About "Bugs/Exploits"
Comments
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Veno's flying and killing stuff, that is bad bad bad, but I see archers do it too and it is ok.
Why is it ok for a archer to fly all day killing lots and lots and lots of monsters and never getting hurt, yet a veno is not allowed to kill one boss that way.
Oh well, since I am blademaster, I just stick me green glowy axes in their pointy little heads and do not think much about it.
But really, they should start banning archers that kite as well. Not just single out one class. And the mages that shoot and run away, how fair is that to the monsters?
We make new rule. You can fly only if monster is flying. You have to stand on ground if they are on ground. You must be swimming if they are in water, so no more standing on shore and hitting/shooting sharks. No more hiding on island and using archers to shoot snakes (including snake boss) across the water. No more running away, you stand toe to toe with them.
And for those that are gonna say, UGLY, you being silly, I am just pointing out that the **'s started being silly first.
REALLY, when I heard about the veno's flying and attacking things, and that was against the rules, I saw archers doing it and I reported them because they were breaking the rules. Then I found out it is only some classes that are not allowed to do it and then ONLY some of the time, rest of the time they can.
Course I thought being a BM was easy, but now I see it is gonna be hella hard to be a blademaster. I find there are places in TW I am not allowed to be, and those places move around. I am not allowed to be in a large group of players either incase someone wants to target one of them or target me, and I can not be on top of turrents nor inside a turrent, not inside a catapult, inside a veno pet, nope not there either, can not be in spot where turrents are built incase someone wants to build one, no shooting though walls, no AOE though walls, so I got to keep away from walls incase someone on other side when I AOE.
Well, for now, I still can stand at gate and AOE stun the catapult pullers as they come though so our mages can kill em. Well, I can for now anyway, I know soon that be against the rules too. Then no more 8 second immune powders and no more HP pots during pvp and no more 4 or 6 attacking one player, we will do TW as one on one, tank to tank, mage to mage, etc.0 -
Let's be real here. It won't get fixed. Since this version is supposedly directly affiliated with beijing, then this bug would've never existed in this version at all because they would've already known about it in their own/other versions. It has existed since like forever, so nothing is gonna be done about it.Yes it's a bug, and yes it has been reported to our developers in China. Now in the meantime, anyone caught abusing this mechanic is subject to punishment.
Just because a bug exists, does not mean it's open for exploitation until it's fixed.
Feel free to ban people though. I just wanted to clear that up.
And while I'm here, why aren't people trying to get venos banned for using a supposedly bugged skill with their pets?0 -
Veno's flying and killing stuff, that is bad bad bad, but I see archers do it too and it is ok.
Why is it ok for a archer to fly all day killing lots and lots and lots of monsters and never getting hurt, yet a veno is not allowed to kill one boss that way.
Oh well, since I am blademaster, I just stick me green glowy axes in their pointy little heads and do not think much about it.
But really, they should start banning archers that kite as well. Not just single out one class. And the mages that shoot and run away, how fair is that to the monsters?
We make new rule. You can fly only if monster is flying. You have to stand on ground if they are on ground. You must be swimming if they are in water, so no more standing on shore and hitting/shooting sharks. No more hiding on island and using archers to shoot snakes (including snake boss) across the water. No more running away, you stand toe to toe with them.
And for those that are gonna say, UGLY, you being silly, I am just pointing out that the **'s started being silly first.
REALLY, when I heard about the veno's flying and attacking things, and that was against the rules, I saw archers doing it and I reported them because they were breaking the rules. Then I found out it is only some classes that are not allowed to do it and then ONLY some of the time, rest of the time they can.
Course I thought being a BM was easy, but now I see it is gonna be hella hard to be a blademaster. I find there are places in TW I am not allowed to be, and those places move around. I am not allowed to be in a large group of players either incase someone wants to target one of them or target me, and I can not be on top of turrents nor inside a turrent, not inside a catapult, inside a veno pet, nope not there either, can not be in spot where turrents are built incase someone wants to build one, no shooting though walls, no AOE though walls, so I got to keep away from walls incase someone on other side when I AOE.
Well, for now, I still can stand at gate and AOE stun the catapult pullers as they come though so our mages can kill em. Well, I can for now anyway, I know soon that be against the rules too. Then no more 8 second immune powders and no more HP pots during pvp and no more 4 or 6 attacking one player, we will do TW as one on one, tank to tank, mage to mage, etc.
Thank you for this much needed laugh today. Such a satirical way of putting it and it's so freaking true. We continue down this ridiculous path of "ban everything and anything that makes a the server carebears go QQ", then soon we will be getting banned for pking people that aren't expecting you, or potting in pvp. Heck let's flip this around a bit! We mayt end up getting banned for exploiting the Safe Zone! OH noes, your exploiting the safe zone, I can't kill you while you are in there and that gives you an unfair advantage, QQ!0 -
In your example above where a flying pet is "tanking" said boss, the boss is not attacking back, he is bugged. Yes it's a bug, and yes it has been reported to our developers in China. Now in the meantime, anyone caught abusing this mechanic is subject to punishment.
Just because a bug exists, does not mean it's open for exploitation until it's fixed.
One thing to say to that: Yes it does.
Said it before, I'll say it again. The bug exists because the developer's made a mistake, not the player's fault. Consider it an encouragement to do what's right and fix it. However, I know there's no convincing people with ban powers to change their mind, so I'll just leave it at that and wait to see what happens when the other much anticipated MMO's [that handle these situations correctly] come out.0 -
So ultimately, what is the real problem?
The real problem can be broken down into 3 parts:
1. Lazy developers who never bother to fix these 4+ years old bugs. Although that implies that it is never a bug in the first place; why fix something not broken.
2. Inexperienced players feeling cheated because other players know the game more than they do; so now in order to get back at these veteran players, complain to the GMs and get them banned.
3. Inexperienced GMs who judge the situation without knowing the mechanics of the game (ie: how the game system was designed). eg. "monsters going through walls" IS a design of the game, not a bug nor exploit.
What's the solution?
Part 1, we are powerless to change. This solely depends on the developers. Although, a lower revenue may give a motivation boost for the devs to get the work done sooner.
Part 2, we can change. The players should learn from their loss and grow stronger. Don't be a whiner or sore loser against a more knowledgable player. These veteran players spent much more time in the game, so naturally they would know more about the game.
Part 3, the GMs can change. Learn the game, be reasonable with the system and pass judgements in compliance with the existing system.0 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »Illegal? Don't count on it. Read this from the ToS
"Please note that regardless of any notice, PWE reserves the right to discontinue the Service or to terminate or suspend your account at any time in its sole discretion for any reason, or for no reason."
They can ban you for any reason or for NO reason and you agreed to that by creating an account.
Oh well not whole eula is acceptable in all countries.
In some canceling accounts or avoiding liability vithout valid reason is agains law, especialy in case you are paying for it (ie buying zen).
They are usualy considered fraud.0 -
EDIT: thanks GM and/or mod who deleted the post before me[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
~ Through the darkest of nights, we shall shine brightly, revealing the path to both friendship and glory ~
Kelovar, Radiance executor
Thanks ForsakenX for the sig *_*0 -
So ultimately, what is the real problem?
The real problem can be broken down into 3 parts:
1. Lazy developers who never bother to fix these 4+ years old bugs. Although that implies that it is never a bug in the first place; why fix something not broken.
2. Inexperienced players feeling cheated because other players know the game more than they do; so now in order to get back at these veteran players, complain to the GMs and get them banned.
3. Inexperienced GMs who judge the situation without knowing the mechanics of the game (ie: how the game system was designed). eg. "monsters going through walls" IS a design of the game, not a bug nor exploit.
What's the solution?
Part 1, we are powerless to change. This solely depends on the developers. Although, a lower revenue may give a motivation boost for the devs to get the work done sooner.
Part 2, we can change. The players should learn from their loss and grow stronger. Don't be a whiner or sore loser against a more knowledgable player. These veteran players spent much more time in the game, so naturally they would know more about the game.
Part 3, the GMs can change. Learn the game, be reasonable with the system and pass judgements in compliance with the existing system.
AGREE 100% times 2!0 -
Ok so venomancers with pets that can tank...see no issues there. Using pet to tank boss with boss not fighting back, problem. Except that as I understand it isn't a problem to the developers who /epicfail at fixing it and or publish an official announcement about it being bannable. Thus I see no problem, you don't seem to care why should players?). You can't tell me they can't do a system message to announce it upon login in. WoW does that all the time you log in you get a little update thingy in you message window ei "Welcome to the World of Warcraft! Patch xx.xxx is live! Season Y of the Arena has now begun!" something I mean crickeys I see system messages for the stupid marriage system ALL THE TIME in the game I don't care if so and so married what's his face. not like they really gain anything from it. Or how about for the halloween event "The duke shouts (insert name) has just aquired midnight, or halloween armor set, or whatever." WHO CARES?! grats to them but who cares seriously.
Spam all the unimportant stuff can't even post on the start up screen or anywhere where all players can see it that an exploit has been found and using it is bannable.
GG PWI GG put some more skill points in your priorities skill and maybe people wont complain for eleventeen pages about something that should have been fixed a patch or two later upon its discovery.
BTW Grats to those that got married. So glad I got that information before I know the venomancer issue was bannable...
I understand business enough to know this game is free you make cash off your cash shop so if people don't buy you don't have cash to pay people to fix problems on top of paying GM's developers and what not.
In the mean time you have the means to let players know what can cause banning bug wise and ban those that continue to do it.0 -
I don't get what is sooo hard to understand,.,,
Standing inside the catapult is a strategy NOT a bug. You can easily target the catapult puller with a click of the shift key {same as targeting a npc thru the mass of idiots with shops right on top of them}
if you are a veno and don't have the team to kill the boss properly then wait until you are stronger. {JUST LIKE ANY OTHER BOSS} The ppl turning these venos in are the ones waiting for half an hour while they wack at the glitched boss. If the rest of us take the time to get a party together, and kill the darn thing... why shouldn't a veno?
Plain and SIMPLE there is a reason you have to "SCROLL DOWN" before the accept button is highlighted and available for you to click on when you make an account. The admin want you to take the time to read thru their rules... if you don't and get banned for doing something stupid... you can't claim "I didn't know" just because you gave the "illusion" of reading them.
When you walk into a store,, they have "shoplifters will be prosecuted" on the doors... but are you going to steal something... get caught then claim "well they should have locked it up to keep me from stealing it, and I'm not required to read the door"?
Bottom line is just because you can doesn't mean you should.
"Well if this is bannable ...then this and this and this should be too" pfft Easy to point fingers in any direction but your own.0 -
The above post is a classic example of a noobie wanting to be pro.
Don't try to teach others unless you know how to do it.
(shift-click bwahahahaha)0 -
Not if you spend real money in your account; then it becomes unfair business practice.
In real life, things are different when money is involved. I'm a lawyer (to be), I should know
EDIT: an example where that EULA will fail in court. If you spend thousands of dollars in your account, obey to every rules but the GM doesn't like you and ban your account for no reason. The company will lose in the lawsuit.
This is simply not true. No company in this business has ever lost a lawsuit based on the reasons you stated. Please direct me to a lawsuit/court case that has resulted in the company being found liable and or guilty of anything in regards to the previously stated situations.0 -
(l) Using or exploiting any bugs, errors, or design flaws to obtain unauthorized access to the Service or to gain an unfair advantage over other players.
You would have to ban/punish every veno in game using a bee with bleed... b:lipcurl0 -
Well, it's friday and still no words from the GMs regarding the "hiding in catapult". No official word about whether it's allowed or not, implies that they don't care.
So we'll play as how we see fit.0 -
Well, it's friday and still no words from the GMs regarding the "hiding in catapult". No official word about whether it's allowed or not, implies that they don't care.
So we'll play as how we see fit.
So says Xarfox when speaking of the catapult incident.
"We will soon be revising the Territory War rules in order to include the abuse listed in the above post. In the future, if you ever see anyone abusing this bug, please submit screenshots via our Customer Support Ticketing System at:
http://support.perfectworld.com/ticketing"
This is also now on the TW page.
"Note: Anyone found to be participating in Territory Wars in a manner different than what Perfect World Entertainment deems as "intended gameplay" will be subject to punishment. If a guild is ever caught abusing a function or system in a fashion that Perfect World Entertainment feels is "against the spirit of Perfect World International", the offending members will be punished, as well as the leader of the offending guild. "Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »So says Xarfox when speaking of the catapult incident.
"We will soon be revising the Territory War rules in order to include the abuse listed in the above post. In the future, if you ever see anyone abusing this bug, please submit screenshots via our Customer Support Ticketing System at:
http://support.perfectworld.com/ticketing"
This is also now on the TW page.
"Note: Anyone found to be participating in Territory Wars in a manner different than what Perfect World Entertainment deems as "intended gameplay" will be subject to punishment. If a guild is ever caught abusing a function or system in a fashion that Perfect World Entertainment feels is "against the spirit of Perfect World International", the offending members will be punished, as well as the leader of the offending guild. "
Yar yar yar... I've seen that quote more than the number of times that I asked the question. All that quote means is that the GMs are DODGING THE QUESTION. A simple answer of yes and no would suffice, and it doesn't even need an explaination.
The sole reason why the GMs are doding the question is because they do not want to upset the noobs by allowing "hiding in the catapult", which can lead to some noobs leaving the game; and they also do not want to upset the pros by disallowing "hiding in the catapult" because massive number of pros will also leave the game.
Therefore, the best solution is to pretend that they can't hear our question and don't bother answering our question directly; instead, they promise to "review" each case if it's suspicious.
Anyway, I am still hoping that a GM would step up and answer the community that question today - a direct answer please, a simple YES or NO is all needed.
EDIT: It's been over 96 hours (4 days), and I still haven't heard a PM reply on the question from Xarfox either, he must be a busy man.0 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »So says Xarfox when speaking of the catapult incident.
"We will soon be revising the Territory War rules in order to include the abuse listed in the above post. In the future, if you ever see anyone abusing this bug, please submit screenshots via our Customer Support Ticketing System at:
http://support.perfectworld.com/ticketing"
This is also now on the TW page.
"Note: Anyone found to be participating in Territory Wars in a manner different than what Perfect World Entertainment deems as "intended gameplay" will be subject to punishment. If a guild is ever caught abusing a function or system in a fashion that Perfect World Entertainment feels is "against the spirit of Perfect World International", the offending members will be punished, as well as the leader of the offending guild. "
I have to "lol" at this..."..what Perfect World Entertainment deems as "intended gameplay...""
In plainer terms, they can twist **** as they see fit to satisfy the noobs and get them to stop bitchin... Said it a million times, if it's not intended then fix it and stop pissing off the hardcore players to please th carebears...0 -
Sorry Angrybear when you stop spitting on me with your anger I will respond.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Aurumfaramon - Heavens Tear wrote: »Sorry Angrybear when you stop spitting on me with your anger I will respond.
Not anger, it's common sense. When games have flaws, the devs should fix them. I've never played a successful game where the devs bow to the people that ***** and complain to get what they want. I'll even give you an example. Guild Wars was an AMAZING game for a couple years. Then they starting bringing out the nerf stick, which I think in this case should be called "nerf bomb" since "stick" doesn't even describe the extremity of the nerfs. I played the game for 3 years along with MANY players. Once the Devs starting bowing to the noob complaints, ANY experienced player will tell you the game went downhill from there. Most of the people I know that have played for 2+ years have quit due to this since anytime they come with a working skill build, it gets nerfed. Based off that, I don't see this game getting too far in the future if they continue down this road.0 -
they don't EXPLAIN what "intended gameplay" is. HOW the **** are people supposed to know what the intended gameplay is if they never say what is or isn't intended?Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »"Note: Anyone found to be participating in Territory Wars in a manner different than what Perfect World Entertainment deems as "intended gameplay" will be subject to punishment. If a guild is ever caught abusing a function or system in a fashion that Perfect World Entertainment feels is "against the spirit of Perfect World International", the offending members will be punished, as well as the leader of the offending guild. "0 -
*No advertising for other MMOs.*0
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markillian wrote: »they don't EXPLAIN what "intended gameplay" is. HOW the **** are people supposed to know what the intended gameplay is if they never say what is or isn't intended?
My point exactly...0 -
So PW-MS apparently has better support, better GMs, better prices... Isn't there a saying about things that seem too good to be true?markillian wrote: »they don't EXPLAIN what "intended gameplay" is. HOW the **** are people supposed to know what the intended gameplay is if they never say what is or isn't intended?
This is actually hilarious when I think about it0 -
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And you know the reason why?
In terms of legal issues, it is illegal to ban players for using these bugs without a prior warning.
It is not required that you read the forum to play the game. Unless the official bannable bugs are displayed on the game launcher, banning players for using these bugs the first time is against the law. .
For the players, they read the EULA and agree to it. There is no section in the EULA that list those specific bugs; therefore, it is not possible for the casual players to know that these are bannable bugs by using them. For them, it is just a smarter way to play.
Because of not able to ban these players without prior warning, and because they do not have the time nor the resource to fix these bugs (yet), the staffs just disable the event that associated with those bugs to avoid the frustrations.
My point is... be careful what you wish for.
EDIT: Take the case where HolyHell's guild leader was banned when he used fake guild bidding. If he were to take the matter to court, this company will lose. The reason is that "the bannable fake guild bidding exploit" is never displayed, posted or listed in the game launcher. The forum is an optional participation; it is not required to read the forum to play the game.
LMAO THERES NOT ANY THING IN THIS GAME THEY DO TO YOU IS AGAINST THE LAW .THEY CAN SHUT YOUR ACCOUNT DOWN BANE YOU OR DO WHAT EVER THEY WANT ITS A FREE GAME . ITS THERE GAME THERE WORLD .NOW IF YOU WERE PAYING TO PLAY MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT STORY. IF YOU PLAYED ANY OTHER MMORG THEY BAND FOR SAME THING YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT.SO ITS NOT ILLEGAL. ALL OF YALL DONT AGREE THEN DONT PLAY . YOU EXPLOITE THEN YOU DESERVE TO GET THE PERMA BAND.
b:cry0 -
I don't think anyone here has used the exploit, this thread is about more than just the exploit anyways, its about the conduct of the PW staff.
I bet the admins are just ignoring this thread and hoping that all the disatisfaction about these topics is kept here.
*coughcough*0 -
take this post from sutr in the thread about the TW times:
sutr's post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazue - Heavens Tear
if memory serves, i think the gms are in redwood city, california.
That is correct, yes.
NOTHING about the topic of the thread, nothing about whether or not the TW times will be changed.0 -
Hmm... it appears that these GMs do not have the power to make the decision on these questions being asked.
The delay is probably due the waiting for an answer from China's headquarters.
Then again, maybe these GMs just like to ignore us.0 -
This is the whole purpose to me starting this thread. The GM's need to know EXACLTY what player's are thinking. No watered down ******** or QQ or buttering up the GM's, just gold hard facts.
My hopes is that someone of importance will actually see all this and say, "Hey, this is not good, things need to be stepped up a notch. We want to make sure things are doing correct and fair."
As I mentioned in a different thread, the GM's here are incredibly efficient about answer a player's call in game. You ask for them, they are there to help you. Any other game takes GM's hours if not days to get to you. However, when it comes down to the big issues, such as these bugs/exploits, follow the example set by the successful MMO's out there and do things right. No banhammer.0 -
Eh, the GMs here were just as helpful, if not better than the GMs at PWEU before the game was released. Most games have good GMs at the start. Wait a couple months into OB then decide0
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