Overpriced gold and items?

Anajna - Sanctuary

Jeagerjaques - Lost City wrote: »

HOLY ****?! BTW no one will read those long posts, well most of the people won't anyways. But, I read the first few, and just saying, there is an equilibrium price in every economy...lol. The buyers AND the sellers set that price. For those who don't know, the equilibrium price is where producers (in this case, gold sellers) are willing to sell their goods and services, and consumers are willing to buy those goods and services. And I am a supporter of laissez-faire and capitalism ^_^. Providing GMs don't interfere with ingame prices (lol), the price should always go back the equilibrium price, no matter what. Sanctuary, in my opinion, its just a matter of time before you have your gold prices back to normal.

Overall agreed (on these few specific points) - and see - that was short!! hehe :P

Veno_MAN_cer - Sanctuary

Jeagerjaques - Lost City wrote: »

HOLY ****?! BTW no one will read those long posts, well most of the people won't anyways. But, I read the first few, and just saying, there is an equilibrium price in every economy...lol. The buyers AND the sellers set that price. For those who don't know, the equilibrium price is where producers (in this case, gold sellers) are willing to sell their goods and services, and consumers are willing to buy those goods and services. And I am a supporter of laissez-faire and capitalism ^_^. Providing GMs don't interfere with ingame prices (lol), the price should always go back the equilibrium price, no matter what. Sanctuary, in my opinion, its just a matter of time before you have your gold prices back to normal.

I agree totally, ppl seem prepared to pay the current price for gold so it's remaining as it is atm ^.^

Overall issue was to those who flame the gold sellers though, but your comment is valid

Jacim - Heavens Tear

Anajna - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ingame economy depends on many factors. You could have some major depositers suddenly quitting for personal reasons, depositers who would have sold gold in larger quantities - and very soon if would have an effect, unless others join to take their places.

Yeah, on Heaven's Tear gold prices were around 110-120k until Triad started prostituting out cash shop items to fund their TW ambitions.

xtinct23

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Inflation does not exist. Inflation is a greedy persons lame excuse to charge more. Prices only go up based on greed this is coming from someone who would sell gold but does not have a job at the moment. Higher prices would benefit me but I want them low.

Here you go with another stupid response. Get over this greed you think every single person on the planet except for you has. You have proven time and time again in multiple threads that you are completely ignorant when it comes to the economy and economics.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

xtinct23 wrote: »

Here you go with another stupid response. Get over this greed you think every single person on the planet except for you has. You have proven time and time again in multiple threads that you are completely ignorant when it comes to the economy and economics.

Only the greedy people would say something like this because after all, if you admit to being greedy people won't like you so you come up with this ****.

The more money I have the less I will charge when I sell things. I don't care if I can afford anything in the game and not think anything of it, I will still only pay a low price. I will never give in to your greedy high prices. I buy low and I sell low. Seems to work just fine considering I have around 11 million coins again after spending a few mil last night! Actually right now I'm buying nicely priced things from the AH, then turning around and putting them back in the AH for an even lower buy out price than the one I paid to get it in the first place.

I've taken plenty of economics classes. The end result of that is basic greed. Supply and demand does not exist in a game for the most part, as there is an infinite supply. Higher prices is simply greed. I have seen an item where there was NO demand yet players would still charge insane amounts for it. It does not matter how many coins are in the game prices never need to go up. Everything is based on pure greed.

XPapewaiox - Lost City

Zoe, if there's an infinite supply of g9 shards, can you mail me like... 15-20 HP shards?

We're also not talking about items that don't sell. Someone can charge 20k for a dull claw, but if no one will buy it at that price, it's a dumb (you can say greedy if you want, but it's not, it's just stupid) price. Why not greedy, you ask? Simple: A greedy person takes all that they can get, nothing more. 20k is a LOT more than they can get, so they pass the line from greedy to stupid.

Supply and demand exist in this game. There are limited amounts of gold DO flying around. Are you saying that if there's only 1 it should be the same price as if there's 1k in the shops? Why are vendor equips a constant price? Because supply is infinite, and they act as a cash sink. Any other item with limited availability (where limited means any form of limitation, drop rates, etc.) will fluctuate in price in any in-game economy.

Zoe, by your logic, I can't make items any cheaper. If everyone started buying gold and wanted to sell it, the price would start to go down as there wouldn't be enough buyers. Wouldn't this benefit new players who wanted to buy cash shop items without paying real life money? Setting an artificial ceiling (for example, 100k per gold) also means setting an artificial floor.

YOu know, you could sell for a lot lower and help more people, but you don't. You don't get to decide how people spend their money, but without supply and demand, you wouldn't have any idea how to set a particular price.

TL;DR summary:

More money in an economy leads to inflation. (Independent of other factors) This is mathematical fact. More players making coin in a game leads to inflation. There can be no argument on this simple fact. Prices increase at regular intervals throughout human history without being influenced by greed. Fact. They *can* be influenced by outside sources, but this is not the ONLY cause of their movement.

tatakairyu

There is not an infinite supply because the supply is what's currently out in the game, not what can be obtained. It takes time to get good items and the demand is faster than the supply can support.

I have a serious question here aswell. Did you actually pass those economic classes?

Cirdan - Lost City

Greed isn't just about trying to obtain as much as you can, it's also about keeping all that you can. A boss may refuse a pay raise but still raise the price of the product to get more profit, but he'll also refuse bonuses so he won't lose what profits he just made.

My point is that there can be greed on both sides of gold trading. (Sellers want to get as much coin as they can and buyers want to keep as much coin as they can.)

RainbowVidel - Sanctuary

Here's another example of a dumb price. 2-3 million coins for a bikini top (equivalent to around 15-20 gold).

Um, no.... just no.

As much as my veno would like to have a bikini top, I refuse to pay a 7 digit amount for it. Drop it down to the 5-6 gold range (as half of the boutique female shirts already are) and I'll gladly buy one then.

Saitada - Sanctuary

Rainbowvidel - Sanctuary wrote: »

Here's another example of a dumb price. 2-3 million coins for a bikini top (equivalent to around 15-20 gold).

Um, no.... just no.

As much as my veno would like to have a bikini top, I refuse to pay a 7 digit amount for it. Drop it down to the 5-6 gold range (as half of the boutique female shirts already are) and I'll gladly buy one then.

Yeah.. you do know that the Bikini stuff comes from special event rewards right? Thus the high price (I wants one as well lol).

~S

Anajna - Sanctuary

lol, phew, I am glad the bikini is one part of clothing I do not want

but yes, it is a special event item, from the pk slaying fest under water, and many want it - thus the high price, and I don't blame players charging for them --> I was down there once when the event first opened, just to check out what it was about, and *shudders* never again...

Zoe - Heavens Tear

XPapewaiox - Lost City wrote: »

You know, you could sell for a lot lower and help more people, but you don't.

Reread my post. I do actually. I am currently buying things from the AH then putting them back in the AH at a lower buyout price than the one I paid to get the item. I have many millions of coin so I use it to help other players.

XPapewaiox - Lost City

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Reread my post. I do actually. I am currently buying things from the AH then putting them back in the AH at a lower buyout price than the one I paid to get the item. I have many millions of coin so I use it to help other players.

I did read your post. But you still could sell them lower. Gold for 90k, 50k, 10k, give it away for free, or pay people to take your gold. How do you decide how to price your item without supply and demand? It's completely arbitrary then, and your number is no better than my number in this instance.

I know you love the moral high ground, but in this instance, morality doesn't play into math. Again, no morality in math. Sorry.

ElMieda - Heavens Tear

XPapewaiox - Lost City wrote: »

I did read your post. But you still could sell them lower. Gold for 90k, 50k, 10k, give it away for free, or pay people to take your gold. How do you decide how to price your item without supply and demand? It's completely arbitrary then, and your number is no better than my number in this instance.

I know you love the moral high ground, but in this instance, morality doesn't play into math. Again, no morality in math. Sorry.

Gotta go with Pape on this one. EDIT: But then again, would Zoe really want to completely sell herself short?

*Continues eating popcorn*

EDIT: And BTW, try not to complain about prices guys. Got to PW MY EN or China and look at their INSANE prices. ONe of the reason I quit.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

You're right, it's not a rant about how stuff is far too expensive. Instead it's complaining that players shouldn't be so cheap and pay the prices the sellers on some servers are demanding because the real world economy can be compared to the in-game economy.


I'm not going to mention that bringing up 1st and 3rd world countries is actually irrelevant.

And, I'm not going to point out that 130k could be considered over-priced, and that 105-115k isn't cheap but realistic.


Now, if there was 60 billion extra coins floating around in this make believe economy I could understand the gold price going up significantly, but there isn't. The gold sellers saw the prices go up on Valentine's Day, and it's understandable that they don't want the prices to drop to pre-VD levels even though a substantial amount of coinage was removed by the GMs. Without that substantial coinage in the server economies being re-circulated there is no reason for the prices to be as high as they currently are on some servers.

I will mention that 100k is the lowest price I'd ever expect to see gold being sold at, and that I'd never realisitically expect it to see it that low. It is unreasonable to make a claim that people are being cheap when they expect it to be lower than it currently is, and it's unreasonable to claim that they will always want it lower lower lower because there is a threshold beyond which it won't realistically fall.


See? Even I can make totally pointless (short) essay length posts that only state my opinion. I could make it longer by using examples that are completely irrelevant like you did, but there's no point to doing that.

Anajna - Sanctuary wrote: »

I bet many will read the title and think this is a rant about how all the good stuff in game is far too expensive, and how greedy the gold sellers are and and and...

But actually, it is rather about how hypocritical many are complaining about the gold prices, when most of those complaining are not the ones going out to work to earn money, which then in turn gets carried to this game, so that this game can remain free for many who can't or won't pay towards it. I wonder how many of those who complain play this game for free, or deposite very little, but of course find nothing wrong with it when those who actually invest real life money into PWI get less and less return for the money that outside of PWI doesn't change in value. Real life earners do not get payed more outside of PWI when gold prices drop within this game, their income remains the same, but still many ask for the gold prices to drop so that they can get items cheaper - then point at gold or boutique item sellers and accuse them of greed O.O

I do not blame the individual for wanting everything cheap for as little effort as possible. The 1st world community is brought up on that concept, which in turn is leading to many 3rd world communities suffering greatly, as someone ALWAYS has to foot the bill somehow. The 1st world consumes horrendous amounts of chocolate, the coca beans often harvested by children, enslaved and mistreated, who have never tasted a chocolate bar in their life... And the list is endless, from clothes to many other goods, harvested, manufactued by the poor, so that the ones who are already living in luxury can continue to want more and more, always wanting it cheaper and cheaper...

All internet games are reflections of society, as the gamers carry their attitudes and views with them where ever they go, and that includes the internet. Thus games like PWI reflect a lot of our greed and ignorance too. Developers need to earn money to pay their bills as well, so it is almost impossible to find any game for totally free, or at least nothing which has the quality of a game like PWI. Someone has to pay the developers, and in PWI's case this is happening via buying PWI gold with real life cash. Without those depositing - there would be no PWI, it is as simple as that. Do those deposing therefore deserve a return for they real life cash? Yes, they most definitely do, and the moment they feel they do not get enough return for it anymore - they most likely will stop depositing, or deposit far less, and then gold prices would rise due to that...

So, instead of complaining about that one has to play hard (because if one feels one is 'working' for one's ingame coins, then one has completely misunderstood the concept of gaming o.O), it should be remembered boutique items and gold have to be bought first with real life cash, cash someone has to WORK for, not play for. Do not accuse them of greed before not having taken a long hard look into the mirror, to check on one's own attitude and why one wants things cheap, and whether one actually cares whether someone else has to first put the effort in for oneself to get it cheaper...

My first mount (Dark Charger) I payed entirely with coins I had grinded together, and it felt great when I finally could go and collect it. Getting everything we want cheap, takes away from the feeling of achievment. In truth we are betraying ourselves of something important to happiness... We end wanting more and more, because there is a hole within us we try desperaly to fill, not realizing the way we try to fill it doesn't work. More and more, cheaper and cheaper, leads only to wanting even more even cheaper. It is endless
But saving up, aiming and having to put effort into reaching our goals - that can lead to true satisfaction. What comes easy never gets appreciated as much as what we had to wait for, save up for, put true effort into achieving. Do not wish for a world where everything is easy for you to get hold of - instead cherrish the challenges, and stay aware of the efforts others put in, too...

And never forget what a luxury it is to play internet games at all.
We should be grateful, not complaining all the time, when there are so many on this planet who can not share into our luxuries - and that partly because we are too ignorant and to self-obessed to care for their lack of everything that we so take for granted...

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Not meant to ruin anybody's game enjoyment btw, just felt like writing my view down after hearing complaints over and over about ingame prices.

Take care and have fun playing a beautiful game ^_^

Zoe - Heavens Tear

If I sell it for too low a reseller will just buy it to sell it for more which defeats the purpose of what I'm doing to begin with. So buy an item for 600k sell it for 450k or so and there just isn't enough of a price gap or a guarenteed sale for it to be worth it to a reseller.

XPapewaiox - Lost City

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If I sell it for too low a reseller will just buy it to sell it for more which defeats the purpose of what I'm doing to begin with. So buy an item for 600k sell it for 450k or so and there just isn't enough of a price gap or a guarenteed sale for it to be worth it to a reseller.

So you made a cost-benefit decision based upon price. You lowered your price SOME so that new people could benefit, but not so much that 'greedy' people would buy them en-mass to resell them.

You do realize that's exactly what people do when they raise the price. They raise it some, so people will buy, but not so high that no one (ie. no one = the people they DON'T want to buy it, if you understand that logic) will buy it. You lower it so that you can profit (ie. feel good you are helping people) but not so much that 'greedy' will buy (the people YOU don't want buying it)

You use supply/demand to set your prices, just like everyone else. GG, and have a nice day

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

Ive noticed a huge cause of inflation among MANY MMOs due to the higher standing players whom i will label as "elitists" hence forth. (I dont care if their attitudes or personalities in game dont reflect elitist traits, its just a label right now)

Right now on sanctuary, 2 of the highest level characters in the game are buying buttloads of Ultimate substances 15k above market price of 50k, obviously because they want to have the trump over the other guy and get all those resources they need for god knows what.

Their flaunting of cash with the ability to buy far more than market price lets other little kids see, HEY THEYRE GETTING MORE OMNEY FOR THE SAME SUBS IM SELLING, I WANT 65K TOO! So, they start charging more in their cat shops thinking -everyone- will pay that price.

WELL GET THIS SANCT :O! 1-2 PERSONS FLAUNTING OF CASH IS NOT AN INCREASE IN DEMAND :O. ITS JUST CALLED GREED. I refuse to pay 15k more to compete with these two clowns buying up millions of ult subs prolly farming TT90 gears which ive heard one forged recently... but eh

point and case, Just because someone buys something at a higher price to guarentee they get them over the other guy doesnt mean that sets the price for the entire server.

Thanks alot Steel faction, you just made TT farming a pain in the **** for us lower level players. More expensive subs, less profit from drops!

Granrey - Sanctuary

tatakairyu wrote: »

The longer the game is up, the more in game coin there is. The more in game coin there is the less worth it has.

Inflation my little kiddy.

Your statement makes sence but I don't think is totally accurate. I think what is more important is how many gold units are added into the game compared to regular coins.

If in the future, the proportion of new players that bring gold to the market is bigger than the current proportion. Gold prices should not go up.

However, due to economy problems in the real world, it's likely that people will put less gold in the game. Making the price to go up.

tatakairyu

That would be the same thing. We're talking about coin to gold ratio which causes the inflation. There will always be more coins coming in than gold because not everyone buys gold but everyone does make coins.

Also @ Tearvalerin, How is it being greedy if they have the money and are willing to spend it. Get excess money and if you need an item that sells out fast and most people would do the same. It's called being smart, why buy something that tons of other people are buying at the same price. One up them and you save time and time = money.

Tearvalerin - Sanctuary

No tata, not everyone has that kind of money to spend.
Just because one guy has that kind of money and buys way higher than the market price, hes essentially getting every little grubber greedy to the point where alot of people are just raising prices because hes buying at that price, its not inflaction its greed.

tatakairyu

Oh, my bad, you were talking about the people selling lol. Thought you meant the buyer was greedy for buying them up.

Yeah though, they do sell at those prices still which isn't the sellers fault. It's the people buying them up because if no one ever bought from them at 65k each in a while, they would go back to their original price maybe a tad bit higher.

So it's a two way street.

Pureentity - Heavens Tear

Perfect World prices are amazing. I have seen way too many mmo's where the prices have been raised because of gold bots and gold buyers. Who would want to pay 100$ for 20 mill so they can buy a cool weapon? Plus it's illegal to do this in most games but people do it anyway. Be grateful.

tatakairyu

I have to agree, prices are pretty decent in game wise. Boutique, eh.... A little expensive but that doesn't stop me from buying lol.

Anajna - Sanctuary

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You're right, it's not a rant about how stuff is far too expensive. Instead it's complaining that players shouldn't be so cheap and pay the prices the sellers on some servers are demanding because the real world economy can be compared to the in-game economy.

You misinterpreted, it appears to me. My initial post was most of all aimed at realizing how we complain about not being able to have all the luxury items we want in a game, forgetting that others have to pay for them in real cash, as well as that there is hypocrism involved in accusing others of greed, when it is our own greed that makes us want those items as cheap as we can possibly get them.

I'm not going to mention that bringing up 1st and 3rd world countries is actually irrelevant.

Irrelevant to you, yes? As it isn't irrelevant to me, or I would not have mentioned it. To bring our worries into relation to the worries of those who can not share into our luxuries might not be food for thought for you, but I personally find it quite important to remember how good we actually have it, and to feel a bit grateful for that.

And, I'm not going to point out that 130k could be considered over-priced, and that 105-115k isn't cheap but realistic.

And this is you telling everybody what prices are acceptable and which are not, do I read that correctly? How did you arrive with those figures and not any others, could you please elaborate on this? I would rather say offer and demand will determine prices, and depending on various factors, those prices could rise or fall in the future, little caring for what you feel is realistic or not.

Now, if there was 60 billion extra coins floating around in this make believe economy I could understand the gold price going up significantly, but there isn't. The gold sellers saw the prices go up on Valentine's Day, and it's understandable that they don't want the prices to drop to pre-VD levels even though a substantial amount of coinage was removed by the GMs. Without that substantial coinage in the server economies being re-circulated there is no reason for the prices to be as high as they currently are on some servers.

And again - the prices are determined by offer and demand? The prices more than likely rose due to the glitch, but they may would have risen anyway, who can tell, simply by a change in the amount of gold offered to the market for example. PWE would have figures on that, I doubt any of us has any clear insight of how much gold has been bought recently, and how much of that has actually been made available to the AH.

I will mention that 100k is the lowest price I'd ever expect to see gold being sold at, and that I'd never realisitically expect it to see it that low.

ahem, do you expect it to see it that 'low', or do you not expect it to see it at that price? Sorry, but that sentence has me somewhat lost, although I know it can happen when writing a longer post, that the mind races ahead and a sentence ends sort of messed up.

It is unreasonable to make a claim that people are being cheap when they expect it to be lower than it currently is, and it's unreasonable to claim that they will always want it lower lower lower because there is a threshold beyond which it won't realistically fall.

There might be a threshold, but that doesn't mean those who wish to complain will not find fault with that threshold too, still claiming they are charged too much, and that it should be cheaper (or best totally free)

See? Even I can make totally pointless (short) essay length posts that only state my opinion. I could make it longer by using examples that are completely irrelevant like you did, but there's no point to doing that.

hmm.. a lot of communication involves the stating of opinions, and judging the opinion of another as pointless, could be interpreted as you feeling only your opinion (or opinion matching yours) are of value... I found your post overall valid, as I do accept and respect that others can have differing opinions, but this last paragraph for me personally has pointed you out more as a flamer than someone wishing to discuss a subject by bringing up a different view point.
My opinion on flamers? I shall leave that to be guessed...

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To put it simply - what gets to me the most is that this game is free to play for anybody not wishing or unable to deposit, but instead of being grateful that it can be played for free, many feel they have right and reason to complain about prices for luxury items - items others have payed for in real life cash, which due to them doing so, makes this game available to play for free for all others.

Is it really so much to ask for, that if one plays a game for free, to actually acknowledge others are paying for one's game enjoyment, and to instead of attacking them, be glad one can play the game at all?

No doubt there are greedy sellers, dreaming of amazing ingame coinage to amass, but there seem to be far more greedy players demanding that on top of having a game for free - they also want to get all the good items made available to them, too, with as little effort from their side as possible.

I just find it hypocritical, to say the least, if those then point the finger at the ones actually paying for this game, and accuse them of greed. I surely will not agree with the mind-set of all goldsellers, ha - I am certain of that - but it is this complaining mentality, and wanting and demanding, that I have come across heaps within the game. Maybe I just tend to run into the wrong players, or read the wrong posts on wc?
Possible, who knows...


I don't find the prices bad at all ingame, I can grind pretty decent coinage together if I put my mind to it and really want something, and what I find too steep for me personally - I simply strike of my list of things I'd like to have and don't worry one bit about it :P

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Anajna - Sanctuary wrote: »

You misinterpreted, it appears to me. My initial post was most of all aimed at realizing how we complain about not being able to have all the luxury items we want in a game, forgetting that others have to pay for them in real cash, as well as that there is hypocrism involved in accusing others of greed, when it is our own greed that makes us want those items as cheap as we can possibly get them.

Oh, wait, you mean those selling it for really high prices aren't being greedy? It's just people who have to farm coin to buy it that are being greedy?

You mean those people who sold gold for a lot during the VD glitch weren't greedy, it was just the people abusing the glitch that were greedy?

You mean that I can sell something for whatever I want, and if someone complains that it's too high a price that they are greedy, not me?

(I really want to type something in all caps because it's funny, but I won't because, well, I'd rather type this instead)

No, I didn't misinterpret your post which was complaining about people complaining about the rise of gold prices after the VD glitch.

Irrelevant to you, yes? As it isn't irrelevant to me, or I would not have mentioned it. To bring our worries into relation to the worries of those who can not share into our luxuries might not be food for thought for you, but I personally find it quite important to remember how good we actually have it, and to feel a bit grateful for that.

I'm sorry, but it's irrelevant to bring 1st/3rd world economic issues (or whatever you wish to call them) that have no bearing on this issue and try to make them relevant. You could have saved a paragraph or two and made it shorter.

And this is you telling everybody what prices are acceptable and which are not, do I read that correctly? How did you arrive with those figures and not any others, could you please elaborate on this? I would rather say offer and demand will determine prices, and depending on various factors, those prices could rise or fall in the future, little caring for what you feel is realistic or not.

I believe I said "could be considered", not "It is over-priced". At no point did I state that they were, in fact, over priced, or that I myself considered them to be such, but, from what I've read so far in other threads about it, some prices could be considered to be "over priced".

I'm glad you are doing such a bad job of mis-reading what I posted.

And again - the prices are determined by offer and demand? The prices more than likely rose due to the glitch, but they may would have risen anyway, who can tell, simply by a change in the amount of gold offered to the market for example. PWE would have figures on that, I doubt any of us has any clear insight of how much gold has been bought recently, and how much of that has actually been made available to the AH.

"May have risen"

"May" is the most important word in that section because the likelyhood of them rising as fast as they did is very very low, in fact, I'd say not likely at all. The more likely scenario is that people saw the increase on VD day because of the glitch and prices while they did drop didn't drop to what they were before the glitch. Without the glitch having happened it's even likelier that prices wouldn't have gone up as they did after VD.

ahem, do you expect it to see it that 'low', or do you not expect it to see it at that price? Sorry, but that sentence has me somewhat lost, although I know it can happen when writing a longer post, that the mind races ahead and a sentence ends sort of messed up.

Please learn to read, but I'll quote myself so you can re-read what you didn't understand the first time around:

"I will mention that 100k is the lowest price I'd ever expect to see gold being sold at, and that I'd never realistically expect it to see it that low."

I bolded, underlined and italicized the answer in the section that you quoted from my initial post.

You did read it, right? Or did you just skim it without reading it so you could just reply soonest?

There might be a threshold, but that doesn't mean those who wish to complain will not find fault with that threshold too, still claiming they are charged too much, and that it should be cheaper (or best totally free)

I didn't hear anyone complaining about 100k before the VD glitch.

hmm.. a lot of communication involves the stating of opinions, and judging the opinion of another as pointless, could be interpreted as you feeling only your opinion (or opinion matching yours) are of value... I found your post overall valid, as I do accept and respect that others can have differing opinions, but this last paragraph for me personally has pointed you out more as a flamer than someone wishing to discuss a subject by bringing up a different view point.

Communication doesn't require posting continual walls of text on forums, and expecting people to actually read them. That's what blogs are for.

My opinion on flamers? I shall leave that to be guessed...

My opinion on people who post complaint essays on forums? I shall leave that to be guessed...

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To put it simply - what gets to me the most is that this game is free to play for anybody not wishing or unable to deposit, but instead of being grateful that it can be played for free, many feel they have right and reason to complain about prices for luxury items - items others have payed for in real life cash, which due to them doing so, makes this game available to play for free for all others.

Is it really so much to ask for, that if one plays a game for free, to actually acknowledge others are paying for one's game enjoyment, and to instead of attacking them, be glad one can play the game at all?

That player that bought the gold should be grateful that someone was willing to spend the time in game farming the coin needed to buy the sellers gold so they didn't have to spend that time in game farming coin.

IMHO, if you are going to claim that someone should be grateful, then those selling should be grateful anyone buys it, as well.

Anajna - Sanctuary

Oh, it is very possible that I misinterpreted your post or parts of it, OMGLAZERZ, same as I still strongly feel you did mine. But no one forces you to read 'walls of text', it is your free choice, you chose to do so - and then complain about it..? o.O

There are many games out there who work on a monthly subscription. I have happily payed subscription before, but I by far prefer what has been chosen for PWI, as it also allows players who are in no position to pay such, to enjoy this game with basically no limitations. Even the items that are payed for via real money, are available for free players, albeit they have to grind coins for them, but that is part of the gameplay anyway, to grind to gain your exp for the next level, and even though without paying towards the game with real money, it is harder - it isn't 'that' tough, unless one wishes to have many of the luxury items, and that as fast as possible.
But this has all been said already, and it becomes now only repetition.

Zoe - even though I do not share all of her views - I find very likeable in her wish to help others, albeit I have always felt the best help is to try and answer questions and hand knowledge on when playing a game like this, as I know for certain we made 'mistakes' when we started in PWI, and much we have found which makes gameplay a lot easier, we only discovered after time had passed. But still, she seems to not just think of her own progess, and for that I can greatly respect her.

As for those who feel gold and boutique items are too expensive inside of the game - you can always try to find ways to pay real cash for what you want. I think there are many varying options given on how to do that, also some which do not require a credit card. That could make you in many instances independant from the ingame gold market, and save you for many parts the stress of having to be confronted with all that 'greed' of the sellers, no? Tis what we do, and if there really are items I'd like to have, but can not afford or do not wish to put massive effort in for, then I do not worry about it and exist just as happily without them.
And of course there is always the option of not playing a game.. if one feels it takes too much effort or is too expensive...

Have read through to this point? Then it was your choice, and blame yourself for the choices you make, not others, in case you dislike reading lengthy posts - was obvious it was not just one sentence

And with this I am going to leave the forum again for the time being, as this thread will only spin in circles from now on, repeating what has already been said. No doubt a lot of misinterpretations mixed into all of it, too, always happens, and I gladly apologies for any such from my side, but nothing I have read from those disgreeing has in any shape or form changed my opinion that many take too much for granted and are driven by wanting things as easy and fast as possible, which in my view is not even doing themselves any good, but of course - that's my personal opinion, judging them the spoiled products of a heavily consumer orientated society, which is not an attack against the individual - but actually feeling sorry and concerned about what seems to has been lost on that path...

All the best to those agreeing as well as those disagreeing alike, and hopefully much fun and enjoyment playing this beautiful game, no matter what the gold prices are ^_~

thanduril

ok Anajna, one thing you need to understand is that the VALUE of anything in this game is decided by the majority of players playing it. sellers(minority) AND buyers(majority)

a problem only arises when someone goes against this majority and makes them unhappy.
when someone sells something for cheap, you dont see anyone actually bitterly complaining about it being cheaply priced.
but when someone sells something for what the majority feel is higher than usual then you hear the massive amount of bickering and cribbing.

your saying here that people must start accepting whatever price the gold is sold at BECAUSE someone is using his real life money to make it avaliable to them and without him they`d not just have overly priced gold, but nothing at all.
but you dont seem to see that many players, atleast on heavens tear, spend more on this game than you can ever imagine voluntarily. a couple grand USD is a lot for even a paid game. but for a "FREE" game its infinitely high. but yet they spend their money cause....its their money.
i know for a fact that a player with a below average salary spends around $10 per month and sells around $2 for game coins, and i also know a player who spends $300+ just cause he is able to. just BECAUSE he is able to.
if he ever does sell any part of this money for game coins, he picks a price that he feels is average for 1gold, ie a price somewhere between what is stated in the Gold Exchange.

this mass hysteria about overpricing in Sanctuary server is ONLY because of the valentines day exploit. it was like a fuse that was lit and the chain reaction follows. only time would tell how badly the valentines day/friday the 13th bug would hit the servers and...it seems like its finally starting to spiral downwards hereon in sanctuary.

i dont know, but if you ever spoke to the Auctioneer NPC, there is an option called gold selling guide. its a guide with an approximate lower limit and upper limit for the price of one gold, thats the reason the pioneers who sold gold in PWi dint set the price of 1 gold to somewhere around 10million. after all everyone is as greedy as they get.

you know what, since you play this game for personal satisfaction along with your family and not some Player killing or hyper leveling motivation, you can shift to the new upcoming PvE server and start afresh there without people around you constantly crying about prices. just my bit of advice and up to you what you make of it.

Bobncut - Sanctuary

I will readily admit that I got tired of reading the idealistic nonsense in this thread before the end. And, then, someone brought up silly notions of right and wrong affecting markets. And, then, there were even worse notions of what kind of demographics of different servers might affect markets. And the Zoe said something. So, yes, I did not read it all.

But, as someone who did invest a lot of time in an economics PhD, let me just point out that people NOT selling gold is a good way to drive the price of gold UP. If you missed that point in your economics class, please do not try to replace generations of academic study with your dorm-room philosophizing. Since the value of my time is much higher than $1/hour (or 77 cents at the current price of gold on Sanctuary), I tend to sell more gold than I buy. So, I would like to thank everyone who is keeping their gold off the market "until prices get back to normal."

Zoe - Heavens Tear

You can try selling a lot of gold for a lower price to drive the price down but oops, someone just bought all your gold and put it back in the AH for a much higher price, defeating the entire purpose of your low priced gold and making sure prices NEVER go down. This is greed, simple as that.