Discussion on making archers useful again

rapazmacho

Sel_Darkmore - Dreamweaver wrote: »

dont need to play one i fight so many from under geared to op geared to max nuema portals unfinish to finish primals and its always the smart ones that know wtf they doing that shows they dont need room for a big "wish list" maybe yall could use a better buff cause i agree its stupid when holy path can kill the increase speed. idk DW got a high population of Archers seen all kinds im not talkin trash here im really being honest about my thoughts , i honestly dont think Archers needed a big list of "need an upgrade" .

Awaken should load in 1 minute , galvanic Aura should be a buff

rapazmacho

Archer has to be recovered from the same zero.os buffs the assassin archer also need.

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Dude, please learn to edit your posts, dat sextuple posting b:shocked

freygin

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

I did it! I went through the entire skill set and managed to find a way to complain about almost every single skill! I'm so proud of myself. Complaining is maybe the most OP archer skill there is.

Wings of Grace - I feel like I'm spending a spark on what every caster now gets totally for free. Once you spend that spark you can still be stunned by all the new spammable paralyze skills from barb / duskblade / bm / whatever. Anti stun is not worth 1 second of channeling plus a spark anymore if it doesn't protect against stun. I think this should be switched to give 15 seconds of Tidal Protection. I don't care about the damage reduction effect of this skill since it is one of the smallest damage reductions in the game.

Take Aim - The main problem with this skill is that it does not stack with a normal arrow fired after it. Quickshot and Stun Arrow have more DPH than this skill even if you fully charge take aim for 3 seconds because of that stack. I never see anyone endgame fully charge this skill as it just doesn't feel strong. Everyone just insta fires it for the 15 chi and moves on. The damage needs to be a lot bigger fully charged but at least it has some utility as a chi building throw away.

Quickshot - The sage / demon versions of this skill are pretty good but both crit and aps are now being nerfed hard. I'd rather it have a more modern damage increasing effect like more rage damage or more attack levels.

Knockback Arrow - This skill has no effect in PVP and I never use it. No one ever uses it. I think it's the only single target knockback in the game that doesn't work in pvp. To fix it they should just enable the PVP knockback, it's only single target. There are so many classes out there already with knockbacks / reelins / transposition.

Aim Low - A skill that only immobilizes, why does it cost a spark? It's not even 100% chance and can miss. Heatseeker is just as long but generates 10 chi, never fails, and can zerk crit metal. Tackling slash generates 50 chi and lasts longer. Glacial shards is an aoe, generates 15 chi and has a shorter cooldown.
Half the time I use this skill on a caster it just procs their purify spell and they end up running away faster, I spend a full spark to increase their speed and give them anti stun. The chi cost of this skill needs to be removed.

Stun Arrow - Short stun but it's a low effort skill and not bad cooldown. Can't complain too much.

Barrage - Only problem with it is that it's the only continuous skill that drops when the target dies which makes finding a suitable barrage target overly annoying. Maybe it should spawn some kind of entity at the target and that entity becomes the center of the skill, stormbringer and mystic have skills that work like that. Still it's not often we come across an archer skill that gets actual use so that's saying something.

Lightning strike - Why was it so important to make the demon version have a 2 second longer cooldown than level 10? How many skills are there in the game that get downgraded like that. Seems dumb.

Thundershock - Primal passives basically killed off all mres/pdef debuffs in the game and this is no exception. -50% mres is not worth the 30chi cost these days. It also doesn't benefit from its own proc so the only way to make use of that worthless debuff you spent 30 chi on is to follow it up with a lightning strike. After you use those 2 skills though it's about time to stop throwing around metal. The end result is that you spend 30 chi on making a second attack slightly stronger. These days I'm more likely to skip this skill than not. I'd like to see the chi cost removed or lowered.

Thunderous Blast - It's an aoe. It doesn't do anything but not many archer aoes don't cost chi so can't complain.

Stormrage Eagleon - lol

Blazing Arrow - Adding a % weapon attack is an old fashioned damage amp, I'd prefer something modern that's noticeable with today's dex levels. At least it lets you hit phys immune stuff though.

Sharptooth - This is perhaps the fundamental archer PVE damage amp but why the hell do they make every new boss in the game immune to it? It makes no sense for a veno to be able to amp the boss, a BM to be able to HF the boss, a seeker to be able to WTFBBQ debuff the boss, but an archer can't nip a little HP at the start. Ohh and the demon skill description is wrong, it's only 15% hp not 16%.

Feather Armageddon - This skill is almost exactly the same as wingspan. Same cooldown, same chi, same range. The only difference is that you lose a skill to make it. Do not get this skill.

Wings of Protection - No one ever asks for archer buffs and there is a reason. First the speed buff; this buff is constantly discarded by every other speedbuff in the game. Why does a 10second speed skill overbuff a 15 minute skill? It's the only squad buff that is nearly always discarded. Give the damn thing it's own icon.

Now.. evasion. You can tell the devs gave up on evasion half way through making the game. They had this grandiose idea for a class with defense based on evasion but then they decided not to follow through with it. They added rings and skills that give ridiculously high accuracy but nothing for evasion. No evasion cube neck. No evasion warsong belts. No evasion on the R9 belt. No rings you could refine for evasion. Ohh and magic never misses anyway because -reasons-.
Later on when they wanted to resurrect the concept of an evasion-based class they couldn't use actual evasion because it's ****. Instead they made evasion that actually works in the form of tidal protection / focus mind and put that on top of the crappy old evasion archers have. Of course they went way too far and made it the most OP thing in the game.

To fix this skill ditch the evasion part and replace it with focus mind. Maybe like a 15% focus mind squad buff. Something of equal utility to other squad buffs like bell and barb buff.

Alacrity - It's pretty similar to other instant cast speed+anti stun buffs in the game and it's interesting how it can be cast on others. Maybe the 3 minute cooldown can be shorter.

Blessing of the Condor - Why does this stupid thing remove our squad buff? Does Buddha Guard remove bell? Does Bramble Hood remove Bramble Guard? Why do I have to use a defense skill that leaves me weaker? Give the damn thing its own icon.

Awaken - It's not that special these days because it has the longest cooldown of any chi skill in the game. The stormbringer version of this skill gives just as much chi but only 90s cooldown. Sin inner harmony gives half of much chi 5 times as often. Other classes have recently gotten stupidly easy ways to generate chi, like that new BM skill that generates 50 chi with a 6s cooldown, sage veno / panda form, the new wiz shield that constantly vomits chi. I wouldn't mind this getting a shorter cooldown like 2.5 minutes instead of 5 but can't complain too much.

Blood vow - It's rare to come across a 1 spark archer skill that is worth a 1 spark. Did this really need a 2 minute cooldown though? It already costs a full spark, are they worried archers would actually use it instead of save it up constantly? There are tons of OP skills like HF with 30 second cooldowns.

Whisper Shot - I never use this skill. I am certain the skill description is lying and the seal only lasts 2 seconds instead of 3. The range is only half range for no reason and the line width of this skill is only 2 meters making it the thinest line aoe in the game. For all intents and purposes this is a single target close range 2 second seal that costs 1 spark. Remove the chi cost, give it full range, increase the line width, increase the seal duration; pick at least 3 out of those 4 and this skill would be worth getting. Until then don't bother with it.

Galvanic Aura - I never use this skill and never see anyone use it. It costs 2 sparks and 3 seconds of your time for 6meters of range, 3 minute cooldown. 6 meters is the distance you walk in 1 second so you spend 3 seconds to save 1 second of walking. If you want to spend chi offensively you'd be better off casting spark. If you want to spend chi defensively you're better off with wings of grace. This skill is in a really awkward spot in the middle where you spend chi for nothing.

Ohh and the stormbringer version of this skill is 15 meters of added range for only 50 chi and only 90 second cooldown, instant cast. It's cute how they give other classes superior copies of archer skills.

Arrow Inferno - Another 1 spark skill. It adds 3 seconds to charm cooldown which is cool but only lasts 30 seconds so you're gonna get that benefit once and MAYBE twice. You spend a spark for 3-6 seconds of effect. Of course you spend 4 seconds casting this skill so there is zero net benefit in a 1v1 situation (except in ZTP combos you won't have a chance to use). Still it is worth it as a support ability against tanky targets in TW. After all, they have to make sure to give archer support skills and not serious DD ability.

Ataraxia - It's exactly like shadow escape! Except longer cooldown. And 5 times more MP usage. And you can't move. And you don't get a free spark. But other than THOSE things it's exactly like shadow escape!
Really I just find it insulting archer gets totally inferior copies of skills while other classes get the superior version. At least give the archer version a token benefit like no MP usage or something.

Leap left / right - These are good. They are of similar quality to the BM / Wizard versions with the tradeoff in cooldowns / chi cost / range. The only problem is that they almost always leave you stranded in the air for no reason unless the ground is 100% flat. They're also a lot harder to use in the air due to the unfavorable direction and camera controls.

Frost Splash - Low damage, unnoticeable effect, large chi cost, long cooldown, no ability to purge. It's definitely an archer skill. The aoe size can be kinda cool but you feel really guilty spending sparks on this and not on barrage. Still seeing those tiny red numbers everywhere is amusing and you'll probably kill some undergeared player somewhere who thinks archers are OP. To give you a feel of the DPS of this, it's a little less than 2 normal arrows worth of damage but spread out over 2.5 seconds (3.5 with channel time). Mediocre. To fix it I'd either drastically lower the chi cost / cooldown or make it last something like 20 waves instead of just 5, give the damage some time to rack up instead of quitting after doing nothing.

If I was sage I would skip this skill because Sage Frost arrow seems more useful. Even then though sage frost is just an exact copy of Gush / Cyclone except instead of generating chi it costs 25 chi.

Kiss of the Snake - It's like they had an idea to combine 2 worthless dots into one worthless dot. The reason DoTs are so crappy in this game is because the devs are bad at math and don't realize dots never crit. To make the dot actually noticeable you'd want each dot tick to be comparable to a normal arrow damage, which is equal to around twice base damage due to crit. With my endgame dex and crit, a normal arrow is on average 1450% weapon attack damage. This skill though thinks it cost twice as much time as a normal arrow but only adds 600% attack. You spend twice as long for an additional 1/3 damage. That's NOT a worthwhile skill. If you want to make a DoT skill good for an archer it would need 1450% weapon attack for every 3 seconds of the DoT. The DoT on this skill is 5 times weaker than it should be. That's a lot better than the two skills it's made from which have dots about 30 times weaker than they need to be.

Winged Shell - I never use this. It's 45 chi skill for a defense charm. Why is it a veno can spend 30 chi on something awesome like blazing barrier and archer spends much more on something so bad? The primal version of this blocks 1500 HP, that's 5% of my hp. I'd scrap it and give archers a magic version of plume shell or something.

Flight Mastery - Imagine how cool it would be if this passive removed the air to ground damage penalty? Currently air combat is all but dead due to that penalty. The only reason there is any air combat at all is that clerics have no air to ground penalty in their heals. Since archers are also elves I think it would be interesting to have a winged DD role as well. Having some air to ground DD ability might prevent people from ignoring air like they do today.

This is a QQ with well thought poured into it. Even though my main isn't archer, I once played archer as a main, and I agree to most of the QQ, and since cleric is also an elf, I like the idea of Flight Mastery to remove air to ground penalty damage, elves are air units so it's only fair to have specialty while in the air, barbs are ground units and they're given a skill to drop air targets, what's weird is why psychic as a water based class but given a skill to boost fly speed. This will also give archers specialty for attacking ppl on the ground. With greater range, even ranged magic class won't be able to hit archer from the ground if archer is at full range, so they'll be forced to fly and catch up before being able to hit back. I like this one best. (if ground to air units are given penalty dmg it'll be more awesome but that'll be asking too much and inviting QQs from all of the other sides b:chuckle)

I object the evasion to work with magic though, because magic especially cleric and wiz are classes that needs channeling the most, and most other regions' endgame gears are r8r and the mats for rerolling can only be obtained from trials and now resource war for damascene ore, -channeling is a bit hard to get and would require a lot of rerolls, that'd be impossible to get a good -channeling paired with other good stats on the piece, so if evasion is enabled for magic damage, that'd cripple cleric and wiz greatly.

I have a question about one thing, I won't argue with you about calculations since I know you're an expert in that area, but please enlighten me. Even though primal gives passive buff for defense, isn't base damage generally also increased and even more so with skill damage buff, sure archers suffer dmg nerf because normal attack won't benefit from the skill dmg passive while archers rely on dps from normal attack, but normal attack still gains its portion of advantage from crit passive and the boost of base damage, so it still hurts when purged / debuffed with Thundershock, as well as the other classes' debuffs, even spark from wiz etc. The way I see it as other people also have told me, it's because we don't have as much the increase from having the max possible avatars so there is still a lot of rooms for improving base dmg, but that would also scale up the defense and hp too.

Kniraven - Lost City

I legitimately think you guys just have no idea how to play your class correctly.
You have poor defense to compensate for your distance advantage and the highest phy-attack in the game (which can also be converted to magic damage)

You're a dex based class whch allows you to maximize damage, crit, accuracy, and evasion all at once. As often as I miss when attacking 900+ dex sins and archers, don't evn try to tell me that acc/eva don't matter.

My zerk+crits are equal in damage to your just plain regular lightning attack crits. Every attack you hit somebody with is a chance to purge them and competent opponents have to play as such. Time is not on their side and apoth needs to be conserved.

The only class period which I have more difficulty fighting than an archer is an end game assassin.

You want to know who should really be up ont hese forums b/*tching? Wizards. Wizards got the shaft in recent updates.

All that's happened with archers is they don't wreck people quite as badly as they did before and aren't as easy-mode


DISCLAIMER: I think flight mastery should work on all wing sets, and that EA speed buff should not be overwritten

freygin

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

I legitimately think you guys just have no idea how to play your class correctly.
You have poor defense to compensate for your distance advantage and the highest phy-attack in the game (which can also be converted to magic damage)

You're a dex based class whch allows you to maximize damage, crit, accuracy, and evasion all at once. As often as I miss when attacking 900+ dex sins and archers, don't evn try to tell me that acc/eva don't matter.

My zerk+crits are equal in damage to your just plain regular lightning attack crits. Every attack you hit somebody with is a chance to purge them and competent opponents have to play as such. Time is not on their side and apoth needs to be conserved.

The only class period which I have more difficulty fighting than an archer is an end game assassin.

You want to know who should really be up ont hese forums b/*tching? Wizards. Wizards got the shaft in recent updates.

How come wizards have the right to QQ with recent updates, chi regen, crit buff, another stun skill. They should celebrate.

Kniraven - Lost City

freygin wrote: »

How come wizards have the right to QQ with recent updates, chi regen, crit buff, another stun skill. They should celebrate.

Because their class gets steam-rolled now that defense debuffs do jack diddly squat.

freygin

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Because their class gets steam-rolled now that defense debuffs do jack diddly squat.

That's what I'm still wondering why many people including Asterelle whom I know is good in calculation also said the same thing, passive defense and debuffs, and also purge, if it's from archer perspective. I'd like to know if there's something missing from the way I see it, so again, please advise if anyone have any insight about that.

Without complicated example let's just see it from the cap defense reduction. It's raised from 90% to 95%, it's basically the same thing as half damage, right ?

If someone has 90% before primal, now they have 95% reduction, that'd be the same as receiving half damage, but isn't base damage also got increased with more stats from rebirth, gear dmg from nuema/avatars, skill dmg. I don't know if any char in PWI with 95% reduction exist but I believe the majority hasn't reached that point (cmiiw).

drcalgori87

I have 2 of each class, demon and sage of each, and archers are just fine as is, same for wizzies, i have no problem doing any instance/event now when talking pvp well it comes down to gear, if ya wanna pvp with the big boys you need r9'd +12 maxxed shards, anything else and you are just fail.

rapazmacho

Arqueiro deveria andar invisível.

Lixo de classe.

rapazmacho

Winged should have some transformation in aerial combat to improve the defense , and other attributes .

rapazmacho

Archer should go invisible.

Class of garbage.

rapazmacho

Archer should be excluded from the game or be redone from scratch.

rapazmacho

Arqueiro deveria andar invisível.

Lixo de classe.

rapazmacho

Mago has much better jumping the 2 Archer waste of only 20 meters and 35 seconds of waiting.


Magician jumps 25 meters (If evil jumps 30 meters) and only have 10 seconds of waiting.

Mago has buff leaps leaping 25 meters back and dissipated in close combat .


After all who have reduced damage to atcar closely? Archer or Mage ?

rapazmacho

After all who have reduced damage to attack up close? Archer or Mage ?

AsMyliuTave - Sanctuary

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

I legitimately think you guys just have no idea how to play your class correctly.

Just gonna shoot that one straight back at you, because a BM who is having trouble with a similarly-geared archer obviously needs to learn how to BM.

If you actually fight archers with better gear than yourself, then yes you may struggle. Nobody has said archers aren't great at killing those lower-geared, we just suck against people of equal gear and we're a joke against anyone better-geared.

Kniraven - Lost City

AsMyliuTave - Sanctuary wrote: »

Just gonna shoot that one straight back at you, because a BM who is having trouble with a similarly-geared archer obviously needs to learn how to BM.

If you actually fight archers with better gear than yourself, then yes you may struggle. Nobody has said archers aren't great at killing those lower-geared, we just suck against people of equal gear and we're a joke against anyone better-geared.

Feb. 2, 2015 - Kniraven Vs TayCung - By Kniraven
May. 23, 2014 - Kniraven Vs BigSnipez - By Kniraven

2 fights Vs Archers.
I agree Archers are not the best 1v1 class. Do you have any idea how difficult those two would be though in a group fight where i have others preventing me from assaulting/engaging them?
I prevent myself from being killed by keeping close and keeping on the attack.

Not being a great 1v1 class does not mean you are underpowered.

Arenaceous - Lost City

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

You want to know who should really be up ont hese forums b/*tching? Wizards. Wizards got the shaft in recent updates.

On wiz board you told us to suck it up. b:cry

Asterelle - Sanctuary

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Feb. 2, 2015 - Kniraven Vs TayCung - By Kniraven
May. 23, 2014 - Kniraven Vs BigSnipez - By Kniraven

2 fights Vs Archers.
I agree Archers are not the best 1v1 class. Do you have any idea how difficult those two would be though in a group fight where i have others preventing me from assaulting/engaging them?
I prevent myself from being killed by keeping close and keeping on the attack.

Not being a great 1v1 class does not mean you are underpowered.

Don't pretend like you had some genius strategy there. All you did was spam control skills and walk forward. Any idiot can do that and yet you totally destroyed them both despite them vastly outgearing you. +12 josd vs +10 vit stone should not even be close to a fair fight.

Also those 2k-5k crits the archers are doing on you don't get magically stronger in TW.

Kniraven - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Don't pretend like you had some genius strategy there. All you did was spam control skills and walk forward. Any idiot can do that and yet you totally destroyed them both despite them vastly outgearing you. +12 josd vs +10 vit stone should not even be close to a fair fight.

Also those 2k-5k crits the archers are doing on you don't get magically stronger in TW.

The 2k-5k crits are through defense charms and often when close enough to get a damage reduction.
They do "magically" get stronger when turned to magic damage. They begin hitting me upwards of 8k per attack, or higher when I am amped or my buffs get spontaneously purged.

Those exact same archers have hit me an upwards of 25k at times with Blood Vow and a timely purge.

If an archer has people protecting them, they can kill most equal geared people.
Their problem in a 1v1 is the inability to maintain distance.
In group PvP, as a BM, I realize I am not the DD. I use control skills on those who are targeting my DDs so that the DDs can DD.

If archers had more control skills, no damage reduction, or more evasive skills, they would be unbelievably broken.

P.S. If you think I only am doing well because I am facing an archer, here is a 1v1 with a well known and significantly better geared Psychic on our server. I do not think anybody is going to tell me Psychics are an inferior class

Dec. 12, 2014 - Kniraven Vs TendosAngel - By Kniraven

AsMyliuTave - Sanctuary

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Feb. 2, 2015 - Kniraven Vs TayCung - By Kniraven
May. 23, 2014 - Kniraven Vs BigSnipez - By Kniraven

2 fights Vs Archers.

All you've done there is prove my point. According to your videos they both outgear you. You still won. Did you even notice the pitiful damage you were taking in that second video?
You complain about metal damage, and don't use magical marrow...no wonder you were taking 8k in the first video!

Kniraven - Lost City

AsMyliuTave - Sanctuary wrote: »

All you've done there is prove my point. According to your videos they both outgear you. You still won. Did you even notice the pitiful damage you were taking in that second video?
You complain about metal damage, and don't use magical marrow...no wonder you were taking 8k in the first video!

Archers can't spam magic attacks. Its better to use magic charms in attempt to tank the magic attacks as opposed to cutting my physical defense in half for an extended period of time. I'm sage, I can't just spam a buff proc every 15 seconds.

Plus, I agreed with your complaint that Archers were not good in a 1v1.
I am telling you they are not meant to be. Their shortcomings are what prevent them from being broken.

HideYoHubby - Archosaur

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Archers can't spam magic attacks. Its better to use magic charms in attempt to tank the magic attacks as opposed to cutting my physical defense in half for an extended period of time. I'm sage, I can't just spam a buff proc every 15 seconds.

Plus, I agreed with your complaint that Archers were not good in a 1v1.
I am telling you they are not meant to be. Their shortcomings are what prevent them from being broken.

So archer is gonna drop BM with physical damage? I really have hard time taking your comments seriously. The only way archer is ever going to kill a BM that comes close to archers gear is trough metal dmg. If you are afraid of physical damage, it only tells a story how you are ridiculously outgeared in comparison.

Ps. What you completely fail to realize is how every other class would be just as if not more effective in group PK as archer with that gear.

Asterelle - Sanctuary

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

P.S. If you think I only am doing well because I am facing an archer, here is a 1v1 with a well known and significantly better geared Psychic on our server. I do not think anybody is going to tell me Psychics are an inferior class

Dec. 12, 2014 - Kniraven Vs TendosAngel - By Kniraven

Are you even looking at your own videos?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_39kl2KzBGI&t=184

Let me narrate what happens.
The psychic puts up soul of stunning, stuns you with earth vector that hits 5k non crit, follows that up with a 10k crit, some other move thats 6k non crit, you decide at this point to use disarm and end up stun yourself for 14s (I guess you forgot soul of stunning), that psychic steps back and kills you with a string of 11k+ crits.

That went absolutely nothing like those one-sided archer fights and your brilliant strategies magically disappeared. Even though those archers had the same gear as that psychic they had no chance against little +10 you due to having an inferior outdated skill set.

Your claim of 25k archer crits with "BV and a timely purge" is ridiculous nonsense. BV only amps 25% so a 25k crit with BV would be a 20k crit without BV. Were you wearing NPC armor at the time? Total BS.

Kniraven - Lost City

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Are you even looking at your own videos?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_39kl2KzBGI&t=184

Let me narrate what happens.
The psychic puts up soul of stunning, stuns you with earth vector that hits 5k non crit, follows that up with a 10k crit, some other move thats 6k non crit, you decide at this point to use disarm and end up stun yourself for 14s (I guess you forgot soul of stunning), that psychic steps back and kills you with a string of 11k+ crits.

That went absolutely nothing like those one-sided archer fights and your brilliant strategies magically disappeared. Even though those archers had the same gear as that psychic they had no chance against little +10 you due to having an inferior outdated skill set.

Your claim of 25k archer crits with "BV and a timely purge" is ridiculous nonsense. BV only amps 25% so a 25k crit with BV would be a 20k crit without BV. Were you wearing NPC armor at the time? Total BS.

I'll screenshot it for you next time one of those archers hit me that hard.

and yes, I did **** up and get myself stunned by soul of stunning in the 1 fight of 3 that i lost. I make mistakes all of the time.

I'm not sure why you keep repeating "Don't pretend like you had some genius strategy there." / "your brilliant strategies magically disappeared."

All I said was that I can defeat other classes with that sort of gear too.
This was in contrast to what I perceived as a claim you made.
You said "Any idiot can do that and yet you totally destroyed them both despite them vastly outgearing you. +12 josd vs +10 vit stone should not even be close to a fair fight."

I took this as you making the claim my opponent lost as result of him being an archer; should he have been another class it would be an unfair fight and my opponent would be the uncontested victor. I responded by showing you a fight I had with another class in similar gear, where I also won 2/3 fights.

Ideally, what would follow is this
Either: Psychics are also an inferior/weak class
Or: The archer was not defeated simply because of the fact he is an archer

Asterelle - Sanctuary

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Ideally, what would follow is this
Either: Psychics are also an inferior/weak class
Or: The archer was not defeated simply because of the fact he is an archer

Those fights are not at all similar. Psychic did significantly better than the archer despite having the same gear. The class advantage that a BM has over an archer is much larger than the class advantage a BM has over a psychic and your videos prove exactly that.

bailey021

Almost every class got effed big time by rb2, S cards, primal passives, r9rr+12 yada yada. You want to complain? How about the fact that every pet my veno has is either a one or a two shot? And because of the fact that we're supposed to be able to use pets... our damage is nerfed. Even our buff doesn't work in normal pvp. Pwi will never fix any of this because of the simple fact that they don't care. I've run into archers that, even without r9rr, can do hella damage on me. They aren't meant to be a tank class. What about 100% crit rates?! Like damn... when I'm getting crit that much... I can't heal fast enough to even attack back. Learn to use what you do have.

phmn

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Archers can't spam magic attacks. Its better to use magic charms in attempt to tank the magic attacks as opposed to cutting my physical defense in half for an extended period of time. I'm sage, I can't just spam a buff proc every 15 seconds.

Plus, I agreed with your complaint that Archers were not good in a 1v1.
I am telling you they are not meant to be. Their shortcomings are what prevent them from being broken.

Alright you're a blademaster. You're a melee class with a ton of control skills. Therefore you're operating within an archer's 50% damage reduction area and you DON'T magic marrow? Because an archer at that range has all of 4-5 skills they can use at that range without a damage reduction and 3 of them are metal attacks. You double your surivability against an archer using magic marrow. Your marrows exist to make you more tanky, your neglect to use them is no one's fault but your own.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Let me just say for the record...the only way an archer can kill an endgame BM is ZTP metal, and that's assuming the archer doesn't get interrupted, assuming mag marrow gets purged, assuming the BM has no pill/genie to use.

If an archer somehow manages to do all that and still have a pill to ZTP with, that BM has sucked balls to a raisin.

Archer's only useful perk is the followup auto, which is really nothing compared to the potential of delayed damage nukes, life reversion, and least of all zerk critting on harder hitting nukes.

I probably have a different idea than Asty's when it comes to skill updates because I purport to embrace the whole backline debuffer thing. Obviously numbers can be adjusted for balance.

Take Aim: Never miss, always crit and mini-stuns when fully charged

DoT Arrows: (Serrated/Vicious) make them attack buffs, such that every attack while the buff is active applies a stacking DoT (75% weapon damage as DoT per hit). Vicious attack buff cannot stack with Serrated attack buff

Sage Vicious: stacking mana drain per tick, same mana drained as damage dealt
Demon Vicious: poison duration down to 6s

Sage Serrated: bleed duration down to 6s
Demon Serrated: stacking health gain per tick, same health gained as damage dealt

Kiss of Snake: 100% weapon damage as bleed DoT, 100% weapon damage as poison DoT. Sage has mana drain, Demon has health steal

Stormrage: reapplies debuff every tick, mini-stun 0.5s every tick (3s).
Sage: chance to cost 1 spark
Demon: mini-stun 1s

Aim Low: never miss, never fail, even then it's **** compared to say...Earth Vector.
Lightning Strike: 3s cooldown
KB Arrow: Interrupts, increase enemy channel time for 5s
Wingspan: applies an additional 600% weapon damage phys DoT to AOE over 9s, extra chi gain if Sage, Winged Shell if Demon
Winged Strike: freezes on hit, Sage CD 1s, Demon increases enemy channel time for 5s

Feather Armageddon: 1/2 hp and 1/2 mana * 4 as dama- **** this NO FEATHER ARMAGEDDON

Frost Splash: get rid of it. Piece of ****, bad at damage, 2 spark cost, 3min CD. There is this ****, and there is Mountain's Seize for 2 sparks and 30s cd, for example, I'm just saying
Whisper Shot: get rid of it. Can't interrupt, can miss, long channel time, same range as Smack, what the ****.

In place of Frost Splash: Combining Deadly Shot and Frost Arrow: gains 15 chi, 10s cd, inflicts attack damage reduction, rage damage reduction for 10s. Deals 100% weapon damage + 5k whatever. Sage deals it all as water damage, Demon increases reduction percentage.

In place of Whisper Shot: Attack buff, for the next 20s, every auto attack has chance to Silence for 1s, chance based on Soulforce. Stackable with other attack buffs