Balancing Duskblades

patrickhuong · September 2015

jsxshadow said:

patrickhuong said:

Sure, not a problem. I already have one, altho I'm not playing the archer, I am playing the barb. This Archer was doing a great job altho ofc I was a bit unlucky with procs. Still, very well played:

Barb vs Archer Starting at 13:58. PS. This is showing PServer footage so be warned.

And ofc this game is easy as shet which makes it even sadder that some people just can't play it right. It isnt too much to ask to built a specified genie for every class. If ya cant even do that...well it's your own fault.
hmm is that a R9 weap you are holding? can you show that archer gears?
a R9 barb can almost killed a RRR9 archer....what's the point that you tried to prove here Mr. iampro?
i can kill barbs too....but that barb is just a lot under-geared compared to mine......
I notice in the video you have 2 G16 necks.....and unfortunately you are equipping the physical deff one during the archer fight (why? i don't know only you know)....second like i said above you are holding a R9 weap which means that you might be R9 not RRR9 and that archer might be RRR9....
specific genie for every class? what's the point? for PK 1 VS 1 at west archo?
what about NW and TW? i heard you can't swap genie during battle or if you are in battle state....I might be wrong though......

Uh, I fought many sins before that fight and simply forgot to switch the neck. The gears have been absolutely equal, the archer being full deity and me being 16 deity/8 jades, rest is max r9rr +12 with CoM and WoA Set, Full nuema Portal 2nd rb. As I said, its footage from a pserver. Everything is absolutely equal and identical to our version of PW cept that its the version pre-Nightshades.

Ofc you use dif genies for 1on1 only but depending on which people you fight (as you dotn always fight the same numbers/classes) it could be wise using dif genies for mass as well. In mass Archer are perfectly fine as they are. Heck on my Storm I only get killed when I get purged in mass...so thats all an archer needs to do to get me killed. Good enough.

damn wasted my 1 mins watching the video......from a freaking private server...oh god...why did i even bother

tictic99999 · September 2015

genie anti-paralyze

this isn't a QQ about your class thread. To end all of your **** arguments, every class except duskblade can be countered. Psy is very easy to kill even in end game, its called will surge. As for the stun, most classes have a built in anti stun. Then of course there are anti-stun pots, purify, badge of courage, etc. They aren't a problem, + if they camping in white vodoo they aren't doing any damage anyways. Archers don't even need to be buffed. They do plenty of damage with just auto attacks which is pretty stupid, + they always crit and purge all the time.

@Astrelle the forum enhance emotes appear to be broken, might only be for me, not sure.

jabq · September 2015

tictic99999 wrote: »

@Astrelle the forum enhance emotes appear to be broken, might only be for me, not sure.

Ever since arc maint, they did not work for me. I miss my ponies.

eirghan · September 2015

patrickhuong said:

eirghan said:

patrickhuong said:

eirghan said:
I love that this too is becoming an archer qq thread. Not that i have anything against it. Just funny that it permeates every forum topic
because archer downgraded/nerfed/unplayable is a fact.....do you think asterelle (she actually plays archer) is a smart person? even she/he said that, so yeah it is a fact like the sun rise in the east and set in the west....people can repeat it many times
I notice people who oppose/disagree/don't like are all that DO NOT have an end game archer (RRR9) or actually play it
so please do not say anything with that care-free tone.....sound disgusting to me IJS

1) Asterelle isnt a she

2) Asterelle is Bill Gates

3) He is in my faction and I've discussed it many times, though just because one smart person says something doesn't mean it is a) fact or b) justifies you posting about archer nerfs in a Duskblade poll.

4) I didn't say I disagreed, in fact i said I have nothing against archers stance on being nerfed, so your last sentence does not apply

5) My point still stands. This is a Duskblade thread, not an archer thread.

Have a nice day
do you know why archers involved in this thread...let's me tell you this
1) DB have a freaking passive skill that decrease RANGE DAMAGE, which class got affected the most.....ARCHER
2) DB have ton of CC skills, 2 teleport skills that can be reset 1 time, which class got affected the most .....ARCHER
3) to sum up archer is the biggest victim of this so-called broken class (duskblade)
4) even a noob knows DB is an anti-archer class (a couple posts above this)
5) enough reason to start archer discussion?
6) i am not the one who start this archer talk please don't point your finger at me

the rage is real. must be cuz this game is hard.

patrickhuong · September 2015

eirghan said:

patrickhuong said:

eirghan said:

patrickhuong said:

eirghan said:
I love that this too is becoming an archer qq thread. Not that i have anything against it. Just funny that it permeates every forum topic
because archer downgraded/nerfed/unplayable is a fact.....do you think asterelle (she actually plays archer) is a smart person? even she/he said that, so yeah it is a fact like the sun rise in the east and set in the west....people can repeat it many times
I notice people who oppose/disagree/don't like are all that DO NOT have an end game archer (RRR9) or actually play it
so please do not say anything with that care-free tone.....sound disgusting to me IJS

1) Asterelle isnt a she

2) Asterelle is Bill Gates

3) He is in my faction and I've discussed it many times, though just because one smart person says something doesn't mean it is a) fact or b) justifies you posting about archer nerfs in a Duskblade poll.

4) I didn't say I disagreed, in fact i said I have nothing against archers stance on being nerfed, so your last sentence does not apply

5) My point still stands. This is a Duskblade thread, not an archer thread.

Have a nice day
do you know why archers involved in this thread...let's me tell you this
1) DB have a freaking passive skill that decrease RANGE DAMAGE, which class got affected the most.....ARCHER
2) DB have ton of CC skills, 2 teleport skills that can be reset 1 time, which class got affected the most .....ARCHER
3) to sum up archer is the biggest victim of this so-called broken class (duskblade)
4) even a noob knows DB is an anti-archer class (a couple posts above this)
5) enough reason to start archer discussion?
6) i am not the one who start this archer talk please don't point your finger at me
the rage is real. must be cuz this game is hard.

it's not hard....but sadly it's made from people who don't have normal brain

jsxshadow · September 2015

genie anti-paralyze

patrickhuong said:

jsxshadow said:

patrickhuong said:

Sure, not a problem. I already have one, altho I'm not playing the archer, I am playing the barb. This Archer was doing a great job altho ofc I was a bit unlucky with procs. Still, very well played:

Barb vs Archer Starting at 13:58. PS. This is showing PServer footage so be warned.

And ofc this game is easy as shet which makes it even sadder that some people just can't play it right. It isnt too much to ask to built a specified genie for every class. If ya cant even do that...well it's your own fault.
hmm is that a R9 weap you are holding? can you show that archer gears?
a R9 barb can almost killed a RRR9 archer....what's the point that you tried to prove here Mr. iampro?
i can kill barbs too....but that barb is just a lot under-geared compared to mine......
I notice in the video you have 2 G16 necks.....and unfortunately you are equipping the physical deff one during the archer fight (why? i don't know only you know)....second like i said above you are holding a R9 weap which means that you might be R9 not RRR9 and that archer might be RRR9....
specific genie for every class? what's the point? for PK 1 VS 1 at west archo?
what about NW and TW? i heard you can't swap genie during battle or if you are in battle state....I might be wrong though......
Uh, I fought many sins before that fight and simply forgot to switch the neck. The gears have been absolutely equal, the archer being full deity and me being 16 deity/8 jades, rest is max r9rr +12 with CoM and WoA Set, Full nuema Portal 2nd rb. As I said, its footage from a pserver. Everything is absolutely equal and identical to our version of PW cept that its the version pre-Nightshades.

Ofc you use dif genies for 1on1 only but depending on which people you fight (as you dotn always fight the same numbers/classes) it could be wise using dif genies for mass as well. In mass Archer are perfectly fine as they are. Heck on my Storm I only get killed when I get purged in mass...so thats all an archer needs to do to get me killed. Good enough.

damn wasted my 1 mins watching the video......from a freaking private server...oh god...why did i even bother

This ignorance alone is the major reason why most people just cant get to the level of skill that's needed to overcome and obstacle or to get a harder task done. It's identical to our version. IDENTICAL.

asterelle · September 2015

tictic99999 wrote: »

@Astrelle the forum enhance emotes appear to be broken, might only be for me, not sure.

jabq wrote: »

tictic99999 wrote: »

@Astrelle the forum enhance emotes appear to be broken, might only be for me, not sure.

Ever since arc maint, they did not work for me. I miss my ponies.

The text format in these forums is really wonky atm. It seems really random if you are in HTML input mode or Text input mode. I do try to force good old BBCode but there is probably more I can do there.

For now I think if you click on "Save Draft" at the bottom then reload the page you will be in the real BBCode mode.
You can tell this is the case if it says "You can use BBCode in your post." at the bottom. If you see that you can use ponies

or whatever

.

I'll work on fixing it better.

bloodedone87 · September 2015

How this has become a thread about archers?
Oh well Im going to continue playing my stormbringer . At least people dont consider storms a threat to anyone.
Hell I dont even pk.
Still not interesed in playing a duskblade.

razzzza · September 2015

genie anti-paralyze

bloodedone87 wrote: »

How this has become a thread about archers?
Oh well Im going to continue playing my stormbringer . At least people dont consider storms a threat to anyone.
Hell I dont even pk.
Still not interesed in playing a duskblade.

Cuz archers need every single little opportunity to cry out loud how "bad" their class is and that they cant auto attack stomp anyone anymore from across the map.

Just sit back and enjoy the show, the rivers shall be full again, cant wait

limonazza · September 2015

make paralyze purifyable

Archers need to deal with the fact that they are no more a DD class but a support class instead then adapt to the current meta

things might change in future who knows

but for the rest zerkcrit classes need nerfs as well as paralyze classes have severe advantages over the non paralyze ones

jabq · September 2015

asterelle wrote: »

I'll work on fixing it better.

Thank you @asterelle

patrickhuong · September 2015

ok this is ridiculous.....i have no comment for this
i just ran a judgment mode FSP with a 105/105/105 DB
the fight with mushi went like this....
we all attacked mushi until message popped up for the yellow aura....everyone ran to the yellow aura except for that DB....he remains hitting mushi
I thought...."well someone is gonna die".......turned out mushi died....my jaw dropped...
that DB just freaking solo mushi within the first yellow aura.....
no BMs involved in here; the squad didn't have BM.....
good job PWCN/PWI for creating such an OP class

jabq · September 2015

patrickhuong wrote: »

good job PWCN/PWI for creating such an OP class

Isn't that the case every time a new class comes out, it can solo bosses which other classes have a hard time dealing with. Than again +12, sharded, end game character can do it, just depends on how much time that person wants to spend doing it.

aeternusdoleo · September 2015

few or many of the above, if so please specify which ones

I understand the reason for Paralyze - a hard counter to the Purify Spell proc. Problem is, it doesn't fix existing stunhappy classes who don't have spammable paralyze abilities. It'd have been much easier to limit the Purify Spell proc to once per thirty seconds and not done the Paralyze mechanic alltogether - it's role is already taken by "Stun".

But since it's in:
- Badge of Courage and Fortify genie skills should break/block Paralyze.
- It should NOT be purifyable as that would break this ability hard-countering Purify Spell
- Several of the Dusk skills that Paralyze should swap to standard Stuns instead. No more para-lock by a single player.

[edit] @ archer rage above - Duskblades need to actually land their blows. Archers have high evasion, making paralocks on those hard. Dusks are more a threat to ranged arcane toons, especially Stormbringers, due to their extreme mobility and ability to lock a target down if they can hit it.

patrickhuong · September 2015

jabq said:

patrickhuong wrote: »

good job PWCN/PWI for creating such an OP class

Isn't that the case every time a new class comes out, it can solo bosses which other classes have a hard time dealing with. Than again +12, sharded, end game character can do it, just depends on how much time that person wants to spend doing it.

i am +12, i am end game, i am not sharded.....but i can't do it....in fact noway i can do it if i can only deal 0.1% HP to the boss.....

patrickhuong · September 2015

aeternusdoleo said:
I understand the reason for Paralyze - a hard counter to the Purify Spell proc. Problem is, it doesn't fix existing stunhappy classes who don't have spammable paralyze abilities. It'd have been much easier to limit the Purify Spell proc to once per thirty seconds and not done the Paralyze mechanic alltogether - it's role is already taken by "Stun".

But since it's in:
- Badge of Courage and Fortify genie skills should break/block Paralyze.
- It should NOT be purifyable as that would break this ability hard-countering Purify Spell
- Several of the Dusk skills that Paralyze should swap to standard Stuns instead. No more para-lock by a single player.

[edit] @ archer rage above - Duskblades need to actually land their blows. Archers have high evasion, making paralocks on those hard. Dusks are more a threat to ranged arcane toons, especially Stormbringers, due to their extreme mobility and ability to lock a target down if they can hit it.

play archer?.......archer have high evasion....

evasion is one of the broken defenses in this game
i got hit 9/10 hits from seeker, BMs, and barbs (these 3 have the lowest accuracy in game) (I have 8k evasion if you want to know or think that mine is low)
i think a DB can hit me 10/10...you can exclue evasion from the picture
i remember using blessing of condor (x10 evasion) and still got hit with 21k by DB's quadruple (or whatever that skill called)......high evasion.....
go actually play an archer then talk....Mr. archerhavehighevasion

keihan007#7641 · September 2015

damage nurf

patrickhuong said:

jabq said:

patrickhuong wrote: »

good job PWCN/PWI for creating such an OP class

Isn't that the case every time a new class comes out, it can solo bosses which other classes have a hard time dealing with. Than again +12, sharded, end game character can do it, just depends on how much time that person wants to spend doing it.

i am +12, i am end game, i am not sharded.....but i can't do it....in fact noway i can do it if i can only deal 0.1% HP to the boss.....

You are +12 bow, your armors were +10 alongside of orns and cards were non awakened SoT set? I bring this up because frankly I am getting bit tired you consider yourself some endgame player when in fact you are not. You are semi-endgame, not high tier even among those. On top of that your inability with your class and we can see you struggling to the point, which causes these threads getting derailed.

As for soloing Mushi, archer of your gear can do it, not anywhere near in 1 spark cycle and its gonna take a while but soloing Mushi isnt really hard even.

capnk · September 2015

I've been fighting DBs in NW a lot recently with my mystic. They do hit extremely hard but they have some serious drawbacks. They share the weaknesses of sins (LA is ****, dead if they get statused) without the sin advantages (stealth, tidal, deaden nerves). Equal gear, mystic should beat them. It's a nice rock-paper-scissors setup: archer beats mystic, mystic beats DB, DB beats archer. I say leave them alone as is. An anti-paralyze genie skill is an interesting idea, but that would hurt BMs badly.

patrickhuong · September 2015

saxroll said:

patrickhuong said:

jabq said:

patrickhuong wrote: »

good job PWCN/PWI for creating such an OP class

Isn't that the case every time a new class comes out, it can solo bosses which other classes have a hard time dealing with. Than again +12, sharded, end game character can do it, just depends on how much time that person wants to spend doing it.
i am +12, i am end game, i am not sharded.....but i can't do it....in fact noway i can do it if i can only deal 0.1% HP to the boss.....

You are +12 bow, your armors were +10 alongside of orns and cards were non awakened SoT set? I bring this up because frankly I am getting bit tired you consider yourself some endgame player when in fact you are not. You are semi-endgame, not high tier even among those. On top of that your inability with your class and we can see you struggling to the point, which causes these threads getting derailed.

As for soloing Mushi, archer of your gear can do it, not anywhere near in 1 spark cycle and its gonna take a while but soloing Mushi isnt really hard even.
personal attacking aren't we OK then....
since you brought up my gears i will say them in detail...
First i have +12 RRR9 weap and +12 recast R9 ring (you missed 1 +12)
yes all my armors are +10
I am using SOT with reawaken 1 lifeprime and soulprime (you missed reawaken 1 of 2 of my cards)
and my ornaments....my neck is defience cube neck +10 and my other ring is star destination +10 (please state clearly or people would think they are normal cube neck and a stupid sky cover)
and you missed one important item....EMPEROR please include that as well
well if you don't consider i am end-game...fine i don't argue with you
please state your toon's name before you say i am "inability" of my char...

PS: of course i can solo mushi...but i am talking about killing mushi within the first yellow aura...
if you can do that with your archer please record it and show it for everyone to see

patrickhuong · September 2015

capnk said:
I've been fighting DBs in NW a lot recently with my mystic. They do hit extremely hard but they have some serious drawbacks. They share the weaknesses of sins (LA is ****, dead if they get statused) without the sin advantages (stealth, tidal, deaden nerves). Equal gear, mystic should beat them. It's a nice rock-paper-scissors setup: archer beats mystic, mystic beats DB, DB beats archer. I say leave them alone as is. An anti-paralyze genie skill is an interesting idea, but that would hurt BMs badly.

you are fighting a G16 DB....that doesn't count
paper rock scissor rule doesn't exist in this game

krian090590 · September 2015

whenever there is a new class discussion thread posted. it always turns into one about archers, no matter which other class the thread was orginally about. i would like to see just one time a class discussion stay on the class it was intended for. if an opinion of archers was wanted then put it in the bloody archer class discussion threads

keihan007#7641 · September 2015

damage nurf

patrickhuong said:

personal attacking aren't we OK then....
since you brought up my gears i will say them in detail...
First i have +12 RRR9 weap and +12 recast R9 ring (you missed 1 +12)
yes all my armors are +10
I am using SOT with reawaken 1 lifeprime and soulprime (you missed reawaken 1 of 2 of my cards)
and my ornaments....my neck is defience cube neck +10 and my other ring is star destination +10 (please state clearly or people would think they are normal cube neck and a stupid sky cover)
and you missed one important item....EMPEROR please include that as well
well if you don't consider i am end-game...fine i don't argue with you
please state your toon's name before you say i am "inability" of my char...

PS: of course i can solo mushi...but i am talking about killing mushi within the first yellow aura...
if you can do that with your archer please record it and show it for everyone to see

I dont exactly check people I consider "unimportant" for their gear too often. Your gear is still at a point where you arent exactly a factor just for it and your ability with your class doesnt get you rest of the way. Sorry to hear you take that personally but as I said, I only brought it up because you arent truly endgame player you try to make yourself seem.

As I said, archer of your gear could solo Mushi, nowhere remotely as quickly as pretty much any other class though. Mushi is melee boss, archers being the only class with drop in DPS with melee target kinda affects that. And DBs have the highest DPS of all the classes in game currently, I dont see where I disagreed with that? Still I would love to see how much hp DB took at what time frame, he clearly didnt solo it all the way but "just finished it".

But to derailing this derailing back to topic, DB as a class needs rework for it to be balanced. The problem really isnt para, its the amount of CC and how cheap said CC is combined with pretty interesting level of damage. On top of that they are basically unkillable on range, which sucks but its what it is.

My changes would be to drop Destiny Hunter(Not that many use it), prolly Grief too out of DBs toolkit and make sleep melee range and see how that would affect things. Might require more CC changes but those would be a start. Also remove ranged damage passive and maybe nerf reaper form a bit, would again have to test how the class would feel after that. As for damage?`Not much you can do bout it class being dex based zerk class, maybe nerf Nighstalker a bit as following Motionless Move hits ridiculously hard.

Ps. My IGN is easy to find if you have a clue of what you are doing as plenty of people have figured it out. And no, you dont need to be on Etherblade server for it.

chary · September 2015

make paralyze purifyable

You basically need full +12 jades and at least aeu set to be maybe considered a relevant end-game archer. +10s don't cut it, brah.

sylenthunder · September 2015

krian090590 wrote: »

whenever there is a new class discussion thread posted. it always turns into one about archers, no matter which other class the thread was orginally about. i would like to see just one time a class discussion stay on the class it was intended for. if an opinion of archers was wanted then put it in the bloody archer class discussion threads

Which is why this should have been posted either in the DB forum. I was also tempted to put it in the Suggestion Forum.

Unfortunately, because it's a poll, Vanilla won't let us move it.

patrickhuong · September 2015

saxroll said:

Lel. N3 DB telling how DBs arent OP. I hit N3 DBs, if range is over 8m, for 3k crits and my physical range is 50k+ at high end. That alone is absolutely broken, archer cant beat evenly matched DB, it cant be done, period. Well sure, I have **** close enough as geared DBs as me in 1vs1 but those DBs were just god horrible at their class.

If DB loses 1vs1 on somewhat even gear to anything but sin or BM, maybe barb(?) they are complete trash. Losing any other matchup should be impossible to any remotely decent DB, discounting DB vs DB matchup.

DBs only weakness is being somewhat "squishy" at melee fights. This still puts them at major advantage against any ranged classes for simply being absolutely unkillable outside of melee range, which forces ranged classes to stay in melee range of DB if they ever intend to kill it. And DBs have the deadliest CC kit, they can permalock you with lot of paralyses, which you cant really genie your way out of. Well you can time faith right before incoming para but that is pretty darn hard against evenly skilled player. After this though? DB will just lock you knowing you have no genie left and **** you, lel. So unless you can kill DB in 4s window, which btw cant be done in even matchup, you are done for. You could chain IG but DB can easily match that IG with their own apoth.

it is totally BS saying i am derailing this thread...you are the first person who started this whole archer thing in this thread and you called me derailing the topic.....
this is the first post that has "archer" in it and you call me derailing the topic?
the post above is the ignition point of this whole archer talking......
yeah i am not "important" YET (notice the captital YET)
do you think a person who can get RRR9 gears, emperor, recast R9 ring, and defience cube neck can't get the rest? totally BS
I consider anyone with RRR9 and my gears are endgame since those are "end game" gears......they are just not OP enough (refinement and shards only adds more OPness)
according to your standard and chary's anyone who doesn't have second reawawaken neuma portal set, crown of madness, and 4 +25 spirit in their accessories is not an end-game player.

PS: I am not a stalker and i don't have "i am OP" tone, so i have no interest in your toon's name just curious to know if you are mira or not who i belive would have such a loud mouth

bloodedone87 · September 2015

I guess sins should be happy now.
Ppl have found another class to complain about: duskblades.

yghb · September 2015

genie anti-paralyze

Finally there are some duskblades and strong enough for end-game pvp, but they are still very few to make a fair judgment.

So far what I have seen is that duskblades are insanely strong in 1vs1. For venos there is no way to counter them after we use domain, expel, or faith and I imagine the other casters have the same problem. There is no way to counter them except running away while you can and avoid 1vs1 with them. When there is group pk you can count on someone breaking their stun chain, and giving you enough time to run at least.

They should just add an skill for genies to break off from paralize, or a some shield that can only be used while you are paralized that reduces damage by 50%

Unknown · September 2015

This content has been removed.

capnk · September 2015

patrickhuong said:

you are fighting a G16 DB....that doesn't count
paper rock scissor rule doesn't exist in this game

Who said anything about G16? LastMeridian, Snow, Blackteria are all r999. Twilight Temple goes hard with the cashshop.

keihan007#7641 · September 2015

damage nurf

patrickhuong said:

it is totally BS saying i am derailing this thread...you are the first person who started this whole archer thing in this thread and you called me derailing the topic.....
this is the first post that has "archer" in it and you call me derailing the topic?
the post above is the ignition point of this whole archer talking......
yeah i am not "important" YET (notice the captital YET)
do you think a person who can get RRR9 gears, emperor, recast R9 ring, and defience cube neck can't get the rest? totally BS
I consider anyone with RRR9 and my gears are endgame since those are "end game" gears......they are just not OP enough (refinement and shards only adds more OPness)
according to your standard and chary's anyone who doesn't have second reawawaken neuma portal set, crown of madness, and 4 +25 spirit in their accessories is not an end-game player.

PS: I am not a stalker and i don't have "i am OP" tone, so i have no interest in your toon's name just curious to know if you are mira or not who i belive would have such a loud mouth

There is a difference between arguing a point to argument existing in thread and the constant QQ, thread to thread, you got going. If you found those, you can surely find the fact those were a response to somebody claiming only clerics truly struggle with DBs.

So why dont you spend a bit more time on your gears if you arent there yet instead of building strawmans? I nowhere said you needed Crown, Nuema portal or those spirit shards. Eorias definition of +12 jades/deity with CF set is pretty solid, anything less and its bit difficult to consider one truly endgame player. Your definition is just idiotic as it doesnt account the refines or cards, which are honestly more important than having your basic R9T3 gears.

Ps. I consider finding out my IGN kinda of an dummy test, I tested and turns out, depending how clearly you want to see it, you need 2-4 clicks of your mouse from this page.

Pps. I dont really have time to argue with voices in your head saying I have "OP tone", I have nowhere claimed such a thing.

Balancing Duskblades

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