Balancing Duskblades

tictic99999

1st, if this is ever forward to devs they need to for once in their damn lives look at this in the context of our game version, not theirs. We have different gear and weapons and many other different things. Not the same game. What might be weak or average in their version may be op in ours.
6 ways to go about this and its rather simple:
1. Nurf their damage, all said they hit much harder than they should for the style they play
2. Nurf the speed they cast stuff. They hit 2-3x faster than every other class spamming skills
3. Less paralyze, this is the reason they are broken. Currently they can cc a single target indefinitely.... how is that fair.
4. Make counter play, i.e. anti-paralyze genie skill. (TBH we should already have this, every other move in the game has a genie counter, faith does not count cause doesn't remove it. We even have a genie move called remove paraylsis which does not do as it says)
5. Anti-paralyze pot, same way there is an anti stun pot.
6. make paralyze purifyable like every other debuff in the game
Which one do you think would be the most fair way to balance? Don't say none, if you say that you clearly know nothing about this topic and should refrain from looking stupid.

tictic99999

genie anti-paralyze

save space for updates.​​

asurin

None. While I have played the class, I don't think they need to be nerfed on speed or attack. They are literally a balance between assassin and blade master. And with the rapier technique *yes, that is the fighting style that is being used for the Duskblades* it makes sense that they can paralyze, or stun, the opponent quickly. They are not a single handed heavy sword master like the Blademaster, they are light sword, single handed.

skyurr

none of them as there is no need​​

afaria86

Another sin qq thread but about dusks... oh well...

iconique

While a genie skill counter sounds really appealing, and to add on what @asurin posted concerning the style, Duskblades are designed to specialize in speed and disarming.​​

astralwalk

Faith works because you have to react quickly to prevent yourself from being CC'ed. Or even something like AD or sutra orb could save you. just like if that duskblade doesnt CC quickly he's probably in for a world of hurt and you using your own CC on him. try to imagine how dueling works.

So my answer: None.

jabq

"6. make paralyze purifyable like every other debuff in the game"

You do understand what you are asking here right? Are you 100% sure this statement you wrote?

Let's roll back in time, r9 3rd cast came out, there was no paralyze, do you remember how pvp was like?

Now read your statement again.

Now think back to those times.

Do you really want to go back there?

If the answer is yes, awesome.

If the answer is no, remove number 6.

If the answer is anything other than those two answers for what ever reason, remove the post. All classes get nerfed over time, some more than others. Just wait a few more content updates for that to happen.​​

chary

make paralyze purifyable

Shall I elaborate? Make paralyze purifiable by every means that isn't purify proc. Is that okay, brah.​​

patrickhuong

LOL....it's super irony for DB....their weakness is close range (yes, close range you read it right)....same as archer (demon though sage archer is meelee class....).....i test this on a RRR9 DB.....i hit him 2-3k normal range.....then i run to him and use wingstrike spam......surprisingly the damge shoot up to 6-7k.....even 8-9k lol.....
they are super weak if you attack them from close range since all their passive skills are for range attack (blahh PWCN and devs hate archers, but meh i am a meelee archer now).....and that's why they need all those CC skills or they are just meat on table lol.....
but I noticed they can deal big damge on me....god 21k...with 33k physical def and 1080 spirit and 50 deff LVs....pretty high though

i wish my WOG can prevent paralyze......DB should not be a problem for me

aphrodita

the people that are saying "there is no need" are either duskblade mains or players that havent fought an endgame dusk yet.

ellany

a big NONE

keihan007#7641

damage nurf

The problem isnt really paralyses, its the amount of CC and how cheap said CC is. In order to balance DBs they would have to rework their CC skills with a hard nerf on them. Not to mention range dmg nerf is ludicrously strong. I also got Nighstalker skill on my alt and the dmg output is just absurd. But its never gonna happen, least not because something is said on these forums.​​

zoner112012

skill speed nurf

I will be the devil's advocate here and say they need some skill casting nerf. They are pretty much insta cast on most of their stuns and paralyzes. BMs were the main CC class and still mostly are but now DBs are a pain with it 1v1 especially. The other thing I think they need (and this will appeal to archers that QQ a lot) is defense nerf of some kind. They are a dex class with freaking passives that make them stronger the further away they are from you, essentially **** over all ranged classes especially archers.

jsxshadow

genie anti-paralyze

Change Fortify to block paralyze aswell and make Paralyze unoverwriteable like Stun. Problem solved. Everyone happy. Easy. Will never happen tho. Sad.

opalhs

few or many of the above, if so please specify which ones

There should not be anti paralyze skill or pot.Paralyze was answer to op purify spell that casters have,before primal skills casters owned both in 1v1 or massive fights against ha clases.But yea no one should have that much paralyze or stun skills.

limonazza

make paralyze purifyable

change remove paralyze genie skill to actually remove paralyze or simply make it purifiable,
some classes paralyze locks are way meta-breaking

chanebola

damage nurf

jabq said:

"6. make paralyze purifyable like every other debuff in the game"



You do understand what you are asking here right? Are you 100% sure this statement you wrote?



Let's roll back in time, r9 3rd cast came out, there was no paralyze, do you remember how pvp was like?



Now read your statement again.



Now think back to those times.



Do you really want to go back there?



If the answer is yes, awesome.



If the answer is no, remove number 6.



If the answer is anything other than those two answers for what ever reason, remove the post. All classes get nerfed over time, some more than others. Just wait a few more content updates for that to happen.​​

limonazza

make paralyze purifyable

chanebola said:

jabq said:

"6. make paralyze purifyable like every other debuff in the game"



You do understand what you are asking here right? Are you 100% sure this statement you wrote?



Let's roll back in time, r9 3rd cast came out, there was no paralyze, do you remember how pvp was like?



Now read your statement again.



Now think back to those times.



Do you really want to go back there?



If the answer is yes, awesome.



If the answer is no, remove number 6.



If the answer is anything other than those two answers for what ever reason, remove the post. All classes get nerfed over time, some more than others. Just wait a few more content updates for that to happen.​​

because how is pvp currently like? 2 classes that can spam paralyze and wreck any other class except for assassins? that by the way have the best DPH and DPS? is that better than a non-paralyze scenario? i doubt so

is it balanced that let's say you are in TW you get reeled in with paralyze to follow from a flyer, while you are on the ground, therefore you are unable to take any action cause you cannot counter that kind of CC? You know how much is this currently abused?

if paralyze has not to be purified, it should at least ignore tidal protection as per charm debuff passive

and the option to trade off genie energy to cleanse it isnt really viable, some classes can spam paralyze in a way that such a feature would be a waste of genie energy

chanebola

damage nurf

limonazza said:

because how is pvp currently like? 2 classes that can spam paralyze and wreck any other class except for assassins? that by the way have the best DPH and DPS? is that better than a non-paralyze scenario? i doubt so

is it balanced that let's say you are in TW you get reeled in with paralyze to follow from a flyer, while you are on the ground, therefore you are unable to take any action cause you cannot counter that kind of CC? You know how much is this currently abused?

if paralyze has not to be purified, it should at least ignore tidal protection as per charm debuff passive

and the option to trade off genie energy to cleanse it isnt really viable, some classes can spam paralyze in a way that such a feature would be a waste of genie energy

Like being immue to stuns and immobilize isn't enough for arcane r9's. They need immue to dmg also

asurin

aphrodita said:

the people that are saying "there is no need" are either duskblade mains or players that havent fought an endgame dusk yet.

My MAIN is a veno. I said that I've played with and even fought a duskblade via dual. It's not any real difference then those who are sins. The only nerf they needed was aps, and it happened. Everything else about the sin was whinned about still needing a nerf, and that never happened.

Duskblades won't be nerfed. Unlike sins, they don't rely on aps. If anything will happen to make them "balanced" it would be a genie skill. I doubt one will come up regardless.

spaz95

pot anti-paralyze

My main is a Nv3 (G16) Duskblade and they are not a over powered class. The only class that cannot beat them in a 1v1 is a Cleric due to no anti stun of sorts.

Duskblade isnt tanky, you use a faith genie things can get pretty hairy for them. People of PWI dont know how to fight them coz they are not like any other class.

Blademasters are the bane of Duskblades anyway and Wizards are very hard to kill to thanks to a huge part of the stun lock used is a disarm. Learn the class your fighting to find its weaknesses. Yes i can tank r9rr +10 archers, wizards and seekers but thats because of our passives and most are to stupid to figure out what makes us die.


Its like sins. How to kill them? Kite tidal then go in for the kill once its gone. Every class has its weakness Duskblades are not unstoppable. People just fail to see the correct tactics against them. They are a squishy class is some situations.

patrickhuong

spaz95 said:

My main is a Nv3 (G16) Duskblade and they are not a over powered class. The only class that cannot beat them in a 1v1 is a Cleric due to no anti stun of sorts.

Duskblade isnt tanky, you use a faith genie things can get pretty hairy for them. People of PWI dont know how to fight them coz they are not like any other class.

Blademasters are the bane of Duskblades anyway and Wizards are very hard to kill to thanks to a huge part of the stun lock used is a disarm. Learn the class your fighting to find its weaknesses. Yes i can tank r9rr +10 archers, wizards and seekers but thats because of our passives and most are to stupid to figure out what makes us die.


Its like sins. How to kill them? Kite tidal then go in for the kill once its gone. Every class has its weakness Duskblades are not unstoppable. People just fail to see the correct tactics against them. They are a squishy class is some situations.

think it just said it in my post....the weakness is close range....

keihan007#7641

damage nurf

spaz95 wrote: »

My main is a Nv3 (G16) Duskblade and they are not a over powered class. The only class that cannot beat them in a 1v1 is a Cleric due to no anti stun of sorts.

Duskblade isnt tanky, you use a faith genie things can get pretty hairy for them. People of PWI dont know how to fight them coz they are not like any other class.

Blademasters are the bane of Duskblades anyway and Wizards are very hard to kill to thanks to a huge part of the stun lock used is a disarm. Learn the class your fighting to find its weaknesses. Yes i can tank r9rr +10 archers, wizards and seekers but thats because of our passives and most are to stupid to figure out what makes us die.


Its like sins. How to kill them? Kite tidal then go in for the kill once its gone. Every class has its weakness Duskblades are not unstoppable. People just fail to see the correct tactics against them. They are a squishy class is some situations.

Lel. N3 DB telling how DBs arent OP. I hit N3 DBs, if range is over 8m, for 3k crits and my physical range is 50k+ at high end. That alone is absolutely broken, archer cant beat evenly matched DB, it cant be done, period. Well sure, I have **** close enough as geared DBs as me in 1vs1 but those DBs were just god horrible at their class.

If DB loses 1vs1 on somewhat even gear to anything but sin or BM, maybe barb(?) they are complete trash. Losing any other matchup should be impossible to any remotely decent DB, discounting DB vs DB matchup.

DBs only weakness is being somewhat "squishy" at melee fights. This still puts them at major advantage against any ranged classes for simply being absolutely unkillable outside of melee range, which forces ranged classes to stay in melee range of DB if they ever intend to kill it. And DBs have the deadliest CC kit, they can permalock you with lot of paralyses, which you cant really genie your way out of. Well you can time faith right before incoming para but that is pretty darn hard against evenly skilled player. After this though? DB will just lock you knowing you have no genie left and **** you, lel. So unless you can kill DB in 4s window, which btw cant be done in even matchup, you are done for. You could chain IG but DB can easily match that IG with their own apoth.​​

limonazza

make paralyze purifyable

chanebola said:

limonazza said:

because how is pvp currently like? 2 classes that can spam paralyze and wreck any other class except for assassins? that by the way have the best DPH and DPS? is that better than a non-paralyze scenario? i doubt so

is it balanced that let's say you are in TW you get reeled in with paralyze to follow from a flyer, while you are on the ground, therefore you are unable to take any action cause you cannot counter that kind of CC? You know how much is this currently abused?

if paralyze has not to be purified, it should at least ignore tidal protection as per charm debuff passive

and the option to trade off genie energy to cleanse it isnt really viable, some classes can spam paralyze in a way that such a feature would be a waste of genie energy

Like being immue to stuns and immobilize isn't enough for arcane r9's. They need immue to dmg also

rofl puri proc is 8% chance kinda far from the "immune" thing you talking about, and we arent talkin bout damage, cause any non zerkcrit class lacks damage at endgame, we are talking about how a CC that cant be prevented either cleansed it's just broken and game breaking... even more if dusks and barbs can spam it, let's add that both of those classes have DPS and zerkcrits aswell... and the only other class immune to that is another zerkcrit class (assassin)

game seems quite balanced for non-paralyze non-zerkcrit classes isnt it?

tictic99999

genie anti-paralyze

I'd have no complaints if they did not have a zerk weapon, they wouldn't have insane damage then. I also wouldn't complain if paralyze worked like every other damn debuff in that you can't overwrite it. I also wouldn't complain if their damage reduction was severely nerfed. Right now they have the best of every world. They hit harder than any other class both dph and dps, tankier than a bm, and skill faster than sins and stormbringers. It reminds me of release sins. O how broken that cr.ap was.... 7 aps... lol.
I wonder if the gms even playtest any of this stuff with endgame gear. I wonder even more if they will even bother to acknowledge the existence of this thread and the problem that has been posed.​​

patrickhuong

tictic99999 said:

I'd have no complaints if they did not have a zerk weapon, they wouldn't have insane damage then. I also wouldn't complain if paralyze worked like every other damn debuff in that you can't overwrite it. I also wouldn't complain if their damage reduction was severely nerfed. Right now they have the best of every world. They hit harder than any other class both dph and dps, tankier than a bm, and skill faster than sins and stormbringers. It reminds me of release sins. O how broken that cr.ap was.... 7 aps... lol.

I wonder if the gms even playtest any of this stuff with endgame gear. I wonder even more if they will even bother to acknowledge the existence of this thread and the problem that has been posed.​​

the answer is no....
the one who can fix this is PWCN devs who...still think DB is fine
the chinese people react the same as us...yet nothing is gonna change from PWCN

BTW in PWCN they suggest you run away from a DB if you are not with someone because YOU WILL BE STUN/PARALYZE to dead and charm ****.......anyway if you PK, bring someone with you in case you are PKing with DBs

PS: get close to them.....they are pretty weak at close range i manage to deal 9k-10k on a RRR9 DB and kill him (of course when he is busy locking someone.....or else i would die lol)

spaz95

pot anti-paralyze

saxroll said:

spaz95 wrote: »

Lel. N3 DB telling how DBs arent OP. I hit N3 DBs, if range is over 8m, for 3k crits and my physical range is 50k+ at high end. That alone is absolutely broken, archer cant beat evenly matched DB, it cant be done, period. Well sure, I have **** close enough as geared DBs as me in 1vs1 but those DBs were just god horrible at their class.



If DB loses 1vs1 on somewhat even gear to anything but sin or BM, maybe barb(?) they are complete trash. Losing any other matchup should be impossible to any remotely decent DB, discounting DB vs DB matchup.



DBs only weakness is being somewhat "squishy" at melee fights. This still puts them at major advantage against any ranged classes for simply being absolutely unkillable outside of melee range, which forces ranged classes to stay in melee range of DB if they ever intend to kill it. And DBs have the deadliest CC kit, they can permalock you with lot of paralyses, which you cant really genie your way out of. Well you can time faith right before incoming para but that is pretty darn hard against evenly skilled player. After this though? DB will just lock you knowing you have no genie left and **** you, lel. So unless you can kill DB in 4s window, which btw cant be done in even matchup, you are done for. You could chain IG but DB can easily match that IG with their own apoth.​​

Psychics are hard to kill too as a DB thanks to soul of silence and Dragon Trap doing 5 hits in quick succession. I have had Archers with same gear as me that i couldnt beat. Granted they couldnt beat me but they used their skills, charms and pots well. Yes a r9rr archer vs r9rr Duskblade it is very one sided but i have seen Archers win.

Barbs cant really beat Duskies coz of the CC Duskies have. Also the debuff that can increase cool downs by 1min on skills destroys what little stunlock barbs already have. But I do think the game needs a anti paralyse pot. Be useful but even then against duskblades it wont be a threat coz we can just poof into a shadow then kill after.

BESIDES Archers are NOT a 1v1 class. They are a group PvP, DD support class. That is their roll in PvP. So what you should be doing is use BV on a Duskie and get someone to support you. Duskblades are built for 1v1 PvP but are not the best in group PvP like a Stormbringer is. Besides wanna get good at PvP? fight the classes you have the biggest disadvantage to if they have the same gear. There are ways for all classes to kill others.

They are a Anti-Archer class yes, but you guys are Anti magic class. Dont forget the classes Archers can **** on.

patrickhuong

spaz95 said:

saxroll said:

spaz95 wrote: »

Lel. N3 DB telling how DBs arent OP. I hit N3 DBs, if range is over 8m, for 3k crits and my physical range is 50k+ at high end. That alone is absolutely broken, archer cant beat evenly matched DB, it cant be done, period. Well sure, I have **** close enough as geared DBs as me in 1vs1 but those DBs were just god horrible at their class.



If DB loses 1vs1 on somewhat even gear to anything but sin or BM, maybe barb(?) they are complete trash. Losing any other matchup should be impossible to any remotely decent DB, discounting DB vs DB matchup.



DBs only weakness is being somewhat "squishy" at melee fights. This still puts them at major advantage against any ranged classes for simply being absolutely unkillable outside of melee range, which forces ranged classes to stay in melee range of DB if they ever intend to kill it. And DBs have the deadliest CC kit, they can permalock you with lot of paralyses, which you cant really genie your way out of. Well you can time faith right before incoming para but that is pretty darn hard against evenly skilled player. After this though? DB will just lock you knowing you have no genie left and **** you, lel. So unless you can kill DB in 4s window, which btw cant be done in even matchup, you are done for. You could chain IG but DB can easily match that IG with their own apoth.​​

Psychics are hard to kill too as a DB thanks to soul of silence and Dragon Trap doing 5 hits in quick succession. I have had Archers with same gear as me that i couldnt beat. Granted they couldnt beat me but they used their skills, charms and pots well. Yes a r9rr archer vs r9rr Duskblade it is very one sided but i have seen Archers win.

Barbs cant really beat Duskies coz of the CC Duskies have. Also the debuff that can increase cool downs by 1min on skills destroys what little stunlock barbs already have. But I do think the game needs a anti paralyse pot. Be useful but even then against duskblades it wont be a threat coz we can just poof into a shadow then kill after.

BESIDES Archers are NOT a 1v1 class. They are a group PvP, DD support class. That is their roll in PvP. So what you should be doing is use BV on a Duskie and get someone to support you. Duskblades are built for 1v1 PvP but are not the best in group PvP like a Stormbringer is. Besides wanna get good at PvP? fight the classes you have the biggest disadvantage to if they have the same gear. There are ways for all classes to kill others.

They are a Anti-Archer class yes, but you guys are Anti magic class. Dont forget the classes Archers can **** on.

play an archer recently?
god...i hate anyone saying archer is a support class......one last time, ARCHER is not a freaking support class for godsake, if we are suport class...where are our support skills? (like cleric heal or mystic heal) even cleric is not a support class lol
group PVP? how are we good at group PVP? can you tell me how to play my own class, thanks in advange....
if that DB got killed 1 VS 1 an archer......that person needs to learn how to play an DB IJS
archer is anti-magic class.....you have really high sense of humor.....that purify spell on their weap plus ton of defense skills plus primal passive increase deff plus decrease crit damge......an equal gear AA classes (especially cleric and psy and SB) will never get killed by an archer if they know what they are doing.....
if you don't have an end-game archer (i.e. RRR9) and don't play them less than a month, please don't speak like an expert

PS: i found sage archer is fun to play lol they are meelee class.....

spaz95

pot anti-paralyze

saxroll said:

spaz95 wrote: »

play an archer recently?
god...i hate anyone saying archer is a support class......one last time, ARCHER is not a freaking support class for godsake, if we are suport class...where are our support skills? (like cleric heal or mystic heal) even cleric is not a support class lol
group PVP? how are we good at group PVP? can you tell me how to play my own class, thanks in advange....
if that DB got killed 1 VS 1 an archer......that person needs to learn how to play an DB IJS
archer is anti-magic class.....you have really high sense of humor.....that purify spell on their weap plus ton of defense skills plus primal passive increase deff plus decrease crit damge......an equal gear AA classes (especially cleric and psy and SB) will never get killed by an archer if they know what they are doing.....
if you don't have an end-game archer (i.e. RRR9) and don't play them less than a month, please don't speak like an expert

PS: i found sage archer is fun to play lol they are meelee class.....

Just because a class doesnt have healing skills does not make it a pure offensive class. As a DB in Nation wars i generally play a support roll to my team. What does that mean? I stun lock the **** out of the r9rr+12 players who i stand no chance against while tanking all the ranged damage from ranged classes. I let my team kill the heavy players by me permi locking/disarming them THAT IS CALLED SUPPORT.

An Archer was an offensive class back when sins were the only new race and before then. Since then they have become obsolete in a pure attacking force. Now they are great for support and ranged combat. Your purge on the bow makes you a support class more than before. Just coz you use physical attacks it doesnt mean your not support... When new updates come sometimes a class is put in a different category.

Evolution of PWI.

patrickhuong

just because a class doesnt have healing skills does not make it a pure offensive class. As a DB in Nation wars i generally play a support roll to my team. What does that mean? I stun lock the **** out of the r9rr+12 players who i stand no chance against while tanking all the ranged damage from ranged classes. I let my team kill the heavy players by me permi locking/disarming them THAT IS CALLED SUPPORT.

An Archer was an offensive class back when sins were the only new race and before then. Since then they have become obsolete in a pure attacking force. Now they are great for support and ranged combat. Your purge on the bow makes you a support class more than before. Just coz you use physical attacks it doesnt mean your not support... When new updates come sometimes a class is put in a different category.

Evolution of PWI.

healing skill is just an example to be qualified as support class....like cleric have SOG, long sleep, shield skills, etc to ensure their survival due to "lack of offense skills" (which is not a thing now...hurray for cyclone spamming)
LOL you play support role for your team because you have **** gears....if you have RRR9+12 yourself....support role anymore Mr. iknowallaboutarcher? and don't tell me a RRR9 DB has "support" role in a team...a RRR9 DB can deal 21k to my RRR9 archer who has 33k physical def, 1080 spirit, and 50 deff LVs....yeah DB is really "supporting"..... while a poor RRR9+12 archer still has a "support" role according to your theory....do you think it's fair?

your second paragraph just simply means PWI has downgraded archer from a normal class to a non-playable "support" class....BTW only RRR9 bow has a so-called "purge" (G15 doesn't count since it doesn't come with -int)....that means you need to be RRR9 to play this "support" class....no thanks i rather RRR9 another class.
lastly....if i use physical attack on someone while other people are also attacking that person....it's called gank not support.....
when new update comes archer is pushed deeper in the trash can thank you very much

like i said if you don't have a RRR9 archer and don't really play an archer, please do not speak like you know everything about archer.....Mr. iknowallaboutarcher.