Fake TW Bidding Abounds on PWI
Comments
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TW is a major part of this game for many players. When the players start to be greedy and try to work around the system, the elusive GM needs to take action and so something to fix the problem. If the number of views on this thread is any indication of the importance of this topic, many people would welcome a comment from domino as to how pwi will address this matter.0
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Ehm... No refunds for highest bidder. Only 50% back for the rest. And a history per faction with their winning bids versus presence in won bids. And wins.Dawnglory - SpellStormer (105 x 3): http://mypers.pw/10/#4359480
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Ok just a Quick note for this thread.
In my notes Ive added this info in to be dealt with and a suggestion for the future.
Thanks.0 -
Curiously, this week the faction who likes fake bidding week after week on my server did not fake bid to prevent attacks. I doubt they will do it again anytime soon. As you see, the number of views in this thread shows that it is not an unimportant matter for the player base, also you can see they know they're wrong.
Bottom Line: Everyone knows that fake bidding is wrong, and there is not no such reason to support it. But due to the lack of enforcement of TW rules from PWE staff, They feel free to exploit the system.
Unfortunately, this temp obedience for TW rules will fade away as they see no enforcement/punishment from PWE.0 -
We had staff member on another thread ask bnut fake bidding. We will see if this all has any impact on things but if staff finally starts enforcing rules again we should be fine.killermystic said:Curiously, this week the faction who likes fake bidding week after week on my server did not fake bid to prevent attacks. I doubt they will do it again anytime soon. As you see, the number of views in this thread shows that it is not an unimportant matter for the player base, also you can see they know they're wrong.
Bottom Line: Everyone knows that fake bidding is wrong, and there is not no such reason to support it. But due to the lack of enforcement of TW rules from PWE staff, They feel free to exploit the system.
Unfortunately, this temp obedience for TW rules will fade away as they see no enforcement/punishment from PWE.
Honestly, the only reason and I mean the only reason why this game has any bigger spenders left is TW and the staff should treat it as such. Its the one thing other games lack and if a new game ever comes out with similar system, PWI lose lot of its playerbase. Personally only reason I log nowdays is TW, most my friends are the same, some of whom basically quit still miss TWs.0 -
Well, it lasted 1 week. This week a guild who is controlled by a member of the of the guild it just attacked outbid a landholding faction. The land is Fragrant Hills on Etherblade. Maybe this specific example can be looked at and an easy ban carried out. I feel sorry for the guild that week after week has to bid on themselves to keep their land.0
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If you want to see how easy it is to spot fakes bids, feel free to take a look at this week's TW bids on Dawnglory. Not even funny
Dawnglory - SpellStormer (105 x 3): http://mypers.pw/10/#4359480 -
Hi all,
Hope all are well!
I believe that whole bidding system has to change - and I will start a new thread if my ticket doesn't get dealt with, as we just got outbid with a bid way over 10 bank notes by an alt guild of 4 members.
Whole Bidding System has to change, Money should NOT be the ONLY relevancy - IT should be something new!
There are multiple factors that could determine the attack priority, in game Archlord it was
Guild Age
Guild Leader Level
Number of active guild members
Money put on bid
I would say for PWI it could be:
1- Guild Size
2- Guild average members level
3- Guild Age
4- Guild Leader Age and Level
5- Guild average Soul of Force
6- Money
Thank you!
Mono
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What are we talking about, if PWI wanted to, it would already be extremely easy to detect TW abusers.
Since we live in a fantasy world, let's thro some more ideas around:
1. Guilds under 6 months of age sould not be allowed to bet. -> helps creating a stronger community, prevents spamming new fake TW guilds.
2. Guilds that are not even 30% towards maxing out base would not be allowed to bet.
3. Guilds that have repeteadly bid and lost should be prevented from doing so, for 6 months. Let's say..ratio of less than 30%, maybe 20% wins.
4. And the most controversial one...guilds whose members are frequently changed (TBD, for example: more than 40% of members changed during previous 6 months) would not be allowed to bid for the subsequent 3 months.
Dawnglory - SpellStormer (105 x 3): http://mypers.pw/10/#4359480 -
magiceffect wrote: »What are we talking about, if PWI wanted to, it would already be extremely easy to detect TW abusers.Since we live in a fantasy world, let's thro some more ideas around:
1. Guilds under 6 months of age sould not be allowed to bet. -> helps creating a stronger community, prevents spamming new fake TW guilds.
2. Guilds that are not even 30% towards maxing out base would not be allowed to bet.
3. Guilds that have repeteadly bid and lost should be prevented from doing so, for 6 months. Let's say..ratio of less than 30%, maybe 20% wins.
4. And the most controversial one...guilds whose members are frequently changed (TBD, for example: more than 40% of members changed during previous 6 months) would not be allowed to bid for the subsequent 3 months.
These are all dumb and just promote server stagnation.0 -
1. Its relatively easy to fill alt faction with alts if one so pleases. There are factions, which can get on map with 20 ppl in faction and adding priority regarding amount of members would kinda make legit factions life harder..monoftalm said:
1- Guild Size
2- Guild average members level
3- Guild Age
4- Guild Leader Age and Level
5- Guild average Soul of Force
6- Money
Thank you!
Mono
2. This could work but knowing pwi they will struggle with average level due rebirths.
3. This will only promote stagnation.
4. Seems bit silly restriction, level maybe but the age restriction is something Im not a fan of. People have plenty of accounts nowdays as they get access to them when owners quit for good.
5. Average SF is problematic as it will only lead to gear elitism. Something like top10 highest soulforce players sum divided by 10 might work. If you have less than 10 players, you prolly arent legit bidder anyways.
Not trying to shoot everything down, I simply feel our current system is pretty amazing if it was monitored. Making some general rules, which apply fairly to all guilds is difficult.0 -
correct me if I am wrong. Out current bid limit is : 99 notes = 990,000,000. Unless the alt faction put this amount of coins on the bid, other factions can still bid and beat the fake bid.0
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You only get one bid. And no faction wants to waste coin by bidding too high, not should they have to because of fake bidders. I don't think this is the first week monoftalm's guild has had their tw opportunity taken away by fake bids.0
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Yes, because the average faction has nearly one billion coins to throw every week so that they can actually TW....mintsummer wrote: »correct me if I am wrong. Out current bid limit is : 99 notes = 990,000,000. Unless the alt faction put this amount of coins on the bid, other factions can still bid and beat the fake bid.
You're correct, but seriously, if the average faction can only drop 200m, and the fake bids are 500m, nothing changes.
Maybe you should revert the bid limit back to what it was. Nope, because then the fake bids will just drop 200m as soon as bidding opens.
What we need is for the support team to actually provide support. For that to happen, we will need a Support Team that is actually staffed, and is actually familiar with the game. (Having a small number of people just pushing tickets around with no knowledge of the client just doesn't work. Especially when they are so overloaded that they don't even bother to read the actual ticket content or respond adequately.)0 -
Its a problematic issue. What ever you do it will never be perfect.
Maybe something like this:
- Revert max bid to 200m
- Factions can rebid on a land when they outbid. Make it like the auction house, get a message when you are outbid ,get your money back and let them allow to bid again.
- If 2 Factions bid max amount the system should check for the stronger faction ( like mentioned before guild age, members or other factors) and then select this faction to be the winner of the bid.
Now what happen on Dawnglory this week is a totally different story and cannot be solved by the bidding system.
Since some *fake* factions attacked lands nobody was bidding on to create a gank. I still have no idea why this happend.
The only *ligit* faction who attacked as well has no problems to actually beat the ganked faction.
Nobody actually gains anything out of those fake bids. Not the ganked faction and not the real attacking faction.
For me this seems are attacks just to **** off someone. But who and why? God knows.....
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Technically true. 1 billion coins is bout 250 bucks though. You lose 10% of your bid which is 25 bucks/week at max bid. To put it into perspective you gain ~20m per tier 3 land weekly, which is bout 5 bucks.mintsummer said:correct me if I am wrong. Out current bid limit is : 99 notes = 990,000,000. Unless the alt faction put this amount of coins on the bid, other factions can still bid and beat the fake bid.
Bidding at max bid you invest 5000% of the income land gives weekly and you lose 400% of the bid value on first week. Assuming you win the bid and war that follows, it takes ~month for land to pay itself back. Very few factions are willing to bid max to get their war and they really shouldnt when fake bidding is clear violation of TW rules set by staff.0 -
Hello Mint,mintsummer said:correct me if I am wrong. Out current bid limit is : 99 notes = 990,000,000. Unless the alt faction put this amount of coins on the bid, other factions can still bid and beat the fake bid.
Glad you are here and hope your doing well!
I got involved as this week a fake guild bid after my bid and outbid me with lots of notes (way over 10). That guild has 4 alts. 2 Weeks back we submitted a ticket for them bidding on us and not showing up - which is also against the ToS and RoC.
Make no mistake about this,It is both irrational and unreasonable for any valid guild to put hundreds of millions in bids knowing it will lose 10% each week just to outbid a faker.
In more cases than not - we are talking about guilds controlled by alts of another TW guild (directly or indirectly).
Goal of these ppl is to abuse broken bidding system as a tool to try weaken and discourage guilds from participating in TWs, growing, having fun, winning.
GMs got this fixed by in 2012 by setting up series of rules that discourage fakers (http://pwi-forum.gdevtalk.net/showthread3a04.html?p=17405481&mode=threaded) This did server well for few years.
I believe that either bidding rules must be updated or GMs should have a button to remove fake bids after times are set up - simply by looking into who bid on what land each week.
I know this is extra work but hey - this will put order and happiness into PWI.
Also @saxroll
Try to focus and promote positive attitude and support the desire and will power of players to change things to better, my suggestions as well as other may have been brought up within a 2 min thinking because they are bringing up ideas. Ideas are good, and unless you know a system that worked in other games and can call on it for here you might as well simply support all of the ideas and have the GMs decide what will be the effect.0 -
I see problems in those ideas. Just because ideas are good and bring different views on fixing issues, finding the downsides before implementing said ideas is just as important. I have provided a possible fix for this issue in this thread earlier but on a longer thought it might have some chance of abuse. We have pretty brilliant system, which only restricts the things which needs to be restricted. It requires manpower PWE isnt willing to spend but really, the best thing for us would be for staff to monitor the situation.monoftalm said:
Try to focus and promote positive attitude and support the desire and will power of players to change things to better, my suggestions as well as other may have been brought up within a 2 min thinking because they are bringing up ideas. Ideas are good, and unless you know a system that worked in other games and can call on it for here you might as well simply support all of the ideas and have the GMs decide what will be the effect.
They could name liaisons out of players who will inform them off fake bids so all they would have to do is investigate bids those liaisons bring up to them. The only problem in that would be finding players who can tell which bids are fake and are unbiased. For example we had people calling Sonatas bid on Flipside a fake bid as people arent familiar with the faction. While its small, has few members and most of those are alts it still stands a real chance of winning a TW making it a legit bid.0 -
Just tossing this in here....GMs got this fixed by in 2012 by setting up series of rules that discourage fakers (http://pwi-forum.gdevtalk.net/showthread3a04.html?p=17405481&mode=threaded) This did server well for few years.
...
The current thread stating the rules.....
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/pwi#/discussion/745527/official-territory-war-bidding-rules0 -
"...we are the only version that polices these types of fake bids and we pride ourselves for not turning a blind eye to it." - My favorite part of the "rules".0
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"...we are the only version that polices these types of fake bids and we pride ourselves for not turning a blind eye to it." - My favorite part of the "rules".
That was posted back in 2012. Which, at the time, was probably the height of PWE's support era. If you don't count the time when it was just 4 or 5 servers, a few hundred thousand players, and 12 dedicated GM's not supporting a bunch of other games.
Now it's like maybe 20 college interns supporting millions of players on something like 18 different titles now.0 -
I realize it will take longer for things to happen, but It would be great to see the rules still enforced.0
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Just delete this useless rules, ru/chinese and others perfectly lives with fake bids for years,specially since chinese reduced time between battles to 1min.0
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What's the point in the whole bidding system if you unable to overbid others? Everyone would just bid 1 note.0
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^ Sounds like a coward from one of those fake bidding factions. Why bother deleting rules that aren't being enforced, unless you're worried that all this fuss will bring some GM notice and enforcement? I'd say that removing the rules and opening up fake bidding to everyone, not just the lowlife cheats, would make for a slightly more fair environment, but that would only further reduce the amount of actual TWs fought. I for one prefer hard fought TW's, win or lose, but I guess I'm in the minority. Seems far too many just want an easy win.mars19 said:Just delete this useless rules, ru/chinese and others perfectly lives with fake bids for years,specially since chinese reduced time between battles to 1min.
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Coz i played on chinese and russian servers and saw only 1-3 fake bids per week and it was usually to prevent some trash factions gank on you to get 1v1 with real ones. Top factions have normal tws with each other,coz they making huge bids. And all pwi top factions made fake bids sometime don't be naive)))perrion said:
^ Sounds like a coward from one of those fake bidding factions. Why bother deleting rules that aren't being enforced, unless you're worried that all this fuss will bring some GM notice and enforcement? I'd say that removing the rules and opening up fake bidding to everyone, not just the lowlife cheats, would make for a slightly more fair environment, but that would only further reduce the amount of actual TWs fought. I for one prefer hard fought TW's, win or lose, but I guess I'm in the minority. Seems far too many just want an easy win.mars19 said:Just delete this useless rules, ru/chinese and others perfectly lives with fake bids for years,specially since chinese reduced time between battles to 1min.
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"only 1-3 fake bids per week" That's more than what we get here, seems like it's a problem there too. Do they have 3 month seasons over there? Each fake bid steals one week away from a legitimate faction, when you only have 12 weeks to work with, that's a big deal.mars19 said:Coz i played on chinese and russian servers and saw only 1-3 fake bids per week and it was usually to prevent some trash factions gank on you to get 1v1 with real ones. Top factions have normal tws with each other,coz they making huge bids. And all pwi top factions made fake bids sometime don't be naive)))
And no, all top factions don't make fake bids, you're just projecting your own corruption and assuming everyone is is just as lousy as you are.
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if pw would enforce certian rules, such as being an officer faction A you cant have an alt in another faction that does tw, i know people who are officers in several tw faction. or just ban people for having alts in other factions period.0
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@chary feel free to contribute constructively. Your own ideas would be most welcome
Would we break TOS or forum rules if we create a thread for user reported fake bids?Dawnglory - SpellStormer (105 x 3): http://mypers.pw/10/#4359480 -
Yeah, since naming and shaming is not allowed. For the moment, PM mintsummer or submit a ticket.magiceffect wrote: »@chary feel free to contribute constructively. Your own ideas would be most welcome
Would we break TOS or forum rules if we create a thread for user reported fake bids?0
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