How to rescue wizzies

XXHotXx - Morai

eirghan wrote: »

Balance should be based on end game. But you are wondering why the wizard is an unpopular choice and i believe people drop out at mid game which is why you dont see many end game wizards.

Questioning my mass pvp experience changes nothing. Im starting to wonder if this is a server difference and wizards here are just better on Sanctuary. Look up YouTube videos by doods, gingerbreaddd, faceroll, darkabyssal. Appearances by BigBrawls, merrili, bele_wiz is good to note as well. Only a portion of our pvp wizards population is truly end game. You will see that they have no problem repeatedly levelling opponents and in fact rarely die. It sounds like wizards maybe need to learn to kite more.

I dont actually believe ill change anyones mind here but i am surprised at the amount of wizards who want insanely overpowered buffs that would in fact tip the scale way over to the point that everyone would just make a wizard.

I think im gonna go start a qq thread. Us seekers want tidal :c

we arent asking for op buffs such tidal, we would be just fine if undine strike would be applied on the global value for example, and if our AOEs would deal 300% base damage (elimination has 320%)

not asking for OP sheet, just hoping for something that could make wizards "The DPH class" back

Kniraven - Lost City

Wizards had god mode for over a year w/ Purify Proc, Anti-APS buff, Earth Shield, and Genie-Spark. Suck it up a while until the next big change. Primal Passives were balancing.

Arenaceous - Lost City

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Wizards had god mode for over a year w/ Purify Proc, Anti-APS buff, Earth Shield, and Genie-Spark. Suck it up a while until the next big change. Primal Passives were balancing.

I quit 2.5 years ago and came back in december. Bad timing I guess. b:surrender

XXHotXx - Morai

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Wizards had god mode for over a year w/ Purify Proc, Anti-APS buff, Earth Shield, and Genie-Spark. Suck it up a while until the next big change. Primal Passives were balancing.

a +7 5aps sin could faceroll a r9 josd wizard back in time despite our stone barrier, was that balanced?
Purify and arcane barrier came to counter that

Also devs took the direction to nerf even more the auto-attacks with the anti crit rate buffs, pills and anti auto-attack damage buff
We haven't gotten god mode, all arcane classes had purify, while some other ones had GoF that always have been way more broken than purify,

i would trade purify for gof on my weapon straight away right now as i would as soon as r9r3 was released, (and like if an HF zerkcrit isn't a thing nowadays, just a 800% damage amp :-) )

Also spark...
We have the longest channelling skills (making fire combo predictable) and there are 1k counters to spark already, nerfing spark in the remote case you manage to land it, wasn't really necessary, cause right now we are left with nothing.

But well what i was talking about that if once upon a time i was hitting an unbuffed barb with gush for 1000, then with undine gush it would've been 1600

Now with the same skill if i damage the unbuffed barb for 1000, then i will hit him for 1100 if i apply undine debuff.

That's so bad.... for a class that can't DPS, nerfing our DPH like this was just plain ****, stupid, nonsense, (mis)designed by deluded developers

FaceRolI - Sanctuary

Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »

I like the channeling passive... 2% per level with 22% for lvl 11. 25% for Sage and 2% crit for Demon.b:laugh

so why wizard need channeling passive?

b:thanks

RSully - Heavens Tear

Hmmmm... If I'm dreaming, I'm dreaming big.

1. A 20% reduction in ulti channeling.
2. Sopo last 5 seconds, 1 minute cooldown.
3. A Force of Will that doesn't fail half the time.
4. Tac and Spatial Reversion ACTUALLY WORK IN F*CKING PVP INSTANCES.
5. Manifest Virtue has a 2 minute or less cooldown.
6. Will of the Phoenix pushes players.
7. Elemental Shell lasts 12 seconds, increase cooldown to 1m (wha? too op? Then nurf clerics sleep ability kthx)
8. Elemental Invocation hits harder.
9. A USEFUL PARTY BUFF, WHAT A CONCEPT.
10. Undine has a 20% chance to purge. Give my Longevity an F'ing break.
11. Make Hailstorm a legit 8m AoE.
12. Dragon's Breath hits every 1 sec, just like Vortex
13. Ice Prison is a one sparker.
14. Sutra is a one sparker.
15. Frozen Flame hits 3 times using all elements. Aww hell yeah.
16. Give us back Sandstorm, make a primal skill out of Crown of Flame and Pitfall that amps, and does DoT Earth and Fire damage.

Not asking to much am I?

teikiatsu11

Any class could be considered underpowered if you have no clue how to play it.

Although I do agree wizards could use lower channeling/cast times since the game has changed so much. Before any new classes were released wizards were considered broken. Now with faster casting magic classes wizards aren't as desired as they once were.

RSully - Heavens Tear

teikiatsu11 wrote: »

Any class could be considered underpowered if you have no clue how to play it.

Although I do agree wizards could use lower channeling/cast times since the game has changed so much. Before any new classes were released wizards were considered broken. Now with faster casting magic classes wizards aren't as desired as they once were.

That's one reason a lot of non-wizards fail to see the problem. I kill better geared players at times just because they are clueless, or lazy. I still kill under-geared players much as I always have.

But in mass pvp, with fully buffed opponents, it's so stupid trying to channel ultis for mediocre hits. I play more support style than offense at times, but we aren't a support class either. Give us channeling or give us better damage. Nuff said

Arenaceous - Lost City

I got another idea, we could replace one of our countless useless lvl 100 skills with a skill that does something like:

"Deals base magic damage plus 240% of weapon damage plus 9455 physical damage and reducing the target's fire, earth and water resistance by 100% for 6 seconds."

But I think that would probably be pretty OP...

bloodedone87

Arenaceous - Lost City wrote: »

I got another idea, we could replace one of our countless useless lvl 100 skills with a skill that does something like:

"Deals base magic damage plus 240% of weapon damage plus 9455 physical damage and reducing the target's fire, earth and water resistance by 100% for 6 seconds."

But I think that would probably be pretty OP...

Its not your idea.
You copied the SB lvl100 skill Perigian Tide( which will be implemented in the game next week) and add some few changes to it.

Perigian tide:
Perigean Tide: Deals base magic damage plus 240% of weapon damage plus 9455 physical damage and reducing the target's metal and water resistance by 100% for 6 seconds.

Your instead of reducing target metal and water it reduce fire, earth and water.

You are lame for not being able to come up with your own idea or even just to inspire yourself from SB skill.

xoinix

bloodedone87 wrote: »

Its not your idea.
You copied the SB lvl100 skill Perigian Tide( which will be implemented in the game next week) and add some few changes to it.

Perigian tide:
Perigean Tide: Deals base magic damage plus 240% of weapon damage plus 9455 physical damage and reducing the target's metal and water resistance by 100% for 6 seconds.

Your instead of reducing target metal and water it reduce fire, earth and water.

You are lame for not being able to come up with your own idea or even just to inspire yourself from SB skill.

Well they do say that imitation is the greatest form of flattery b:chuckle

Arenaceous - Lost City

I hate it when I have to explain jokes and/or irony. Of course I copied the skill... It was a hidden QQ at other classes getting really good lvl 100 skills while we are stuck with Elemental Invocation. My God seriously, people are so dense sometimes.

XXHotXx - Morai

i believe at the very end we would be fine if they would remove primal passive skills from the game so our debuffs wont be ****.

then we would also need our ultis to be tweaked cause 2spark waste for something that barely hits more than a gush it's once again ****

and perhaps mountain seize should paralyze b:dirty

ZentDreigon - Raging Tide

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

perhaps mountain seize should paralyze b:dirty

b:dirty Imagine groups of people falling to the ground. I can see many people complaining about this and I don't care.

RSully - Heavens Tear

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i believe at the very end we would be fine if they would remove primal passive skills from the game so our debuffs wont be ****.

then we would also need our ultis to be tweaked cause 2spark waste for something that barely hits more than a gush it's once again ****

and perhaps mountain seize should paralyze b:dirty

Demon MS is such a beautiful AoE in terms of range. Elevate the stun to Demon Roar(cannot fail), knock off 1/3 of the channeling and boost it's damage. OMG, I would be so damn happy with it.

Shoyahz - Heavens Tear

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

and perhaps mountain seize should paralyze b:dirty

I'd take this and run. Not that it'll ever happen cause the QQ of other classes, but omg how nice would it be b:laugh

jspwione

MS and BIDS needs a slight bump in skill effects and damage that's for sure.

MS should have am extra 20% base damage with a minor increase of 2k in fixed damage while having the stun duration last 7 seconds at least or making it a 100% chance instead of 95%. And if you really want paralyze effect then it will be a primal skill update that adds an extra skill effect. Giving it a 10-30% chance to paralyze for 6 seconds based on soulforce. Nothing game-breaking.

As for BIDS, the same extra 20% base damage with a minor increase of 2k in fixed damage while increasing the speed reduction to become 80% and making it 100% chance instead of 95%. Primal upgrade will improve the sage/demon effects to having extra 5 seconds duration for sage proc and as for demon, it could use a 30% chance to cost no sparks.

As for BT, while it doesn't lack damage and scale alot better at endgame, it should become 120% base damage as well but it should have zero extra fixed damage increment while the other two gets extra damage and improvements to skill effects. Primal upgrade for BT should increase the chance to proc sage/demon effects to 60% instead of 50%.

20% base damage improvement might not seem like much but it will scale slightly better towards endgame and make wizards incorporate more skills that increase their base damage more often, such as Manifest Virtue or eruption skills, and with better chi management, the wizard class can perform his role better.

And no we don't ever need a 300% base damage on these AOE skills unless they cost 3.5 sparks and the damage formula is purely 300% base damage with no extra damage added. Even then there's no way to justify giving a ranged 12m AOE skill 300% base damage. Blade Tempest will just continue to scale even further from the other two skills with 600% base damage. So no thanks.

We want minor improvements not destroy whatever balance there is left in PVP and the role of the wizards shouldn't be change. Other skills need minor retouch as well but I'll talk about it next time.

XXHotXx - Morai

jspwione wrote: »

MS and BIDS needs a slight bump in skill effects and damage that's for sure.

MS should have am extra 20% base damage with a minor increase of 2k in fixed damage while having the stun duration last 7 seconds at least or making it a 100% chance instead of 95%. And if you really want paralyze effect then it will be a primal skill update that adds an extra skill effect. Giving it a 10-30% chance to paralyze for 6 seconds based on soulforce. Nothing game-breaking.

As for BIDS, the same extra 20% base damage with a minor increase of 2k in fixed damage while increasing the speed reduction to become 80% and making it 100% chance instead of 95%. Primal upgrade will improve the sage/demon effects to having extra 5 seconds duration for sage proc and as for demon, it could use a 30% chance to cost no sparks.

As for BT, while it doesn't lack damage and scale alot better at endgame, it should become 120% base damage as well but it should have zero extra fixed damage increment while the other two gets extra damage and improvements to skill effects. Primal upgrade for BT should increase the chance to proc sage/demon effects to 60% instead of 50%.

20% base damage improvement might not seem like much but it will scale slightly better towards endgame and make wizards incorporate more skills that increase their base damage more often, such as Manifest Virtue or eruption skills, and with better chi management, the wizard class can perform his role better.

And no we don't ever need a 300% base damage on these AOE skills unless they cost 3.5 sparks and the damage formula is purely 300% base damage with no extra damage added. Even then there's no way to justify giving a ranged 12m AOE skill 300% base damage. Blade Tempest will just continue to scale even further from the other two skills with 600% base damage. So no thanks.

We want minor improvements not destroy whatever balance there is left in PVP and the role of the wizards shouldn't be change. Other skills need minor retouch as well but I'll talk about it next time.

we need DPH, 120% base damage ulti isnt enough for a bypass, hell blade tempest being 200% base damage isnt enough already... assassins and seekers have 120% on their DPS skills lol xD

we need that 300%, we are the nuke class for excellence, player should fear bids like they used to in the past...

when bid skill was designed the skill was adding almost twice as much the base damage just from added skill damage (11k) ... now the skill adds like 1/6th of our base damage... do i need to say more?

its just not right for the slowest channelling+highest chi cost nuke in game

Angels_Age - Dreamweaver

If I could have one thing, and only one thing to upgrade wizzies, I'd ask that Undine Strike did the regular old debuff that it does, and then take away some def levels. Other than that, I'm pretty happy playing my wizard the way it is. Would I like a damage boost? Sure I would. Would I like a channeling boost? Sure I would. But, even if I don't get those things, I'm still going to play it, and I'm still going to have fun.

XXHotXx - Morai

Angels_Age - Dreamweaver wrote: »

If I could have one thing, and only one thing to upgrade wizzies, I'd ask that Undine Strike did the regular old debuff that it does, and then take away some def levels. Other than that, I'm pretty happy playing my wizard the way it is. Would I like a damage boost? Sure I would. Would I like a channeling boost? Sure I would. But, even if I don't get those things, I'm still going to play it, and I'm still going to have fun.

wizard is fun cause wizard was and is currently the hardest class to play at the moment,

i would be ok aswell with undine strike reducing the resistances to real 60% as it was in the past

cause basically now on a full purged target the resistances value is composed by base value + a 80% of that value as a passive buff

so when you apply undine you go modify just the base value which is nearly half of target's resistance value,
starting then from a super-high resistances base value if we are talking about endgame and considering how damage reduction scale respect resistances value,

undine strike is just few % debuff

:-(

$oul_Reaver - Archosaur

Before you start to QQ you must understand the nature of the wizards class and it being

*Wizards having slow channeling to compensate for its damage.
*slow chi gain.
*genie dependant.
*vonurable to ganks.

And as you all know future updates changed the nature of the class by increasing wizards chi gain through water shield and reducing chi costs on skills.

However, wizards slow channeling isn't viable or fair anymore due to new classes and passives.


Wizards have lost that legendary title of being called a WIZARD. Think of it, doesn't the so called (Wizard class) have or play the role of an ordinary mage. if they were really Wizards, why do many people not play the class?.

Why is thier AOE damage laughable?



TARGETS- (What makes the ''Wizard'' class less effective)

*Genie spark is or was OP, but was designed to counter cata barbs quickly and effectively. But when future updates nerf the wizards damage with genie spark, it doesnt put the class in a good situation.

*sacrifising 65 genie energy for genie spark, to debuff a target only to not get the kill is completely sad.

* wizards having Low DPH and slow channeling isn't fair as it is.

* Distance shrink can get you killed if you are immobalized

* what is a Manifest virtueb:chuckle


Below are suggestions on skills that i believe is essential for the ''wizard'' class


* ''Wizards'' having a new passive that reduces thier channeling time by a certain % and it being nothing lower than 20%.





SKILL 1
Upgraded distance shrink- (After Image)

* Concentrate on you inner KI and create an after image of yourself, teleporting 25 meteres on the ground
so quickly, it looks as if you are stationary.
* requires 10 chi

*has a 20% chance to cast a (Anti paralyze effect). making you immune to paralyze effects for 3 seconds.




SKILL 2

Upgraded Manifest virtue- ( MYSTICAL CLOAK ) Mode

* Raise your Palm in the air and disarm your weapon to Summon a Golden Mystical cloak that wraps around you for 30 seconds.

Cast time- 2 seconds
Channel time- 1 seconds

Cool down- 3 minutes


granting 3 of the following skills within 30 seconds of activation:



ELEMENTAL HURL

*Disarm your weapon for 3 seconds to Hurl a powerfull debuff of pure energy to all targets within a radious of 20 metres, granting a status damage effect to Mountain sieze and Black ice Dragon strike

*Granting an additional 100% of base magical damage.
*Causing Mountain sieze and Black ice Dragon strike skill to Bypass all enemies defenses

Cast time - 3 seconds
Channel time - 2 seconds

Cool Down - 5 seconds




AUDACITY

'' Those who attack you do so at thier own will''

* Once activated, your weapon will be disarmed for 2 seconds causing you to stand proudly.
* Granting a reduced phy damage taken effect to yourself by 5%
* Every small amount of melee damage has a 50% chance to double the reduced phy damage effect.
*can stack up to 20 times.

* Cast time - 1 seconds
* Channel time - 1 second

* Cool down - 15 seconds


(Overwrites Aquaflame armour effect)





INVIGORATE

''So long as you Master the teachings of the Grand wizards and feel the power of your mystical cloak, harness it And become invisible''.


* Become immune to all damage for 2 seconds causing you to stomp your weapon on the ground and invigorate all enemies within a 25 meter radius

* Causing a 2 second, 25 meter AOE paralyze effect to all enemies.


*This skill also grants a buff which gives its wielder a 40 % chance to inflict double damage status effect to all AOE fire damage skills

CD- 10 seconds.

XXHotXx - Morai

Kudos for the creativity but i dont even think this section is actually being read by any of the US devs, figure wanmei devs

but i am coming up with a new idea for the next wizard meta, i ll try to make a thread soon

XXHotXx - Morai

Here you go,

this is what i come up with:

http://mypers.pw/1.7/#130328

an almost full channelling build to allow wizard to DPS

it still saves p. res with the option to switch to channelling neck in case there aren't p. damage threats around

ofc wizard needs to be demon, because demon stone barrier and demon wellspring will become essential to have the sustained DPS


thoughts?

Toliman - Raging Tide

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

Here you go,

this is what i come up with:

http://mypers.pw/1.7/#130328

an almost full channelling build to allow wizard to DPS

it still saves p. res with the option to switch to channelling neck in case there aren't p. damage threats around

ofc wizard needs to be demon, because demon stone barrier and demon wellspring will become essential to have the sustained DPS


thoughts?

Cheap to view, but expensive to get.

It is good build, of course, with good damage output and dps for hardcore players of pwi.

XXHotXx - Morai

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

Cheap to view, but expensive to get.

It is good build, of course, with good damage output and dps for hardcore players of pwi.

what bothers me is with even the magic ring i am far to match psychics DPS, so i need to sacrifice woa cape and g16 helmet for channelling options

might even need to sacrifice weapon shards...

XXHotXx - Morai

i am halfway through building the new meta, and its un****ingbelievable

the DPS i can dish out with demon wellspring + moon embrace and channelling cape is ludicrous

it's almost twice as much DPS, if i switch the necklace too i am close to no-channelling skills (80% chann), but switching necklace exposes you to oneshots...

but in mass pvp hardly you get punished for it soo its good

i need to try it out some more but so far (testing this mainly in mass open pk), i am getting a positive feedback from this build

Toliman - Raging Tide

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

i am halfway through building the new meta, and its un****ingbelievable

the DPS i can dish out with demon wellspring + moon embrace and channelling cape is ludicrous

it's almost twice as much DPS, if i switch the necklace too i am close to no-channelling skills (80% chann), but switching necklace exposes you to oneshots...

but in mass pvp hardly you get punished for it soo its good

i need to try it out some more but so far (testing this mainly in mass open pk), i am getting a positive feedback from this build

Here is graph of Damage increase dependent from channeling for Pyrogram - up to [100%+142%] = 242% total dps with increase from -channeling - just to show calculation results at graphical form.

Click it to see

For Divine Pyrogram even more.

P.S.
Quoted it (link and result of calculation) from my own post made 06-21-2011, 12:48 AM

XXHotXx - Morai

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

Here is graph of Damage increase dependent from channeling for Pyrogram - up to [100%+142%] = 242% total dps with increase from -channeling - just to show calculation results at graphical form.

Click it to see

For Divine Pyrogram even more.

P.S.
Quoted it (link and result of calculation) from my own post made 06-21-2011, 12:48 AM

well we need to sort a good DPS chain, cause cooldowns dont allow to cycle DPS skills

id say undine frozen flame wellspring gush pyro crown sand gush pyro stone

jspwione

XXHotXx - Morai wrote: »

we need DPH, 120% base damage ulti isnt enough for a bypass, hell blade tempest being 200% base damage isnt enough already... assassins and seekers have 120% on their DPS skills lol xD

we need that 300%, we are the nuke class for excellence, player should fear bids like they used to in the past...

when bid skill was designed the skill was adding almost twice as much the base damage just from added skill damage (11k) ... now the skill adds like 1/6th of our base damage... do i need to say more?

its just not right for the slowest channelling+highest chi cost nuke in game

They're not 'ulti's btw, they're just 3 different AoE skills that costs 2 spark because they do have some of the best damage formula, they do affect 12m around the target and do inflict types of status effects or have some 'speciality' about it for instance, BT being fire and physical damage etc.

Bringing up bypassing charm again? Are you maxed leveled with full deity stone build and sixcandleflame card set or six S cards?? If not, just get it in your head you shouldn't be able to bypass most players and actually learn to play a role that is actually effective, instead of wasting chi, genie and expose yourself and feel like just because you're R999 with +12 weapon you need to be able to bypass someone's charm even if they are just +10 defensively.

Even if you were maxed out and deity stone build with an elite set of cards, you still shouldn't be able to bypass someone's charm who is built as well as you but leaning more on the defensive side with JoSD build. Just talking about straight up damage, it's not even gonna happen often and we're not even talking about defensive abilities coming into play.

Wizards need some minor tweaks that's only because they don't have the flexibility to play many roles effectively and are easily countered much like archers. And it requires alot of discipline, awareness and decision making simultaneously to play a role effectively, even harder if you're not well-geared for a DD.

Archers have more skills to prevent getting targeted in PK but many still complain about not having enough survival skills because they still don't adapt their play-style to play a role effectively even if they know the limitations of their class it's pointless to just know it. Just like people who die because of jaywalking, they sure as hell know they're not faster than an automobile and yet they still try to jaywalk in busy roads.

XXHotXx - Morai

jspwione wrote: »

They're not 'ulti's btw, they're just 3 different AoE skills that costs 2 spark because they do have some of the best damage formula, they do affect 12m around the target and do inflict types of status effects or have some 'speciality' about it for instance, BT being fire and physical damage etc.

Costing 2 sparks because they are supposed to have the highest DPH skill formula means they actually need to dish out the highest DPH, but they actually dont


Bringing up bypassing charm again? Are you maxed leveled with full deity stone build and sixcandleflame card set or six S cards?? If not, just get it in your head you shouldn't be able to bypass most players and actually learn to play a role that is actually effective, instead of wasting chi, genie and expose yourself and feel like just because you're R999 with +12 weapon you need to be able to bypass someone's charm even if they are just +10 defensively.

Wizard isn't a DPS class, isn't a support class, isn't a shotcaller\tank class, so what's wizard role, absorb\lure enemy focus? Any class can do that and in a better way


Even if you were maxed out and deity stone build with an elite set of cards, you still shouldn't be able to bypass someone's charm who is built as well as you but leaning more on the defensive side with JoSD build. Just talking about straight up damage, it's not even gonna happen often and we're not even talking about defensive abilities coming into play.

I am The DPH class, i am on a Glass cannon build and i am not supposed to bypass someone? b:chuckle

Wizards need some minor tweaks that's only because they don't have the flexibility to play many roles effectively and are easily countered much like archers. And it requires alot of discipline, awareness and decision making simultaneously to play a role effectively, even harder if you're not well-geared for a DD.

Indeed, wizard role is offtank DPH DD class, but atm other Arcane classes actually outtank us and pretty much all other classes outDPH us (not to mention outDPS)

Archers have more skills to prevent getting targeted in PK but many still complain about not having enough survival skills because they still don't adapt their play-style to play a role effectively even if they know the limitations of their class it's pointless to just know it. Just like people who die because of jaywalking, they sure as hell know they're not faster than an automobile and yet they still try to jaywalk in busy roads.

Archers don't have the skillset to survive and be relevant in the current meta

in light blue