Questions for old players

eirghan

> @blazerboy said:
the barbaric blood amount is still rediculous. Heck you can buy sky level but that's pointless when you need bloods too so you might aswell do the dailies it's free vitae and you get blood too. If PWI sold bloods with the pills maybe you can attract rich spenders but eh

Whatever do you mean @blazerboy? You CAN buy bloods. You get 5 barbaric bloods for the low, low price of 800$USD RIGHT NOW.

kyoske

@greenfire312 as i keep pointing out there is a difference between a veteran and a noob even if they in the same game and since we are adding how great we all are. @rieihdius i soloed natya for a fac mate and im a nv3 bm, get on my level, he had to stay out of instance until boss was on last 50k because he kept dying. @eirghan love you.

blazerboy

@eirghan. Yep 5 floods for 800 usd sorry I forgot that's totally fine considering I can do dailies for 5 days and get the same amount free wait if we count neverfall badges even less omg what a steal!!! XD

greenfire312

kyoske wrote: »

@greenfire312 as i keep pointing out there is a difference between a veteran and a noob even if they in the same game and since we are adding how great we all are. @rieihdius i soloed natya for a fac mate and im a nv3 bm, get on my level, he had to stay out of instance until boss was on last 50k because he kept dying. @eirghan love you.

No, I get your point. Maybe a TT99 can do Neverfall, but only if they knew what they were doing, right?

See, I believe in explaining to newbies that they can do stuff like that if they want. Gear elitism has been rampant in this game long before the new grind came out, and newbies desperately need at least one voice that says "yeah, you can function just fine in PVE as long as you're wearing something level-appropriate and you're willing to learn your class." None of this "g16 is bare minimum for PVE, r9 bare minimum for PVP" stuff. In fact, I would argue that focusing so completely on gear has at least as much of a detrimental effect on player learning as the "rely on a soloist for BH" problem you mentioned on the last page.

So, if my comment about doing Natya Veda in g15 came off as bragging, that was not the intended effect - rather, I just enjoy subverting expectations of gear "requirements," and what I hope newbies take from that is that gear in this game is not always so boring and rigid. Say what you will about the new grind, but all that spirit and all those primal passives at least have the effect of blunting the differences between the gear sets, so that it matters less what gear set you have in the long run for PVE. Hell, I'm raising a mystic alt on 90s mold armor with a low-grade g17 weapon, and I'm sure once I can spare the time for his primal passives he'll be perfectly fine in PVE.

rieihdius

Ok guys, don't get the wrong Idea about my first or second comment on this thread. I am aware that in theory an average non r9 person can survive some of the new content, and of course as me and many others stated before if the person know what she/he is doing said person will not have many problems.

But lets be realistic here, If we take your average g15 or g16 with low pasives, random cards not even leveled, low nuema, low meridian, etc, etc. that person will get owned in that place, I dont call that content Challenging or difficult, it is just plain and simple Annoying.
Because lets face it, one thing is the damage that some of those things can do to an old player with all the hidden stats maxed aside from the gear they wear and other thing very different is the damage they will do to your average fellow, remember that a player can wear g16 vana or g15 but have everything else maxed, said player can even kill an r9 with jades, if the r9 have less spirit, pasives, etc. But again that will not be a new player

Now, does this mean that Neverfall should be easy for pillbaby toons on tt99? Of course not, in fact a pill toon can not even go there due sky level retriction.
But at same time from my point of view is completly idiotic that people with average gear (like some of the ones i helped) get one shoted docens of times by some lame boss on a purple quest while i can even afk on the same thing, or that random mobs can 2 shot those players outside neverfall or that miniboss can one shot a g16 player trying to do white quest in neverfall, yeah white quest, not even purple

Just take as example another mistake that in my opinion China did on this game: UP on chaotic culti: Yes I know, again in theory a g16/g15, skilled person with everything else leveled can be taken there and complete the first boss with not much problem.
But will the strong people take g15/16 average players there? Most of the time no, unless it is a support class maybe or the person is a facmate or a friend.

Why not make the culti easy and the whole glyph farming hard as it is now, In my opinion that would have been even better, so every average player would get their skill and if they want to get better glyps, they either gear up or have patience doing the daily or they just buy from the strong people, the last thing creates a market with something to do for the already geared people and chance for the not so geared people to at least have a few more decent stats.

What did PW China do instead?: Show the mid finger to almost everyone who is not Overgeared, they pretty much draw a line between the strong and weak ones, and at same time killed a potential market since the begening of the neverfall update.
Yes, yes I know someone will say culti is easy and completly posible on tt99 or g13 or whatever
But I dont see many g16 nirvana or g15 with chaotic or saint genie In fact most of the ones that have the last 2 cultis are people from pvp/tw faction in the server I play, most of them r9s3+10 or better. I wonder why....

mayiawolf

srgtwolf wrote: »

This thread has covered a LOT of material and made plenty of good points. I agreed with many of you that, from an OLD player's perspective, the Pillbaby and free TT99 gear seems a cheat for newer players (if they even are new players now). But looking from a new Player's perspective it kind of sucks. That instant jump to 100 kills the class understanding that comes with the old and normal quest leveling. PWI's nerf on Coin drops and the killing of DQ item drops from mobs During questing really sucks, even if JoJ gives greater coin, it takes forever to do. And while the Skill lvling from 1-10 has been adjusted to only cost spirit, it still takes a good number of mobs to recover from teleport costs and to Maintain your gear.

My main is an R9r3 cleric with average (+5) refines. I cant solo TT3-x, and I don't have the time or energy to devote to learning UP, or the new DH instances. Over time, I paid for and farmed coin during 2x for my gear. I cant say I go for 1 side or the other, but it Does get boring. I have tried all the classes asalts, working the quest grind to understand the gameplay, but it is tedious and often boring, since i know most of the game mechanics and quest lines. I have even done the Multi-client to solo instances and Culti bosses. Again, from my perspective as an old player, its Boring and tedious to start over since there's no Incentive.

Years ago before I started playing PWI, I was bouncing other F2P mmo's. I've seen other postings that don't mention names, so I will follow suit, but one of those Games had a Mentoring system. After a certain number of gameplay hours and exceeding a lvl requirement, there was the opportunity to enlist as a mentor. Once you did this, you could help new players coming into the game, and help them progress/understand the mechanics. At certain points in this system, there would be Incentive rewards at incremental stages. The incentives were different for Teacher and Student, but in Both cases, the rewards helped to push you to the next stage, and were better in each jump (dont ask what they were this is bordering on 12 years ago).

If PWI wants to continue pushing new content, and not redirect its efforts to making new players feel more inclined to actually Learning the class, I would institue a system similar to this. In this fashion, new players are actually taught their class, new and old players are working together, and the rewards are such that both sides of the system can utilize.

They should rename 'Find a Mentor' to "Find a Senpai" and add " Find a Kohai" perfect match system.

fititis

First of all if endgame gear was supposed to be easy to get it wouldnt be endgame and they would give it for free and ppl spending thousands must have some kind of advantage!!There are ppl playing for long time and still arent fully endgame gear,progressing slow or fast is what game is all about.

In the new player subject the tt99 is pretty much useless withouth the tailor/blacksmith, but the morai free gear from quest chain is pretty decent in terms of survivability and with total cost of 40ish mil u can have the order morai gear/wpn which basically lets u do most Pve content easily and with some decency. Some clueless ppl might cry when they see it but they will be the ones dying.

As far as PVP goes ye thats a bit trickier and more long term target. Achieving slowly g16 might not be r9 but is still 2nd best gear in game and a lot cheaper. With boundary sky lvls lvled properly and all the free A chests we get from codes you can have a g16 full a cards toon (with a bit of luck some low or high set) and that will most likely open you the door to most pvp factions (depending on your class). After that it is all about learning ur place in TW/Dragon's Conquest, at first u ll be mostly support since most will 1-2 shot u (it involves stay in back and finding the right moment to attack,buffing ur squad members,debuffing opponents thus helping ur stronger faction mates kill ppl,capturing towers or side lanes in Dragon's conquest,doing scout duty etc) and as ur gears progress you ll get stronger till you can jump first vs enemy squad :P A proper faction will recognise ur usefullness and some might even give u a hand with gears or farming stuff u cant do alone.

On the other hand if u want to be op and kill every1 in 2 months ( wont really happen even if u cs like crazy) maybe PS4 is better suited for u

patsybanger

Used to be that if you wanted to put the time in, you could grind for your gear. A $20 or $100 bill here and there helped you along. Now pwi took away every way that a person could make money and it is almost impossible without mortaging your home, selling your truck, spending your college fund, burning up a credit card or all of the above. They don't want 100 dollar bills anymore, they want thousands. Hope this answers your question on how it used to be and unfortunately how it is today.

dregenfox

patsybanger wrote: »

Used to be that if you wanted to put the time in, you could grind for your gear. A $20 or $100 bill here and there helped you along. Now pwi took away every way that a person could make money and it is almost impossible without mortaging your home, selling your truck, spending your college fund, burning up a credit card or all of the above. They don't want 100 dollar bills anymore, they want thousands. Hope this answers your question on how it used to be and unfortunately how it is today.

Ah, I miss the good old days when you only needed to put in a couple thousand dollars into the game to get to a reasonable endgame status. Nowadays a single lvl 8+ glyph costs $1000+, a single NP card costs $2300+, and serenity/devil stone set is $4500. Endgamed 20 apt chart + good stats will likely run you $5000+.

It's not really a problem for PWI players, there are multiple people on each server who have this type of gear. So PWI will keep doing what is working, I suppose.

eeepsilon

bloodedone87 wrote: »

If you were to start fresh from lvl 1 or if you were a newbie with no alts and no in game friends or money to cash shop how would you make in game coins to get the basic r9 ? In how much time do you think you will get there ? And how much time do you think it would be needed to get what is considered today end game gear?

I am asking this questions cause on other thread some old players said that due to free codes that gives free TT99 gear and pills that in one click makes the character go from lvl 1 to 100 is much easier for new player than it was for them when they started.

Well, as most of the other people say, the answer would be that is almost impossible for a new player to get end game in reasonable time nowadays.
Many may tell you things like merchanting or jollys, but considering that a new player deosn't even know about that to begin with....
But even if the person knew: Gold is way more expensive than in the past and r9 is somehow dependent on gold.
So if during the time I got my r9, it costed me like a billion or something, consider the price now would be 4 bill or more, and that is just the r9, add all the other stuff.

Also it would be really hard to be a merchant for a new player nowadays, this due the game being almost dead, and with a fierce competition, remember that there are people on here that are real "Ingame Business Moguls". Those people have not one or two, but docens of catshops and comission shops, plus an insane capital, all this would be not problem in a game with large player base, but that is not case here.
Even Jolly can be a problem for some people, yes even in jolly a new player would have to struggle against people who use bots, mouse macros and some other nasty stuff on the machine.

Also about what the the person that told you about the pill making everything easy:
The pill would not really help someone new, the pill and tt99 sure speed up the level and give you some nice outdated gear to survive some of the old content.
However those items will not really help a new player to get in game money so i don't see much of a point in what that person told you.
So in that case again is what pretty much everyone else said here: The pill is nice for old players alts or even maybe for someone new that wants to speed up the level up process, but it will not help a new player to farm or make money.

Just some final thoughts: There are many things that are killing this game, but among the most important ones are: Lack of new players, huge gap between veterans and average players, the insane amount of RNG the game haves now and if that was not all the fact that they are even trying to force their cashers to be "game slaves"

The lack of players: I think someone already explained that, so not much to say aside from this being really bad for new players.

The gap: well all games have this, however in this one the amount of real money + time you need to catch up is ridiculous.

The RNG: Again, almost all mmos have this, still, this game turned stuff that can be considered real gear/character progression into something random. Clear examples of this are: Meridian, cards, starcharts, etc.
Don't get me wrong on this, I am aware that many games use RNG as a way to drain people from their money and time, so I am not against stuff like packs which are optional, or even gear molds and mats froms bosses that drop on a reasonable amount of time. However when they turn stuff that is almost forced on you to not be a one shot into some sort of "lottery price" well, in that case is not reasonable to keep up anymore.

Trying to to turn cashers into game slaves: I know, This last statement sounds as an exaggeration, But what I am trying to say with this is that PWC is attempting to force a lot of their casher to be farmers/grinders or whatever you want to call it.

While is true that in the past this game was considered pay to win, at least it was way more valanced and fair than now:
You wanted end game gear, refines, shards, and all the nice stuff?
You would either cash or farm or be a merchant, of course you could also be some sort of "Jack of all trades" and do a bit of all of the mentioned before.

However if a casher thinks that now can trow $1500 or something at PWI and have some pvp fun, well sorry to tell you but r9, even r9s3+10 are one shots nowadays.

Now a F2P player may say something like: "good, now i can catch up with the p2w person and own him on pvp?... Right, Right??"

All i can say to them is: Sorry to break your bubble, but as f2p person you would not only have to do all the stuff that the casher is forced to do now, you will also need to make time for doing all the in game money that the casher is trowing at pwi as gold so....

What does this all mean then?
Well it mean that for a hypothetical new player that want to be casher, there is not much reasons to cash, since cashing will not help him too much to skip annoying content. This can also be said for a veteran that wants to make an alt from zero or something.
And nop, I am not a hardcore casher, however I do understand that there are people who work all day and want to have some fun, not to grind or do infinite daily quests all day.