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[Important] Incorrect scoring of Tideswell TW

kalkariakalkaria Posts: 17 Arc User
edited August 2018 in General Discussion
3ac51144186385afd71c4d5d28c19220.png

I'll keep this brief. There's the map and the rankings. Dynasty is the purple faction in the west. They have 7 lands, with 1 of those lands being a city. CRUSH is the gray faction in the south. They also have 7 lands, 2 of which are cities. Since ties are broken by city count, by rule, CRUSH should be ranked second place. It's unfair to them to cheat them of their rewards, so please fix this before you send out codes, PWI.
Post edited by kalkaria on
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Comments

  • perfectdaknessperfectdakness Posts: 6 Arc User
    kalkaria wrote: »
    3ac51144186385afd71c4d5d28c19220.png

    I'll keep this brief. There's the map and the rankings. Dynasty is the purple faction in the west. They have 7 lands, with 1 of those lands being a city. CRUSH is the gray faction in the south. They also have 7 lands, 2 of which are cities. Since ties are broken by city count, by rule, CRUSH should be ranked second place. It's unfair to them to cheat them of their rewards, so please fix this before you send out codes, PWI.

    DAMN RIGHT FIX IT PWI OR BURN
  • foxymoofoxymoo Posts: 2 Arc User
    Please fix this asap. We worked hard to get this far.
  • hurrdurrurrhurrdurrurr Posts: 54 Arc User
    Obviously this is a mistake but would you mind showing where it says ties are breaken with city count? I think we all agree its how it should be and back in seasons where lands were just worth of points, different for each tier, cities were worth more. Then again I suspect PWI has stopped giving a **** of maintaining shread of competence in their public image. While I hope this gets fixed, I wouldnt get my hopes up.
  • kalkariakalkaria Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    Obviously this is a mistake but would you mind showing where it says ties are breaken with city count? I think we all agree its how it should be and back in seasons where lands were just worth of points, different for each tier, cities were worth more. Then again I suspect PWI has stopped giving a **** of maintaining shread of competence in their public image. While I hope this gets fixed, I wouldnt get my hopes up.

    From last season:
    4dbe3ae8e94cc2ba5dc30a8b156272b0.png

    There was no announcement of a change in scoring methodology.
  • kalkariakalkaria Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    Obviously this is a mistake but would you mind showing where it says ties are breaken with city count? I think we all agree its how it should be and back in seasons where lands were just worth of points, different for each tier, cities were worth more. Then again I suspect PWI has stopped giving a **** of maintaining shread of competence in their public image. While I hope this gets fixed, I wouldnt get my hopes up.

    I must've accidentally deleted my post when trying to edit it. Last season, the scoring system I'm describing was evidently used as a tiebreaker.
    a0944df7eaaa8d09a231100cea78e1a2.png
    There was no announcement of a change in scoring methodology between the seasons.
  • swimtooswimtoo Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    I agree, Dynasty should be third. Whatever PWI did, they did it wrong. Since last season the scoring went to number of cities there is no reason that Dynasty should be second with only one city. Come on pwi, can you get anything right anymore? Obviously not. Just fix it before rewards go out.

    Post edited by swimtoo on
  • banknonamebanknoname Posts: 20 Arc User
    Gonna tag @heero200 so he can pass this to the right people.
  • heero200heero200 🇭elper 🇪xtraordinary 🐲💯 Posts: 4,175 Community Moderator
    banknoname wrote: »
    Gonna tag @heero200 so he can pass this to the right people.

    The problem is I dont have any contact details at the moment. I can try the below but I think it will have a low response. The only other suggestion I can make to raise the issues is via support ticket.

    @sunnys1dework I think this comes down to your calling card.

    Thanks.​​
  • banknonamebanknoname Posts: 20 Arc User
    Now they also changed the rewards for 1st place in svs after the season ended. Vindicate is only getting 5 permanent helms and a bunch of 1 month timed helmets that won't be sent out until early in the new year.
  • dasb#8274 dasb Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    Yep, if cities are the reason to break a tie, Crush, should be victorious, but:
    foxymoo wrote: »
    Please fix this asap. We worked hard to get this far.

    Don't exaggerate, you hid behind Tempest the whole season, even told them to take your land so you could be protected from Dynasty, so, saying you worked hard isn't really right, is it?

    Crush should be in 2nd, but let's not pretend it was by Crush's own merit.

    EDIT: Pretty crappy decision to alter the 1st place rewards for DC AFTER the season is over, not at the start, not at the middle, they only thought about this now at the end...
    However you put it, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, it doesn't matter, this whole season (DC and TW) is a fiasco by PWE.
  • lightpheonixxlightpheonixx Posts: 18 Arc User
    The mistake is really bad, I would be mad too if it happened to me. But honestly DON'T expect pwi to fix it as they are lazy and don't want to deal with a lot of work. Messing up the DC reward, TW Rewards so pretty much PWE is a downhill crappy company now who doesn't care about anything but their own money.
  • wettstylewettstyle Posts: 236 Arc User
    Dreamweaver is a port, not a city haha.... kidding of course
  • betuoubetuou Posts: 7 Arc User
    I wonder how many actual CRUSH members are here to complain and how many Tempest. Crush lost to Dynasty in every fight they had last season and it wasnt even close. So no , dont exagerate by saying you worked hard for anything because you didnt you just hid behind Tempest the whole time and got everything handed to you.

    A word of advice to CRUSH stop hiding behind the big dictator on Tideswell makes you look frail and weak.Nothing more then a alt faction manipulated by Tempest.Become a stand alone faction then say things like ''we worked hard'' or ''We deserve the second place'' because as things are right now you only got so far because Tempest really didnt want Dynasty to get second place because they a bunch of try hards who get scared at the first sign of competition and want to keep every pvp competition in their pocket so basically : short ,no fun ,10 minute battles so they do everything they can to keep it that way by robbing the fun out of this game. Im curious how many Tempest members that spent all that coin gearing up to end lvl are happy with those boring and short fights.Is that why you spent all that effort gearing or make time for TW for those 10 minutes once a week?

    So its not a question about CRUSH not getting what they ''deserve'' they unhappy with the fact that the tempest plan didnt work.They dont care about CRUSH they just didnt want that second place for Dynasty. Well boo hoo thats what you get for trying to monopolize a whole server and force everyone to join you big bully.

    Personally i dont care if they hand the second place to CRUSH everyone on Tideswell knows their not the 2nd strongest faction there ,far from it actually, and that they didnt work hard for anything. The only somewhat fun TWs on Tideswell are those between smaller factions because everything else seems to be Win by all means necessary with no competition no fun and that mindset spread to xTW as well hence the dragon rushes.
  • aspiringapathyaspiringapathy Posts: 66 Arc User
    betuou wrote: »
    I wonder how many actual CRUSH members are here to complain and how many Tempest. Crush lost to Dynasty in every fight they had last season and it wasnt even close. So no , dont exagerate by saying you worked hard for anything because you didnt you just hid behind Tempest the whole time and got everything handed to you.

    A word of advice to CRUSH stop hiding behind the big dictator on Tideswell makes you look frail and weak.Nothing more then a alt faction manipulated by Tempest.Become a stand alone faction then say things like ''we worked hard'' or ''We deserve the second place'' because as things are right now you only got so far because Tempest really didnt want Dynasty to get second place because they a bunch of try hards who get scared at the first sign of competition and want to keep every pvp competition in their pocket so basically : short ,no fun ,10 minute battles so they do everything they can to keep it that way by robbing the fun out of this game. Im curious how many Tempest members that spent all that coin gearing up to end lvl are happy with those boring and short fights.Is that why you spent all that effort gearing or make time for TW for those 10 minutes once a week?

    So its not a question about CRUSH not getting what they ''deserve'' they unhappy with the fact that the tempest plan didnt work.They dont care about CRUSH they just didnt want that second place for Dynasty. Well boo hoo thats what you get for trying to monopolize a whole server and force everyone to join you big bully.

    Personally i dont care if they hand the second place to CRUSH everyone on Tideswell knows their not the 2nd strongest faction there ,far from it actually, and that they didnt work hard for anything. The only somewhat fun TWs on Tideswell are those between smaller factions because everything else seems to be Win by all means necessary with no competition no fun and that mindset spread to xTW as well hence the dragon rushes.

    200 CoM's and the push for 1st because of it is the reason the 'no fun' mentality of SvS happened. Frankly I'm surprised anytime someone says Tempest tries to monopolize or control pk on the Tideswell server. I don't see it but perhaps you could enlighten me and provide a specific example. I don't want everyone to join us o.o sheesh I'd love to see some of the other factions gearing up and recruiting heavily...just because we're consistently winning server events such as TFN / TW due to numbers / gear average - that doesn't mean we're actively trying to monopolize the server.
  • foxymoofoxymoo Posts: 2 Arc User
    CRUSH may not be the 2nd strongest but it seems you're angry that we managed to actually get 2nd anyway. We deserve 2nd because we actually managed to get 2nd. If you think we're just full of tempest alts, then you haven't been in CRUSH or even know the members that well.

    If you honestly don't think we didn't work hard then you haven't watched any of our tw videos. You don't realize how we don't have the numbers dyna or tempest do so we actually have to work for a TW. We actually have to make squads, plan attacks, plan where to go, take care of our own members, sign up, show up, and cover for eachother. CRUSH is a family, we take care of eachother, no matter what. Hell, we even have family in dyna...

    Tempest leader makes the calls on TW lands, Tempest leader doesn't have an alt in CRUSH. We never broke any rules. TW isn't just about who's stronger, it also comes down to intelligence. You don't win a war with just brawn.

    All this being said, it's still wrong that CRUSH has 3rd with more cities than Dyna. Simple.
  • aradrielaradriel Moony Mender Posts: 73 Arc User
    betuou wrote: »
    Personally i dont care if they hand the second place to CRUSH everyone on Tideswell knows their not the 2nd strongest faction there ,far from it actually, and that they didnt work hard for anything. The only somewhat fun TWs on Tideswell are those between smaller factions because everything else seems to be Win by all means necessary with no competition no fun and that mindset spread to xTW as well hence the dragon rushes.

    No one is debating CRUSH's strength versus Dynasty. It's clear that Dynasty has more raw strength than we do. However, that does NOT mean that we didn't work hard during the TW season. There was no great conspiracy or "tempest plan" as you say - Tempest's decisions about where they went on the TW map were their own. Our leadership worked very hard in a ridiculously long 6+ month season to plan our bids, hound people to sign up/show up for fights, and organize squads week in and out to make this happen. We didn't get anything handed to us, and we didn't hide behind anyone. Ultimately, the standings should at the very least be a tie for 2nd, with Dyna and CRUSH both coming in at 7 lands. All we want is the rewards we DID work for.
    Raging Tides/Tideswell
    Arandelle | Cleric
    Aradriela | Wizard
    Not-so-perfect world'er since Jan. 2010.
  • godoftanksgodoftanks Posts: 4 Arc User
    aradriel wrote: »
    betuou wrote: »
    Personally i dont care if they hand the second place to CRUSH everyone on Tideswell knows their not the 2nd strongest faction there ,far from it actually, and that they didnt work hard for anything. The only somewhat fun TWs on Tideswell are those between smaller factions because everything else seems to be Win by all means necessary with no competition no fun and that mindset spread to xTW as well hence the dragon rushes.

    No one is debating CRUSH's strength versus Dynasty. It's clear that Dynasty has more raw strength than we do. However, that does NOT mean that we didn't work hard during the TW season. There was no great conspiracy or "tempest plan" as you say - Tempest's decisions about where they went on the TW map were their own. Our leadership worked very hard in a ridiculously long 6+ month season to plan our bids, hound people to sign up/show up for fights, and organize squads week in and out to make this happen. We didn't get anything handed to us, and we didn't hide behind anyone. Ultimately, the standings should at the very least be a tie for 2nd, with Dyna and CRUSH both coming in at 7 lands. All we want is the rewards we DID work for.

    its obviously easy win with tempest cover. did u even see how the map it was? 1st Crush always has an ez with with alt faction with their own faction LOOOOL. 2nd daddy Tempest protects and never attacks on Crush map. 3rd daddy Tempest did attack the Southwest to protect your lands.. whats your working hard u talking about son? u literally shows up when a faction is really weak.. wheres the fun? :| i mean wheres the love? :D
  • antonio0590antonio0590 Posts: 71 Arc User
    foxymoo wrote: »
    Please fix this asap. We worked hard to get this far.

    Haha.. good joke bro. Having Tempest alts and protection from them was really hard to do.
  • gravewulfgravewulf Posts: 36 Arc User
















    I don't want everyone to join us o.o sheesh I'd love to see some of the other factions gearing up and recruiting heavily...

    GTFO with that bs. If you meant that, you wouldn't be in temPEST. You're of the same high school mentality just like the rest of them. Take your little arrogant attitude somewhere else, and stop with the psuedo 'care', about the state of the server. All you guys are like a bunch of scared kittens, huddled together, and to soft mentally to take a loss once and awhile. So go on winning, never knowing what it's really like to win, because of a ridiculous advantage temPEST posseses. Crush earned whatever they get, far more then any temPEST member ever will. They are the one's that hide behind each other, not Crush hiding behind them.



  • only0newishonly0newish Posts: 9 Arc User
    Now, now! Tempest worked hard for the alts they had in CRUSH to get 2nd place rewards~

    Seriously though, how exactly are winners decided if there is a tie? Do they flip a coin or something? Seems very odd mistake and very bad that such an important contest ranking was not double checked before posting by anyone. Reminds me of one of the previous seasons TW posts where the map of another server was not showing their map, it was showing Tideswell map... so typical of PWI :neutral:
  • heero200heero200 🇭elper 🇪xtraordinary 🐲💯 Posts: 4,175 Community Moderator
    Now, now! Tempest worked hard for the alts they had in CRUSH to get 2nd place rewards~

    Seriously though, how exactly are winners decided if there is a tie? Do they flip a coin or something? Seems very odd mistake and very bad that such an important contest ranking was not double checked before posting by anyone. Reminds me of one of the previous seasons TW posts where the map of another server was not showing their map, it was showing Tideswell map... so typical of PWI :neutral:

    They are set as the same place as per one of the other servers.

    With the way they have handled the other server with 3rd place then it shows this as a mistake.

    Tho they are not doing to well at the moment.

    Thanks.​​
  • pixiepoofpixiepoof Posts: 3 Arc User
    heero200 wrote: »

    Tho they are not doing to well at the moment.

    Thanks.​​

    What makes you say that? XD
  • betuoubetuou Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited August 2018
    aradriel wrote: »
    betuou wrote: »
    Personally i dont care if they hand the second place to CRUSH everyone on Tideswell knows their not the 2nd strongest faction there ,far from it actually, and that they didnt work hard for anything. The only somewhat fun TWs on Tideswell are those between smaller factions because everything else seems to be Win by all means necessary with no competition no fun and that mindset spread to xTW as well hence the dragon rushes.

    No one is debating CRUSH's strength versus Dynasty. It's clear that Dynasty has more raw strength than we do. However, that does NOT mean that we didn't work hard during the TW season. There was no great conspiracy or "tempest plan" as you say - Tempest's decisions about where they went on the TW map were their own. Our leadership worked very hard in a ridiculously long 6+ month season to plan our bids, hound people to sign up/show up for fights, and organize squads week in and out to make this happen. We didn't get anything handed to us, and we didn't hide behind anyone. Ultimately, the standings should at the very least be a tie for 2nd, with Dyna and CRUSH both coming in at 7 lands. All we want is the rewards we DID work for.

    Yes there was a tempest plan and the plan was to keep dynasty from getting second place.Meaning handing the second place to CRUSH.They would have won the tw season either way hands down but they had to interfere with the rest of the rankings as well.And dont tell me you didnt get protection they deliberately took one of your lands to prevent Dynasty from reaching you.And you agreed.And kept atacking Dynasty so you would hold more lands. Thats not protecting?Or hiding behind them?

    Dynasty showed all the tempest fights with full power even tough they lost all of them thats true. Can you say the same about your fights with Dynasty?You lost all of them with under 10 people showing to each fight sometimes there were 1 , 2 or 3 people there. Wheres that hard work you keep talking about? The only fights you showed and actually did something were the ones against Vicious and fyi they would have beat you if they wasnt still unexperienced in tw.How could you rally people for those fights and not against dynasty?Not only that but instead of keeping a low profile if you get that much help from daddy tempest you went and bragged about it on WC and kept talking like you earned everything just like your doing here.Ever heard about modesty?Keep your trolls in check you have plenty of those in there.

    Im not here to question any rankings if the second place according to the rules belongs to you then so be it. But dont come here spreading lies about how you got there.And tempest stop pretending you actually care about CRUSH.Why are tempest members here complaining about the CRUSH ranking anyway.They upset because the bullying plan didnt work.Someone was asking about an example on how they try to monopolize the server. Theres your example they focus on keeping the 2nd strongest faction down so they dont get stronger to not get any competition in TW.They want to decide who gets 2nd place. At least thats what their leadership is doing im pretty sure not all in there agree with that tactic.Why?Because they want everyone relevant to join tempest so they can win xTW...with those lame dragon rushes.Hope its worth it...out of those 200 helmets which you didnt even get 195 will expire in a month.So yeah the no fun rush everything because ''we gonna get you all COM'' mentality went down the drain.
  • only0newishonly0newish Posts: 9 Arc User
    betuou wrote: »
    aradriel wrote: »
    betuou wrote: »
    Personally i dont care if they hand the second place to CRUSH everyone on Tideswell knows their not the 2nd strongest faction there ,far from it actually, and that they didnt work hard for anything. The only somewhat fun TWs on Tideswell are those between smaller factions because everything else seems to be Win by all means necessary with no competition no fun and that mindset spread to xTW as well hence the dragon rushes.

    No one is debating CRUSH's strength versus Dynasty. It's clear that Dynasty has more raw strength than we do. However, that does NOT mean that we didn't work hard during the TW season. There was no great conspiracy or "tempest plan" as you say - Tempest's decisions about where they went on the TW map were their own. Our leadership worked very hard in a ridiculously long 6+ month season to plan our bids, hound people to sign up/show up for fights, and organize squads week in and out to make this happen. We didn't get anything handed to us, and we didn't hide behind anyone. Ultimately, the standings should at the very least be a tie for 2nd, with Dyna and CRUSH both coming in at 7 lands. All we want is the rewards we DID work for.

    Yes there was a tempest plan and the plan was to keep dynasty from getting second place.Meaning handing the second place to CRUSH.They would have won the tw season either way hands down but they had to interfere with the rest of the rankings as well.And dont tell me you didnt get protection they deliberately took one of your lands to prevent Dynasty from reaching you.And you agreed.And kept atacking Dynasty so you would hold more lands. Thats not protecting?Or hiding behind them?

    Dynasty showed all the tempest fights with full power even tough they lost all of them thats true. Can you say the same about your fights with Dynasty?You lost all of them with under 10 people showing to each fight sometimes there were 1 , 2 or 3 people there. Wheres that hard work you keep talking about? The only fights you showed and actually did something were the ones against Vicious and fyi they would have beat you if they wasnt still unexperienced in tw.How could you rally people for those fights and not against dynasty?Not only that but instead of keeping a low profile if you get that much help from daddy tempest you went and bragged about it on WC and kept talking like you earned everything just like your doing here.Ever heard about modesty?Keep your trolls in check you have plenty of those in there.

    Im not here to question any rankings if the second place according to the rules belongs to you then so be it. But dont come here spreading lies about how you got there.And tempest stop pretending you actually care about CRUSH.Why are tempest members here complaining about the CRUSH ranking anyway.They upset because the bullying plan didnt work.Someone was asking about an example on how they try to monopolize the server. Theres your example they focus on keeping the 2nd strongest faction down so they dont get stronger to not get any competition in TW.They want to decide who gets 2nd place. At least thats what their leadership is doing im pretty sure not all in there agree with that tactic.Why?Because they want everyone to join tempest so they can win xTW...with those lame dragon rushes.Hope its worth it...out of those 200 helmets which you didnt even get 195 will expire in a month.So yeah the no fun rush everything because ''we gonna get you all COM'' mentality went down the drain.

    Yes, it was part of the plan to deny Dynasty 2nd place. I can confirm this.

    I dont care about either of the factions, each had their own way of trying to manupulate the other factions in order to get the outcome they desire, always has been like this. A lot of manipulations in the dark and scheming. So sometimes, not the strongest or worthy factions win the ranking in the end. It's politics and such, all you'ld expect during a war.
  • shimarrashimarra Posts: 181 Arc User
    betuou wrote: »
    I wonder how many actual CRUSH members are here to complain and how many Tempest. Crush lost to Dynasty in every fight they had last season and it wasnt even close. So no , dont exagerate by saying you worked hard for anything because you didnt you just hid behind Tempest the whole time and got everything handed to you.

    A word of advice to CRUSH stop hiding behind the big dictator on Tideswell makes you look frail and weak.Nothing more then a alt faction manipulated by Tempest.Become a stand alone faction then say things like ''we worked hard'' or ''We deserve the second place'' because as things are right now you only got so far because Tempest really didnt want Dynasty to get second place because they a bunch of try hards who get scared at the first sign of competition and want to keep every pvp competition in their pocket so basically : short ,no fun ,10 minute battles so they do everything they can to keep it that way by robbing the fun out of this game. Im curious how many Tempest members that spent all that coin gearing up to end lvl are happy with those boring and short fights.Is that why you spent all that effort gearing or make time for TW for those 10 minutes once a week?

    So its not a question about CRUSH not getting what they ''deserve'' they unhappy with the fact that the tempest plan didnt work.They dont care about CRUSH they just didnt want that second place for Dynasty. Well boo hoo thats what you get for trying to monopolize a whole server and force everyone to join you big bully.

    Personally i dont care if they hand the second place to CRUSH everyone on Tideswell knows their not the 2nd strongest faction there ,far from it actually, and that they didnt work hard for anything. The only somewhat fun TWs on Tideswell are those between smaller factions because everything else seems to be Win by all means necessary with no competition no fun and that mindset spread to xTW as well hence the dragon rushes.

    Dynasty barely even shows up to Tempest TW so maybe you Dynasty should work harder. Stop stepping on small factions.
  • plzhlpingameplzhlpingame Posts: 10 Arc User
    is Dynasty salty because they couldnt abuse another glitch of pwi? gms make a mistake and you try to cover it up. dynasty are all here being salty but have alts in CRUSH so why are u upset? ur alts get a good reward. want to talk about op btw? didnt Dynasty get beat by Oldies 2 seasons ago? CRUSH has NEVER wined ANY tws. but seems like Dyna has hit the bottle a few times. stop being jelous that you got outplayed AGAIN. just be happy you got a spot on the podium this season
  • baambaammmbaambaammm Posts: 18 Arc User
    is Dynasty salty because they couldnt abuse another glitch of pwi? gms make a mistake and you try to cover it up. dynasty are all here being salty but have alts in CRUSH so why are u upset? ur alts get a good reward. want to talk about op btw? didnt Dynasty get beat by Oldies 2 seasons ago? CRUSH has NEVER wined ANY tws. but seems like Dyna has hit the bottle a few times. stop being jelous that you got outplayed AGAIN. just be happy you got a spot on the podium this season

    did u ever wonder why Dynasty let them lands to Oldies? bcuz they gave it to them and fight for the strongest faction on server (Tempest). meanwhile theres a 3 or 4 gank in Dynasty at the same time. they still manage to defend 2lands in 4fights even they lost to Tempest. that is what u called "Hardwork" while CRUSH and Booty only manage to win an EZ fight with ganks and ez faction. stop dissing yourself :D
  • plzhlpingameplzhlpingame Posts: 10 Arc User


    did u ever wonder why Dynasty let them lands to Oldies? bcuz they gave it to them and fight for the strongest faction on server (Tempest). meanwhile theres a 3 or 4 gank in Dynasty at the same time. they still manage to defend 2lands in 4fights even they lost to Tempest. that is what u called "Hardwork" while CRUSH and Booty only manage to win an EZ fight with ganks and ez faction. stop dissing yourself :D [/quote]

    is this dyna admitting to fixing tw bids?
  • baambaammmbaambaammm Posts: 18 Arc User
    is this dyna admitting to fixing tw bids?

    im not. im just pinpointing on your quote that this or that faction is being outplayed is a great sarcsm. put some respect on the faction whos fighting the strongest. can u pls tell me is there another faction fighting with tempest in this last season? like CRUSH or Oldies u talking about? :/ ????
  • plzhlpingameplzhlpingame Posts: 10 Arc User
    you got wiped by a PvE faction . you NEVER bid on Tempest. but you claim you went after them? they bid on your land and took it with ease, as i stated previously. enjoy your 3rd place podium, its better than last season and the one before
This discussion has been closed.