend keeps up with higher lvl Items, I think the powers that be,behind the game might be shooting themselves in the foot..
now i have not calculated every item in the shop or memorized every buy sell price, as i have a life, but I have a strange feeling threre is not going to be much of a point for me to buy GOLD , and I do want to support the game and keep it free b:pleased but I would like to get somthing in return for my $

anyway, spent far to long reading and writeing and not playing so going to go play now..

Lastly = If you don't like the asked price, don't buy it..
if you want to sell it fast ,sell it cheap. If you got the time, sell it at higher price...
b:bye Play for the fun, not the drama

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

People want the prices lower. Buying something at a low price simply to sell it for more to get rich is plain greed.

I know you mean well Zoe, but when people want prices to stay lower than what others are willing to pay, that's greed too.

A free market isn't a fair system where everybody gets what they deserve, but rather it's just a system where the greed of the buyers and the greed of the sellers is, hopefully, balanced out against each other.

It's a mistake to think blaming the sellers and somehow forcing them to sell for less will result in a fairer, better system. Robert Mugabe, for example, has shown exactly what such an attitude does to an economy.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Polyhymnia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If that were true, I'm pretty sure gold would be selling for more than 60k each on the new servers.

Seriously? It's 60k? Wow

Isolated - Harshlands

t was around that when they started now its up to 130k buy and 140k sell becuz of the event b:cry

Literature - Harshlands

Yeah I will accuse them of greed and cry about the prices. When this event 1st started I could get golds for 100-120k. Now the norm is 200 so I just buy the GA's from the shops.

But do you define me as a cash user? b:laugh So far I have "spent" $5 in this game through the trade system and buying GA's. You might say it's not much but I have been playing for a week. Who knows what I'll be up to in a few months...especially since I want a herc one day. b:victory

The line of whos supporting who in this game becomes shady with the trade system. b:chuckle

Isolated - Harshlands

and @ zoe buying gold or other items for lower and selling for more is not greed its playing smart and making a profit while u afk, ect so that they don't have to pay irl money to buy a mount ect. its the stupid ones who go over the top aka selling dull claws, and mats ect for a stupid price b:bye

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »

I know you mean well Zoe, but when people want prices to stay lower than what others are willing to pay, that's greed too.

A free market isn't a fair system where everybody gets what they deserve, but rather it's just a system where the greed of the buyers and the greed of the sellers is, hopefully, balanced out against each other.

It's a mistake to think blaming the sellers and somehow forcing them to sell for less will result in a fairer, better system. Robert Mugabe, for example, has shown exactly what such an attitude does to an economy.

I'm not up-to-date on the life and times of modern day dictators around the world, so what does Mugabe have to do with anything?

WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not up-to-date on the life and times of modern day dictators around the world, so what does Mugabe have to do with anything?

I apologize if it seems like I may have been trying to introduce politics into the thread. Mugabe just happens to be a very clear, and sad, example of what happens when somebody tries to force low selling prices. By legislating food selling prices low, the result wasn't cheap food for everybody, but rather no producers and thus starvation.