You are a disgrace.

bloodedone87

I watched today a PW PVP video that reminded me why I chosed playing on PVE server and why I dislake that pk mode.
Main reason is that you cant turn pk mode off when you want. You must stay 10 hours in that mode and hide in SZ.
But if you stay in SZ you will be called a coward so if you dont want to be called that way you must go out of SZ. But if you go out of SZ you must not go AFK, you must be in alert all time, **** you cant even go to pee.
Why?
Cause it will always be that person that will kill you.
But wait that person wont chalenge you. He wont give you the change to get ready for the fight. No. he will catch you offguard, sometimes when you are unbuffed and he is full buffed. Sometimes when you are questing. Sometimes is a sin that will go in shadow mode and catch his victim by surprise. But it doesnt matter if its a sin or not. Doing such thing you are a disgrace.
Disgrace you are also when you attack by surprise and kill someone that is weaker in gear than you.Ya, im talking about you R9rr+12 that go and kill those T2 or TT99 ones just because you can They just wanted to have a little pk fun between them but you had to go and destroy their fun just cause you are stronger than them.

About the video i seen. Sadly I cant link the video cause this will be naming and shaming but I describe what it was about.
An r9rr sin in pk mode that killed his enemy catching them by surprise. Going always in shadow mode, attacking his victims when they least expected.
I dont care how good you are actually but if you need to catch them by surprise doesnt that show you have no confidence in yourself.
And if you want to prove how good you are chalenge your enemy. Give him the change to prepare for fight.
Also this post is about those that chalenge a person 1vs 1 and when they are defeated they call their friends and gank the person and kill that person. You are also a disgrace. You lost .Accept your defeat and go and train to become better and next time maybe you will be the one who will emerge victorious.Killing him with you friends wont change the fact that you are weaker than him.
I almost forgot about those weak in gears and weak in experience ones that go in a pk fight with end game players and players that have more knowledge about pk than them. And when they are killed they start their rage on WC that they got defeated by persons that were stronger and smarter than them. Starting to insult that person for defeating you show that you are a disgrace.

This was just my opinion about pk in PW. No meant to insult anyone. But if you felt insulted probably you do those things I have mentioned above.
If you do I believe is time to change your attitude.
b:bye

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Sorry, but that's always been the PvE thing since 2008. Most of the high levels were perma-pk set, and those that weren't would always show up at DT for an all out kill-fest. It's why radar focus was so important while mindlessly grinding away on mobs; it was the only way to know when a gank was coming.

Honestly, as long as it isn't a 2 on 1 or something, it's all good. Won't say one class is more cheese **** than another for stealth abuse, but if someone isn't paying attention to their radar at all times while pk set, and they get killed by a non-stealth class; it's their fault. You never pk set without dolls, without always paying attention outside of SZ, and must always have whatever you need to survive and fight back. That's the way it's always been, and if you can't deal with that you really need to go blue and stay blue. And join events like DT and such that allow the optional pk only when you absolutely want it as your source of pk fun.

bloodedone87

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Sorry, but that's always been the PvE thing since 2008. Most of the high levels were perma-pk set, and those that weren't would always show up at DT for an all out kill-fest. It's why radar focus was so important while mindlessly grinding away on mobs; it was the only way to know when a gank was coming.

Honestly, as long as it isn't a 2 on 1 or something, it's all good. Won't say one class is more cheese **** than another for stealth abuse, but if someone isn't paying attention to their radar at all times while pk set, and they get killed by a non-stealth class; it's their fault. You never pk set without dolls, without always paying attention outside of SZ, and must always have whatever you need to survive and fight back. That's the way it's always been, and if you can't deal with that you really need to go blue and stay blue. And join events like DT and such that allow the optional pk only when you absolutely want it as your source of pk fun.

But sometimes things happens in real life that can make the player go afk while its not is safe zone with pk mode turn on.Not all players can be in alert all time.
I dont dislake pvp like NW or TW or other pvp events. But I dislike pk in this game.That why I dont do it. It is so unfair and PW doesnt do anything to change it. Oh wait.. they dont do alot of things they should do about this game.
And I dont agree with the if you cant deal with that stay blue.
Why low lvls and low geared players cant have a pk fun between them with no high lvl to ruin that. Why sometimes it has to be that R9rr player that goes and kill them just because he can?

Evryn - Morai

So then you die and press respawn. What's the problem with that, aside from a little charmrape? If you can't take that, you shouldn't be in PK mode to begin with.

Also, there's a trick to go on PK mode without the stand-down timer that many folks use:
- Go into Warsong with a friend.
- Stand near Ginring (the NPC to start warsong with)
- Duel your friend. Use an AOE.
- You'll hit the NPC and become pink as a result.
- Log off to the character select screen and back on.
- You're in PK mode (white) and can immediately switch back to PK protection (no timer).

sjampie

I don't see any problem with the gameplay others use. However, if someone thinks he's a pro when it comes on PK on PvE server I think it's only a pro in spending dollars. b:chuckle

For me: have a toon on PvP server (so always in PK mode) and a toon on PvE that is in PK mode since level 30 so can be turned off if I want it. But I don't care for that toon.

Funniest thing of all: the toon on PvE isn't a high level toon (level 87), doesn't use any high level armor or weapon and most of the time only people with G16+ or R9RR+12 want to kill him, meaning a 1-shot or 'instant death' for me. I'm not worried about that but it shows people on that server only want to duel if they know they can win. Even when I'm about to help someone with some kind of quest.

My plans for the PvE toon: keep leveling him but don't give any high level armor. I just want him to die a lot when I'm not doing some bored "kill 70 mobs" quests or while I have a coffee-break. Having one right now lol... toon should probably be dead while writing this reply.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

sjampie wrote: »

I don't see any problem with the gameplay others use. However, if someone thinks he's a pro when it comes on PK on PvE server I think it's only a pro in spending dollars. b:chuckle

For me: have a toon on PvP server (so always in PK mode) and a toon on PvE that is in PK mode since level 30 so can be turned off if I want it. But I don't care for that toon.

Funniest thing of all: the toon on PvE isn't a high level toon (level 87), doesn't use any high level armor or weapon and most of the time only people with G16+ or R9RR+12 want to kill him, meaning a 1-shot or 'instant death' for me. I'm not worried about that but it shows people on that server only want to duel if they know they can win. Even when I'm about to help someone with some kind of quest.

My plans for the PvE toon: keep leveling him but don't give any high level armor. I just want him to die a lot when I'm not doing some bored "kill 70 mobs" quests or while I have a coffee-break. Having one right now lol... toon should probably be dead while writing this reply.

That's okay, during 2008/2009 the PvP server "experts" were a joke anyways. You had a few with a clue, but so many examples of stupid the idea that pvp servers were pro was pathetic. You had barbs thinking -50% dmg in cat form meant they did half damage, so they were too stupid to divide by 2 and realize the damage they were seeing wasn't that.

You had two BMs who believed they knew everything, Lyndura and Complexxity, both of whom were wrong about everything. And pro BMs on pvp servers were the miss everything sage pray HF hits and BR right after level of skill. You had everyone other than Devoted that swore vit stones were better than DoD/JoSD, people who didn't understand why or where X skill could be useful, didn't understand perma-spark until packs came out, etc.

The list goes on. To me, it just always seemed like one set of window-lickers going against another, with only a few examples of not sucking. And if you really want to, you can go back and read Lost City posts from back then, and see exactly what I'm talking about. I mean holy ****, they didn't even understand CCing or after-cast canceling; and if you can't use those in PvP, you suck. Because both boosted over-all damage, and after-cast canceling is still allowed in game.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

sjampie wrote: »

I don't see any problem with the gameplay others use. However, if someone thinks he's a pro when it comes on PK on PvE server I think it's only a pro in spending dollars. b:chuckle

For me: have a toon on PvP server (so always in PK mode) and a toon on PvE that is in PK mode since level 30 so can be turned off if I want it. But I don't care for that toon.

Funniest thing of all: the toon on PvE isn't a high level toon (level 87), doesn't use any high level armor or weapon and most of the time only people with G16+ or R9RR+12 want to kill him, meaning a 1-shot or 'instant death' for me. I'm not worried about that but it shows people on that server only want to duel if they know they can win. Even when I'm about to help someone with some kind of quest.

My plans for the PvE toon: keep leveling him but don't give any high level armor. I just want him to die a lot when I'm not doing some bored "kill 70 mobs" quests or while I have a coffee-break. Having one right now lol... toon should probably be dead while writing this reply.

>your face when best cleric pvp'er was on a PvE server
Please post your face when. b:avoid

XXHotXx - Morai

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

>your face when best cleric pvp'er was on a PvE server
Please post your face when. b:avoid

on my server endgame clerics go mass pvp on violet dance :-(

angellicdeity

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

That's okay, during 2008/2009 the PvP server "experts" were a joke anyways. You had a few with a clue, but so many examples of stupid the idea that pvp servers were pro was pathetic. You had barbs thinking -50% dmg in cat form meant they did half damage, so they were too stupid to divide by 2 and realize the damage they were seeing wasn't that.

You had two BMs who believed they knew everything, Lyndura and Complexxity, both of whom were wrong about everything. And pro BMs on pvp servers were the miss everything sage pray HF hits and BR right after level of skill. You had everyone other than Devoted that swore vit stones were better than DoD/JoSD, people who didn't understand why or where X skill could be useful, didn't understand perma-spark until packs came out, etc.

The list goes on. To me, it just always seemed like one set of window-lickers going against another, with only a few examples of not sucking. And if you really want to, you can go back and read Lost City posts from back then, and see exactly what I'm talking about. I mean holy ****, they didn't even understand CCing or after-cast canceling; and if you can't use those in PvP, you suck. Because both boosted over-all damage, and after-cast canceling is still allowed in game.

This post sounds bitter.

Back in 2008/2009 gear was different. Even in 2010 and 2011 gear was substantially different. TW was fought differently. Squads were smaller. Nobody was running around with a permanent cleric buff. Nobody was sporting gear that could zerk-crit. A Catabarb was someone who had at least 10K HP.

If you really do go back and read the posts they were pretty much spot on for characters with pools of 4K-8K HP. Back then vit-stones made much more sense because no character was hitting diminishing returns on magic resistences and physical defence. The best gear in game was a CV95 gold weapon.

PvP on the PvP servers were battles back then) - not skirmishes like the PvE server duels. We're talking about 15+ vs 15+ people. The strategies you use when you can focus fire are a lot different than the strategies you use in 1 on 1 duels.

Now in 2015 the formula has changed. Jades and Deity stones actually make a whole lot of sense given most end-game characters hit the diminishing return on physical/magical resistances. A TW-grade archer sports 30K+ HP full buffed. A TW-grade sin can dish out 20K zerk-crits. A TW-cata-grade barbarian sports at least 60K HP. Paralyze goes through most forms of anti-stun. Sage Tidal makes you nearly unstoppable and a fully-decked out Assassin.

The gear has changed how we fight. With the ability to pretty much 1-shot eachother or deal massive quantities of damage it has become more important to CC. TW is played much differently.


But back to the main topic of discussion. I find it fascinating how suddenly as soon as you gear up your character on a PvE server it becomes desirable to kill anything you can to test it out. I always wondered if such people could transfer to Lost City or Harshlands, would they? And would they regret their decision after erroneously picking fights with everyone?

Sylvae - Sanctuary

angellicdeity wrote: »

This post sounds bitter.

Back in 2008/2009 gear was different. Even in 2010 and 2011 gear was substantially different. TW was fought differently. Squads were smaller. Nobody was running around with a permanent cleric buff. Nobody was sporting gear that could zerk-crit. A Catabarb was someone who had at least 10K HP.

If you really do go back and read the posts they were pretty much spot on for characters with pools of 4K-8K HP. Back then vit-stones made much more sense because no character was hitting diminishing returns on magic resistences and physical defence. The best gear in game was a CV95 gold weapon.

PvP on the PvP servers were battles back then) - not skirmishes like the PvE server duels. We're talking about 15+ vs 15+ people. The strategies you use when you can focus fire are a lot different than the strategies you use in 1 on 1 duels.

Now in 2015 the formula has changed. Jades and Deity stones actually make a whole lot of sense given most end-game characters hit the diminishing return on physical/magical resistances. A TW-grade archer sports 30K+ HP full buffed. A TW-grade sin can dish out 20K zerk-crits. A TW-cata-grade barbarian sports at least 60K HP. Paralyze goes through most forms of anti-stun. Sage Tidal makes you nearly unstoppable and a fully-decked out Assassin.

The gear has changed how we fight. With the ability to pretty much 1-shot eachother or deal massive quantities of damage it has become more important to CC. TW is played much differently.


But back to the main topic of discussion. I find it fascinating how suddenly as soon as you gear up your character on a PvE server it becomes desirable to kill anything you can to test it out. I always wondered if such people could transfer to Lost City or Harshlands, would they? And would they regret their decision after erroneously picking fights with everyone?

No, just pointing out the obvious lack of credibility. Because the many benefits of DoD/JoSD were pointed out, and the reasons why; a big one being the more end game it became, the more beneficial they were. This was in addition to amping healing.

The people arguing against that were PvP servers. The people completely wrong about BM class and barb class; were PvP server. And every single one of them swore they knew more than everyone else, and that everyone who was right wasn't just because they were PvE. And PvP server people were agreeing with them.

Everyone knows better now. And while there are some skilled on PvP server, we also saw the videos. That showed how suck *** the people being killed were. Which is kind of the issue. If PvP server was so pro, why were so many being killed doing the worst possible things, showing no skill in the videos? And these were the big skirmishes.

With a lot of the higher tactics neglected it might seem better and more even; but you're leaving out the higher level tactics. Which by itself, would negate any attempt to sound more skilled or knowledgeable about PvP. Because if they were more skilled, they should have been schooling the PvE server people about all aspects of PvP. And when you've got entire classes played wrong for a year+, then no; you don't have a legitimate claim to being more skilled.

angellicdeity

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

No, just pointing out the obvious lack of credibility. Because the many benefits of DoD/JoSD were pointed out, and the reasons why; a big one being the more end game it became, the more beneficial they were. This was in addition to amping healing.

The people arguing against that were PvP servers. The people completely wrong about BM class and barb class; were PvP server. And every single one of them swore they knew more than everyone else, and that everyone who was right wasn't just because they were PvE. And PvP server people were agreeing with them.

Everyone knows better now. And while there are some skilled on PvP server, we also saw the videos. That showed how suck *** the people being killed were. Which is kind of the issue. If PvP server was so pro, why were so many being killed doing the worst possible things, showing no skill in the videos? And these were the big skirmishes.

With a lot of the higher tactics neglected it might seem better and more even; but you're leaving out the higher level tactics. Which by itself, would negate any attempt to sound more skilled or knowledgeable about PvP. Because if they were more skilled, they should have been schooling the PvE server people about all aspects of PvP. And when you've got entire classes played wrong for a year+, then no; you don't have a legitimate claim to being more skilled.

Again, sounding bitter. There is no such thing as "Pro" - nobody is making a profession out of this game. The people on PvP servers are more experienced by virtue of having more opportunities to PvP.

Just because someone is on a PvP server does not make them better than other players on PvE servers. Similarly being on a PvE server does not mean you know how to PvE better than people on PvP servers.

Videos can show a lot or they can deceive the naive. If you have ever been on a PvP server you would have understood that you need to take every video, post, world-chat comment with a grain of salt. The all-out war between factions results in name-calling, call-outs, and in general anything that makes eachother look bad. I'm not surprised that opponents look bad in the videos. They're purposely showing a handful of select clips designed to make their hated enemies look like complete baddies at playing their character.


Anyways, I think you'll find a lot of opinions change if you were to actually play on the PvP servers. I play on both PvE and PvP servers, and the difference between the two is clearly highlighted in the way you address "good vs bad". You can talk how-ever much you want to about how bad the PvP players are based off of videos and forum posts. But at the end of the day that is all talk. On the PvP servers you show you're better by fighting and winning (actions speak louder than words).

There is no ambiguity over who is better.


There is something oddly satisfying about seeing someone call someone a baddie in world-chat or boasting about how good they are, to be followed up by a "1v1 north arch?" request.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Except there are clear cut cases where on videos they do something that is completely unintelligent no matter what the situation. You can argue chi concerns and what not, but when someone knows a class really well it is easy enough to say what you'd do in a situation. For me, BMs and clerics were my big knowledge points, and I'd see high level BMs just dumb there way through air battles like crazy in those videos.

And I can state categorically, that what they were doing was awful no matter what the situation was. Especially since the camera had a great angle. They were approaching at a straight shot at a downward angle (stupid because they should have dropped to match the archer to bring in the possibility of leaps to stagger the timing), and actually went in for RotP. On an archer.

There is absolutely no point in time that it would be anything but stupid, that's not even bringing the likelihood of vit axe BR badness that likely was going on as well. And there are multiple instances of such happening on the videos going on.

And again, you sound bitter. So let your little internet cliché argue this one, and they can go off and have fun with each other. Because you are showing the same type of bitterness you claim by even posting trying to refute, while ignoring the meat of conversation. No idea why anyone even posts dumb things like that. That's not bitter calling it dumb, it's just pointing out my opinion on such a worthless sentiment that is hypocritical at best.

What it comes down to is where the knowledge utilized in PvP most comes from. Experience doesn't matter much, if the playing all around is bad. You normalize to your environment. And a lot of mediocre, doesn't turn it to gold. It just means being really good at dealing with mediocre.

Eruvanda - Dreamweaver

Welcome to Perfect World b:victory b:chuckle

QueNa - Sanctuary

Oh jolly, look it's that old argument again! PvP players are better just because they are on a PvP server!

There's a group of friends PvPers from sanctuary who borrowed their lost city friends toons and went to PvP. Rekt people on lost but they'll probably won't admit they were beaten by people from PvE server lol.

PvP players more experienced? Not always. Someone can play 5 years on a PvP server and still be mediocre cause they think they are good.. you know, PvP server player and all. And then someone PvPs for 1-2 years and be a great PvPer because... hey they bothered to learn! Watched videos, read threads, made research, practiced a lot, tried to learn!

Pretty sure there's a number of PvP server players that watch videos and read threads from PvE players and learn from them but they'll never admit it. Aeliah is a good example.

XXHotXx - Morai

angellicdeity wrote: »

This post sounds bitter.

Back in 2008/2009 gear was different. Even in 2010 and 2011 gear was substantially different. TW was fought differently. Squads were smaller. Nobody was running around with a permanent cleric buff. Nobody was sporting gear that could zerk-crit. A Catabarb was someone who had at least 10K HP.

If you really do go back and read the posts they were pretty much spot on for characters with pools of 4K-8K HP. Back then vit-stones made much more sense because no character was hitting diminishing returns on magic resistences and physical defence. The best gear in game was a CV95 gold weapon.

PvP on the PvP servers were battles back then) - not skirmishes like the PvE server duels. We're talking about 15+ vs 15+ people. The strategies you use when you can focus fire are a lot different than the strategies you use in 1 on 1 duels.

Now in 2015 the formula has changed. Jades and Deity stones actually make a whole lot of sense given most end-game characters hit the diminishing return on physical/magical resistances. A TW-grade archer sports 30K+ HP full buffed. A TW-grade sin can dish out 20K zerk-crits. A TW-cata-grade barbarian sports at least 60K HP. Paralyze goes through most forms of anti-stun. Sage Tidal makes you nearly unstoppable and a fully-decked out Assassin.

The gear has changed how we fight. With the ability to pretty much 1-shot eachother or deal massive quantities of damage it has become more important to CC. TW is played much differently.


But back to the main topic of discussion. I find it fascinating how suddenly as soon as you gear up your character on a PvE server it becomes desirable to kill anything you can to test it out. I always wondered if such people could transfer to Lost City or Harshlands, would they? And would they regret their decision after erroneously picking fights with everyone?

Back in time an assassin\bm\archer could aps you down in a matter of 2-3 seconds, i recall one of the first tws i ever did on my sin, where i solo apsed down a cata squad of 4 cata barbs

Back in time pvp was even more "skirmishes" than what we have currently, you really can't see how the damage we gotten didnt scale AT ALL with the huge amount of resistances we received from last updates (thanks to non-affordable S card sets)

"The ability to oneshot eachother"
wait what? honestly at current retail-PWI endgame and especially with the ability to have full buffs almost permanently up, who oneshots who?
demon venos when they proc ironwood?

I play a PvE server i played and sometimes play PvP servers with my friends and hardly we lose battles, and when we do its always a good fight,

you can't really make two "baskets" like this, its not PvE players bad, PvP players good

there is who is good from PvE servers and there is who is bad from PvP ones

Zoldi - Morai

Still considering if a player is good or not in PVP just by checking on which kind of server he plays ? In 2015, seriously ?

I remember when I used to play on a PVP server (PW-MY). You indeed have to be more focused everytime (checking mini-map, pressing T to know who is around, getting ready if that guy decide to attack you). But... you can also don't care and just go elsewhere when you got killed.
You can also almost never do any quest in the open world (talking about fc period though, not that true anymore, especially with Morai and Primal).

Pking at west or silver-pool don't give you a lot more experience than TW or NW. So what about a guy who did hundred of TW and NW on a PVE server ? Compared to that guy who played 6 month on a PVP server and got reckt everyday by people outgearing him ?

What PVP server can bring is just more adrenaline while questing. This is not what will decide if a veteran player is experienced in PVP or not...

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver

Such generalisations. Here's one for you PvP server keyboard warriors.

The players I see from PvP servers posting trollbait feel the need to validate themselves by coming on the forums and calling all PvE server players nabs, because they don't receive this much needed self validation in game due to being stuck in the shadow of the actual good players on their servers, and most likely get ggrekt any time they dare step out of SZ.

The actual good players from PvP servers are playing the game and don't give a fuark about the forums as we constantly see from server-type polls.

Though I sincerely hope your e-peen stroking session provided you with such validation. Now that you have succeeded in making yourself look like a complete **** please go back to your PvP server and continue hiding in SZ wishing you were a PvP god.

Hmm, generalisations are pretty fun. xD

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

DarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Such generalisations. Here's one for you PvP server keyboard warriors.

The players I see from PvP servers posting trollbait feel the need to validate themselves by coming on the forums and calling all PvE server players nabs, because they don't receive this much needed self validation in game due to being stuck in the shadow of the actual good players on their servers, and most likely get ggrekt any time they dare step out of SZ.

The actual good players from PvP servers are playing the game and don't give a fuark about the forums as we constantly see from server-type polls.

Though I sincerely hope your e-peen stroking session provided you with such validation. Now that you have succeeded in making yourself look like a complete **** please go back to your PvP server and continue hiding in SZ wishing you were a PvP god.

Hmm, generalisations are pretty fun. xD

Stop reading my mind GG.

angellicdeity

I don't log into the forums much, but when I do, it seems that people lack reading comprehension ability.

All you guys did was show how butthurt you are about being perceived as inferior when I merely said PvP servers are more experienced - even after saying experience doesn't necessarily make you better (in a game where gear and preparedness mean everything - you can have 3 years of PvP experience under your belt that means nothing if you arent +12 R9RR with S-card sets). Is it really hard to accept that they get more opportunities to practice PvP because they are always white-named?

Good Job at showing your inferiority complex.

bloodedone87

How this thread derailed so much?

One more thing I hate about some PK players:

They fight 5-10 minutes.
They have a 2-3 hours drama in WC.
Its ****ing anoying. You cannot try to sell something. You cannot try to gather a squad.
No one will see you due to the PK drama in WC.

QueNa - Sanctuary

angellicdeity wrote: »

I don't log into the forums much, but when I do, it seems that people lack reading comprehension ability.

All you guys did was show how butthurt you are about being perceived as inferior when I merely said PvP servers are more experienced - even after saying experience doesn't necessarily make you better (in a game where gear and preparedness mean everything - you can have 3 years of PvP experience under your belt that means nothing if you arent +12 R9RR with S-card sets). Is it really hard to accept that they get more opportunities to practice PvP because they are always white-named?

Good Job at showing your inferiority complex.

Kool. Then what exactly is the point of your posts? Cause they pretty much imply PvP > PvE servers whether you intended it or not.

Zoldi - Morai

angellicdeity wrote: »

*Is it really hard to accept that they get more opportunities to practice PvP because they are always white-named?

This is hard because this is simply not true...

1) You can be always white (or red) named on a PVE server, even though you will meet less people that are also in pk-mode.
2) You can be white-named on a PVP server but never pk in open world.
3) Some people are always ready for some pk but don't have enough time (or opportunity) to do more than 2hours a week while some blue named people can do 4hours of NW and 6h of TW every week, 52 weeks a year..