TW & Flying (unannounced patch changes)

Tomiko - Heavens Tear

june wrote: »

Oooh, flying in TW! They need to update their guide to change where it says flying is not possible.
http://www.perfectworld.com/guide/feature/territory

It certainly changes the dynamics of the entire Territory War.

lol~ PWI got owned by their owned rules.. b:laughb:laughb:laugh

Torinchibi - Lost City

It's not even weaker guilds that this affects. It just shows more with the jonas blessing. In fact, CQ atked BL right now and BL only defended, they would definitely lose. The time limit definitely needs to be shortened or something else needs to be done to give the advantage back to the defenders. Even if there was never any flying implemented and someone just decided to remove the castle walls and put in a mout instead it would be gimping the defense in the same way...Wouldn't make the mass stuns useless against most squishy classes, but it would still obliterate the advantage of defending. I hardly consider towers that do 150dmg to archers any help...hell, you can outpot that without wasting herio.

lilly90

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Btw leap + stun + pewpew = dead robe user in the air. Being in the air also makes it really hard to judge where you will get hit from because you can go behind enemy lines and face problems from all sides.

Saying blademasters where rendered useless is just a gross display in lack of imagination.

I think the whole flying thing opens up a whole new fun aspect to play around with and rather than complain about it we should embrace it and adapt to use it to our advantage.
Everyone pretty much said they want a more challenging TW.. flying gives you that.

again i'm saying , warrior leap maxed =16 meters, mage leap maxed = 25.

vagrant0

Um, have any of you actually fought a Guild Vs Guild TW before going on about how BMs and tanks are useless and how wizards > all? Let me explain something for you, despite what you may want to tell yourself, the only things that matter in a pvp tw are catapults, turrets, and the HQ stone. All of these still need to be approached on the ground, and ultimately have to be defended on the ground. The job of the guild is to either kill off those who have catapults following them (on the ground) or keeping the person with the catapults (on the ground) alive. All the other deaths or kills are unimportant unless directly related to achieving one of those objectives. A wizard in the are won't be hitting ground targets with an AoE because all damage they do would be halved against those on the ground, and likely moving into AoE range would leave them open for anyone else who can deal ranged damage (archers, venos, veno air pets, Archers, clerics, other wizards, archers, and to some extent, even BMs).

From a visibility standpoint, no style of aerocraft is less visible than any other, (seriously, skymants are much easier to spot than anything) and if anything, archers and clerics have a speed advantage over mages. Accelerate, and some speed boosting effects can also *gasp* be used in TW, so a BM can rather easily move in for the kill, especially on someone who is focused on attacking ground targets from the air. Other classes, like those mentioned above, can do an even better job at taking out air based wizards. If they're in the air, don't use your BMs to defend, use a class which can also fight in the air (duh), if they're on the ground, use a class that can hurt them on the ground.

You can't simply fly into a base since the height is limited to only about 10 yards above the wall, which is more than enough distance for both attacks to be made from the wall, and for turrets to do their thing. The reality is that you still can't just own your opponents wall until well after turrets are taken out, and you can't take out those turrets if your catapult people get cut apart and roasted by any BMs or wizards on the ground. What this means is *gasp* turrets need to be defended, and some people need to be on the wall who can take out anyone trying to slip between the cracks. With wizards and BMs being able to scale the walls before, nothing has really changed. And as you can usually see anyone on a aerocraft from a good distance away, a good, organized guild can usually gather more forces on said wall, or in the air above said wall, before anyone gets within spell range. Anyone who thinks wizards are unbeatable in the air, clearly lacks an imagination. They may not die as quickly as they may on the ground, against a BM, but they are FAR from unstoppable.

All of this ultimately means that guilds have to be a bit more diversified, and use what tools are available. You can't just run in brute force with just tanks and BMs while everyone else is just wandering around the map in their own little pvp fights, classes need to work together, and the strengths of one can certainly be used to offset the weaknesses of others. This is, in the long run, a good thing, those guilds which are properly led and coordinated will be able to adjust, those who have no coordination or plans will get beaten... That's about all that this change means, and if you can't cope, you probably didn't deserve that terriroty anyway.

cashrulez2

vagrant0 wrote: »

Um, have any of you actually fought a Guild Vs Guild TW before going on about how BMs and tanks are useless and how wizards > all? Let me explain something for you, despite what you may want to tell yourself, the only things that matter in a pvp tw are catapults, turrets, and the HQ stone. All of these still need to be approached on the ground, and ultimately have to be defended on the ground. The job of the guild is to either kill off those who have catapults following them (on the ground) or keeping the person with the catapults (on the ground) alive. All the other deaths or kills are unimportant unless directly related to achieving one of those objectives. A wizard in the are won't be hitting ground targets with an AoE because all damage they do would be halved against those on the ground, and likely moving into AoE range would leave them open for anyone else who can deal ranged damage (archers, venos, veno air pets, Archers, clerics, other wizards, archers, and to some extent, even BMs).

From a visibility standpoint, no style of aerocraft is less visible than any other, (seriously, skymants are much easier to spot than anything) and if anything, archers and clerics have a speed advantage over mages. Accelerate, and some speed boosting effects can also *gasp* be used in TW, so a BM can rather easily move in for the kill, especially on someone who is focused on attacking ground targets from the air. Other classes, like those mentioned above, can do an even better job at taking out air based wizards. If they're in the air, don't use your BMs to defend, use a class which can also fight in the air (duh), if they're on the ground, use a class that can hurt them on the ground.

You can't simply fly into a base since the height is limited to only about 10 yards above the wall, which is more than enough distance for both attacks to be made from the wall, and for turrets to do their thing. The reality is that you still can't just own your opponents wall until well after turrets are taken out, and you can't take out those turrets if your catapult people get cut apart and roasted by any BMs or wizards on the ground. What this means is *gasp* turrets need to be defended, and some people need to be on the wall who can take out anyone trying to slip between the cracks. With wizards and BMs being able to scale the walls before, nothing has really changed. And as you can usually see anyone on a aerocraft from a good distance away, a good, organized guild can usually gather more forces on said wall, or in the air above said wall, before anyone gets within spell range. Anyone who thinks wizards are unbeatable in the air, clearly lacks an imagination. They may not die as quickly as they may on the ground, against a BM, but they are FAR from unstoppable.

All of this ultimately means that guilds have to be a bit more diversified, and use what tools are available. You can't just run in brute force with just tanks and BMs while everyone else is just wandering around the map in their own little pvp fights, classes need to work together, and the strengths of one can certainly be used to offset the weaknesses of others. This is, in the long run, a good thing, those guilds which are properly led and coordinated will be able to adjust, those who have no coordination or plans will get beaten... That's about all that this change means, and if you can't cope, you probably didn't deserve that terriroty anyway.

you are not a BM are you? I havent heard a single archer or veno complain... coz they know that they are getting all the benefit of the update...

trying playing a melee before you say anything... BM SUCK AT AIR BATTLE it's a well known fact

dekciw

Smexxyfox - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Btw leap + stun + pewpew = dead robe user in the air. Being in the air also makes it really hard to judge where you will get hit from because you can go behind enemy lines and face problems from all sides.

Saying blademasters where rendered useless is just a gross display in lack of imagination.

I think the whole flying thing opens up a whole new fun aspect to play around with and rather than complain about it we should embrace it and adapt to use it to our advantage.
Everyone pretty much said they want a more challenging TW.. flying gives you that.

You play in a PvE server and you try to coach me on PvP, are you delusional or just plain dumb.

neo5566

lol b:surrender TW ruined = = whole work for nothink, what pw to play now lol all dead and 1 more think where is bb amd WaTeR as some one said they in new international server? = =

vagrant0

cashrulez2 wrote: »

you are not a BM are you? I havent heard a single archer or veno complain... coz they know that they are getting all the benefit of the update...

trying playing a melee before you say anything... BM SUCK AT AIR BATTLE it's a well known fact

And you missed the entire idea I was trying to get across... Yes, BM suck in the air, but there is nothing saying that BMs have to do most of their fighting in the air. Just because your character can't do very well against people in the air doesn't mean that those people are untouchable or unkillable, YOU just can't kill them without some difficulty, or someone else from the guild helping. Wizards shouldn't be doing much attacking of BMs in the air because there will likely be clerics, venos, wizards or archers in the air following the BM and covering their back... Or is the concept of teamwork THAT foreign to you? BMs still have a very vital role in offense and defense, and still can do very well in that role without ever having to fly in TW. If you choose to just go running around on your own, caring only about who you personally kill, then yeah, you're gonna get pwned when going against an organized guild, flying or no.

Viriilink - Lost City

Better start studying those CN flying territory war to pick up some tricks. Especially for people complaining about class disadvantages.

Aclucius - Lost City

While you might be saying that the only important things are the catapults, towers, and crystal, you have forgotten that because the clerics can heal and resurrect the tanks that pull the catapults, you must then take them out. Obviously, if they are flying and you cant reach them from the ground, as a blademaster you have to fly. If you fly, you die even quicker. So if no one is on the ground except tanks and blademasters, what exactly do the blademasters do? Once again, they fly and they will die. Either they have to allow Cloud Sprint in the air, or blademasters are useless unless a guild is stupid enough to keep their clerics on the ground.

So, Smexxyfox, the idea of leap is illogical since blademasters can not spam the leap, and they only have one that goes toward an enemy. And Vagrant0, if everyone but the melee classes are flying, how exactly do you plan for blademasters to do what they are supposed to do? If you say to fly, we die instantly because of our slow moving and that mages can do normal damage if we are also flying. Also, if you say we can just leap to them, consider again that we can't spam our leap skill and only have one. Plus, if you would humor to consider it, clerics have a passive skill to be able to fly faster than normal. So they can use their secondary attack to slow us while flying away, and even if we leap, we are still out of range to attack.

I would love for flying to stay in, but not at the expense of the balance of classes being disrupted. Not to mention attacking team now does have an advantage, when it is supposed to be the advantage on the defending side when in a 1:1 ratio of level/classes/etc.

Keef - Lost City

Dvorak wrote: »

Hello to everyone.

First off let me kick things off by issuing a big fat apology for the unannounced release of the tactical flight element in Territory Wars.

Without revealing too much operational detail, in a nutshell the staffers at PWE were unaware that this feature was incorporated into the most recent patch release (oct. 21). Now that the genie has been released from the bottle, rest assured that we will prevent such 'surprises' from popping up unexpectedly in the future and will release patch notes highlighting any gameplay changes prior to the release of new patches or shortly thereafter.

Now for some info - the inclusion of flight functionality is working as intended and therefore will not be rolled back or removed. Keep in mind that the gameplay aspects of TW is intended to evolve over time and the inclusion of flight functionality is a step in that process. We are also fortunate to be one of just 2 versions of PW to have this feature available (the Chinese version has also had TW flight functionality available for over a year now).

Later today we will also update the TW Information page at:

http://www.perfectworld.com/guide/feature/territory

to highlight the inclusion of flight functionality in TW.

Once again, apologies for any confusion and inconvenience this may have caused. Thank you for your continued support and understanding.

Any chance we could hear about the upcoming TW changes? I'm hoping it'd turn into something more like: DAoC's Castles

I understand that game had a larger budget and was pay monthly, but you could take the general idea of having the bases actually be castles, with npcs which you pay with the money earned weekly from holding it, and guilds can obviously pay less or have less npc guards to make more profit.

Also, this could justify the cost of bidding to attack a territory as you would hire some 'mercenaries' to help you in the battle, so highest bidder would get the attack since they can pay the mercs.

anima

Dvorak wrote: »

Hello to everyone.

First off let me kick things off by issuing a big fat apology for the unannounced release of the tactical flight element in Territory Wars.

Without revealing too much operational detail, in a nutshell the staffers at PWE were unaware that this feature was incorporated into the most recent patch release (oct. 21). Now that the genie has been released from the bottle, rest assured that we will prevent such 'surprises' from popping up unexpectedly in the future and will release patch notes highlighting any gameplay changes prior to the release of new patches or shortly thereafter.

Now for some info - the inclusion of flight functionality is working as intended and therefore will not be rolled back or removed. Keep in mind that the gameplay aspects of TW is intended to evolve over time and the inclusion of flight functionality is a step in that process. We are also fortunate to be one of just 2 versions of PW to have this feature available (the Chinese version has also had TW flight functionality available for over a year now).

Later today we will also update the TW Information page at:

http://www.perfectworld.com/guide/feature/territory

to highlight the inclusion of flight functionality in TW.

Once again, apologies for any confusion and inconvenience this may have caused. Thank you for your continued support and understanding.

...I shocked me a bit when I know we can fly in TW. And GM Dvorak, do you know why China PW and Viet PW has flying in TW (yes, Viet PW has flying TW 2 months ago) ? Cause most of player join TW in those servers are 9X, with +8 gears and +10 wpn. If war in normal way, taking land from another guild is extremely hard. Therefore flying was put in to make the war more fair for the atk side ^^.

Now look back in PWI, do we have a 9x yet? Max is 87 or 88 now. Do we have all +5 gears player or +10 wpn player? Flying now just ruin the fun of TW, and ruin the defense side (usually the weaker guild now, compare to the other side) by adding another atk route for the attack guild.

I know you guys using test and fail method, but it is not the right time for flying in TW... too soon for that.

I am an EA, but still offense the flying TW, cause it ruin the fun ><, at least for now.

vagrant0

Aclucius - Lost City wrote: »

While you might be saying that the only important things are the catapults, towers, and crystal, you have forgotten that because the clerics can heal and resurrect the tanks that pull the catapults, you must then take them out. Obviously, if they are flying and you cant reach them from the ground, as a blademaster you have to fly. If you fly, you die even quicker. So if no one is on the ground except tanks and blademasters, what exactly do the blademasters do? Once again, they fly and they will die. Either they have to allow Cloud Sprint in the air, or blademasters are useless unless a guild is stupid enough to keep their clerics on the ground.

So, Smexxyfox, the idea of leap is illogical since blademasters can not spam the leap, and they only have one that goes toward an enemy. And Vagrant0, if everyone but the melee classes are flying, how exactly do you plan for blademasters to do what they are supposed to do? If you say to fly, we die instantly because of our slow moving and that mages can do normal damage if we are also flying. Also, if you say we can just leap to them, consider again that we can't spam our leap skill and only have one. Plus, if you would humor to consider it, clerics have a passive skill to be able to fly faster than normal. So they can use their secondary attack to slow us while flying away, and even if we leap, we are still out of range to attack.

I would love for flying to stay in, but not at the expense of the balance of classes being disrupted. Not to mention attacking team now does have an advantage, when it is supposed to be the advantage on the defending side when in a 1:1 ratio of level/classes/etc.

Again... what is with this assumption that BMs are the only ones who can go on the offensive... It's that logic that is why such a change is needed. I'm not out to teach you how to run your TWs, or share any specific strategies which might answer your question... Afterall, I have to think about keeping the advantage of knowing what we are doing within my own guild. If you can't figure things out, that's really your problem.

That said, everyone else isn't flying... Flying is a very poor way to travel in TW since it tends to be much slower than running for almost everyone. Clerics on the ground is far from being a "stupid move" if the guild is good enough. Wizards would still be on the ground because they would want their spells to do the most damage possible to either the tanks or anyone around the tanks, same for archers, same for barbs, same even for venos. On the ground, in a group, you can usually avoid being targeted by half the team... especially if a robe user. Being in the air is just generally a bad thing to do on the front lines since it makes it easier for people to see and target you as well as makes you move slower, and have less ability to determine where the front really is. A cleric who is busy healing in the air probably won't notice their group being pushed back, and ending up stuck above the enemy group. Visibility in the air, to other people in the air is also fairly bad, so moving around to the side of the cleric, or even just within spell or arrow range usually isn't a difficult task. In the air, you are exposed, and a potential target from anywhere. What few people there are in the air are likely focusing their effort on other people in the air.

Generally rezzing in a TW is really just a wasted effort, and leaves the cleric open to attack unless all other opponents have been removed from the area. When you rez, your charms will be triggered, and you will be unable to do anything other than run for a few seconds. Against a capable opponent, any tank would likely be dead again before they could do anything. As they would have a nice, obvious, glowy symbol on the ground which screams "kill me", they will be targeted and killed again. And in dying, the tank has lost control of the catapult, and it is probably either decaying or is dead by the time the tank can do anything. It is a wasted effort since in the time that it takes to rezz, a good cleric could probably help keep the rest of the group alive. If the tank is killed, usually the rest of the group will follow soon enough. Again, what matters in TW is the catapults, turrets, and the HQ stone, everything else only serves to aid with these things. TW is not PvP, standard PvP or PvE roles do not always apply when facing a large human force that can adapt to the situation..

The only imbalance which exists is in 1 vs 1 encounters in TW, and really, that is not what TW is about. If some cleric is in the air healing their teammates, it's up to other classes, who can fight in the air, to take them out. With proper support BMs won't even have to think about those few people who are flying because those people will be busy with other flying classes who aren's as limited in the air... You talk about balance, but really all you want is for BMs to have almost every advantage in TW*. You were happy with the old system since it worked so well with your class, now that the system is changed, you feel the need to raise some argument against changes which put you on more even ground with other classes.

*BMs have high damage, second highest health, high physical resistances, stuns, AoE attacks, speed boosts on the ground, the ability to jump over walls (before flying), self heal, self buffs, and can be effective in both offensive and defensive roles. This all at a cost of ability in air (Barbs are still much worse) and low magic defense (offset by high HP, and charms). Before flying was enabled, about all you had to be cautious of was a wizard getting off a spell before you can get close. If you could manage to flank a group of robe users, you could have probably charged in, and taken out most of them before they knew what hit them. No other class has had this advantage, and even still, no other class has as many advantages in PvP or GvG.

Your fears about being "useless in TW" are totally unfounded, and only show that you do not really know very much about both working with others, or using what tools are available. And that, is up to you to learn. Experienced BMs, people who have actually fought a TW in the current system with a BM, can probably tell you that most of these "what if" situations could be resolved rather quickly with a little teamwork. You have a good portion of your guild with you... why on earth are you fighting alone, and how can you just sit there and expect that one class should be able to take out everything themselves? That sentiment is just arrogance, and has little to do with balance.

Beastfool - Lost City

vagrant0 wrote: »

Again... what is with this assumption that BMs are the only ones who can go on the offensive... It's that logic that is why such a change is needed. I'm not out to teach you how to run your TWs, or share any specific strategies which might answer your question... Afterall, I have to think about keeping the advantage of knowing what we are doing within my own guild. If you can't figure things out, that's really your problem.

That said, everyone else isn't flying... Flying is a very poor way to travel in TW since it tends to be much slower than running for almost everyone. Clerics on the ground is far from being a "stupid move" if the guild is good enough. Wizards would still be on the ground because they would want their spells to do the most damage possible to either the tanks or anyone around the tanks, same for archers, same for barbs, same even for venos. On the ground, in a group, you can usually avoid being targeted by half the team... especially if a robe user. Being in the air is just generally a bad thing to do on the front lines since it makes it easier for people to see and target you as well as makes you move slower, and have less ability to determine where the front really is. A cleric who is busy healing in the air probably won't notice their group being pushed back, and ending up stuck above the enemy group. Visibility in the air, to other people in the air is also fairly bad, so moving around to the side of the cleric, or even just within spell or arrow range usually isn't a difficult task. In the air, you are exposed, and a potential target from anywhere. What few people there are in the air are likely focusing their effort on other people in the air.

Generally rezzing in a TW is really just a wasted effort, and leaves the cleric open to attack unless all other opponents have been removed from the area. When you rez, your charms will be triggered, and you will be unable to do anything other than run for a few seconds. Against a capable opponent, any tank would likely be dead again before they could do anything. As they would have a nice, obvious, glowy symbol on the ground which screams "kill me", they will be targeted and killed again. And in dying, the tank has lost control of the catapult, and it is probably either decaying or is dead by the time the tank can do anything. It is a wasted effort since in the time that it takes to rezz, a good cleric could probably help keep the rest of the group alive. If the tank is killed, usually the rest of the group will follow soon enough. Again, what matters in TW is the catapults, turrets, and the HQ stone, everything else only serves to aid with these things. TW is not PvP, standard PvP or PvE roles do not always apply when facing a large human force that can adapt to the situation..

The only imbalance which exists is in 1 vs 1 encounters in TW, and really, that is not what TW is about. If some cleric is in the air healing their teammates, it's up to other classes, who can fight in the air, to take them out. With proper support BMs won't even have to think about those few people who are flying because those people will be busy with other flying classes who aren's as limited in the air... You talk about balance, but really all you want is for BMs to have almost every advantage in TW*. You were happy with the old system since it worked so well with your class, now that the system is changed, you feel the need to raise some argument against changes which put you on more even ground with other classes.

*BMs have high damage, second highest health, high physical resistances, stuns, AoE attacks, speed boosts on the ground, the ability to jump over walls (before flying), self heal, self buffs, and can be effective in both offensive and defensive roles. This all at a cost of ability in air (Barbs are still much worse) and low magic defense (offset by high HP, and charms). Before flying was enabled, about all you had to be cautious of was a wizard getting off a spell before you can get close. If you could manage to flank a group of robe users, you could have probably charged in, and taken out most of them before they knew what hit them. No other class has had this advantage, and even still, no other class has as many advantages in PvP or GvG.

Your fears about being "useless in TW" are totally unfounded, and only show that you do not really know very much about both working with others, or using what tools are available. And that, is up to you to learn. Experienced BMs, people who have actually fought a TW in the current system with a BM, can probably tell you that most of these "what if" situations could be resolved rather quickly with a little teamwork. You have a good portion of your guild with you... why on earth are you fighting alone, and how can you just sit there and expect that one class should be able to take out everything themselves? That sentiment is just arrogance, and has little to do with balance.

Lol, thought this would be somewhat a thoughtful reply judging by its length, but you have no idea how TW works w/ flying. Check out some China TW video imo b:bye

Tara - Lost City

Why bother attending when you know that its now broken and you cannot win... Its a shame another part of PWI trashed cause some suit decided it would be a good idea sure your adding new stuff but its not added yet so why not wait on this part... sheesh do the people in charge even have anything upstairs ?