Heavy Armor/Str Build, come dance with me.

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

My question would be, what does the pure melee veno build get you over playing, say a blademaster?

Mainly, the use of a pet. This adds additional damage on top of what you can do, and also adds survivability. If you manage the pet well, you can take very little if any damage from mobs, so long as you don't steal hate. The pet can also add effects, such as armor break, which helps some.

Venomancers also get a thorns spell, which is quite handy for when you do steal hate - why not kill them even faster as they hit you - and later, a short duration, high damage thorns spell with damage reduction. Combined with their hp/mp recovery spells, and the hp/mp swap spell, and you can stay alive for a fairly long time.

I would say, however, that it's mostly a "Because I feel like it" type of build. Especially once you get into the mid levels - when a Blademasters' attack skills would start adding a significant amount of extra damage - and then into the higher levels, where Blademasters get even more extra damage on attacks, and the foxform builds start to shine.

Or, if you just really like money, but don't feel like RMT'ing.

Why do melee dmg in human form? doesn't fox form do more dmg? (from the pic i saw from Dinny)
I do agree that this kind of build do more dmg.. just solely human form alone it does about the same dmg has my full int veno, considering that u hit at each sec.
In int based u have like 2 - 3 sec wait for casting and channel, where in fox form channel and cast is about half.. so im assuming this build does almost 2 times more dmg then full int? Correct me if im wrong, i find this quite surprising.

Even if you don't do any spell cast in fox, you have your normal "paw" hit, isn't that the same speed as if you were human?
And the 120% melee mastery, doesn't it do more dmg then the axe human form? (i know you have to change to a mag wep type to go fox, so the phys atk reduces)

Dinny - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Non-conformity FTW indeed!

This sums up my feelings on why I have a light armor fox. o.o Though, she's more of a hybrid veno: able to do magic and fox well, but not a master in either. o.o

That said, an arcane fox with the build you mention isn't going to outdamage a light armor fox. The light armor fox has approximately twice the str and the same weapon... not to mention more crit. o.o

It actually makes sense. The traditional arcane venos are setup to deal the most damage with spells. The foxform's damage will suffer in comparison since it doesn't benefit from int. o.o

You've given me an idea. A traditional arcane build won't have enough str, but an exotic arcane build would. o.o If you had enough int for the best weapon and all the rest in str, you'd have twice the str of a light armor fox. That build should easily outdamage a light armor fox. It might outdamage a heavy armor fox too. Not sure o.O

Your physical defense will be paper thin though. Oh well o.o

like i said before, these builds have been out for years, perfect world is not a new game. just new to us.
if you take a good look at our talent tree youll see that fox does get much more skills to use. the caster side has 1 set of attack spells, the rest are buffs with a duration. both caster and melee venos benifit from it, however caster venos have bramble hood at their fingertips can can use asap. fox venos have to shift out to use it. then must wait to go back to their dmg dealing form. now on the other side. foxes have their dmg abilites and on top their curses. while caster venos can shift to use em. its a tedius task. this is what makes the fox veno a more enjoyable experience. we have more buttons to mash .

now as for the melee human form veno and the heavy fox veno, there is alot more than just melee swing differences.

while a heaven fox veno will get an aditional 200% more dmg on their wep, it may not compare to a dual axe dmg. but they have much much more going for them., the curses. and even the ability to tank dmg and allow the useage of a full dps pet. let the pet dps and you do the tanking. early on fox venos have much more defence than tiger barbs. walking around with a golem allows you to attack more than 1 mob at a time. since their special attacks debuff, (lowering accuracy ect) you lessen dmg done to you and your pet. your survavability is much higher.
if you do reaserch fox builds youll discover they are ment for pvp also , players have to take different approches to them. casters can win them but melee and archers will get ripped to shreds by em. of course the best way to pvp is to know your limitations, your abilities, your enemy and the enviroment.

the good thing that we got from perfect world is pve servers. the rest of the pw servers around the world are pvp. due to this, choices like the op has choosen can and will work. every build we come up to works like a charm, which makes this game very flexible and really good.
don treat perfect world like other mmos who have fixed builds and your "gimp" if you are not that build.
here your not gimped. you work your character to your playstyle.
many may disagree with your build but so what you just showed them you dont have to follow a cookie cutter build to be successful in this game.

Tailpuff - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes i do agree in everything you say Xchandra

just think only to put to str to do more dmg in fox form is not a reason because you see.. mag atrib points are amplifiers, its actually multiplying not adding.. if your going to change just to split dmg between human and fox.. your dmg will be reduced a lot. If your going to take more advantage in the str you put in then yes your doing great.

The reason why a fox puts points into magic is to use high end magic weps. you can only turn into a fox with said weps. these weps determine how much melee dmg youll put out.If i could use the best axes and turn into a fox and benifit from a 200% extra dmg boost , fox venos would be utterly overpowered.

in my faction i can kill a mob just as fast if not faster than the pur mag builds. the way we do dmg is different tho. mag builds pull out big numbers but have casting timers. due to their big numbers they have the potential to pull aggro from their pets.
fox build on the other hand are smacking the enemy constantly. by the time a caster hits with one spell we did the same dmg in swings, the huge difference is were with our pet. i can , by spamming my skills, take aggro from my pet, however because hes close by, he can take it back quickly when its skills are up and i use them.
due to how the game mechanic is, once a mob starts to move, melee have to move and cannot attack till the mob stops. this is why it takes longer for pets to regain aggro from mobs that go after the caster., they are not dealing dmg while they move, thus the next spells the caster throws creates more aggro thus making it harder for the pet to take off the mob from the caster.

Laranda - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The build I mentioned is intended to maximize the damage of the fox form. It's like Xchandra said: it has points in mag strictly to equip the best weapon. Since arcane armor doesn't have any other noteworthy requirements, I can dump the rest of the points into str for more melee damage. o.o

I took some time to generate the stats of a heavy armor build, classic light armor build, and my arcane/str build. I then put them into ecatomb's calculator and worked out how much damage each could do.... the results surprised me. o.o Keep in mind, I equipped the most up to date white weapon in the calculator. The number after the : is the average damage.

lv60:
heavy: 341-435:388 (Lv39 Glaive)
light: 350-454:402 (lv59 Glaive)
arcane: 447-579:513 (lv59 Glaive)

Lv60+lv9 melee mastery:
heavy: 716.1-913.5:814.8 (Lv39 Glaive)
light: 735-953.4:844.2 (lv59 Glaive)
arcane: 938.7-1215.9:1077.3 (lv59 Glaive)

lv80:
heavy: 557-778:667.5 (lv54 Magic Sword)
light: 525-682:603.5 (lv79 Glaive)
arcane: 702-913:807.5 (lv79 Glaive)

lv80+lv10 melee mastery:
heavy: 1225.4-1711.6:1468.5 (lv54 Magic Sword)
light: 1155-1500.4:1327.7 (lv79 Glaive)
arcane: 1544.4-2008.6:1776.5 (lv79 Glaive)

An increase of average damage of about 300... sounds good to me. o.o Not sure I like the lack of defense on robes... oh well, that wasn't the point of the build. o.o

sounds interesting !
im currently working on 5 str, 1 dex 4mag every 2 lvls. up until i get 210 mag to use one of the lvl 10 legendary weps. i currently have a lvl 22 legendary wep, mirage sword and my dps is utterly high.
so far this spec allows me to use the best heavy armor and robes aval my lvl. seems for pvp it will allow me to mix and match depending on my opponent.

btw what is your arcane str build?(points per lvl) sounds intresting,

Xchandra - Heavens Tear wrote: »

due to how the game mechanic is, once a mob starts to move, melee have to move and cannot attack till the mob stops. this is why it takes longer for pets to regain aggro from mobs that go after the caster., they are not dealing dmg while they move, thus the next spells the caster throws creates more aggro thus making it harder for the pet to take off the mob from the caster.

This is not true for pets. If you notice, when you're moving, a mob seems free to attack you. Pets act like mobs in this matter and can chase and attack more easily then players can. The reason for this is sync lag between a player and the server places the player too far back to attack even tho it isnt true on your screen. Pets do no suffer this debilitation. I am a magic/arcane Veno, and very often when i steal aggro, and the mob starts to come for me, after a few steps my pet has snapped it back before it gets anywhere close to me. I understand why you'd think it would be the case as it is true for players meleeing (or being unable to melee) moving mobs, but i wanted to clarify that pets, similar to actual mobs, since both their running movements are kept track of at the server in sync, dont suffer from being unable to attack what they're chasing.

oh im aiming to get the tt90 the requirered str is 227 and agi 49. this will allow me to get the 210 wep im aiming for.
(total of 486 talent points - the 15 points in the attributes im aiming for 471)

i can get this before lvl 100 giving me points to spare for more str n agi to prob upgrade to another tier of armor.

the wep is lvl 70 so i may focus on getting my mag up 1st.

Leolf - Heavens Tear wrote: »

okay, I just read most of this board, and I gotta say, it's really inspiring. I already made a melee veno to experiment, but I had no idea that it was actualy a legitimate build people do, this is really cool. But, I was wondering, since Venos seem to be able to do pretty much everything, has anybody ever thought of an archer Veno? My main veno is a light armor, fox/mage hybrid, although I usually epic fail in fox But I might try using bows with her, see how it goes.

The main problem I can see with an archer build, would be lack of magic. Since you would have no skills to use for your ranged attacks, you would have to pump your dex as high as possible to get some decent damage output. Since you're ranged attacking, your pet would be tanking most of the time, similar to a mage build. Having very high dex means you're going to sacrifice on other stats - namely, your magic would be so low that your pet heal would do very, very little.

The only way to remedy this slightly, would be to wear light armor that is quite a few tiers lower than your character level. Then you can move some of those stat points from str into mag, while still keeping dex high. This would make you extremely soft, though, so if a mob jumps you, you'd be in a bad situation.

If you wanted to wear light armor of your current level, and sacrificed dex into mag, then you would probably start becoming very underpowered, since you would have virtually no abilities to use to up your damage (besides swapping weapons and using Ironwood). Overall, a heavy armor melee build would probably deal more damage, and would have better survivability.

liquidfusion wrote: »

I wanna use the build that does the most dmg, with equally good pdef and magic defense... I might be asking for too much, but I dont wanna **** my first veno up if you know what i mean lol.

Well, about the only way to **** up your veno is to try to be too many things at once. You end up able to do lots of things, but not being that great at any one of them. Your points will be spread too thin. e.g. When you're in mage form you're going to have a lot of points sitting in str, vit, dex that aren't helping you any.

Pick if you want to go caster or fox form, heavy or arcane armor (or light). Then just run with it. Pretty much all the builds seem to work one way or another. Pure mage seems to level quickest, and fox form doesn't really take off until you get melee mastery at 19. Also, until you hit your 60s or so, you're only going to have enough spirit points to really support one set of skills - mage or fox.

So pick whatever build best suits your style of play, and learn to compensate for any weaknesses. If you're unsure, I would suggest starting with a pure mage veno (just enough str to wield a magic weapon of your level, all other points into int). If after a while you don't like it, you can switch by putting any new points into str, dex, vit as appropriate. But if you start with a fox or melee veno, the only way to switch to a pure mage veno is with a stat reset scroll. The skills before level 19 don't cost much spirit, so you won't be too bad off there from the switch either. And most people making a fox veno start off as a pure mage veno to level quickly, then buy a stat reset.

Well I recreated a new venomancer not long ago, she's a level 40 at the moment. I planned to make her pure mag, but after looking at how much a fox form veno can do, I decided I wanted to change it up. Thing is, I was wondering if anyone had any advice on how to stat vit, str, mag, and dex? I've found a love of fox form and melee with a veno, it's brilliant, and more venos should do it. It's a lot more fun than "oh.. same spell casting pattern over and over" lol.

Any advice would be really appreciated. I'm thinking of investing in a reset note for this, so I just wanna be sure I'll do it right the first time.

---

Ah nevermind, I just realized there was a post on how to stat (sort of) for a melee veno. Thanks for all this input, I'm glad I found this thread.

HolyInferno - Sanctuary wrote: »

Heavy armr venos is one of the paths a veno can choose to take and you will never hear me say that its ****. I will be honest, when I heard/saw a heavy armr veno, I almost fell of my chair laughing cause it seemed to be the most absurd thing I have ever seen. However, my belief on that topic has changed. Venos in heavy armr are a pain in the **** b:chuckle. Since the foxform is so riddled debuffs, they can cause some serious discomfort. With their own stun and if they are lucky to have a pet with the pounce/slow skill, they can easily close in on you and wreak havoc. However, their real disaster area is against other melee characters. I have seen a lvl65 heavy armr veno take out barbs and bms 10-15 lvls higher then her. Unfortunately, with heavy armr comes the loss of mag def and range. When going against a mage veno or a wizard, the are very susceptible to damage. Dueling against the veno mentioned above, I was decimating her health with damages from range and was easy to run from her (unfortunately I lost the duels to her multiple times but I blame that on me sucking at pvp b:chuckle). So my opinion on this matter is there are pro's and con's to the heavy armr veno but I do not think that they have an edge to the classic veno build because they give up two key advantages : range and spike damage.

basicly there is no perfect set up. you set up one way youll have weaknesses the other.
people who opt fox like melee and to be in close range. i happen to be one of those people. just like casters have to worry about melee closing in and especially archers, we have to worry more about casters.
i did duel a caster veno from my faction before my fb39. she went fox vs me and was 20 lvls more than me. no pets, and i won. so then we decided to duel in caster. I didnt last more than 2 hits XD of course her lvl 59 spells > mines .

this is the beauty of this game. a whole set up can allow you to play your char differently.

and fox builds were ment to be, we have half of the tree dedicated to fox. 1 part for buffs and the other for caster spells.

battlefairy wrote: »

why is nobody talking about his ability to heal his pet?

That much strength and a **** magatk based on his AXES would lead to terrible pet healing....am I nuts?

Yes, you are nuts considering you cannot cast Heal Pet with Axes equipped. Heavy armor venos switch to a lower level magic weapon when casting spells which means their heals will do less, but if their pet has the Boost ability it can help itself out sometimes. Beyond that there simply isn't anything to discuss.

saidje wrote: »

Yeah I'm trying a home-grown build now and I feel like my **** is hanging in the wind. Am I going to end up with a playable character, or drek?

Anyway, I would be extremely interested, and eternally grateful, if you did write up this guide.

I know it's taking time from your day you might want to spend elsewhere, but if you could I'm sure many would be appreciative of your efforts.

Thanks in advance,
Saidje

bleh once again ill link it. heavy veno build have been out for years, were all just new to it.

http://forum.perfectworld.com.my/viewtopic.php?t=3407

you must subcrive to the pw my-en forums to view it. scroll down and there will be a part that offers a few builds, and a few heavy builds.

im quite following a hybrid build, it allows me to use both the best heavy and arcane armor. now that more magic mobs are involved i have been switching my gear around.

this also has helped me with duels. i can negate my weakness to casters by donning my arcane gear. Yeah it sounds impractical but if your pking, dueling even in tw, if your smart and keep a lowprofile as you select your target (foxes are small) you can chage a few pieces of gear before engaging and attack with the proper defence.

remember smart fox venos know how to use thier speed ability. closing a gap between a caster is faster than you think. however jumping ill prepared can lead you to get 1 to 2 shotted XD


oh on another note, our suvivability vs pve is unmatched by any class. we can even attack a few mobs at the same time with no problem. our ability to self heal with leech , even soak tons of melee dmg allows us to survive a moment where your mob runs into others. also leech used correctly with soul transfusion= you rarely use pots unless attacked by 3 to 4 mobs at a time. we have zero downtime. This is comming from a veno who has not even used an hp/mp charm. (wich means we save tons of coins)