TW & Flying (unannounced patch changes)

evrilysis wrote: »

Rofl.

Price changes for Premium Items aren't the same thing as coding and mechanics.

If you're going to post on the forums, you're required to do so in English.

Learn to spell.

Crying about the way the game is designed isn't going to do anything. This thread was **** to begin with.

....Not that i have read the rules or anything, but I bet that nowhere in those rules does it say posts must be in flawless English understandable by even the dumbest idiot. I had no trouble understanding anyone in this thread (and yes, I read all of it, and btw, it's not titles "speak perfect english here and comment on people's bad english").

Don't make me school you, stick to the topic and don't flame for ********.

Now on topic, if the GMs never made an announcement (and someone even said it was a mistake and should be getting fixed), then I am sure they are going to give us some opportunity to get better at TW first before they up the anti with flying. EDIT: I guess I was wrong.
...In Lamen's terms for people that expect everyone to speak THEIR language (I understand 6 languages and am fluent in 2, plus some odd computer languages):
GMs said they did a whoopsie, so they will be fixing it now. OK?


Ignorant fools.

Chiming in on Dvorak's post:

Flying in Territory Wars is not a bug. The Perfect World servers in China have had flying turned on in their Territory Wars for about a year now. Their strategy has adopted, changed, and evolved along with these design changes.

We sincerely apologize for not giving everyone proper notice about this change. From this day forward, we will be providing everyone with thorough patch notes of all gameplay changes.

evrilisys, I truly hope you get your forum privileges revoked for this kind of flame spewing. It's a forum, not an essay, not a university literature class, I am not obliged to speak perfect English (maybe I like to, but i cud aso tak lik dis n' getaway wit eet). The Grammar Police patrolled area is that way *points to Loserville*.

As for the announcement, better late than never. At least now we know for certain that it's not a bug. I find it weird that they would let us be guinea pigs for it so soon when we've hardly had GvG without the flying, but I guess it's time to think up some new strats. I would be surprised if wars last more than an hour now though. On the bright side, we won't have to deal with probably the most powerful item in the game for much longer.

I do wonder what TW would be like if an archer had a berserker sling with extra crit items on it at lvl 105, with Jonas' blessing stacked on that. That would probably take down same level cata pullers in 1 berserker crit lightning skill.

thanks alot GMs for clearify that up there was alot of confusion regarding this issue,, although that i dont like the flying thing , but i guess it will be better after that 30% attack item thingy is gone
thanks again for clarifying the issue , and shazzbott i you ^_^

Quoting from the large thread on this topic:

Dvorak wrote: »

Hello to everyone.

First off let me kick things off by issuing a big fat apology for the unannounced release of the tactical flight element in Territory Wars.

Without revealing too much operational detail, in a nutshell the staffers at PWE were unaware that this feature was incorporated into the most recent patch release (oct. 21). Now that the genie has been released from the bottle, rest assured that we will prevent such 'surprises' from popping up unexpectedly in the future and will release patch notes highlighting any gameplay changes prior to the release of new patches or shortly thereafter.

Now for some info - the inclusion of flight functionality is working as intended and therefore will not be rolled back or removed. Keep in mind that the gameplay aspects of TW is intended to evolve over time and the inclusion of flight functionality is a step in that process. We are also fortunate to be one of just 2 versions of PW to have this feature available (the Chinese version has also had TW flight functionality available for over a year now).

Later today we will also update the TW Information page at:

http://www.perfectworld.com/guide/feature/territory

to highlight the inclusion of flight functionality in TW.

Once again, apologies for any confusion and inconvenience this may have caused. Thank you for your continued support and understanding.

While we do apologize sincerely for not properly informing the players of this change, the decision to make this change was neither hasty nor ill-informed; this change has been live on the Chinese servers for about a year now, and the players there responded by changing their strategies and adapting to the new mechanics, and territory wars there are still as fierce as ever. While we realize the change will prove disruptive in the short term, we expect that players will similarly adapt and invent new strategies to incorporate flight.

Why should TW last more than 30mins? So longer war means it was fair or better or w/e?

I seriousley dont get you ppl, if they made it so only atack or only denfese could fly I'd agree 100%.

Just because you are not used to fighting in the air doesnt mean its going to ruin the game! One of the MAJOR pro's of PW over other mmo's is flight and arial combat. I agree to some extent having a CS flying device gives you an edge but its just something you'll have to get used to.

@ SmexxyFoxx - You play on PvE server you wouldn't know how lame is to wait for a week to have a TW of 30mins. Beside the fact that you can PvP flying is good.. but that's why you have free PvP and TW it's totally different. Allowing to fly during TWs it's just losing the whole point of the damn thing, makes towers and walls useless.. what's the strategy then? fly inside their base rush all and win? wow amazing that'd be really fun.

1. What server we play on makes no difference, its the same rulesets.

2. Uhm the towers and walls are useless anyways, who in their right mind walks down the path when you can just walk between the paths and avoid the towers? There is 3 places you can jump over the wall out of range of the towers at the gates.

3. The towers at the crystal will hit you if you come flying at them or having jumped the wall and walking towards them.

Sooo essentially nothing has changed except that now you have a lot more options and new strategies AANNDDD finally mages and archers get to play a really big role in TW and its not 99% just a case of who has the most stunguns(warriors) to throw at the enemy.

*edit*
I am curious how the catapults behave when somone flying controls them? I'd agree that if some elves with superfast wing fly around over the towers/crystal way out of reach of the towers while the catapults are having a ball downstairs its gonna get quite hairy. Tho somone said u can only fly as high as the walls.. so technically you cant get out of raech of the towers right?

People have already mentioned about making towers and walls become useless. Without flying u could already jump over the wall easily, so that doesn't really change alot. Towers are still usefull as long as u can't fly ridicoulously high like in normal maps. But even if u could, it still wouldn't make much difference since u can just RUN AROUND the damn towers in the previous versions anyways. Making a detour in the shape of an arc in the plane of the ground or perpendicular to it still gives u the same distance ... .

TW becoming a random PVP fest and no more strategy? Im pretty sure it is like that already. If u can give some examples of "strategy" that would be affected by flying, please tell me. If u say that there is no more strategy due to the flying ability, and changing TW into a pvp fest, then you would be implying that there is also no tactics in pvp, which is obviously not the case. The main strategy in TW would be ofcourse the use of catapults (ohnoes, big secret reveiled b:shutup) and is (if I recall from the last TW) unaffected by the flying ability. Even if the puller decides or is able to pull the catapult while flying, there is absolutely no benefit as the catapult remains on the ground. The catapult would (or should) not folow the puller, but also makes the puller 100% vulnerable to people on flying mounts hitting the puller...

They could have also implemented it from day one and no one would have complained.
Im curious how this would work out now, different tactics indeed... The way I see it, there will be no 'only flying' or 'only ground' fights in TW, it will be just a mixture of the two, adding an extra dimension in the game.

@ Tanri - All this isn't simply about tactics.. of course there are tactics on free PvP but TW wasn't meant to allow flying on it, towers and wall are there FOR A REASON. TW as it was had a balance for all classes, everyone had their "job" to do, now it's simply highly unbalanced because of the flying pets, long range classes, it makes it unbalanced and there are no possible startegy on that...EPs can just hover over the cata pullers and make a healing chain to heal him.. what roll could melee classes possible play there.?

BTW, I clicked the link GM gave and read the following...
"Territory wars are exciting and competitive, regardless of whether you're battling another guild for ownership of a territory, or even battling NPCs for a neutral territory. The following rules apply to all Territory Wars:
1. Chi is set to zero once a user enters the battleground.
2. The embrace function is disabled while in the battleground.
3. You can jump, however flying and flying mounts are unavailable in battlegrounds.
4. There is no experience penalty from being killed by monsters in a Neutral Territory War.
5. Anyone who quits or leaves their guild will be instantly ejected from the battleground.
6. In order to participate in your guild's Territory War, you must be a member of your guild for at least 100 hours prior to the war. "

Noticed what NO.3 states...
I am confused now..do they change it or not?

I'm a member in one of the guilds thus far who has had PvP TW the last 2 weeks, a defense before the patch, and a defense after the patch. In both cases, the most guild was able to figure things out and manage capable defense against almost fairly matched guilds.

As far as flying goes, it doesn't really change a thing. Tanks still need to run along roads with catapults in tow, and those tanks still need to be defended. Although air wars are now possible, most of the action still ends up being on the ground where it matters. The main difference is that now it isn't just the gates which need to be watched, but the whole wall. Flying mounts cannot go high enough to avoid turrets, and can still be attacked just as easily from the wall (hitting your fly button before attacking doesn't take that long to do, when you can see them coming). Flying people still take normal damage from turrets, which is usually enough to down most sub 50 casters. As you are flying, the distance to the turret is also harder to judge, so it is far from a carefree infiltration. Honestly, the only way you could sneek into the base and launch a suprise attack against a guild is if they aren't paying attention. Almost every guild has few lower level characters they can post up on the corners to keep watch. If you get attacked from behind, it's really your own fault for not paying attention. Furthermore, unless there are already catapults in the base taking out turrets, anyone who does get inside probably won't last very long, and coordinating a pincer attack probably wouldn't help since the internal turrets are likely still standing.

Also, keep in mind that flight mounts are often slower than how people move, so flying is really slowing down your ability to keep pressure on the enemy. Sure, BMs and Barbs are almost useless in the air, but this is where that little unknown thing called "teamwork" becomes important. I'm not going to sit here and explain strategy or tactics, but a capable guild should be able to manage just as well. It simply means making archers, venos, and clerics have a more vital role to both an offensive and defensive. Afterall, TW before was pretty much all about the Barb, BMs, and wizards. Keep in mind, when you die, you rez back at your base (unless you have alot of idle clerics) and still are sealed, so even if a whole guild were able to just drop into the base for an attack, that guild wouldn't be able to keep up the fight for long, there are invincible turrets near the respawn preventing any sort of spawn camping. If the other turrets are still up, the attackers, no matter how good, won't be lasting long. If the other turrets are taken out, you probably either did something wrong, or didn't have a chance to begin with.

As for it being unnanounced, although this is the case, both my guild and the attacking guild seemed to catch on very quickly, so it was hardly something anyone had an advantage at., regardless, most of the fighting was still decided on the ground. It just changes the game to require a bit more organization... Most would agree that is something which was previously missing in TW.

Torinchibi - Lost City wrote: »

The worst thing that flying caused was the inbalance of defense to offense power. Before, Defenders were favored...as they should be. Now the walls serve very little purpose, and because of the flying, the people that are supposed to stay in the back and take out cata pullers are now easily acessible, making the killing of catapults quite difficult.

Things would have gone smoother if walls were raised up to 23 elevation, with only windows large enough to pass through right above the rocks, and a little opening like a horizontal slit through which defenders could shoot people outside the walls.

If that happens, and also a no fly zone is implemented around the gates, you would get the benefits of flying, while keeping the Defenders' advantage.

A lot of people compared flying to real life combat. If towers were 1 shotting everyone that flies, that analogy would be true. Since they are not it's like bringing in jets to atk soldiers on the ground. Even if you have your own jets in the air, it doesn't make the ground soldiers any more useful.

Both side can be the defender or the attacker. There is no rules forcing any side to just defend. The only problem might be smaller guilds trying to out last the larger guild by huddleing around the crystal.

Tanri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

TW becoming a random PVP fest and no more strategy? Im pretty sure it is like that already. If u can give some examples of "strategy" that would be affected by flying, please tell me.

For one thing, there's no point in a team defending what used to be the ONLY 3 entrances to the Castle.

"Oh damnit, they have a kick **** team defending the entrances. Let's fly over them!"

Wizards! As a DD class, we have absolutely no Physical Def or HP compared to other classes. (Pandora, if you jump in and decide to disagree with me, I don't mind, but don't change the subject with your "Omg Light Armour" point of view. Which I am not saying is wrong by the way.)
Normally, we have a full DD team of Wizards. We are there mainly for backup nuking and ambush.

Now with flying, HOW do we ambush?
"u kan fly 2 numnutz" Yes, I do realize that. However, if you haven't noticed already, there is almost no cover up in the sky. Not to mention that Humans with our bright blue flying swords are extremely noticeable. At least on the ground there are hills and bodies of water.

I don't know if this applies for other classes, but as a Wizard, our damage is reduced by more than half when we're attacking something on the ground from the air.

Before this, Cash Items such as Charms, mounts (WHICH YOU CAN NOT ATTACK FROM) and a few others were still factors. However, with the addition of flying, a new Cash Item is introduced. Who has the best flying mount?

Defending pullers is easier as well, with a team of EA's hovering over the WB. Before, a single Wizard would be able to kill them all with a cast or two of an Ultimate. Don't go saying "Archers can own Wizards, or nobody is stupid enough to have 6 Archers nuked by one Wizard." That's not the point.

I do agree that flying makes TW much more difficult, but for who? Weaker Guilds, definitely. Not only do they have more to defend, but they can be taken out in as little as 10 minutes from a quick opening rush by the opposing Guild. But what about the stronger Guilds? For stronger Guilds such as BloodLusT or Conqueror, flying definitely makes things easier. With many more openings to hop through and attack from, no doubt will it be easier for them to take people out.

During the week it was implemented, our Guild was able to hold off BloodLusT for about half an hour. Without flying, it most undoubtedly would have lasted longer and would have been MUCH more fun.

I'm not "hating on" this new feature, I'm just simply saying. They're clearly not taking it back, so what are you going to do about it?