Questions for old players

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2008 player here, and I will point out before anything else that the lowgame and midgame have been basically destroyed over the years. You get handed free gear until you don't, then you start begging for it (QSM). You get handed a crappy mount and flyer and a bunch of pots, presumably so you "don't have to" spend on anything. Then you get quests, almost none of which give a coin value above five digits anymore (and most not even that). Virtually all dropped items are worthless. Jones money is fine, if you're willing to stay in the 70s for weeks if not months (and that's assuming you even know about Jones as a newbie). Nobody squads for TT anymore except for BH runs, so if you don't care to join a faction and beg for help, you're SOL unless you rely on QSM gear until 95 Morai. Finally here you are at endgame, maybe with TT99 if you got the pill code, no mirages to speak of for refining, no coin to speak of for making shards or any sort of gear upgrades. BH rewards just got nerfed hard so good luck getting anything done there.

Functionally speaking, it has turned into a paywall, and that's not sustainable long-term. PWI grew and has lasted as long as it has primarily because it doesn't succumb to the same quasi-micropayment "you must spend X amount of money to realistically continue" bull that other F2P games have (in fact - and many newbies might not know this - before PWI was released, the original PW was designed first as a pay to play game). To see it squander this legacy is frankly painful to watch.

There need to be reliable, consistent and renewable ways for people to make money. Jones is actually a good model, and if it were applied to endgame characters, it would really solve a lot of problems. Maybe we can't restore DQ values or coin rewards to quests Because China™, but PWE has got to have some tools they can use. Hell, send out an ecstasy card ticket or two in the mail every week to any active account with less than 10mil across all characters. It wouldn't be a perfect solution, but it would help until China got its act together and made our version more sustainable. (Side note: Would this be abused by people with 100 accounts? Yes. Counterpoint: Are those same people currently abusing Jones? Hell yes.)

@wildz2 - You cannot expect most newbies to merchant. Maybe it was different for you, but "welcome to endgame! now study these markets and make a new catshop account which will sit for weeks making meager profits before you have the money to continue" doesn't sound like my idea of a good time.

Pretty much what everyone else said, there's an insane amount of catch up if you aren't paying money.

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kyoske wrote: »

@wildz2 you really didnt think before writing that post did you. Now this thread was about new players so let me ask you this, one if i were a new player given level 100 automatically and tt99 gear and that's assuming the person started during this phase. I would equip my gear yes, ask around where to put stat points. I would locate my quest window and be mindblown what the hell should i do first. someone said do cultis, so i did im now out of celestial vale, every low level culti is a walk over because im lvl 100 now with lvl 99 gear, now i do all of this, ive already unlocked morai, which some classes wont survive in tt99 gear worst primal. so as a newbie unless i have someone to help im done there.
Here is the truth you are speaking from a merchants view, which would only benefit older players again who need to upgrade their alts gears. You are also speaking as if u assume those new players are going to have a lot of money to buy your stuff, they dont.

If you cant handle morai in tt99, go play outside, you cant handle a computer.
People I've helped are all handling themselves around Neverfall in their TT99.
(Probly wont on last questchain)

I'm not speaking as an old player, since I am a new player.

Merching low cost items costs low and still profits...you dont need to have millions to invest, just to be smart.

But as a guy who really didnt think before writting, i'm surprised i do 1000x better than people so smart and complaining.


(Then again, as someone pointed out, we cant expect everyone to merch around, I guess for some it most be boring, for me it just seems easier doing what i want and letting the catshop do the job for me)

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wildz2 wrote: »

If you cant handle morai in tt99, go play outside, you cant handle a computer.
People I've helped are all handling themselves around Neverfall in their TT99.
(Probly wont on last questchain)

No offence but considering that normal mobs on neverfall can hit a g16 vana with cards and even some average decent amount of spirit + primal pasives and refines for about 1000 to 2000 damage per hit, it is hard to believe for me that people can survive on tt99, unless said gear is highly refined or the person is just old player with almost all their pasives and other stuff leveled, wearing that just to test. But in that case would not even be a pill toon to begin with.

Or maybe you are talking about the very first mobs that you find before going to Neverfall city, in that case I guess it is posible.

Also im pretty sure tt99 cant survive Natya on quest chain, She one shots g16s fully buffed people. From about 15 people wearing g16 that I helped on that boss, all of them got 1 or 2 shoted a lot of times, the ones that got less deaths were a seeker and barb, both really well refined and not alts, but they still droped one or two times.

On the other hand, on morai part I have to agree. Morai is totally posible with tt80/90, fc 85 or qsm 85 gear, the person would just need help for bosses which is normal.

blazerboy wrote: »

The moment someone explained how much it takes to catch up id be gone tbh

I recently (a week) came back to pwi because i got bored with another game. That being said, i enjoyed continuing from where i left off 2 years ago.

Everything became more 'complicated' for old players that just got back, and in our oldies guild we're trying to figure things out as we go (not that hard). But the sheer cost of it all, not just R9 but homestead and all the new things is mindboggling. I left this game because without paying RL cash i couldn't keep up with the cost of progressing, but now it's getting totally crazy.

I made a pillbaby again with the available codes, and truth be told, it sucks. Not only don't you have any coins, you have so many different things to do (like getting rep for homestead, 35K seriously ? you never get that questing 1-100) that require CASH. Something newbies don't have unless they pay for it.

I just play the game now till my next game on my wishlist comes out. Then i'm off again and then they can shove this game where the sun don't shine. Player numbers are declining constantly because PWI is way to greedy and way to stingy on coin. You need to kill 10+ mobs to pay for 1 (one) teleport fee and DQ items are useless. And don't get me started on coins from quests.

Playing as a newbie ? I'd be gone in a flash, no way in hell i'd go through that ordeal.

And how much time do you think it would be needed to get what is considered today end game gear?

Wayyyyy to long, without investing even 1 cent into the game, just farming ? about 3 years is my guess. Playing at least 6-8 hrs/day.

I remember a friend showed this game to me years ago and we both made new toons to level up together. I started out as a cleric, my friend made a sin. I was so confused and kept dying so much even to mobs around my level because I didn't know how to properly play my class. My friend, too, was new to his class, but unlike me he had experience with the game so it was easy for him to get around. Sometimes he even got annoyed and frustrated I couldn't keep up with him, pointing out how easy it was to survive.

My point is: yes, it's easy to get by if you know how to make the most out of your class. But only if you are experienced. If you are completely new, everything feels hard and confusing. And most old players fail to look at things from the perspective of inexperienced players.

Like everyone else pointed out, giving new players instant lvl 100 and TT99 doesn't help. If anything, it only makes things worse because they rush all the learning steps we, old players, had to go through. Not to mention all the coins you need to progress. It's like giving a random person an anatomy book and some tools and expecting them to perform a flawless surgery on a dying person.​​

Where is the like button. @forbiddenwords you get it and i agree with you

Completely new..without anything? I wouldn't bother with PWI.

IF I would then ofc create at least 3 accs when they give out the Level/free TT99-Pills and roll a Barb, cleric, Assassin and Duskblade (those 4 at least) on 4 different accounts. With that you can solo basic TT instances (1-x/2-x) and earn your first few coins. Then you can build up from there, gear your chars to g15, get ornaments, all that jazz, then go for G16. A G16 DB with Buffs and a cleric healing him can easily walk through TT3-3 and thats what you should farm. Ofc you should focus on one class by then (the class you want to play mainly). If you invest 5-6 hours a day you can achieve basic r9 in approx. 4 months given that you have to gear the twinks as well, get rep, do dailies as well, etc. ...

With 1 account only? GTFO. Nah. The way this game goes atm it is designed to use multiple accounts, except ofc, you have someone to play with you all the time. Then go 2 accs each. 1 acc...nah, just nah. You can't achieve anything in this game without CS and only 1 acc anymore. It's sad, yes, but it's true...so just don't bother and move along to the next game.

And yeah, definitly look for a mentor of sorts that tells you what to do. If they are interested in endgame I suggest looking for a Test-ground (y'all know what I mean) and play around a bit. Then it won't be as confusing.

If they would at least make CSing worthwhile..but their pricing is ridiculous. I could name at least 10 other games in which you can be completely maxed out gear-wise with 1k Dollar. In PWI you would'nt even be average geared after spending 1k...just saying.

kyoske wrote: »

@rieihdius let me just explain the morai thing. If you put a veteran player in tt99 he/she could do wonder, but im using actually examples here. I invited a friend her toon was veno and i advise her to do her culti, she did them right up to the point that she could rb, i helped with bosses, but her gear made her low level cultis easy. Morai she had trouble there and i think it stemmed from the fact that in morai all if not most mobs are aggroed, so he got ganged up on and two she didnt know enough about her class. I keep saying that this thread is about new players and im not talking about you, but our dumb friend who created his account in 2012 but just started to actually play the game feels he knows it all. I also find it weird how you never actually played the game before but you posted on threads about your experience in the game in the year 2012. Say you're a returning player dont lie and say you're new.

Indeed, morai can be a challenge for a new player. When I say that is posible, I was not really talking about someone new or old in particular, what I mean is that the gear: tt99 and lower, even 80 can keep someone alive on that place, of course the lower the gear the more hard it will be and of course the person need to be aware of basic mob/game mechanics.

In my honest opinion I don't see a pill as something good for new players, Things that a new player would need are:
- More fun and rewarding low level content
- maybe some daily event that is fun but not forced to do and catered to lowies and mid levels, not rb people.
- Lots of people of same level range to do all that stuff with

Probably from all that listed, what new players need most are other new players. One of the main reason why this game is what it is now, is due the company completly neglecting their new players. In fact at some point this company even stoped advertising pwi, they removed referal program and even changed name (the publisher) like almost to completly bury the relation between this game and the company, plus many other things they did like the whole FC stuff.

What is even worse than the gap between a new player and a really old one is the lack of other players that can do stuff with those new players.

In my personal opinion a pill will really help an old player with alts. To a new player will not be of much use.
Even I, as an old player, used it on some lvl 70+ alts and still I don't feel really good at playing some of those.
And of course I have a r9 main and years of in game experience that can feed those alts.

So to answer the OP question: I would not start from zero on PWI, I mean i am semi retired now and I actually have a decent geared character and even like that I don't feel like playing too much, I just do neverfall dailies and nw
At that rhythm, I will be a completly non factor pvp wise very soon.
So if for someone like me with actually good gear is not fun to keep up anymore, Imagine a new player.

jsxshadow wrote: »

If they would at least make CSing worthwhile..but their pricing is ridiculous. I could name at least 10 other games in which you can be completely maxed out gear-wise with 1k Dollar. In PWI you would'nt even be average geared after spending 1k...just saying.

Agree. Aactually Im playing another game, and by just questing on that game and doing basic auction merchanting with mob drops, I got in less than a week enough money to get what is considered the 2nd or 3rd best pvp set on the game, even better said gear can evolve into the current meta, that aside said set is completly overkill on pve, funy thing is that I got it, and i can not even wear it due my character being still low level.

Said game of course also have its flaws, like the economy is also kind of destroyed now and healing items are way more expensive than pwi. Like seriously I burn more in game money there on pots than on gear

But just as an example, this would be like in pwi you could buy r9s1 for 20 mill or something
Now I know this sound sort of insane and is something we will never see here but still kind of funny how different is the gear progresion system on that game compared to this one.

Due forum rules I will not say the name of the game, but as a clue: every class can be like a veno there, like you can tame anything and use it as a mount, flyer or battle pet. And you can battle on your mount/flyer.

I think PWIs biggest problem isn't the money aspect many new players who can afford to cs can easily catch up tbh the problem is the rediculous amount of blood required to catch up and then maintaining a account on pwi is just rediculous there is no incentive to try and work hard knowing if you took say a 6 month break you're so behind by the time you catch up there's another endless grind. I'm not saying make everything easier but simple things such as blood can be made easier the last update was a good start though but the barbaric blood amount is still rediculous. Heck you can buy sky level but that's pointless when you need bloods too so you might aswell do the dailies it's free vitae and you get blood too. If PWI sold bloods with the pills maybe you can attract rich spenders but eh for a completely new player F2P you're stacked agianst the wall and Cashers it's so much work to maintain you don't want to bother. Or open up the buy account legally option for us at the rate of our population I think we need it more than china

wildz2 wrote: »

(Then again, as someone pointed out, we cant expect everyone to merch around, I guess for some it most be boring, for me it just seems easier doing what i want and letting the catshop do the job for me)

Yeah, that's about the size of it. See, a game ultimately has to be fun or there's no point. We established players, we have our own methods of fun, depending on the person. But you have to look at it from a total newbie's perspective. Wait on catshop for months or play a different game? No contest there.

rieihdius wrote: »

Also im pretty sure tt99 cant survive Natya on quest chain, She one shots g16s fully buffed people. From about 15 people wearing g16 that I helped on that boss, all of them got 1 or 2 shoted a lot of times, the ones that got less deaths were a seeker and barb, both really well refined and not alts, but they still droped one or two times.

On the other hand, on morai part I have to agree. Morai is totally posible with tt80/90, fc 85 or qsm 85 gear, the person would just need help for bosses which is normal.

For what it's worth, when I did Natya Veda on my archer, he was full g15 lunar nirv +5 and I didn't die. I came pretty damn close, granted, and probably would've without HP charm and primal passives, but yeah - didn't die. Had about 16k HP buffed at the time. When I get around to it on my 32k HP barb (also g15, except for the warsoul wep), I imagine it'll be less of an issue.