for Gm's :jones Blessing ruin game and pvp
Comments
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Junon - Heavens Tear wrote: »I understand what you're saying, but just because you guys have a different enviroment doesn't automatically grant you the right to be the only ones to have say on this whole Jolly Old Jones issue.
That's basically where me saying" PvP is PvP" stemmed from. And it all started running off into a completely different discussion as you can see.
I'll have to disagree with us being limited to what our server can offer. And how to deal with drama? Been there done that. (Rohan ftl).
I will leave it at this, didn't mean to de-rail the topic.....b:laugh
Yeah, opinions from both, PvE and PvP servers, are as valid as the other one. The problem is that you will find more LC people complaining about this because, once more, the environment of both server is very different. It doesn't effects the PvE server as much as it does on the PvP one.
What I mean to being limited is: Yes, maybe you can be very good at PvP, maybe your friends do too, or even your whole faction. But consider that a lot of factions and players are not interested into PvPing, and won't have a PvP build or will have just average PvP skills. Maybe in HT/ST, PvP is more seeing at TW, maybe your whole faction could dominate the whole map, but maybe you're fighting factions that doesn't have the same PvP quality yours do.
You won't be given a real challenge, or at least, not as one as a PvP server can offer you. You will have to stick to the PvP/TW level your server, other factions, can offer you. Maybe you own the whole map as territory, but maybe you're winning against factions which most members are fighting with a PvE build, or people that are not that interested into improving themselves with their class for fighting other players, etc.
You're a BM, maybe you can be grinding at physical mobs, then getting attacked by a Mage from the air, and you can quickly and efficiently change your Physical Marrow to Magical Marrow, jump on your sword, go after the Wizard, change your Heavy Armors for Light Armors in the way, recast Marrow, start stunning and chasing the Wizard. Because your quick bars are designed for this, and you're used to the skills of other oponents, so you can recognize them and know what is attacking you without having to look around. Maybe you can do this as fast as an skilled PvP player from LC, or maybe even faster.
So, if you can do that, if some players at the PvE Servers are that good at PvP, if they enjoy PvP as much as LC people, if they are willing to improve at their class overall, at 1vs1, PK, TW or even duels...then why waste your talent on that server? Come to Lost City to show what you really got.
As I said, there's always a reason why people decide to go to a PvE server, or an PvP one. And that, already makes a huge difference between both servers.
EDIT: An experienced player, will know that, where there's PvP, there will be drama, there will be "i > u n00b!! u ****!!", there will be stubborn, prideful, egoistical, *********,etc . But will also know that, where there's PvP, there will be really good and skilled players, able to give them a challenge, doesn't matter how stubborn, annoying, or prideful that person can be, an experienced player that enjoys PvPing won't mind taking the bad things, to get the real challenges the server can offer him/her.0 -
It seems that you dont understand classes. Yes archers and casters get higher overal dmg boos (same%) but they also have MUCH lower HP and Def then barb whitch can also break casters channeling. Did you ever tryed "ra-pe" barb as caster ? If i say its not easy, then its understatement.well you are from heavenpvetear no wonder you cant understand...
barbarian and wr damage is much lower than other DD class as cleric mage archer venomancer
if archer damage is 20000 and barbarian damage is 5000 its easy to understand(also for you that play a pve server) 30% damage of 20k(7k extra) is more high than 30% of 5k(1.5k)
this blessin only **** all build your char is strong only with pure damage stats
mage goes full int cleric full int archer full dex venomancer full int is pointless to use ibryd build because with pure damage and 30% off can ra-pe everyclass 1-2 hits at 90
all gears are obsolete is pointless to have +10 set when ur enemy can bypass ur defence doing full damage +2k hp cant save you .
i would like 1 reply from a GM why hell this blessing is still ingame
And i have yet to see veno "ra-pe" anyone, unless you trying kill their pet 1st.
Only class that is really strong in PVP is archer, at least until realy high lvl.
Here maybe i play on PVE, but that doesnt mean i didnt play PVP in my 14 years MMO experience0 -
At LC, Mages or Archers, start building their characters since the very beggining to be able to kill at PvP. Like Mages going Light Armor build, to own meele classes. Or Archers stacking as much evasion as they can to not being hitted by Axe users. Or stacking as much defense as possible.
They + their equipment, with HP or Pdef shards, so here Mages and Archers doesn't have that much lower HP or physical defense. Don't forget the speed equipment to run away from those meele classes without getting touched.
Maybe you have 14 years of MMORPG experience, and you know how PvP is. But you're not experiencing it as same as people on the PvP server, because you're at Heavens Tear.0 -
I agree that this is rather ugly. The 30% extra damage does wonders for me, but I know that between that and flying in TW, pvp and tw have both become much more unbalanced for different classes. It would be nice if the effect would only come into play against mobs.As a Guild,
Live as One, fight as One, win as One.
Strength in Unity,
Order through Chaos,
Victory united.0 -
It needs to be taken out as fast as possible. Who cares if mobs die faster my concern is pvp balance and this blessing breaks it in many ways.
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Or, they can do it this way:
Have the jones blessing not activate for pvp.
As in, the damage bonus is given only when you are fighting mobs, but when you attack another player the attack level provided by Jones Blessing does not apply.
Do it in a similar fashion as Knockback, where it only works on mobs.
That way, it would be a nice item to add to the game, while in pvp it doesn't provide mages and archers that extra heap of damage.
OR, have the Jones Blessing add +30 defense level as well, to even it out.
Anyhow, what I said about what I thought "real" pvp was, is only a matter of personal opinion.0 -
I just hope they don't add this ones to cash shop :P0
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Ah, the joys of server arguments derailing the original topic. Not that I'm gonna help much in fixing that. >.>Lyndura - Lost City wrote:At PvP server you will find people spamming drama at World Chat almost all the time, "omg! i own u n00b, u hid @ sf zne lolololol".
You will find people learning all they can about PvP since they hit level 30.
You will find guilds specialy interested in PKing people.
You will find level 70-80's killing level 30-50's. (getting money out from their dropped equipment)
You will find people willing to spend insane amounts of money just to become the best at their class or the best at the server in PvP.
You will find a lot of people improving at PvP whenever they want to or not. The ones that do, are always testing, making, doing, new stuff just to beat their oponents.
You will find people bringing friends or even their whole guild to bring you/your party down.
Poor people having to deal against those rich ones with endless charms.
You will find factions having KoS on you or your faction, and having to deal with them almost all the time you spend playing.
It amuses me here that you've essentially bullet-pointed most of the reasons I suspect people choose pve servers over pvp. Certainly are the reasons I did. Although the primary was is your 4th point: "You will find level 70-80's killing level 30-50's. (getting money out from their dropped equipment)"
This is akin to a high schooler running into a playground to kick kindergartners because they think it makes them a badass. Who then usually hide inside the high school building when the older siblings come out to protect the younger.
In my eyes, this is nothing more then griefing. I'm sure someone will defend the reasons for doing such things, but it doesn't make the analogy any less correct. It's still someone beating up people who cannot even hope to win with tactics and greater numbers. (And kindergartners can at least hope to win with either, really.)
But, I must say that it's honestly folly to believe everyone on a PVE server has no idea what it's like to be on a PVP. And not even because we've taken part in things like TW. I come from the Malaysian server - as do a great number of people I know on HT, and even more that I don't - which are PVP servers. Infact, they won't even entertain the idea of having the pvp toggle. I played there longer then PWI has been open, including the CB time. I've dealt with the whole list of situations you've bullet pointed numerous times. But, I simply do not find such things enjoyable. Not my play style. My enjoyment of PK comes with having a defined purpose and goal beyond just beating someone down. (Yes, I just prefer TDM, CTF, and other such style pvp modes over pure DM.) So I happily take part in Territory Wars. I've massacred, and been slaughtered by, innumerable people in the Dragon Palace. And I'll join any new pvp events that open.
And, as I run around white-named at almost all times (I actually do it to beat up pillars in FBs for chi. Far too useful that.), I've even dealt with being jumped in zhen (AoE), nuked by friends while fighting bosses (albeit accidentally and without the intention to kill me. Not that they'd have beaten the cleric heals at the time even if they were trying), and randomly attacked by higher levels while mat-farming. These things still happen, even on HT, just not to the extent they can and likely do on LC.
Anyway, as for the primary topic of this thread: I'm personally still surprised Jones is still in. But it's kinda nice all the same. And I've honestly yet to see too much of an imbalance issue with it even in pvp (note the above situations, which have happened before and during the blessing being around). I've dealt with nuker and pvp mages (veno and wizards) without any more problem then normal. I've even fought an honest pvp built/loving archer the same level as me (and yes, he's good at it) while we both had one on, and I've still won all our bouts. I'm sure that'll change in time, but I highly doubt whether or not the blessing is worn at the time will have any bearing on the situation.
To be honest, the only time the blessing has caused any problems was in Twilight Temple when mine vanished, and the party I was with started doing more damage then I could apparently keep up with easily agro-wise. But that's Wizards for ya.
--Oh, and the Blessing does in fact add +30% - for the one who says it doesn't add the %. But it's a conditional % bonus. There's two opposing ratings: Attack and Defense. (I forget if they have a more specific name at present.) Neither of these are specifically Physical Attack/Defense, nor Magical Attack/Defense. It's an all encompassing factor. The Blessing adds +30 to that attack rating. For ever 1 that that Attack rating is over your target's Defense rating, you gain a +1%. No players have a defense rating above 0 (to my knowledge), and as far as many of us know, neither do any mobs. (I sorta suspect bosses may have this, but who knows, really. And if they do, hopefully that +30 is countering or at least lessening whatever bonus they may have.) So, in short, you're getting the full +30% against everything.
I do kinda wish there was an option between an attack or defense blessing though. Tanking better ftw! (at least for me). But it's not a big deal either way. And I honestly suspect that, though it has been in for some time longer then expect, Jones and his blessing will not be around forever. Just enjoy it while you can0 -
i would like to know what game was out 14 years ago that you could consider an "MMO"0
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Is the Staff going to answer this/remove the item ?0
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I seriously doubt they're going to remove it over a few complaints because people are deliberately not using them and then complaining about those who do. That's like saying we should get rid of DQ altogether, simply because some people are not doing it.0
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i would like to know what game was out 14 years ago that you could consider an "MMO"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_games0 -
Venoblood - Heavens Tear wrote: »I seriously doubt they're going to remove it over a few complaints because people are deliberately not using them and then complaining about those who do. That's like saying we should get rid of DQ altogether, simply because some people are not doing it.
The attack charm was supposed to be a halloween event item, not a permanent one. DQ as in Dragon Quest is a part of the game itself since the beginning. So no, it's not like saying we should get rid of DQ alltogether, simply because some people are not doing it. Next.0 -
What raven is trying to say is right now dmg dealers r doing too much damage, and players have to alter their pvp style for this event,
Also in TW it makes it nearly impossible for Attack faction to win due to no catapult carrier's can handle this damage right now, therefore I have held out on attacking a guild and I am still waiting.... and weeks go by until finally they remove this, then I am confident my cata pullers can survive the damage from the enemy DD classes....
But until then... im taking out noob factions b/c its unrealistic to think any guild near BloodLusT strength such as conqueror could not defend atm with how many DD's they have + focus fire, think about it 10 out of 80 people in the TW focus me with 12.5k hp in catform. Well 10 people with 30% more dmg on each turns into....nearly 14 .... thats a problem, no way a catapult can survive that much damage lmao. So I have been forced to alter my TW strategy and planning due to this event, and that alone is reason enough to me that it should be done away with. Altering of PvP TW and gameplay due to an event is a bit much. You could probably say it has altered the TW map on Lost City permanently, I imagine whichever guild loses when the fight does happen, will go to pieces
Anyways, please think of it from a guild leader perspective trying to coordinate and strategize TW attack, it honestly has altered my plans for weeks now. And soon who knows, it may be used to take the 1st major city on the game, due to having 80 people 30% more dmg on bosses... make it was easier... 80 people turns into 112 or sumtin zzzz... jus consider GM and please do away with b:surrender0 -
As much as I like Jones' blessing (being a wizard and all), it definitely gives an unfair advantage to ranged classes in TW.
With this blessing, i can 1-shot some classes my own level from the AIR with my 2 spark skills... how screwed up is that? 1 shotting a group of archers and wizzies ... from the air...
It would be better if there were 2 possible buffs you could take, 1 option for the +30 attack refining level, and another for +30 defense refining level. Pick one and you have to take that for the week. Barbs and def build classses would choose the +30 defense, and attack classes would choose +30 offense. That way it all evens out in PvP/ TWs.0 -
Junon - Heavens Tear wrote: »Suck it up.
PVP on any game is always a drama/ego boosting fest, the pvpers on this game are no different. *Kills players* "LOL I R SUPERIOR."
PvP is PvP on both servers be it optional or free. I see white names on HT everyday. Can we go around killing anyone we want? lol no. Mostly high levels go white name making them have to kill those near or a couple of levels above them. While you guys can kill anyone at 30 and above.
Please explain to me what "real" PvP is. That's if you can step down from your pedestal for a sec.
Shut up... You're in a pve server and you're still low lvl. That's foolish noob talk you speak b:bye0 -
Meanmean - Heavens Tear wrote: »Shut up... You're in a pve server and you're still low lvl. That's foolish noob talk you speak b:bye
Do you know what the word hypocrite means or do you need to be lv 86? If your level is what makes you feel special then by all means continue your way of thinking.
I always lol'd irl when someone brought up something as stupid as that. But now it's not funny anymore because I've come to the realization that there are too many idiots like you who pvp with that kind of logic.b:sad0 -
I like the idea of disabling it for PvP and keeping it in the game forever muwahahaha!!!
To be honest I like 2 shotting the level 76 Dragon Maids South of Nameless Isle...b:laughI like pie0 -
Meanmean - Heavens Tear wrote: »Shut up... You're in a pve server and you're still low lvl. That's foolish noob talk you speak b:bye
The most **** statement I've read so far.
IMO Junon has a good point.0 -
Dont Complain About The Jones Blessing!!! God Damn! That Is The Best Tool Ever ****!!!"Death is just a new path, a path everyone has to take." -Gandalf0
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Zethanal - Heavens Tear wrote: »Dont Complain About The Jones Blessing!!! God Damn! That Is The Best Tool Ever ****!!!
You cant even pk yet b:angry0 -
I agree - it's dumb and ruining the fun and fairness of the game. I normally like this game for having one of the most balanced classes (not perfectly to a pretty good job compared to other games)... but this ruins it!0
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All you need to do is look at the numbers
EP Tempest.
400% weapon damage + 9356 damage
Add 200% for spark
Add 30% for blessing
With my current status, and I am not even a full magic cleric, base without spark and blessing.
25k damage
Add 200% for spark
50k damage
Add 30% for blessing
65k damage
Means as it is now, over 16k pvp damage, before resists. Group killer
Without, blessing, 12.5k damage before resists. Some of the group lives.
Really becomes insane post 89 because now they can advanced spark and cast their tempest.0 -
I agree also - the blessings need to be removed. And I don't mean remove and add to cash shop either. That's a sure way to get the whole lost city server to quit the game. These blessings are HORRIBLE for pvp/pk..
Any mage can come out of nowhere and 1 shot an entire party with their doom spells even without hell or heaven fury. Any archer can also 1 shot most classes with their arrow arrays..
The classes were almost perfectly balanced before this..now mages and archers are way overpowered. I'm a light armor wf, geared for pk..with these blessings I may as well be a robe armor with no hp at all.
What do you want everyone to do? go re-roll to mage classes so we can have mage vs mage fights who can cast their spell faster to win?..
Flying in tw was bad enough now you add this. TW is impossible for a fair fight with the blessings. I want to TW and I mean by attacking another powerful guild, not some low level guild so I feel bad for winning in 5minutes when they did nothing to us.b:surrender
And I'm sure anyone who is a active pker/pvper will agree with this. If you only pve please go back to grinding your mobs for 16 hrs a day thanks0 -
Try being a low hp class, like a cleric or wizard, and this thing is a blessing, really.
And don't pull that c*** card "You come from HT/PvE server." Believe me, I've played PvP and TW's before, so I know how much of a pain in the *** they can be. In fact, that's one of the reasons Elysium fell apart on HT.
And @Mieze, every guild knows this now, so everyone still has the same advantage by agressively recruiting DDs.
Also, some response bias: people who hate this thing more are more likely to respond to this petition.0 -
Junon - Heavens Tear wrote: »Do you know what the word hypocrite means or do you need to be lv 86? If your level is what makes you feel special then by all means continue your way of thinking.
I always lol'd irl when someone brought up something as stupid as that. But now it's not funny anymore because I've come to the realization that there are too many idiots like you who pvp with that kind of logic.b:sad
You calling me a hypocrite must mean you actually believe I'm a lvl 1 character from Heaven's Tears.
God no.... If I was I wouldn't be saying that. If I'm an idiot then you're a ****. I didn't mean to make you pve noobs attack me like this b:chuckle
Look, you can laugh still about this but know that you are the softness that makes Haven's Tears soft b:surrender QQ
And for that lvl 3 veno.... Go lvl.0 -
Any PvP affected by level, time spent playing, and amount of money spent is broken. b:bye Go play CS or GuildWars and see how "skillful" u guys really r in a balanced PvP environment b:victory
anyways, Jones is FTW! i'd like it if he stayed forever b:dirty0 -
Meanmean - Heavens Tear wrote: »You calling me a hypocrite must mean you actually believe I'm a lvl 1 character from Heaven's Tears.
God no.... If I was I wouldn't be saying that. If I'm an idiot then you're a ****. I didn't mean to make you pve noobs attack me like this b:chuckle
Look, you can laugh still about this but know that you are the softness that makes Haven's Tears soft b:surrender QQ
And for that lvl 3 veno.... Go lvl.
Thank you for proving my point that PvP is nothing but a drama/ego boosting fest. And I've seen you post about how you were on lost city so why would I go and think that's your only character?
Let me simplify what I said for you. You say I'm talking foolish noob talk, well don't you think this is sorta like the pot and kettle hm? Wait what am I saying? An ego boosting Lost **** player like you wouldn't understand.
You kill players, I kill monsters. You like to make a big deal out of that? Pretty sad. I love how you act like there's no PvP or drama whatsoever on our server. But then again whats so good about drama when there's enough of it in real life? I know your server is full of drama queens but I play this game to have fun, I don't care if I'm better than someone else or not.
Like I've told others before, I played a PvP based game called Rohan. It was full of whiners, ego boosters, and drama queens Lost **** is no different. Hence why I went to the PvE server where I play my way. You may get off to repeating quests because players PK you during them, but unlike you I hate wasting time.0 -
There are tons of reasons why the blessing should be gone
- Was only supposed to be an Halloween Event
- Kills the PvP Balance ( Nukers/Archers are overpowered with such a blessing)
- TW is messed (No cata pullers can tank 30% more damage / people targeting them when focus fired)
- The blessing is simply an attack one, for it to even be fair to begin with it would of required a defense one.
- I heard in the CN version it's in the cashshop. Such thing would make people who use it much stronger than the average non-CSing player. It's already hard with some classes because of the cost and the fact that the Hierograms are pretty much a must-have in pvp.. dolls too. It's enough to make people quit over it.
I understand some people way want it to stay because it makes leveling much easier/faster but people leveled to a high level without it already, I'm pretty sure you can live without it for the sake of balanced PvP.
I also know the decision is not up to the GMs/Mods that read these forums but if anything please read this and try to convince the people in charge that it's a really bad idea and that a large amount of concerned players are quite unhappy about the fact that it may stay forever.
It would also be nice if people took their PvP vs PvE server fight elsewhere not to get this topic locked. Were trying to make a point here about a feature that will change the game forever.Psynopsis - Heavens Tear wrote: »And @Mieze, every guild knows this now, so everyone still has the same advantage by agressively recruiting DDs.
Because everyone can do it doesn't make it fair. It's just ditching some classes and kills whatever balance we had before.0 -
After reading that thread: To think the PvPers often call us carebears/whiners just make me giggle... b:laughb:laughb:laugh
QQ[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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