Fake TW Bidding Abounds on PWI
Comments
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FWIW, Max bid is 990 mil these days.sylenthunder said:
It used to be 200 mil. That may have changed though, it's been forever since I led a TW faction.
Considering that people will drop way more than 200m on one piece of gear, I can totally see a faction dropping that for a fake bid.0 -
Man this is happening on Twilight Temple too. Some fake **** factions called [SORRY NAMING IS NOT ALLOWED] are bidding on real faction [REALLY]. Enough with these fake bids!Post edited by sylenthunder on0
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I don't get the comment about not being able to ban the cash shoppers for fake bidding. Ban them for a week and let them know that if it happens again they will be Perma banned. I am pretty sure someone that has invested $5000+ in the game won't just stop playing, but I guarantee you they will not fake bid again. It's not hard to find out who is fake bidding based on IP records.0
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In the past, when fake bidding had been penalized, the leaders of both the alt fac and the main fac that was being helped would get temp bans. The leader of the main fac would get the ban whether he had a direct connection to the alt fac or not. An unscrupulous person could make a fake bid that "aides" his opponents fac, in the hopes that the enemy leader gets a ban.saxroll said:
How do you frame somebody when PWE keeps IP logs who logs what toons and when? Just because some faction is being bid on in suspicious manner doesnt mean staff would just ban them w/o investigating said logs. Well they might, this is PWE after all. I imagine it would be fairly easy to locate the real main of whoever is behind fake bids trough IP logs and following where the money came from. But obviously this is beyond our staff.
Knowing PWI's usual "ban first, ask questions never" methodology, well, you can figure out the rest.
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If a faction or group of factions are caught fake bidding then the factions should be disbanded. No exceptions.0
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It's happening on Twilight server also. So far several factions had bid themselves out of land locks and such to relocate, or to pay other smaller factions to bid on competing factions. The real problem is, tickets were submitted, and nothing was done to punish them, so they continue to do it. The only reply that we get are "we can not disclose the result of the investigation." They are also constantly forwarding our ticket to other gms, and by the time the person who is suppose to investigate it, can't do it - because that TW is already over, it it's too late to obtain facts and to monitor it.
To prevent faking bidding to protect your own land, I think they should make it so that a faction that owns a lot of land bidding for tw shouldn't be outbid by a faction that has no lands.
@jadasia I agree with you, even if they are caught, the consequence is just a week or two of temp ban. Some leaders even try to dodge the ban by passing the lead position to another member. Which means the can just bid again the next week.
We need a overhaul on rules and enforcement for TWs, it is currently the last thing most people play this game for, and the current neglect is making it worst.0 -
They'll just split into other factions and repeat, or make a new faction and repeat. Just like Nefarious became Vindicate (due to leadership, not any ban), or when Regi split up and just spread into the other big TW Factions at the time.If a faction or group of factions are caught fake bidding then the factions should be disbanded. No exceptions.
Actually, it's not too late. They simply do not have the manpower, knowledge, or desire. IP tracking and checking the logs is not that difficult. They just don't have the people. I'm making a guess on this based on the information I've been able to glean on the forums... I believe that they currently barely have one support person for each title.icycoffeebreaks wrote: »I can tell you this, it's not only happening on your server, but also on ours on Twilight server. So far several factions had bid themselves out of land locks and such to relocate, or to pay other smaller factions to bid on competing factions. The real problem is, tickets were submitted, and nothing was done to punish them, so they continue to do it. The only reply that we get are "we can not disclose the result of the investigation." They are also constantly forwarding our ticket to other gms, and by the time the person who is suppose to investigate it, can't do it - because that TW is already over, it it's too late to obtain facts and to monitor it.
So imagine you're this one college intern, who doesn't play the game, and the game supports several million players. Your training was a 2-hour session of going over how to work the ticketing system, and a day spent shadowing another intern. Now you have two hundred tickets sitting in your inbox that need to be worked on.
I'm not saying that that is exactly how the support team is, but based on the information at hand, that is certainly how it seems. (I'll probably get knocked on the head later for this post too, just FYI. :P )0 -
@sylenthunder
Don't they have the system to narrow down the tickets into groups? xD I mean, a program to locate key words, like a faction's name that is reported on 50% of the tickets.0 -
Most ticketing systems have that. Use of it is typically limited to management when they are tracking issues with the staff. Remember, we're still waiting on information from an email that was sent a few months ago about an issue that is now 6 months old here.icycoffeebreaks wrote: »@sylenthunder
Don't they have the system to narrow down the tickets into groups? xD I mean, a program to locate key words, like a faction's name that is reported on 50% of the tickets.0 -
OMG Sylen stop naming factions you can't do that here!sylenthunder said:
They'll just split into other factions and repeat, or make a new faction and repeat. Just like Nefarious became Vindicate (due to leadership, not any ban), or when Regi split up and just spread into the other big TW Factions at the time.
Also the next time you upgrade your PC you should probably get a sense of humor installed.
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naming is fine, naming and shaming isn't.They'll just split into other factions and repeat, or make a new faction and repeat. Just like Nefarious became Vindicate (due to leadership, not any ban), or when Regi split up and just spread into the other big TW Factions at the time.
OMG Sylen stop naming factions you can't do that here!
Also the next time you upgrade your PC you should probably get a sense of humor installed.
We're avoiding directly naming any offending factions. Also note, I do have a sense of humor. It's just a bit off sometimes. When I used "[REALLY]" I was being a bit silly. I tried a few other things first, but they left the naming part in so I couldn't leave it like that.
Keep in mind too, I've left this discussion open, even though it really walks a line on the rules of engagement here on the forums. I will continue to do so as long as we can keep the discussion open and civil. Once faction A starts bashing on Faction B, the thread will mysteriously disappear into a puff of smoke. Which reminds me... I was going to edit the title.0 -
I can confirm that a big faction at Etherblade (Archosaur, previously) is using fake bidding to prevent themselves of being attacked by real TW factions. This is disgusting, it's pretty evident their violation, yet PWE makes nothing to identify and punish this.
Simply, 6 out of 8 battles today were fake bidding. And of course, they will keep doing it if the TW rules not to be enforced.
Can we get @thenamesdomino to address this issue pls?
It's so annoying and ruins the whole purpose of TWing.0 -
I can also confirm that [NO NAMING] and [REALLY PLEASE] have been deliberately planning ganks against the faction. Rather than having an extremely fun TW against each other, they decide to hold ganks against a faction because of possible former personal issues. If you want to attack a faction then simply bid a higher amount to gank. It's also evident that [HARRY POTTER] played a role in asking [RON] to outbid [DUMBLEDORE] on their bid, and you see no one from there complaining from there. As said before, who's preventing what factions from attacking? If you want to gank a faction, bid a high amount. No one with a brain would bid a high amount of money just to prevent attacks, apparently the people accusing this faction of "preventing ganks" has no brain. Play the ban game and the leaders of all factions involved will end up getting banned, right Sami?Post edited by sylenthunder on0
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The fact that you're begging to get one faction banned, when you're violating ToS rules, assuming you're in one of the factions ganking, is ironic. I guess it's completely alright for factions to conspire ganks, but when the faction they're ganking does something suspicious, it HAS to result in them getting banned right? There has been absolutely no attempt to outbid any of the real factions that have already bidded, yet one of the factions that failed to bid high enough is accusing the other faction of outbidding real factions.killermystic said:I can confirm that a big faction at Etherblade (Archosaur, previously) is using fake bidding to prevent themselves of being attacked by real TW factions. This is disgusting, it's pretty evident their violation, yet PWE makes nothing to identify and punish this.
Simply, 6 out of 8 battles today were fake bidding. And of course, they will keep doing it if the TW rules not to be enforced.
Can we get @thenamesdomino to address this issue pls?
It's so annoying and ruins the whole purpose of TWing.
A faction can't prevent themselves being attacked by real factions unless they stupidly bid the max amount of coins. Sad to see one of the former most respected archosaur factions turn into a bunch of whining hypocritical people, whose leaders seem to be more focused on getting revenge than having fun and complaining when things don't go their way. Just like how they got a certain player banned and tried covering it up
Post edited by skadooosh10 on0 -
^This so much. One of Etherblade's biggest factions continues to do fake bid week after week it's disgusting and ruins the whole concept of TW. I really hope something is done about this.killermystic said:I can confirm that a big faction at Etherblade (Archosaur, previously) is using fake bidding to prevent themselves of being attacked by real TW factions. This is disgusting, it's pretty evident their violation, yet PWE makes nothing to identify and punish this.
Simply, 6 out of 8 battles today were fake bidding. And of course, they will keep doing it if the TW rules not to be enforced.
Can we get @thenamesdomino to address this issue pls?
It's so annoying and ruins the whole purpose of TWing.0 -
Nop, First of all what do you understand by "gank"? Defend multiple lands at same time? Show me in ToS where it is something prohibited or even frowned on. As far as I am concerned, this is part of the game, and has nothing wrong w it. As many land and power u show, more and more factions will get to combat it. If any multiple land faction plans on defending/attacking only 1 land simultaneously per week, don't be a multiple lands TW faction, plain and simple.skadooosh10 said:I can also confirm that [NO NAMING] and [REALLY PLEASE] have been deliberately planning ganks against the faction.
I don't know what u define as "extremely fun" TW, but fake bidding I am pretty sure isn't it. Plus, I don't know which personal issues you're talking about. I see no problem at multiple defense TW, again show me in ToS where I am wrong.skadooosh10 said:Rather than having an extremely fun TW against each other, they decide to hold ganks against a faction because of possible former personal issues.
Bla bla bla. Rumors, rumors, conspiracy! lol I don't know what's your point. My point is, fake bidding is against ToS, ruins TW competition, thus PWE needs to identify and punish the offenders accordingly.skadooosh10 said:If you want to attack a faction then simply bid a higher amount to gank. It's also evident that [HARRY POTTER] played a role in asking [RON] to outbid [DUMBLEDORE] on their bid, and you see no one from there complaining from there.
No one in his right mind state would max bid any land to just "gank" as you say. Fake bidding is an exploit, totally against TW rules. I see no point others guilds try to outbid the all-wrong fake bid anyway.skadooosh10 said:As said before, who's preventing what factions from attacking? If you want to gank a faction, bid a high amount. No one with a brain would bid a high amount of money just to prevent attacks, apparently the people accusing this faction of "preventing ganks" has no brain.
PWE is the only one who decides whatever punishment to these fake bids should take. If they ban someone, I must say, sorry but it's well deserved. Who the heck is Sami lol?skadooosh10 said:Play the ban game and the leaders of all factions involved will end up getting banned, right Sami?
You guys can see an fail attempted to justify a "gank" prevention by disobeying the TW rules. It's kinda, "I can do whatever I want to defend myself cuz I wanna be a top tier faction but I can't stand multiple TW defenses" LOL, right. Legit
Finally, as one side note, none of my chars participate in any of the top tier factions of Etherblade, also I am not defending any faction specifically, but I really felt the necessity of letting people know what's going on in Etherblade server cuz I find TW very important to the game, it's what make much of the player base still active and playing this game, so it's really really annoying see factions/people trying to destroy it by personal interest or whatever reason you find legit to circumvent TW rules.0 -
LOL..
Let me assure you that Defiance leadership does not care about "Lands", PERIOD.
If we did, we would happily gank Karma. YES! We are approached by factions on a weekly basis to gank Karma, and yes by factions I mean the factions that are currently ganking us. (Leave me a Forum PM if you want screenshots.)
This is not the first time we were ganked by other factions for refusing to gank Karma. I'm pretty sure some of you know about it already. But HEY!! Who cares? Let's blame Defiance anyway.
We actually look forward to these weekend ganks every week. You'd know if you were in the faction. But yea, feel free to assume otherwise.0 -
In an effort to eliminate fake bids how would people feel about a system where factions face off for the right to attack land?
In place of bids have a modest set attacking fee. If multiple groups want to attack the same piece of land they then fight each other for the right to attack the current holder. The easiest implementation would be to have the competing factions do tw matches against each other for the right to attack the current holder. It may be worth considering a shorter format match, however in practice I don't see situations where competing attackers go to 3 hours being very common (and I suspect it would be really rare).0 -
Lol, "ganking" is a perfectly legal and an intended mechanic in TW. Owning multiple lands gives more income which is balanced by greater vulnerability. Using shell factions to bid on yourself to prevent multiple defenses is a clear violation of stated TW rules. Stop being such pansies, and win or lose legitimately.skadooosh10 said:I can also confirm that [NO NAMING] and [REALLY PLEASE] have been deliberately planning ganks against the faction. Rather than having an extremely fun TW against each other, they decide to hold ganks against a faction because of possible former personal issues.
Thanks to this thread I feel much better about the situation on TT. The only fake bidding we've been having recently was from now 3rd tier facs paying people to attack their last land so they can relocate.
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*Sigh*. First of all, ganking isnt bannable offense, "recent" change where they increased cap for defenses per time slot in fact encourages ganking.skadooosh10 said:I can also confirm that [NO NAMING] and [REALLY PLEASE] have been deliberately planning ganks against the faction. Rather than having an extremely fun TW against each other, they decide to hold ganks against a faction because of possible former personal issues. If you want to attack a faction then simply bid a higher amount to gank. It's also evident that [HARRY POTTER] played a role in asking [RON] to outbid [DUMBLEDORE] on their bid, and you see no one from there complaining from there. As said before, who's preventing what factions from attacking? If you want to gank a faction, bid a high amount. No one with a brain would bid a high amount of money just to prevent attacks, apparently the people accusing this faction of "preventing ganks" has no brain. Play the ban game and the leaders of all factions involved will end up getting banned, right Sami?
2nd of all, there was major WC drama regarding the matter by members of your faction QQing bout what is now Harry Blopper fanfic.
3rd of all, I have nowhere advocated banning anybody. If you had spent half the fervor seeing my name creates in you simply reading my posts, you would know this. I have advocated simply not refunding fake bids, you can find reasons for it in my earlier posts if you care. I have said locating the real culprits to ban people in question wouldnt be difficult if the support knew what it was doing.
Ps. Diz please tell me, if you guys dont care bout lands, why fakebid in order to avoid TWs which would, if the bids were to succeed, cost you lands?
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did everyone install a totally different game than me.
all this talk about having to qualify for for bids or prioritize bidders by land.... that is not at all going to help the game.
sounds like none of you were playing in factions that used to own the map back in the day when it really was one faction vs the rest of the server. the few ppl making sense on this thread obviously are veterans, they understand why having to qualify to bid is just illogical. you also can just go back and start banning factions or disbanding them.... this is a business and the loss of major portions of cash players is never going to be okayed, whether or not the business is publicly traded or not.
there is not much wrong with the general rules for how TW works at this point in time, the issue is with ENFORCEMENT!! if the effort were put in to rethink and re-implement the needed checks and balances on the TW system, then TW would be more simple.
fake bidding occurs in the way it has been complained about due to NO ENFORCEMENT taking place. before all of this the only fake bidding going on was ppl using 3 person factions to earn coin in the early weeks of TW map, and to an extent for bigger factions to run a secondary faction to fight a separate opponent (though, because those jr factions often recruited lower geared ppl too, not much of a fuss was had over it compared to now)
simple things that can be done, as i've stated before include:
- increased documentation and logging
- stronger requirements to bid as a faction
- actually mediating glitches and exploits during TWs (seeker/bm glitch is very unfair)
in addition, there are aspects that PWE cant make changes to like player mentality. ppl complain about the state of the game but at least on sanctuary, once the factions who owned the whole map were actually defeated and the members disseminated to other factions, every got better. post-merge the power level was actually pretty diffuse for like a month, then power consolidated in one faction and things got one-sided again. things like ego and lack of satisfaction is certainly having its effect on the pvp scene and its only a matter of time before the power (top-tier geared/skilled players) spreads out a bit more (just my opinion here but i feel im seeing hints of it).
on the idea that faction leader can just pass lead after a ban, that makes no sense. when they ban the leader, it cant be logged to pass leadership. the leader-ban is more about banning the faction from attack tw's than penalizing the leader. ban the leader for a month and it WILL hurt that faction.
ganking is normal and more smaller factions should be going about bidding in a more opportunistic fashion. it presses the bigger factions and makes it more interesting even if its a loss, but the way things go the top tier factions are allying more and ganks are more strategic in regards to top tier than anything else. i dont see how the smaller factions really benefit much from it other than favors and some coin.0 -
Care to explain why a qualifier system would harmful rather than just saying it's illogical? If implemented I don't actually think it would be used all that frequently anyway. We wouldn't be the first game with a territory system to use that system and it seems functional elsewhere.dagoddominator said:did everyone install a totally different game than me.
all this talk about having to qualify for for bids or prioritize bidders by land.... that is not at all going to help the game.
sounds like none of you were playing in factions that used to own the map back in the day when it really was one faction vs the rest of the server. the few ppl making sense on this thread obviously are veterans, they understand why having to qualify to bid is just illogical. you also can just go back and start banning factions or disbanding them.... this is a business and the loss of major portions of cash players is never going to be okayed, whether or not the business is publicly traded or not.
there is not much wrong with the general rules for how TW works at this point in time, the issue is with ENFORCEMENT!! if the effort were put in to rethink and re-implement the needed checks and balances on the TW system, then TW would be more simple.
fake bidding occurs in the way it has been complained about due to NO ENFORCEMENT taking place. before all of this the only fake bidding going on was ppl using 3 person factions to earn coin in the early weeks of TW map, and to an extent for bigger factions to run a secondary faction to fight a separate opponent (though, because those jr factions often recruited lower geared ppl too, not much of a fuss was had over it compared to now)
simple things that can be done, as i've stated before include:
- increased documentation and logging
- stronger requirements to bid as a faction
- actually mediating glitches and exploits during TWs (seeker/bm glitch is very unfair)
in addition, there are aspects that PWE cant make changes to like player mentality. ppl complain about the state of the game but at least on sanctuary, once the factions who owned the whole map were actually defeated and the members disseminated to other factions, every got better. post-merge the power level was actually pretty diffuse for like a month, then power consolidated in one faction and things got one-sided again. things like ego and lack of satisfaction is certainly having its effect on the pvp scene and its only a matter of time before the power (top-tier geared/skilled players) spreads out a bit more (just my opinion here but i feel im seeing hints of it).
on the idea that faction leader can just pass lead after a ban, that makes no sense. when they ban the leader, it cant be logged to pass leadership. the leader-ban is more about banning the faction from attack tw's than penalizing the leader. ban the leader for a month and it WILL hurt that faction.
ganking is normal and more smaller factions should be going about bidding in a more opportunistic fashion. it presses the bigger factions and makes it more interesting even if its a loss, but the way things go the top tier factions are allying more and ganks are more strategic in regards to top tier than anything else. i dont see how the smaller factions really benefit much from it other than favors and some coin.0 -
Care to explain? From my experience, the most egregious fake bids are those from non landed factions who outbid legitimate opponents attempting to attack a target faction. Giving landed factions priority in bidding eliminates this. Non landed factions can still get back on the map, just not on lands bid on by landed factions.dagoddominator said:
all this talk about having to qualify for for bids or prioritize bidders by land.... that is not at all going to help the game.
sounds like none of you were playing in factions that used to own the map back in the day when it really was one faction vs the rest of the server. the few ppl making sense on this thread obviously are veterans, they understand why having to qualify to bid is just illogical.
What does one faction owning the map have anything to do with this? With limited TW seasons, that's not even possible anymore.
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because non-landed factions should not have barriers to enter combat. i already provide more than enough of an alternative to what ya'll proposed that would address the actual problem without potentially harming smaller faction's ability to participate in TW. icing out obvious factions that do not have the ability to present an actual attempt to fight (regardless of their chance to win) is what we need, not making so a small faction can't seize an opportunity to steal a land for a week or 2.
7-way defenses can be healthy when one faction is getting too strong.
well, if you ever played when one faction owned the map, you would know. from what i know, the oppostion used to be tough and max defenses were a trend at a point. then power consolidates into a force capable of threatening and overpowering. attrition also plays a role.
giving land-owning factions priority for bidding is unfair, and leads to factions pursuing smaller factions and taking their lands to limit that privilege.0 -
Smaller factions that are legitimately trying for land would be largely unaffected by giving priority to landed factions. In a multi defense situation, it's the weaker factions that are almost assuredly beaten back. One only goes after the biggest threat if all other defenses are secured. Your idea that the small fry would be unduly penalized is unfounded. It's not like they couldn't choose to bid on a land that wouldn't also be the likely target of the landed opponent.0
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They'll just split into other factions and repeat, or make a new faction and repeat. Just like Nefarious became Vindicate (due to leadership, not any ban), or when Regi split up and just spread into the other big TW Factions at the time.sylenthunder said:
Yet they lost their base, any lands they had, etc. Can get expensive. Eventually individuals in factions which repeatedly get disbanded will gain a bad reputation. They'd be branded as cheats. Would your faction want people who were involved in getting their previous factions disbanded?0 -
then what about a restriction like lvl1 faction can attack only lvl1 faction
lvl2 faction can attack lvl1 and lvl2
lvl3 attack lvl1 lvl2 and lvl3 faction?
you think guys should work?0 -
Not really since it takes about 5 minutes and 12m to make a level 3 faction.then what about a restriction like lvl1 faction can attack only lvl1 faction
lvl2 faction can attack lvl1 and lvl2
lvl3 attack lvl1 lvl2 and lvl3 faction?
you think guys should work?0 -
you know this whole thread takes on a whole new meaning when every time you read bidder as bladder 
*has nothing constructive to add, goes back to adding humour in other threads, capn made me do it*0
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