Questions for old players

bloodedone87

If you were to start fresh from lvl 1 or if you were a newbie with no alts and no in game friends or money to cash shop how would you make in game coins to get the basic r9 ? In how much time do you think you will get there ? And how much time do you think it would be needed to get what is considered today end game gear?

I am asking this questions cause on other thread some old players said that due to free codes that gives free TT99 gear and pills that in one click makes the character go from lvl 1 to 100 is much easier for new player than it was for them when they started.

kyoske

to me those codes and gears more benefit older players who want to try a new class and too lazy to level them and im going to use an actual example. I invited a friend to game and used the pill and gears on her. So now we have a level 100 person with crappy gear and no idea what to do. Firstly i told her do the cultivation quest, she did up to the stage she could rb, but what comes next, tt99 gear will get you killed in primal and morai on some classes, so she couldnt go there and older players have so many dailies on our plate(yes im a horrible friend who may not have helped as much), but the point is i dont think a new player would really benefit from those pills, lvl 100 with no help and no direction would probably turn them away, Those codes are more useful to older players who want to try new classes and too lazy to level them.
My friend eventually created a new toon and she is playing from level one, she even invited another friend of hers so both of them are playing together, once they reach level 100 i may drop some nv2 on them and take them to fws. The point is if a new player with no connections started this game they would have no chance. they maybe okay up to level 100, but after they will have it rough. People will say **** about how they can get coins from bh and jj, but bh barely gives coins and jj is only profittable if u have time and a whole lot of alts, imagine a new player being told they have to lvl 10 toons to lvl 75 to do jj. PWI is not new player friendly. I would suggest they give every new player free nv2, but of course old players would abuse that too.
As someone said in one of these threads some time ago, older players were introduce to content gradually, Poor new players will be hit by all this content and no one to help them.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

wildz2

I'm not an old player (newbie)
But; Merching over farming

BH used to be an ok income before update.
JJ as always (last 6 months, im newb) been for people bad at maths.

A little bit of farming tt/WS and investing most of what you get out of it.

People keep complaining about how prices of TT99 gear dropped when the free gear came out.
I figured raps and cannies would have a high demand, invested there, made 500m out of 50m, in roughly 2-3 weeks.

Farming for the crafting mats for BS/Tailor skills were also highly profitable, since all these pillbabies needed their crafting skills.

Need to evolve as the economy evolves.
I'm still way far from end game gear though.

greenfire312

2008 player here, and I will point out before anything else that the lowgame and midgame have been basically destroyed over the years. You get handed free gear until you don't, then you start begging for it (QSM). You get handed a crappy mount and flyer and a bunch of pots, presumably so you "don't have to" spend on anything. Then you get quests, almost none of which give a coin value above five digits anymore (and most not even that). Virtually all dropped items are worthless. Jones money is fine, if you're willing to stay in the 70s for weeks if not months (and that's assuming you even know about Jones as a newbie). Nobody squads for TT anymore except for BH runs, so if you don't care to join a faction and beg for help, you're SOL unless you rely on QSM gear until 95 Morai. Finally here you are at endgame, maybe with TT99 if you got the pill code, no mirages to speak of for refining, no coin to speak of for making shards or any sort of gear upgrades. BH rewards just got nerfed hard so good luck getting anything done there.

Functionally speaking, it has turned into a paywall, and that's not sustainable long-term. PWI grew and has lasted as long as it has primarily because it doesn't succumb to the same quasi-micropayment "you must spend X amount of money to realistically continue" bull that other F2P games have (in fact - and many newbies might not know this - before PWI was released, the original PW was designed first as a pay to play game). To see it squander this legacy is frankly painful to watch.

There need to be reliable, consistent and renewable ways for people to make money. Jones is actually a good model, and if it were applied to endgame characters, it would really solve a lot of problems. Maybe we can't restore DQ values or coin rewards to quests Because China™, but PWE has got to have some tools they can use. Hell, send out an ecstasy card ticket or two in the mail every week to any active account with less than 10mil across all characters. It wouldn't be a perfect solution, but it would help until China got its act together and made our version more sustainable. (Side note: Would this be abused by people with 100 accounts? Yes. Counterpoint: Are those same people currently abusing Jones? Hell yes.)

@wildz2 - You cannot expect most newbies to merchant. Maybe it was different for you, but "welcome to endgame! now study these markets and make a new catshop account which will sit for weeks making meager profits before you have the money to continue" doesn't sound like my idea of a good time.

eirghan

I am an old player, but not one who believes that the pills etc that are given gives that much of a boost.

"Back in the day" when i started *taps cane* legitimately all I needed to do to be "end game" was level to 100 once and get gear and skills. I mean I wasn't OP by any stretch or in any top tier TW faction, but I could do BH100s and solo a good portion of dungeons. I had probably been playing for about a year. Mind you I flew frigging everywhere and did the actual quest route for my crafting skills (10/10 would not recommend) so it probably took me longer than most.


PWI has all but eliminated that first few months of "first life" stuff. Its easier to get around, sure. You get maps and tele stones and no coin cost for level 10 skills. But you still have to do Morai (if you want the skills for free) and you still have to find a way to manufacture if you want your gear g16 with your own NW tokens and own tt99. BUT, thats not even a drop in the pool. Now we have to look at expansions. RB twice, 5 sky levels (one of which takes LEGITIMATELY months to complete), get all of the passives and skills from primal bloods, farm rep for homestead, start homestead, do homestead dailies for (at minimum) skills, nuema farming for your nuema levels, Do FSP for 2730 c packs for war avatar cards, level to at least 103 to get current culti, farm coin and spirit for THOSE skills... All that alone has got to be at least a year, maybe two to complete, even with the short cuts offered. That isnt even everything, there is still AEU and skill books, refines, shards, i'm sure there is more. But it's way too much to list. That stuff alone is far more than I ever did starting out. For that I dont think its "Easier" for new players nowdays at all. New players dont even have half as many people as I did in my time to run instances with or do pheonix valley and they have 50x the stuff to do.

Farm r9 now? You'd be hard pressed to if you didnt have a smart "in" on merchanting. Maybe farm fsp or cube, but coin value of rank 9 alone (not counting any coins needed for rep, even farmed from FSP, or any of the previous things mentioned like skills, C packs, neuma if you buy them, crafting skill setc) is around 2.6B on my server. That's about 1500 cogs. At 2 a day thats about 2 years for just the gear. (Unless you are an OP level 1 noob with 20 alts and 6 hours a day)​​

nightmare201

Pretty much what everyone else said, there's an insane amount of catch up if you aren't paying money.

goldfinch47

I'm in no rush. There are days when I don't feel like doing the dailies so I don't. No harm done. I still get the satisfaction of making progress, one tiny step at a time.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

kyoske

@wildz2 you really didnt think before writing that post did you. Now this thread was about new players so let me ask you this, one if i were a new player given level 100 automatically and tt99 gear and that's assuming the person started during this phase. I would equip my gear yes, ask around where to put stat points. I would locate my quest window and be mindblown what the hell should i do first. someone said do cultis, so i did im now out of celestial vale, every low level culti is a walk over because im lvl 100 now with lvl 99 gear, now i do all of this, ive already unlocked morai, which some classes wont survive in tt99 gear worst primal. so as a newbie unless i have someone to help im done there.
Here is the truth you are speaking from a merchants view, which would only benefit older players again who need to upgrade their alts gears. You are also speaking as if u assume those new players are going to have a lot of money to buy your stuff, they dont.
What new players need is direction. Things used to be so simple, we didnt have this celestial vale ****, manufacturing was more straight forward, people dont even manu no more because the best gear at your level is dropped in caves. Its just not straight forward anymore. Next pwi needs to introduce new pve content which can be enjoyed by all levels. Not more quest and grinding but more profittable instances and scenarios.

wildz2

kyoske wrote: »

@wildz2 you really didnt think before writing that post did you. Now this thread was about new players so let me ask you this, one if i were a new player given level 100 automatically and tt99 gear and that's assuming the person started during this phase. I would equip my gear yes, ask around where to put stat points. I would locate my quest window and be mindblown what the hell should i do first. someone said do cultis, so i did im now out of celestial vale, every low level culti is a walk over because im lvl 100 now with lvl 99 gear, now i do all of this, ive already unlocked morai, which some classes wont survive in tt99 gear worst primal. so as a newbie unless i have someone to help im done there.
Here is the truth you are speaking from a merchants view, which would only benefit older players again who need to upgrade their alts gears. You are also speaking as if u assume those new players are going to have a lot of money to buy your stuff, they dont.

If you cant handle morai in tt99, go play outside, you cant handle a computer.
People I've helped are all handling themselves around Neverfall in their TT99.
(Probly wont on last questchain)

I'm not speaking as an old player, since I am a new player.

Merching low cost items costs low and still profits...you dont need to have millions to invest, just to be smart.

But as a guy who really didnt think before writting, i'm surprised i do 1000x better than people so smart and complaining.


(Then again, as someone pointed out, we cant expect everyone to merch around, I guess for some it most be boring, for me it just seems easier doing what i want and letting the catshop do the job for me)

kyoske

@wildz2 dude back off, notice i said some classes, please dont try to start a debate about things you know nothing about. We are talking about new players who dont know anything about this game and immediately jump to lvl 100. You arent new you're a liar, even if you just created a new toon your account has been around since 2012, it's people like you that talk **** and discourage anyone who maybe trying to help the cause or make a point get lost dude.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

wildz2

kyoske wrote: »

@wildz2 dude back off, notice i said some classes, please dont try to start a debate about things you know nothing about. We are talking about new players who dont know anything about this game and immediately jump to lvl 100. You arent new you're a liar, even if you just created a new toon your account has been around since 2012, it's people like you that talk **** and discourage anyone who maybe trying to help the cause or make a point get lost dude.

Dude, created account in 2012, never played.

Created toon in september, started playing.

And notice i didnt mention classes, cause i imply that EVERY class can.


Just face it, you're bad.
Probably one of those guys who cant WS with r9

rieihdius

wildz2 wrote: »

If you cant handle morai in tt99, go play outside, you cant handle a computer.
People I've helped are all handling themselves around Neverfall in their TT99.
(Probly wont on last questchain)

No offence but considering that normal mobs on neverfall can hit a g16 vana with cards and even some average decent amount of spirit + primal pasives and refines for about 1000 to 2000 damage per hit, it is hard to believe for me that people can survive on tt99, unless said gear is highly refined or the person is just old player with almost all their pasives and other stuff leveled, wearing that just to test. But in that case would not even be a pill toon to begin with.

Or maybe you are talking about the very first mobs that you find before going to Neverfall city, in that case I guess it is posible.

Also im pretty sure tt99 cant survive Natya on quest chain, She one shots g16s fully buffed people. From about 15 people wearing g16 that I helped on that boss, all of them got 1 or 2 shoted a lot of times, the ones that got less deaths were a seeker and barb, both really well refined and not alts, but they still droped one or two times.

On the other hand, on morai part I have to agree. Morai is totally posible with tt80/90, fc 85 or qsm 85 gear, the person would just need help for bosses which is normal.

blazerboy

The moment someone explained how much it takes to catch up id be gone tbh

brantanor

blazerboy wrote: »

The moment someone explained how much it takes to catch up id be gone tbh

I recently (a week) came back to pwi because i got bored with another game. That being said, i enjoyed continuing from where i left off 2 years ago.

Everything became more 'complicated' for old players that just got back, and in our oldies guild we're trying to figure things out as we go (not that hard). But the sheer cost of it all, not just R9 but homestead and all the new things is mindboggling. I left this game because without paying RL cash i couldn't keep up with the cost of progressing, but now it's getting totally crazy.

I made a pillbaby again with the available codes, and truth be told, it sucks. Not only don't you have any coins, you have so many different things to do (like getting rep for homestead, 35K seriously ? you never get that questing 1-100) that require CASH. Something newbies don't have unless they pay for it.

I just play the game now till my next game on my wishlist comes out. Then i'm off again and then they can shove this game where the sun don't shine. Player numbers are declining constantly because PWI is way to greedy and way to stingy on coin. You need to kill 10+ mobs to pay for 1 (one) teleport fee and DQ items are useless. And don't get me started on coins from quests.

Playing as a newbie ? I'd be gone in a flash, no way in hell i'd go through that ordeal.

And how much time do you think it would be needed to get what is considered today end game gear?

Wayyyyy to long, without investing even 1 cent into the game, just farming ? about 3 years is my guess. Playing at least 6-8 hrs/day.

kyoske

@rieihdius let me just explain the morai thing. If you put a veteran player in tt99 he/she could do wonder, but im using actually examples here. I invited a friend her toon was veno and i advise her to do her culti, she did them right up to the point that she could rb, i helped with bosses, but her gear made her low level cultis easy. Morai she had trouble there and i think it stemmed from the fact that in morai all if not most mobs are aggroed, so he got ganged up on and two she didnt know enough about her class. I keep saying that this thread is about new players and im not talking about you, but our dumb friend who created his account in 2012 but just started to actually play the game feels he knows it all. I also find it weird how you never actually played the game before but you posted on threads about your experience in the game in the year 2012. Say you're a returning player dont lie and say you're new.

forbiddenwords

I remember a friend showed this game to me years ago and we both made new toons to level up together. I started out as a cleric, my friend made a sin. I was so confused and kept dying so much even to mobs around my level because I didn't know how to properly play my class. My friend, too, was new to his class, but unlike me he had experience with the game so it was easy for him to get around. Sometimes he even got annoyed and frustrated I couldn't keep up with him, pointing out how easy it was to survive.

My point is: yes, it's easy to get by if you know how to make the most out of your class. But only if you are experienced. If you are completely new, everything feels hard and confusing. And most old players fail to look at things from the perspective of inexperienced players.

Like everyone else pointed out, giving new players instant lvl 100 and TT99 doesn't help. If anything, it only makes things worse because they rush all the learning steps we, old players, had to go through. Not to mention all the coins you need to progress. It's like giving a random person an anatomy book and some tools and expecting them to perform a flawless surgery on a dying person.​​

blazerboy

^ this is actually super accurate lol

kyoske

Where is the like button. @forbiddenwords you get it and i agree with you

bloodedone87

If someone new would start playing this game on time they give codes for pills that lvl up and free TT99 gear I would tell him/her this: Redeem the codes and keep those items in the mailbox. just lvl up by questing and when he/she reaches lvl 80-90 or feel it is to tedious to lvl up just by question to use the items. If they feel like lvl up untill 99 just questing I would say : go for it.

jsxshadow

Completely new..without anything? I wouldn't bother with PWI.

IF I would then ofc create at least 3 accs when they give out the Level/free TT99-Pills and roll a Barb, cleric, Assassin and Duskblade (those 4 at least) on 4 different accounts. With that you can solo basic TT instances (1-x/2-x) and earn your first few coins. Then you can build up from there, gear your chars to g15, get ornaments, all that jazz, then go for G16. A G16 DB with Buffs and a cleric healing him can easily walk through TT3-3 and thats what you should farm. Ofc you should focus on one class by then (the class you want to play mainly). If you invest 5-6 hours a day you can achieve basic r9 in approx. 4 months given that you have to gear the twinks as well, get rep, do dailies as well, etc. ...

With 1 account only? GTFO. Nah. The way this game goes atm it is designed to use multiple accounts, except ofc, you have someone to play with you all the time. Then go 2 accs each. 1 acc...nah, just nah. You can't achieve anything in this game without CS and only 1 acc anymore. It's sad, yes, but it's true...so just don't bother and move along to the next game.

And yeah, definitly look for a mentor of sorts that tells you what to do. If they are interested in endgame I suggest looking for a Test-ground (y'all know what I mean) and play around a bit. Then it won't be as confusing.

riverwillow

As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, PWI is NOT newbie-friendly anymore. Back when I started (2007 or so), you could earn some decent income for a low person from drops, and it was more fun making your own lower level gears, as we didn't have all these freebies. But now that PWI has taken away pretty much any way to get coin without zen, and all but nerfed the lower level use of manufacturing skills, it's probably best to just leave the game to us old timers, and find another MMO to play. Sorry if that's harsh, but it's true. PWI has no one to blame but their own greed.

jsxshadow

If they would at least make CSing worthwhile..but their pricing is ridiculous. I could name at least 10 other games in which you can be completely maxed out gear-wise with 1k Dollar. In PWI you would'nt even be average geared after spending 1k...just saying.

blazerboy

@jsxshadow 10 games go!

rieihdius

kyoske wrote: »

@rieihdius let me just explain the morai thing. If you put a veteran player in tt99 he/she could do wonder, but im using actually examples here. I invited a friend her toon was veno and i advise her to do her culti, she did them right up to the point that she could rb, i helped with bosses, but her gear made her low level cultis easy. Morai she had trouble there and i think it stemmed from the fact that in morai all if not most mobs are aggroed, so he got ganged up on and two she didnt know enough about her class. I keep saying that this thread is about new players and im not talking about you, but our dumb friend who created his account in 2012 but just started to actually play the game feels he knows it all. I also find it weird how you never actually played the game before but you posted on threads about your experience in the game in the year 2012. Say you're a returning player dont lie and say you're new.

Indeed, morai can be a challenge for a new player. When I say that is posible, I was not really talking about someone new or old in particular, what I mean is that the gear: tt99 and lower, even 80 can keep someone alive on that place, of course the lower the gear the more hard it will be and of course the person need to be aware of basic mob/game mechanics.

In my honest opinion I don't see a pill as something good for new players, Things that a new player would need are:
- More fun and rewarding low level content
- maybe some daily event that is fun but not forced to do and catered to lowies and mid levels, not rb people.
- Lots of people of same level range to do all that stuff with

Probably from all that listed, what new players need most are other new players. One of the main reason why this game is what it is now, is due the company completly neglecting their new players. In fact at some point this company even stoped advertising pwi, they removed referal program and even changed name (the publisher) like almost to completly bury the relation between this game and the company, plus many other things they did like the whole FC stuff.

What is even worse than the gap between a new player and a really old one is the lack of other players that can do stuff with those new players.

In my personal opinion a pill will really help an old player with alts. To a new player will not be of much use.
Even I, as an old player, used it on some lvl 70+ alts and still I don't feel really good at playing some of those.
And of course I have a r9 main and years of in game experience that can feed those alts.

So to answer the OP question: I would not start from zero on PWI, I mean i am semi retired now and I actually have a decent geared character and even like that I don't feel like playing too much, I just do neverfall dailies and nw
At that rhythm, I will be a completly non factor pvp wise very soon.
So if for someone like me with actually good gear is not fun to keep up anymore, Imagine a new player.

jsxshadow wrote: »

If they would at least make CSing worthwhile..but their pricing is ridiculous. I could name at least 10 other games in which you can be completely maxed out gear-wise with 1k Dollar. In PWI you would'nt even be average geared after spending 1k...just saying.

Agree. Aactually Im playing another game, and by just questing on that game and doing basic auction merchanting with mob drops, I got in less than a week enough money to get what is considered the 2nd or 3rd best pvp set on the game, even better said gear can evolve into the current meta, that aside said set is completly overkill on pve, funy thing is that I got it, and i can not even wear it due my character being still low level.

Said game of course also have its flaws, like the economy is also kind of destroyed now and healing items are way more expensive than pwi. Like seriously I burn more in game money there on pots than on gear

But just as an example, this would be like in pwi you could buy r9s1 for 20 mill or something
Now I know this sound sort of insane and is something we will never see here but still kind of funny how different is the gear progresion system on that game compared to this one.

Due forum rules I will not say the name of the game, but as a clue: every class can be like a veno there, like you can tame anything and use it as a mount, flyer or battle pet. And you can battle on your mount/flyer.

srgtwolf

This thread has covered a LOT of material and made plenty of good points. I agreed with many of you that, from an OLD player's perspective, the Pillbaby and free TT99 gear seems a cheat for newer players (if they even are new players now). But looking from a new Player's perspective it kind of sucks. That instant jump to 100 kills the class understanding that comes with the old and normal quest leveling. PWI's nerf on Coin drops and the killing of DQ item drops from mobs During questing really sucks, even if JoJ gives greater coin, it takes forever to do. And while the Skill lvling from 1-10 has been adjusted to only cost spirit, it still takes a good number of mobs to recover from teleport costs and to Maintain your gear.

My main is an R9r3 cleric with average (+5) refines. I cant solo TT3-x, and I don't have the time or energy to devote to learning UP, or the new DH instances. Over time, I paid for and farmed coin during 2x for my gear. I cant say I go for 1 side or the other, but it Does get boring. I have tried all the classes asalts, working the quest grind to understand the gameplay, but it is tedious and often boring, since i know most of the game mechanics and quest lines. I have even done the Multi-client to solo instances and Culti bosses. Again, from my perspective as an old player, its Boring and tedious to start over since there's no Incentive.

Years ago before I started playing PWI, I was bouncing other F2P mmo's. I've seen other postings that don't mention names, so I will follow suit, but one of those Games had a Mentoring system. After a certain number of gameplay hours and exceeding a lvl requirement, there was the opportunity to enlist as a mentor. Once you did this, you could help new players coming into the game, and help them progress/understand the mechanics. At certain points in this system, there would be Incentive rewards at incremental stages. The incentives were different for Teacher and Student, but in Both cases, the rewards helped to push you to the next stage, and were better in each jump (dont ask what they were this is bordering on 12 years ago).

If PWI wants to continue pushing new content, and not redirect its efforts to making new players feel more inclined to actually Learning the class, I would institue a system similar to this. In this fashion, new players are actually taught their class, new and old players are working together, and the rewards are such that both sides of the system can utilize.

blazerboy

I think PWIs biggest problem isn't the money aspect many new players who can afford to cs can easily catch up tbh the problem is the rediculous amount of blood required to catch up and then maintaining a account on pwi is just rediculous there is no incentive to try and work hard knowing if you took say a 6 month break you're so behind by the time you catch up there's another endless grind. I'm not saying make everything easier but simple things such as blood can be made easier the last update was a good start though but the barbaric blood amount is still rediculous. Heck you can buy sky level but that's pointless when you need bloods too so you might aswell do the dailies it's free vitae and you get blood too. If PWI sold bloods with the pills maybe you can attract rich spenders but eh for a completely new player F2P you're stacked agianst the wall and Cashers it's so much work to maintain you don't want to bother. Or open up the buy account legally option for us at the rate of our population I think we need it more than china

kyoske

@blazerboy to me before we start focusing on bloods we need to focus on getting the players. As someone said above new players need new players and PWI dont promote the game as they used to. I remember as a new player, i would squad with others on the same level, this gave me and others a chance to learn our class. I dont think a real new player would be so focused on catching up, instead i think they would want to learn and enjoy the game, but they have no one to enjoy it with and no veteran has the time to teach anyone anymore.
Think about this if a new player ask you for help and let's say you do, you go to the instance and speed through killing the boss and all, the newbie stands behind u in amazed, want to be like you, but still didnt get the opportunity to learn anything about what his/her toon can do in that instance. New players need new players.

greenfire312

wildz2 wrote: »

(Then again, as someone pointed out, we cant expect everyone to merch around, I guess for some it most be boring, for me it just seems easier doing what i want and letting the catshop do the job for me)

Yeah, that's about the size of it. See, a game ultimately has to be fun or there's no point. We established players, we have our own methods of fun, depending on the person. But you have to look at it from a total newbie's perspective. Wait on catshop for months or play a different game? No contest there.

rieihdius wrote: »

Also im pretty sure tt99 cant survive Natya on quest chain, She one shots g16s fully buffed people. From about 15 people wearing g16 that I helped on that boss, all of them got 1 or 2 shoted a lot of times, the ones that got less deaths were a seeker and barb, both really well refined and not alts, but they still droped one or two times.

On the other hand, on morai part I have to agree. Morai is totally posible with tt80/90, fc 85 or qsm 85 gear, the person would just need help for bosses which is normal.

For what it's worth, when I did Natya Veda on my archer, he was full g15 lunar nirv +5 and I didn't die. I came pretty damn close, granted, and probably would've without HP charm and primal passives, but yeah - didn't die. Had about 16k HP buffed at the time. When I get around to it on my 32k HP barb (also g15, except for the warsoul wep), I imagine it'll be less of an issue.