Balancing Duskblades

oh man i missed this thread over the weekend. *eats popcorn*

patrickhuong said:

eirghan said:

oh man i missed this thread over the weekend. *eats popcorn*

there point your finger at the right person...i already pointed it out for you

PS: i have a question for you Mr. iamOP....i met a sin who has R8 armor, G15 leg, TT99 shoes and TT99 bracers, etc... you know sin aps gears all the gears that he could possibly get to maximize aps....he +12 all his gears and deity all of them (with 4 sockets of course).....do you consider he is end-game?

I think you're responding to the wrong person... 404 Not Found. Please check the forum name of the person who has talked about what kind of gear you have and try again.

patrickhuong said:

I don't care what you said....you are the person who started this whole archer talk...it is solid fact (check some posts above this and see)
I QQ? when did i do that? did you see i vote for anything...i even said DB is easy to kill at close range....i think you are the one that has the biggest QQ here.....
spend time for my gears....yes i will thanks for your concern but i still have time to shut a loud mouth
like i said....if you don't have cards and refine you are not OP but definitely end-game since you are almost a god in PVE.....
BTW i think you need to update your requirement for "end-game" because Candel flame set is not the most OP A card set the most OP A card set is warsong set which included an S-card in it...
if you checked my gears you would know my card set equal and a bit better than non-reawaken candle flame set (I have 2 S-cards that fill in the 2 missing slots of SOT set) (getting a candle flame set is already hard...i am talking about getting 2 to beat my card set....good luck with that)
if you don't believe me go check my gears again and compare

PS: i truly have no interest in your toon's name.....BTW you better be +12 and JOSDs and candle flame set....or you are truly a loud mouth

PS: i ran JFSP with another squad yesterday....they had no DB but a couple more sins and a BM.....they were able to kill succubus within her first shout....so i thought they would have equal strength to the squad that had DB i ran with.
However, they needed 3 yellow aura to kill mushi with BMs HF whenever he was able to....the fight was nothing close to the fight when that DB was there....and remember that DB squad has no BM.... that DB definitely didn't have the finishing up job like someone had claimed......
If YOU don't know how to do it with your DB...this show your inability as a DB......

This is hilarious. On a scale of 1 to 10, how mad are you?

I have nowhere claimed I was endgame player, you keep trying to assert this statement to me, which is getting kinda boring tbh. I have only claimed you are not one, least on the standards of the general population on these forums.

I dont know what Candel flame set is, I have to assume you mean CF(Candleflame) set. I dont understand what saying CF is enough to be considered endgame and it not being the best A set has to do with anything? People generally ignore WS as pulling Incarnate is ridiculously expensive unless you get really lucky with some free packs/chests.

I dont understand why I should gear check unimportant players? I dont TW against your faction, I close enough faceroll you in NW and you dont PK. What advantage would knowing your exact gear give to me? Its really just waste of time, not to mention its idiotic to compare awakened sets to non awakened ones. If you have CF set, you are bound to have duplicates. I personally got least 1 duplicate on every card of the CF set I own.

I dont understand what you are trying to argue with the DB "soloing" Mushi. You can see what I voted for, in lack of better option, I am quite aware of the damage output DBs have. 3 sins + BM level of damage? No. But I guess I know nothing bout DB class if I cant solo Mushi on my baby alt. The logic is strong in this one.

Ps. As for the sin, you cant have deities on aps gear `cept for pants/helm iirc. But no, I wouldnt call them endgame player because aps gear is absolutely outdated for any PvP activity.

I would like to comment on this actual poll. As far as duskblades go, i am still too noob at fighting them to make a call on whether or not they need a nerf, and if so, what kind. I do know that adding a feature that purifies paralyze, whether pot, genie or whatever, is a terrible idea. Now, in an effort to balance a single class (whose paralyze is actually quite short) you are unbalancing game play against several other classes. Not to mention, realistically paralyze is a small portion of the problem (if there is one).

If their locking techniques are too complete (think how the sin after primals lose a few seconds of stun) it is possible to draw it down slightly without losing the focus of the class, which is most definitely their lock.

But a counter to paralyze, no. Thats a whole new box of worms.

I'm recently returned to game, and I've since fought, as a cleric, a number of duskblades. Here's what I've noticed.

-nearly every possible cc effect in the game, including some unique to their class. none seem to use much chi. these include:
1) ranged tele stun on low cd with 30m range
2) ranged tele paralyze on low cd with 30m range
3) various other paralyze & stun
4) sleep
5) seal of god
6) debuff that stuns you after 8 seconds, for about 7 seconds. not purifiable (wtf)
7) yank---never seen it fail yet, is it 100% ?
8) an immobilize of some sort
9) weird dot that does a hit after a number of seconds
10) hf---not sure what % dmg amplification it does
11) weird debuff that I don't know what it does, somebody mentioned increasing skill cd?
-many many hits per second = defense charms have little use
-ability to have near gapless stun locks extending up to 30 seconds
-stealth--for a short time, it seems
-weird 'you can see them but can't do anything to them' skill
-some sort of morph skill that vastly increases their dmg for a short period, i suspect this is chi-heavy
-anti stun skill for group with (it appears to be) holy path speed.
-good dmg even just spamming cc skills---but insane dmg when morph/hf debuff are applied
-self buffs that make ranged auto attacks very low, poor archers, and another that reduces dmg of crits

I'm unsure as to whether duskblades have any aoes.

Yeah. And this list is probably incomplete.

I observe that good duskblades (though I don't think it takes a terribly high amount of skill to make a long cc chain when you have so many options) simply pull together a long-**** cc lock---I've observed well over 30 seconds---and wait for you to use genie skills, because you'll simply have to, their dmg without doing anything particularly special is already VERY good. Then, once they've observed that you've blown your genie, they do some of their morphing/hf stuff, more cc, bam, you are dead. Its a simple, nearly unblockable rinse and repeat cycle that works for every class except for assassins (who will avoid some cc) and psychics (who will seal the duskblade a lot). Against other duskblades, I suppose it goes either way.

I just have this to say.

Do duskblades really need so much cc? I *get* that they are supposed to have a lot. But they have more than just 'a lot'. They have nearly every CC effect, save for seal. These cc have low chi cost, and low cds, making them spammable.

To me, the answer to making duskblade a more intelligent class is one of 3 things.

(1) --- reduce the # of cc options they have available. A good duskblade should be able to handle a bit of counter play. Currently, they rarely need to, since the proper combination of their skills leaves no openings, putting even an assassin's stun lock to shame.

OR

(2) --- vastly increase the chi cost and/or cooldown of certain skills that make the cc lock so repeatable.

OR

(3) --- increase 'chance' for most or all of their cc skills. For example, instead of having 'tele paralyze---paralyzes the target for 3 seconds' you would have 'tele paralyze---50% chance to paralyze target for 3s'. (make sage effect 4s, and demon effect be like 70% chance, or something). This would make the duskblade have to react intelligently to whether his skills work or not, and change his plans on the fly, instead of this infinite, pre-planned sequence of skills that doesn't need to be changed cuz it almost always works.

Currently, duskblades are gods in 1vs1 pvp, small scale pvp, and as dps for bosses they are very very good. Only in TW do I think they have a weakness. Is a bit of weakness in TW enough to justify having their class be *so* good everywhere else? I'm of the opinion that the answer to that is 'not really'.

Essentially, to make duskblades have to play more intelligently, and not be quite *so* broken, other classes NEED the chance to have more openings, more often. When a class can stun lock you for 20-30 seconds without ANY gaps, you have no room for counter play---making a fight against duskblade extremely reliant on your genie. To create the balance necessary, I'd say that it should be difficult for a duskblade to have a cc lock that extends past 10 seconds---there must be gaps for others to counter with, otherwise there is no chance.

@tictic99999 off topic request, how did you make a poll in your original post? Is there an option like before, or did you use codes for it? Any idea where i can find out how to create polls in the new forums?​​

In a 1v1 with a good geared duskblade I observe a one minutes silence for my archers soul, rest in pieces.

We can just hijack since this is a necro anyway and ask @asterelle here about warsouls

But im pretty sure there is a third reroll in china. I cant remember where i heard/saw that. I think maybe pw database had some change on them when they came out with r8rr, an additional set of attack levels or something.

I dont know anything about them getting as op as this g17 stuff though, that stuff is a game changer.

aaand ....

/Closed​​