Deltas, do people not bother with its mechanics anymore?

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Why does BM as leader give any more beans than any other squad make up?

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SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

I put a guide together a long time ago, but it wasn't much later that everyone was doing spawn runs. I can practically duo the instance now with my Seeker and Cleric.

Oh, and here's my guide...
Rebirth Delta Guide Reborn

war34child

sontzu wrote: »

You haven't seen my recipe for beans on toast...

It may not; I was told it does, but since no-one wants to run gv at eye any more it's hard to test

Only a squad-leading BM was able to speak with the NPC to get the quests (= let the waves start). They changed this requirement years ago. While you still need a rainbow squad to be able to speak with the NPC (to get extra beans), you don't need a BM to get quests anymore.

Btw., 4-5 years ago there were still more squads which failed at 3rd wave than squads which passed it. We had alot of ppl which didn't know anything about their class back this time. Most ppl never completed culti100 for their toons, even not for their main character. And the game wasn't that complex at 1st few years... No genies, just 6 classes, no morai skills, just a few keys for every class (alot of the original skills are useless anyway), most BMs had only dual axes.

Most clerics had no clue what you are talking about when you was asking for purify (you don't "need" it for questing...). Most barbs had no idea that they have skills to get aggro... (you don't "need" it for questing...).
Venos just CSed their herc for god-mode pve and nix for god-mode pvp (nixes 1-2-shooted almost everyone, just read the old endless threads about this subject..).

Most arcane classes had crappy gear (I'd say 90% of Venos had just NPC gear) and got 1-shooted by every mob in any instance. Even lvl 80s and 90s died in FB19s and FB29s.
Just because they were not very smart. A normal FB51 took 3-4h, my 1st FB69 took 7h (we had no idea how to kill polearm, even the "best players" on server in biggest faction had no clue lol - and yup, instances resetted after 8h at this time :P).

When equipment did become better, most players of arcane classes were most stupid again. Unsharded **** gear but high-end, high-refined weapon were very common. Guess who always got aggro and perma-died in every gv...

When ppl say that the "old population" was much smarter or skilled than the new one I'm always laughing.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

war34child wrote: »

Btw., 4-5 years ago there were still more squads which failed at 3rd wave than squads which passed it.

That would be because 4-5 years ago was when the generation of suck began. We're talking about mid-2009, when refines were +2 and you were skilled or failed. Barbs had to get their skills right, have the right apoth, and know exactly what wave and stage certain mobs would spawn, or it would be a wipe.

Did a lot of squads fail? Yep; those were the junk squads. Because when you played your class well in there, you'd get friend invites from people who regularly ran it. And everyone went to their friend list before going to guild chat, and if guild chat failed only then would people WC for a fill in. And that was for usually 2 at most, if 3 or more were needed, people just waited.

That's why it seemed so many squads failed; no one wanted to do a delta with people who had no clue and weren't minimum geared for it. There'd be AA with ele neck and belt and 3k health whining they couldn't get a group. That's because they couldn't contribute jack to the run, and wouldn't be allowed. The groups they could get to go with them, would obviously fail.

But that was when everyone had to pull their weight, or a run could fail. It's long past, and once packs came out the skill requirement immediately lessened, and continued to fall since that day.

We fondly remember the bean times, because that was when the whole group was required to play at a minimum level of competence, and it was enjoyable playing with people who weren't awful. Gamma/Delta runs, were like taking a break from the bad that was in the game. It wasn't work, it was fun.

EDIT: Holy ****, missed this gem of badness by just answering the first part

war34child wrote: »

Most clerics had no clue what you are talking about when you was asking for purify (you don't "need" it for questing...). Most barbs had no idea that they have skills to get aggro... (you don't "need" it for questing

A normal FB51 took 3-4h, my 1st FB69 took 7h (we had no idea how to kill polearm, even the "best players" on server in biggest faction had no clue lol - and yup, instances resetted after 8h at this time :P).

When ppl say that the "old population" was much smarter or skilled than the new one I'm always laughing.

Only reason FB51 would take a while, is for people forgetting which mob needed to be killed to open the doors that existed at the time. If they did, it was a matter of keeping squishies out of the way, and having the well-geared taking out Rankar and myriad; it did not take that long.

And FB69 taking that long? Don't even use the phrase "best players" in such a situation. We had a lvl 67 barb, bm, 2 archers, 2 clerics, highest level was 71. We mowed it down. When we got to the large fungus critters, we'd count down in team chat and unleash dual tempests and dual BoAs; mobs drop in no time. I had been farming poison mobs since ancient evil outside fb29, and most clerics also farmed poison mobs. We knew purify.

I don't think an unwined FB69 culti took us even two hours, and we had no high levels to help with it; none existed. All except barb were in the top 10 for highest levels, so all crafted gear, armor, apoths, etc had to be self-supplied. And it was easy. Sinanju and I fought over who could get the fastest purify off on the barb for fun even.

So if your "best on server" took 7 hours, you all were awful. Especially if you had higher gear or level than what we were working with. So no idea which old population you're talking about, but it sure as heck has nothing to do with Sanctuary server.

seitori

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No one does that way anymore. Spawn point takes much less time. Gear has passed the need for auras. Sounds like you had a crappy squad.

Yep... +1 to that which is above ^^ ...It does sound like it was a lame duck squad you ended up with...b:thanks

BlastFlare - Dreamweaver

b:laugh Oh I remember the old school delta runs. Now days my BM can duo it with a Cleric/Mystic on the spawn point. I think it's the cards, numas, and titles that really boosted the over all potential to run it. b:surrender I am not even full G16 yet lol.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

bloodedone87 wrote: »

And if you are able to kill all mobs at spawn point why should you waste time doing all that you ppl said you were doing in the past?

Because it was fun back then.... these days I don't even bother with Delta because I find it extremely boring. It was my favorite thing to do back when it was challenging and all of those different components were required to have a successful run.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Ah yes

Running around gathering beans for 4 hours, the height of skill.

Seriously I've never had a full "classic" delta without 6 ****faced drunks on the party because holy balls its BORING.

Delta at spawn is dead because no coin drops and obviously you cant just sell tome fragments, that would make sense. Delta at eye is dead because delta at eye is distilled suffering

TL:DR: People are stupid

Eoria - Harshlands

Full Delta at eye is literally the only instance boring enough that I actually fell asleep during it once and made squad fail. b:surrender

SerenityCNB - Dreamweaver

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Full Delta at eye is literally the only instance boring enough that I actually fell asleep during it once and made squad fail. b:surrender

I won't do full delta without a mp charm for this reason. I too have fallen asleep during a full delta at God's Eye. I managed to wake up just as BB dropped, quickly healed and got it back up again...then blamed lag... b:surrenderb:laugh

It's for this reason that I started talking and joking in delta squads more...to keep myself awake.

But looking back on it, I do prefer normal delta. SP is faster, true enough...but normal is better from my perspective, as a cleric that'll probably be stuck in BB for 90% of the time. Helps in all categories, specifically mp. Last time I ran a full delta was probably for when I hit celestial sage years ago. I'll probably have to again soon, to help my real life best friends....one is also a cleric, so I may not be in BB this time.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

pwi DOES have a wiki >> in which the aura mechanics and beans n **** can be found in the alpha beta gamma links.
I remember back before when we learned it, the TT90 gear delta days, we had to search the net on the chinese/japanese asian PWs to find hints on how to do it. I dont see why the new pple now cant look up the english wiki right smack on the pwi page. Its just laziness.

Jacerai - Dreamweaver

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Ah yes

Running around gathering beans for 4 hours, the height of skill.

Seriously I've never had a full "classic" delta without 6 ****faced drunks on the party because holy balls its BORING.

Delta at spawn is dead because no coin drops and obviously you cant just sell tome fragments, that would make sense. Delta at eye is dead because delta at eye is distilled suffering

TL:DR: People are stupid

TL:DR: Nostalgia glasses?

I read through this thread and went "yeah, gammas were fun. Yeah, deltas back in the day were annoying as hell to find a squad that wouldn't crash and burn."
The reason I am quoting Joshcja is because I don't know anyone who gathers beans for four hours. Should only take the first or second wave to finish gathering, if you're sending one very slow person to do so.

"Delta at the eye" is painful to teach, if no one wants to listen or if the bean counter decides that chi is the best and only thing they should pick. (Had this happen twice - two different people.)

Currently the delta squads I'm in are time & repair costs over trying to do it old school. When a spawn point delta is quicker (I believe by about 30 minutes to an hour - correct me if I'm wrong) and (if you're really doing it "old school") pretty expensive to the puller.
Don't get me wrong, it can get very expensive at spawn point too, if the squad is relying on one person as a central AOE DD and everyone is killing very, very slowly.

If if if. Always if.

TL:DR:
Matters on squad and can we stop talking about 3+ years ago as if it was the golden age? b:surrender

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Full Delta at eye is literally the only instance boring enough that I actually fell asleep during it once and made squad fail. b:surrender

Same. Yes. And yes.

Ultra edit:
I don't cleric deltas anymore unless asked by a very close friend. Not worth becoming the "central catching point" anymore.
I'd also have to move around gear.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Jacerai - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ultra edit:
I don't cleric deltas anymore unless asked by a very close friend. Not worth becoming the "central catching point" anymore.
I'd also have to move around gear. [/COLOR]

Cleric is one of the worst classes to do any Rebirth on. Unless you're the tank/DD/OP running it, you are stuck sitting there in BB. If the rest of the squad is doing poorly, the best you can do is sit there. At best, you can show skill when they mess up and you can re-BB, keep squad alive while setting up to BB again. It's awful. Can't KB mobs into zhen, can't do anything if they ignore the gob of mobs attacking you that they aren't even paying attention to...

Bad memories. It's why doing Gamma on my BM was so dang fun; even if the barb died and the cleric got insta-gibbed from barb dying right at BB edge, could grab agro, spam leaps while debuffing mobs and dealing damage, while killing them all without cleric around to heal. That was some fun. Cleric is unmemorable play if the rest of the squad plays well. Good to dual box with though.