scammers

Sylvae - Sanctuary

As a further question, in case you got servers mixed up; by any chance did the SB (if one was in your group) happen to give some helpful advice when you got back to the party after rage-quitting (which hypocritically would mean the rage quitter was doing the exact same thing to everyone else left in the group, since he promised to do the bosses just as the others did) and talk about being tired of the treatment from the server; did they just so happen to mention the possibility of creating another account to get the illusion stones you used on your first character to roll a different toon. In fact, they even mentioned wanting to make a wizzie.

See, the fact is way too much of what is said is way too freaking close to what I went through. Add in this last tidbit, and it really seems like you got the server it happened on wrong. And if so, your account of what was happening was way honking off. And even the "discussed doing every boss" was not true. I point blank had to ask by the wording what it meant, since I was thinking pill babies. And even after I pointed out it was misleading to use BH79 all bosses, the lead still used that. When what most would take it to mean, is BH79 I, II, and III. That does not lead one to think every single boss in the dungeon, and only taking into account pill babies made me even think to ask about that.

As an aside, I mentioned the other account specifically hoping they would take it, and go to a different server. Because their attitude, actions, ego, and complete state of divorced reality was not something that would add to the play on the server.

Also, it was pointed out that the sin was going to try to get their BH done after they got kicked. The lead didn't bother re-inviting, the only thing they did was ask if we thought he could kill it in time. The lead didn't care about anything other than hurting the sin who was only sticking up for the seeker, who we don't think was even able to speak English.

If need be, I can give a play by play of the whole thing, and keep in mind; if for some reason they do go back and check this out, they're going to see what server and who all was involved. I did like how the lead only logged back in when the non-cleric and I started attacking the loon, and were able to survive while killing it. It was very depressing seeing the childish lead log back in when the loon was near dead. I tried to kill it faster, but I think they unfortunately got back in group in time for the kill's credit. That was truly disheartening, as the lead didn't deserve it at all. They weren't even there, and threw a hissy fit because the whole run was ruined because brigand was killed. And considering it wasn't wined, and they didn't tank ****, they didn't have a reason to complain about anything.

MagicSkry - Morai

DionDagger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yea the OLD PWI, where clerics were coddled, barbs got first pick in TT, APS was rampant, and people actually sided with the lines of bull you just spewed. There is only so much stupid someone can say before I write them off completely. You have filled that quota, single handedly.

My suggestion: Find a new game that doesn't involve other people if you can handle your needs not being put first.

GG.

hope you dont think this serious! And stop insulting foreigners who try to learn 2-3 language for telling you that you live in a box!

Here is a good article, where you can see how to behave in an MMO (which is a social experiment):

http://mmohuts.com/editorials/mmorpg-etiquette

ovenusarmanio

@the whole rushing high level vs low level squad leader wanting to go slow thing.

Trying to make someone rush because you are higher level when the party clearly doesn't want to rush, is just as much trying to force things your way as them telling you to slow down or be kicked. You're both leveraging your power over the other to have your way instead of having a civilized discussion and coming to a mutually beneficial agreement.

@OP

It is times like this that I wish having bad titles was against the rules. You weren't scammed. Scamming implies that you were deprived of some type of financial resource through deception. You were not.

As for the whole "don't be a jerk," in mmo rules. That doesn't mean you have to always help with any demand somebody makes of you. Standard MMO etiquette is that everyone in a squad discusses what they need and expect to get out of a dungeon prior to or shortly upon entry. And then the squad does it together. If you argued with somebody for 10 minutes about doing bosses outside of the bounty hunter mission, and did not reach a consensus. Then that person's needs clearly don't align with yours. At that point you can kick them for incompatibility with the rest of the squad, or acquiesce to how they want to do things in such a way that everyone else also still gets what they need. For example, doing brig/linus first and then looping back around so seeker can drop squad after those bosses.

Once the run has begun, you don't kick someone at the boss. When they said they would not help at the beginning you should have kicked them then and there. Because clearly that squad was not meant for them. According to you, they had already said they weren't going to help, and stood their ground for 10 minutes on this issue. You should have expected them to break off from the group and head straight to linus/brig. It was no surprise. They clearly communicated this to you at the beginning since you guys had an argument about it prior to the start of the run. It's rude to start an argument over such a thing in the first place. You apologize for not being clearer in your world chat (BH all bosses never includes loon or hooli because they aren't apart of BH), ask them politely to leave squad, and find someone else. That way you both can find the squad you need. Once the run started and they had helped all that time, it was a natural expectation based on MMO etiquette that you guys would do linus/brig together. When you violated that broke that rule, they did the same to you in return.

MagicSkry - Morai wrote: »

This story is not about "he had right" or just do it after that (because loon is on the way to linus and brig, and take 1-2 min to kill it, not like an "i need glutt too" in bh59), this is about that people are selfish as hell, forgot that in an MMO game there are other PEOPLE, who want to play with eachother, and you must adapt for others! If you dont do this, the whole game will ruin! You should learn this in the kindergarten! We could do loon without the 2 ****, and i kicked them out when it was clear, that they will not help us. I want the old PWI back, where i could found nice peoples any time! And we played together!

BTW I found this especially outrageous and especially telling about how your conversation at the start must have been. When someone enters a cave, they are their for a specific mission. A request outside of that mission is a special request, asking to also get credit for the same mission is not. That's why people curse the design of 59 more than the players who need glut too. It is not unreasonable to expect to get your BH done on a BH run. There is nothing unreasonable or special about asking for Glutt. Annoying because of the layout, sure. But unreasonable. What is unreasonable is putting out an incorrect advertisement (you wanted more than just BH bosses) than getting angry that not everyone understood what you meant, and don't necessarily want to help with the extra stuff.

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver

MagicSkry - Morai wrote: »

hope you dont think this serious! And stop insulting foreigners who try to learn 2-3 language for telling you that you live in a box!

Here is a good article, where you can see how to behave in an MMO (which is a social experiment):

http://mmohuts.com/editorials/mmorpg-etiquette

>etiquette for mmo's

Is there also an etiquette for how 12 year olds should behave on xbox live when playing cowadooty? I'd love to read that one lol.

But seriously, what prevented YOU from running with them to the next boss when they said they can't stay the entire run if something popped up?
That's not much of a teamplayer either, you know.

ovenusarmanio

DEMHEALSMAN - Dreamweaver wrote: »

>etiquette for mmo's

Is there also an etiquette for how 12 year olds should behave on xbox live when playing cowadooty? I'd love to read that one lol.

But seriously, what prevented YOU from running with them to the next boss when they said they can't stay the entire run if something popped up?
That's not much of a teamplayer either, you know.

Honestly they should update that to just say, "Everyone talk about what they want from the run at the beginning, and then go do that thing." That's how the vast majority of squads go, and is standard procedure/etiquette for most MMOs. Including this one. People who dip out with no explanation (after they get what they want )when they agreed to help are being rude. Especially if they expect the rest of the squad to help them **** them over. But so is exploiting someone's help for an entire cave, knowing full and god damn well they don't want to help with an extra boss. Then kicking them at the last boss. This sounds to me like "kick for any little thing," and the "leave early for no good reason," variety of rude people met each other. And it went down exactly how you think it would go.

MagicSkry - Morai

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

As a further question, in case you got servers mixed up; by any chance did the SB (if one was in your group) happen to give some helpful advice when you got back to the party after rage-quitting (which hypocritically would mean the rage quitter was doing the exact same thing to everyone else left in the group, since he promised to do the bosses just as the others did) and talk about being tired of the treatment from the server; did they just so happen to mention the possibility of creating another account to get the illusion stones you used on your first character to roll a different toon. In fact, they even mentioned wanting to make a wizzie.

See, the fact is way too much of what is said is way too freaking close to what I went through. Add in this last tidbit, and it really seems like you got the server it happened on wrong. And if so, your account of what was happening was way honking off. And even the "discussed doing every boss" was not true. I point blank had to ask by the wording what it meant, since I was thinking pill babies. And even after I pointed out it was misleading to use BH79 all bosses, the lead still used that. When what most would take it to mean, is BH79 I, II, and III. That does not lead one to think every single boss in the dungeon, and only taking into account pill babies made me even think to ask about that.

As an aside, I mentioned the other account specifically hoping they would take it, and go to a different server. Because their attitude, actions, ego, and complete state of divorced reality was not something that would add to the play on the server.

Also, it was pointed out that the sin was going to try to get their BH done after they got kicked. The lead didn't bother re-inviting, the only thing they did was ask if we thought he could kill it in time. The lead didn't care about anything other than hurting the sin who was only sticking up for the seeker, who we don't think was even able to speak English.

If need be, I can give a play by play of the whole thing, and keep in mind; if for some reason they do go back and check this out, they're going to see what server and who all was involved. I did like how the lead only logged back in when the non-cleric and I started attacking the loon, and were able to survive while killing it. It was very depressing seeing the childish lead log back in when the loon was near dead. I tried to kill it faster, but I think they unfortunately got back in group in time for the kill's credit. That was truly disheartening, as the lead didn't deserve it at all. They weren't even there, and threw a hissy fit because the whole run was ruined because brigand was killed. And considering it wasn't wined, and they didn't tank ****, they didn't have a reason to complain about anything.

i am not a pillbaby. When we started, i asked everyone what he /she need, and discussed that we need the 2 small boss too. The seekers english was good enough for insulting us, and the sins words wasnt nice too. The other sin was a not-so newbie (my faction mate, because i have a faction, yes), the cleric was fine enough, and there was an other stormie with tab for culty. It seemed thats a good team, the problem started when that 2 guy just refused to kill loon. I halfly killed loon (tanked with charm and crabs), and only the smaller sin and the tabber helped me. That was the moment i got back the lead, and started to prevent killing the last bosses. Poor cleric first cant decide what to do, but at least come back for us to tell the sin killed brig. He invited an other cleric for helping us, so i asked sorry, said thanks for the help, and when they accepted, i left them there, and they finished it. A bit later i joined back to the small sin, and with my gf we done linus, because the sin nedded it. I think i always try to be patient, and i teach my faction members to be kind too (as a national faction, its very important). I always tell them, that we must healp eachoder, and we often help even random people. Then i must see this kind of actions. I think i have the right to post this to the forum, maybe someone will learn how to act in company.

I have to ask sorry for my worse english, but at least i tried to learn it, same as german and latin.
And i ask all the faction leaders to try educate hes/her faction members as i do!

Thanks.

(oh, just to know: i belive in arcane class, i have a poor wizzie, a kind cleric, and a light psy with heavy crits. All of them can do a simple 79 easily. But i still belive that i can take time with valuable people online.)

Sylvae - Sanctuary

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Honestly they should update that to just say, "Everyone talk about what they want from the run at the beginning, and then go do that thing." That's how the vast majority of squads go, and is standard procedure/etiquette for most MMOs. Including this one. People who dip out with no explanation (after they get what they want )when they agreed to help are being rude. Especially if they expect the rest of the squad to help them **** them over. But so is exploiting someone's help for an entire cave, knowing full and god damn well they don't want to help with an extra boss. Then kicking them at the last boss. This sounds to me like "kick for any little thing," and the "leave early for no good reason," variety of rude people met each other. And it went down exactly how you think it would go.

I would bother pretending that the OP wasn't talking about the exact group I think he is, but once I remembered giving him advice for another server, and that he wanted to roll wizzie instead of psi, and that everything else completely matches up; it's the exact group I'm thinking of. I tried throwing a few off things to see if he'd correct them, but there's no need for that.

The sin wasn't booted for not helping or pulling their weight; we were the two characters actually doing everything. And I was not happy ending up tanking Stygean with heals so crappy, I was relying on my freebie charms and food to survive. The cleric and the OP had no skills leveled, no damage output, and no ability to actually do the dungeon "on their own." By on their own, he meant with my help tanking linus and loon. And I was not part of their side.

The sin and I were actually talking about the rest of the group in PMs a little after Hooli. The run was taking forever, since it was basically us pulling, killing, and doing basically everything. It was not by any stretch a 15 minute run.

When we got to the big room that branches off to loon and linus/brigand, the sin and I were killing some mobs going to final boss area, with the seeker coming in to help. Lead demanded what are we doing, blah blah about loon, so the sin and I went back to help, since it would be fast. The seeker kept going.

Everyone in squad was trying to get his attention, he kept going. We mentioned that the seeker might not speak any English, at which point the lead and seeker both said something in a different language. No idea what it was.

Most likely lead did, as they then kicked the seeker. The sin and I both thought it was pretty jacked up, and said it's kind of a jerk move to kick someone from BH that they need and were actually doing something on (unlike lead and his cleric friend), and that the seeker was in rush.

We said we could go and do the BH for the seeker so he could leave after, and we'd go back to do loon. Lead decided to let ego play, and said he was lead and decides the order it should be done in. The sin got fed up with his attitude, and said he'd be willing to help, but with an attitude like that he might reconsider.

This is of course after some PMs where the sin said he couldn't stand the leader and his jerk attitude, which I completely agreed with. He decided he didn't care if he was kicked, since the lead was in the wrong and he didn't want to help him after the lead's attitude and actions the whole way. He asked if I would care if he finished his BH, since he was pretty sure he could solo the boss in 60 seconds. I said I didn't care, I'd been wanting to leave the squad and just solo it myself, due to their incompetence and not meeting any obligations that would engender MMO etiquette. Because above all, mmo etiquette states you have to do your role, before you complain about anyone else who is doing their role.

So lead pitches a fit and kicks the sin (who had actually done nothing wrong, and was only defending the seeker's actions), and was even willing to do the boss. OP lied about that. Only the seeker was in a rush, but the sin got kicked for trying to be an adult and offer a way to compromise so all could be happy.

Sin makes it to boss, and manages to kill brigand in time. I actually was the one to tell the group, since the sin PMed me about it. Which I thought was a hilarious karmic action for the lead to mature by.

That's when we point out we could still do loon, but lead is in a total tantrum. No, the whole run is ruined. Everything is done out of order, whine whine whine. And then to total hypocrite, they rage quit. And again, the lead made the commitment to do the bosses for the other guy still in group.

Lead only came back, when their cleric friend told them we were killing loon with no problem, and sadly made it back in time for the end to get credit for a kill they somehow managed to do even less than usual on. But they did talk about how they thought they were "scammed" by the sin for leaving, and really just wanted to get the sin in trouble for leaving. Which is what their whole ticketing and post is about. Though the sin was apparently PMing the lead after, to fan the flames to let the OP make a complete and utter fool out of themselves.

Mission accomplished. The OP lied from the beginning, middle, to the end. At no point did the person they complain the most about refuse to help. The sin was not told it was all bosses in dungeon until they were already inside with me. The only reason the sin was kicked, was because he didn't give in to the lead's demands, because lead was lead. Even though lead was having me coordinate the fights, tank, dd; basically do everything a lead who thinks he's lead should have been doing.

This was about ego, entitlement, and childish petulance. And all of it was the OP's. If he hadn't agreed with my idea to switch server to make a wizzie, he woulda been on my blacklist. Without doubt, and I was sticking around for a god awful run that cost me more than everyone else, doing their quests. So I can't be painted with the same strokes he is attempting, and failing, to do to the sin.

EDIT: Yep, his post above confirms it. This avatar is my main; I was the 81 stormie that was in that group.

Quilue - Sanctuary

Is all this really necessary? 4 pages to talk about 1 BH run...could've finished all your neuma for the week!

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Is all this really necessary? 4 pages to talk about 1 BH run...could've finished all your neuma for the week!

Qingzi spamming is boring, this became funny once I started to realize how familiar the whole thing sounded. Killed time until reset, plus if a ticket is taken out, support might as well get the whole picture. The accurate one.

ovenusarmanio

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Qingzi spamming is boring, this became funny once I started to realize how familiar the whole thing sounded. Killed time until reset, plus if a ticket is taken out, support might as well get the whole picture. The accurate one.

...... the funny thing is that even if had went the way he claimed it went, it still makes him come off as the one who needs to read the link he spammed. Although support wont' see this thread most likely, unless he had it linked it to them.

opkossy

Yeah... it was bad enough on his end if he hadn't been lying from the start.

Seeing the real story just makes him look even worse now. b:laugh

Lolgasmic - Raging Tide

Fail_BM - Raging Tide wrote: »

Don't ever kick someone OP near to a boss, this is what happens when you do it.

Lol uhhhhmmmmmmm.... First hand experience, agreed hahah. In the same instance, too. Squad leader was being a brat and noob, so I pulled the mobs (rb2 barb r9rr etc) to brigand and linus and started killing them all.

I killed all the mobs, and put brig and linus down to like 1/10th HP.

Then i told the squad leader that it was me that took the Neuma from Stygen.

He never said anything about the neuma up until it was in my inventory, at which point he got all fussy because somebody took his neuma, OooOooOooo b:laugh he threatened to kick, too

i told him very simply, that if he kicks me from the squad, only i will be getting credit for the bosses, and he'll have to deal with the other 4 raging at him. And yup he paused for like 4 seconds then kicked, it took me like 10 seconds to finish off the bosses

PS I would reply to the OP but I can barely understand him... from his posts he sounds like a **** though : )

Eoria - Harshlands

This situation reminds me of a bh89 run I did. I wined it because **** that instance and said we'd be doing Blackwraith or w/e after Ethereal 'cause I needed on my veno for the rb quest. I wc'd to see if anyone else needed 'cause I'm nice like that and invited a few people including some random archer. We get to Ethereal and I notice archer isn't with us. I ask what he's doing and apparently he had gone and solo'd Blackwraith. Never said anything during the time it took to get up there that he needed it and had to leave quickly or w/e so we would've known to do it first. I ended up kicking and pking him. >.>;; Did a second run right after with a guildie that was with us on her alt and nice enough to log her main to solo the run.

Anyway, OP shoulda just gone to Brig first then took the remaining squad to Loon. b:bye

bloodedone87

That changes everything but the sin wasnt acting better either.
Yes he was kicked for no reason and he had the right to be angry but he should have been the better man and not going to kill the boss outside the squad ruining their bh. He let his emotions tell him what to do.
I still believe that the sqaud leader is the first priority to be helped but that doesnt mean that you have to obey him or that he has to be a total jerk telling ppl what to do and how they should do thinks. Why is him the first priority:
he used his teles to get ppl for his sqaud
he invited you to his squad- assuming you are just a DD there.
you accepted to help him first. his name was the one that you seen in wc asking for help or ppl for his bh run , you pm me asking to join- assuming that you are someone that can solo the bh or that can tank, someone that actually doesnt need a group to do it.
For exemple if leader in a bh run want to kill a certain boss first( ofc that means comunicating to all from the start he needs that boss first) it seems normal to go and kill his boss first.
In that above I wasnt reffering to OP post.

But it doesnt matter how you wanted to do things in a bh run, if you want the leader to be the first priority, if the leader is a jerk or not, if you kick ppl with or without reason YOU DONT JOIN A BH RUN WITH RANDOM PPL IF YOU KNOW YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH TIME.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

bloodedone87 wrote: »

That changes everything but the sin wasnt acting better either.
Yes he was kicked for no reason and he had the right to be angry but he should have been the better man and not going to kill the boss outside the squad ruining their bh. He let his emotions tell him what to do.
I still believe that the sqaud leader is the first priority to be helped but that doesnt mean that you have to obey him or that he has to be a total jerk telling ppl what to do and how they should do thinks. Why is him the first priority:
he used his teles to get ppl for his sqaud
he invited you to his squad- assuming you are just a DD there.
you accepted to help him first. his name was the one that you seen in wc asking for help or ppl for his bh run , you pm me asking to join- assuming that you are someone that can solo the bh or that can tank, someone that actually doesnt need a group to do it.
For exemple if leader in a bh run want to kill a certain boss first( ofc that means comunicating to all from the start he needs that boss first) it seems normal to go and kill his boss first.
In that above I wasnt reffering to OP post.

But it doesnt matter how you wanted to do things in a bh run, if you want the leader to be the first priority, if the leader is a jerk or not, if you kick ppl with or without reason YOU DONT JOIN A BH RUN WITH RANDOM PPL IF YOU KNOW YOU DONT HAVE ENOUGH TIME.

You've got some weird logic. You claim the sin killing the ruined the BH for everyone else. For one, the sin asked me if I was okay with it, and I said I didn't care. I didn't even know which he was killing or even if it was both. The sin wanted it, the seeker wanted. Heck the only person who cared about the order it was done in, was one person. That is not the squad, that is one person.

Even their cleric friend knew that the OP was in the wrong, and was trying to calm them down. Party chat logs will back that up. The person who forms a squad is not alpha and omega; it's a squad. And it's not like he was going to have to worry about doing the work, since he hadn't yet.

And it's not like the OP even stopped at the sin. He threatened me with kicking, claiming I was going to get my kill and leave. Even though I only needed one kill the entire time, and had tanked Stygean and Hooli for them. And stygian was out of the way. Then they later wanted to kick me when I told them the sin wasn't scamming them for what he did.

The OP has issues, RL issues. And no squad should have to make unlimited allowances when the OP was willing to make absolutely 0. Using free WC horns does not give you that level of control over everyone else's lives.

As for lead being the one calling the shots, funny you should say that. They said I should lead it, when we were going under way since I knew where to go and what to do. I then said I could tab it as well, if they passed actual lead. So I was leading both in squad, and actual, by request of the OP. And then tried to assume umbrage on my behalf for my tabs being "ruined." So by your own logic, it should have been by my decision, and I always go with what the group wants. I even pointed out if the others did bail, I could just bring my alt main in and finish whatever bosses required it.

EDIT: Might as well finish off part of why the whole thing is funny. So they were mad I didn't pass lead back right away, since they wanted to be able to boot them. I was talking to the sin in PM, and he said he was close enough that he could definitely solo the boss. So I passed lead, and she immediately kicked them from group. I warned they were going to kill the boss, and they said they didn't think they could, and they didn't want them in the group if they were going to act like that. And refused to reinvite, even with the rest of the group asking her to.

However when the cleric went off to go check, (incidentally going exactly where we all could have to get credit for it), I got the pm saying Got him! Let the group know, cleric went to confirm, tantrum.

Anyways when they got back, it was all about how the sin scammed them. This is when I pointed out since she didn't wine the instance, or pay for the kill, it wasn't really a scam. So now she threatens me with kicking, which was funny, but also showed they were same darling as before.

Well, letting things play out seemed to work before. So I give the sin a heads up and they agree with it. So I say, if you really believe you were scammed, you'd take out a ticket on the incident. They took it literal, and started going with it. At this point I think the whole thing is just a ricidulous joke, so I mention that if the ticket doesn't work, they can always post on the forums. Because they get **** done there.

To be honest, I'd forgotten about the whole thing with all the stuff going on in game, leveling SB, holidays, family etc. So when I saw this I didn't realize this was the run I went on. But come on, looking back, it is kind of funny. And it's not like they wanted to hear the truth; wonder how pandering to someone's ego is working out for them.

bloodedone87

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

You've got some weird logic. You claim the sin killing the ruined the BH for everyone else. For one, the sin asked me if I was okay with it, and I said I didn't care. I didn't even know which he was killing or even if it was both. The sin wanted it, the seeker wanted. Heck the only person who cared about the order it was done in, was one person. That is not the squad, that is one person.

Even their cleric friend knew that the OP was in the wrong, and was trying to calm them down. Party chat logs will back that up. The person who forms a squad is not alpha and omega; it's a squad. And it's not like he was going to have to worry about doing the work, since he hadn't yet.

And it's not like the OP even stopped at the sin. He threatened me with kicking, claiming I was going to get my kill and leave. Even though I only needed one kill the entire time, and had tanked Stygean and Hooli for them. And stygian was out of the way. Then they later wanted to kick me when I told them the sin wasn't scamming them for what he did.

The OP has issues, RL issues. And no squad should have to make unlimited allowances when the OP was willing to make absolutely 0. Using free WC horns does not give you that level of control over everyone else's lives.

As for lead being the one calling the shots, funny you should say that. They said I should lead it, when we were going under way since I knew where to go and what to do. I then said I could tab it as well, if they passed actual lead. So I was leading both in squad, and actual, by request of the OP. And then tried to assume umbrage on my behalf for my tabs being "ruined." So by your own logic, it should have been by my decision, and I always go with what the group wants. I even pointed out if the others did bail, I could just bring my alt main in and finish whatever bosses required it.[/QUOTE

I wasnt talking about the OP in my exemple. OP was acting like a jerk.
I was saying that the leader of a squad should get first what he needs if he is a nice person during the run, regardless of how much contribution he had during the run.
For exemple:
in a squad for bh69 the squad leader needs to kill pole first( being his bh 1) then go out , report and get his bh2
other member of the squad wants nob first cause his bh1.
for me normally would be to kill pole first
the squad leader invited you to his party, you didnt use your teles to wc for making a party.
it doesnt matter if you are tanking everything or you are just a DD.
the squad leader didnt force you to join the party. he didnt force you to help him so even if you tanking everything dont act like a jerk saying that everything must go your way cause you doing the most dmg there.
ofc the squad leader doesnt have to act like a jerk either, no demanding to ppl to do things his way , he should ask them nicely what bosses they should kill first and things like that.
If you dont agree with the squad leader leave the squad.
if you are kicked from squad for no reason, dont go and kill the boss he needs ruining his bh. show him that you are a good person and just leave the dungeon.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

bloodedone87 wrote: »

I wasnt talking about the OP in my exemple. OP was acting like a jerk.
I was saying that the leader of a squad should get first what he needs if he is a nice person during the run, regardless of how much contribution he had during the run.
For exemple:
in a squad for bh69 the squad leader needs to kill pole first( being his bh 1) then go out , report and get his bh2
other member of the squad wants nob first cause his bh1.
for me normally would be to kill pole first
the squad leader invited you to his party, you didnt use your teles to wc for making a party.
it doesnt matter if you are tanking everything or you are just a DD.
the squad leader didnt force you to join the party. he didnt force you to help him so even if you tanking everything dont act like a jerk saying that everything must go your way cause you doing the most dmg there.
ofc the squad leader doesnt have to act like a jerk either, no demanding to ppl to do things his way , he should ask them nicely what bosses they should kill first and things like that.
If you dont agree with the squad leader leave the squad.
if you are kicked from squad for no reason, dont go and kill the boss he needs ruining his bh. show him that you are a good person and just leave the dungeon.

Wouldn't matter. As I stated, the lead was giving people **** for wanting to leave. And that is just leave the group, not leave and go kill the boss. According to him they were breaking their word by agreeing to do something, and then deciding not to. And this isn't from when we were in there, this is seeing in the beginning how much of an *** the original lead was and deciding it wasn't worth it; exactly as you said they should do.

See, even your suggested way to do something would not work in this situation. Even talking about it would be more enjoyable to not go with the group was enough to trigger his wackadoo. If you do what you suggested, you'd have been yelled at and treated like garbage no matter what you did. That's the thing; there was simply no winning. It was do what they wanted, how they wanted, and if you don't like it you don't get to leave; you have to shut up and do it anyways without thanks.

Bottom line is even your suggested method was a failure, because you're assuming rational thought. There was none.

WannaBM - Archosaur

To OP: the thing about rights and OP people is this:

These OP people can do whatever they want to do in an instance alone just as fast as with others. Often even faster. Usually when i do a BH instance with others, i either go get a toilet break while i stand waiting next to the boss, or i pull it back to the rest who are still somewhere halfway the now empty instance. The OP people may be doing it for a nuema and just take you allong for your quests because he saw you in WC and so decided to do one out of his 20 runs with you following him. He may even not need anything and just be helping you because he is bored.

And that is what gives these OP people rights. They are helping you without you being there being any benefit to them whatsoever.

I can fully understand if that is not what you expected from an MMORPG. Before i go help people, i always ask if they actually want high level help. If you want to do an instance with equally geared people and equal rights, you may best say it in your WC when making squad. Something like `no high levels plz`.

Colum - Raging Tide

Wow, this thread has grown big since I glanced at it yesterday and decided not to reply yet. However, I think ti's time I put my two cents in.

It's hard to point a finger at a certain person and say "YOU were wrong!" since none of us saw the detailed conversation and thus have no say who started the problems of the squad.

I don't remember whether the run was wined or not, but unwined BH 79 squad could take 15-30 minutes depending on squad's gears, classes and how daring they are. If the sin was the only good geared character there, chances are he was the one who did the most job stunning the mobs at place and killing them. No doubt the sin also tanked the bosses. In this case it is most wise for others to follow the sin since he is the tank of the squad and makes things faster for everyone.

I personally do not understand why you'd have to go to Loon first, I only do that when I'm certain my squad is not in a hurry. Brig and Linus should always come at first importance, them being the BH bosses while Loon only has the quest for the new QSM stuff. Not everyone need that.

However... when it comes to the kicking part the fault could be either OP's or the seeker's. If the seeker did not say at star tthat theyre in a hurry (which they should do if they know) there is a lack of communication and finding out later that someone has a need to be somewhere else soon might be frustrating. Emergencies happen which is good to keep in mind, though sometimes players are just careless and do not bother mention of their hurry til at later point.
I personally would not have kicked the sin or seeker out only because they wanted to do the MOST IMPORTANT bosses first, not unless they were being extremely rude. It would have just been wise to go with them first since getting Loon after is really not that hard.

bloodedone87

Colum - Raging Tide wrote: »

Wow, this thread has grown big since I glanced at it yesterday and decided not to reply yet. However, I think ti's time I put my two cents in.

It's hard to point a finger at a certain person and say "YOU were wrong!" since none of us saw the detailed conversation and thus have no say who started the problems of the squad.

I don't remember whether the run was wined or not, but unwined BH 79 squad could take 15-30 minutes depending on squad's gears, classes and how daring they are. If the sin was the only good geared character there, chances are he was the one who did the most job stunning the mobs at place and killing them. No doubt the sin also tanked the bosses. In this case it is most wise for others to follow the sin since he is the tank of the squad and makes things faster for everyone.

I personally do not understand why you'd have to go to Loon first, I only do that when I'm certain my squad is not in a hurry. Brig and Linus should always come at first importance, them being the BH bosses while Loon only has the quest for the new QSM stuff. Not everyone need that.

However... when it comes to the kicking part the fault could be either OP's or the seeker's. If the seeker did not say at star tthat theyre in a hurry (which they should do if they know) there is a lack of communication and finding out later that someone has a need to be somewhere else soon might be frustrating. Emergencies happen which is good to keep in mind, though sometimes players are just careless and do not bother mention of their hurry til at later point.
I personally would not have kicked the sin or seeker out only because they wanted to do the MOST IMPORTANT bosses first, not unless they were being extremely rude. It would have just been wise to go with them first since getting Loon after is really not that hard.

A sqaud should never been in a hurry and even a person in the sqaud is in the hurry he has no right to hurry the others. If a person knows that he is in a hurry he shouldnt join a squad for a bh run. he should do his bh run when he got time.
True that Loon is not needed by everyone and Brig and Linus but personally i would prefer to do the bosses in this order:
1Styg. 2 loon. 3 brig and linus
Why this order?
I have been in so many sqaud where ppl decided to kill nob and pole first(69) or brig and linus(79) and they forgot about me needing pyro or styg. Either they did that cause nob or pole being their bh1 or brig or linus and they wanted to go report after see if they get pyro or styg as bh2. Sometimes they dont get it and leave the squad and the others leave the squad too forgeting that I said i needed pyro or styg. I try to get their attention and convince them nicely to stay but i failed.
Called me paranoid but I will be afraid that after brig and linus they will forget about loon and they will leave.
Ofc if the others decide to do brig and linus first i cannit force them to kill loon first. I have only 2 options:
leave the squad
stay in squad and hope they wont forget about loon.

Cristalwhite - Harshlands

Today i am on posting mood b:pleased

I find it all funny somehow but i didnt read everything in detail in this thread.
What i have seen were people who insult others because their time is more important than anything else. I have seen people who claim their rights and so on and so on.
You can summarize all this in simply one word: egoism.

But dont get me wrong: in our world, our society, our economy system, it is demanded to be egotistical at one point or another. And even without our system, at some point you have to be selfish to order up a chaotic situation.

If everyone is running in a different direction in a war, the warlord will lose the battle most likely.
So the warlord have todo somthing about it and demand everyone to follow his order.
Either you follow or feel the consequences.

If i start a bh run and see a person rushing to the boss while everyone else is falling behind, i get afraid that he is going todo the boss all alone. But i belive in humans and i try to trust till they give me other reasons. Anyway it was probably boths fault.

And i think that you have no idea how funny people can be.
Let me tell you a story.

A couple years ago i went to Frostcovered city on a low level character, dont remember class level or gear. But i know that a BM was basicly soloing most of the run for us. In the final room he waited untill everyone was there. He killt the boss, immediately start the EXP-Heads while the 50 other monsters where still arround us and left the party. we were stucked with a noob squad barely able to kill one group and then try to kill rest of the heads.

No doubts he did all the work and had much fun of **** us lol.
But remembering this make me quiet wondering how funny you have to be todo all this work, knowing you wont get much help and then make fun about the squad at the end without getting your own reward either. Quiet impressive.

@About rushing
I am guilty myself for going in dungeon runs without the time to finish it really. I did that in the past for quiet a while and always felt guilty when i caused the squad to hurry up. But i am a different personallity than people who demand to rush. I dont demand it. I just hope for it. And i will never insult. In some special cases my squad really frustrated me by wasting time for usless things but in those cases the runs take more than 2 hours already. I even had frostcovered city runs where the time ran out when we arrived at the final room and the instance kicked us all and reset.

I meet people who demand that everyone do everything how they wanted. If the people did not do it, he started to insult. At that point the fun of the game went poof and the next couple minutes to the end is just a chain of insulting, arguing and harassment. He even demand people to use specific skills in a specific way and order. if you didn't do it he start insulting and asking why no one wanna learn how to play. I know sometimes people really dont know what todo, but sometimes they have good reasons not doing what other may expect.
As a wizard i can tell you, that i will not use all my AOE skills in a squad of people where i will end up tanking all the monsters, because i will just die. I learned that very fast. And even if i wasnt the person who got insulted it still bothered me.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

bloodedone87 wrote: »

Why this order?
I have been in so many sqaud where ppl decided to kill nob and pole first(69) or brig and linus(79) and they forgot about me needing pyro or styg. Either they did that cause nob or pole being their bh1 or brig or linus and they wanted to go report after see if they get pyro or styg as bh2. Sometimes they dont get it and leave the squad and the others leave the squad too forgeting that I said i needed pyro or styg. I try to get their attention and convince them nicely to stay but i failed.
Called me paranoid but I will be afraid that after brig and linus they will forget about loon and they will leave.

Immaterial on this run; I had already told them if someone left after killing the bh79 bosses and didn't want to do loon, I had my BM sitting in dreamweaver on other window ready to come in.
And trust wouldn't be an issue there, since I had already done styg when it was stated from beginning I only needed linus. Styg was completely out of the way and useless to me, and I helped on hooli. There's paranoid, then there's delusional. So there was already proof.

Cristalwhite - Harshlands wrote: »

I find it all funny somehow but i didnt read everything in detail in this thread.
What i have seen were people who insult others because their time is more important than anything else. I have seen people who claim their rights and so on and so on.
You can summarize all this in simply one word: egoism.

But dont get me wrong: in our world, our society, our economy system, it is demanded to be egotistical at one point or another. And even without our system, at some point you have to be selfish to order up a chaotic situation.

If everyone is running in a different direction in a war, the warlord will lose the battle most likely.
So the warlord have todo somthing about it and demand everyone to follow his order.
Either you follow or feel the consequences.

If i start a bh run and see a person rushing to the boss while everyone else is falling behind, i get afraid that he is going todo the boss all alone. But i belive in humans and i try to trust till they give me other reasons. Anyway it was probably boths fault.

And i think that you have no idea how funny people can be.
Let me tell you a story.

A couple years ago i went to Frostcovered city on a low level character, dont remember class level or gear. But i know that a BM was basicly soloing most of the run for us. In the final room he waited untill everyone was there. He killt the boss, immediately start the EXP-Heads while the 50 other monsters where still arround us and left the party. we were stucked with a noob squad barely able to kill one group and then try to kill rest of the heads.

No doubts he did all the work and had much fun of **** us lol.
But remembering this make me quiet wondering how funny you have to be todo all this work, knowing you wont get much help and then make fun about the squad at the end without getting your own reward either. Quiet impressive.

It's not insulting, if you are stating a characteristic someone evinced. Calling someone arrogant or self-centered, who spent an hour being arrogant and self-centered in the only hour you've known them, is not an insult. As well, you can't logically ascribe commentary after a run in the forums, as if it happened during the run in question. At no point did I do so during the run, and was in fact thanked by OP's cleric friend for my patience and help at the end. It was really for the cleric and the other guy left in group I continued on.

Also, the story doesn't really match up, since the sin left the boss I needed in the instance. I didn't have to redo anything. But I was willing to, because the pace of the run was so slow, and the enjoyment so lacking (outside kicking back during the blow-up), that I could have run through it faster and more enjoyably just starting over once the arguing began. Which I was going to after the booting and threats to me, until OP rage quit. After that I was willing to continue on to help them out, and we did loon first.

But just because I didn't call the OP every name they earned during the run, doesn't mean I wasn't saying it out loud. Or discussing his awful behavior through PM.

And again, OP is not the "Warlord" in this scenario anyways. They only got lead back because they pitched a fit and demanded it right then, right now, or I would be reported. Despite the ludicrousness of the demand. I had been leading, and went with group consensus for what they wanted. I was not willing to pass lead, since I don't believe in kicking people just because someone wanted to throw a tantrum. I only passed it after it was too late to matter.

Which according to the many inaccurate attempts to portray the OP as just "equal blame", seems to be a recurring theme; that the leader determines where to go and what order to do it in. In the blind attempts to ameliorate their actions, you might want to stop using Leader should be followed as an excuse.

bloodedone87

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Immaterial on this run; I had already told them if someone left after killing the bh79 bosses and didn't want to do loon, I had my BM sitting in dreamweaver on other window ready to come in.
And trust wouldn't be an issue there, since I had already done styg when it was stated from beginning I only needed linus. Styg was completely out of the way and useless to me, and I helped on hooli. There's paranoid, then there's delusional. So there was already proof.

You are talking about OP post and what happend in the bh you were involved too.
I am talking in general.

MagicSkry - Morai

bloodedone87 wrote: »

You are talking about OP post and what happend in the bh you were involved too.
I am talking in general.

I'm happy to hear this! This means you understand, that this is not just a fail run, this is a huge social problem, what we can't let to happen, or we must say goodbye to MMO's.

Judge me, because i kicked that 2 people, but you must know, that they behavior was highly provocative, known that following the team doesn't hurts, or make extra hours of pain.

After this incident, and some others what happened to me (refusing squad invites while mobbing, then aoe-ing my pull or so) i have to block all the idiots and force myself to find every possible good one for the future. I don't really like to add every smiling people to my friend list, but i think i must, if i want to play with people outside my faction. In the past i only did that when we done FC runs with random peoples.

Donifan - Raging Tide

MagicSkry - Morai wrote: »

refusing squad invites while mobbing

I fail to see why this is something bad.
There are times that I have agreed and times that I have declined.
Reasons for declining:
1. No time. I'm in a very hurry mode.
2. Need specific drops and I can't have others messing with the drops, drops rate, e.t.c.
3. People won't say what they need or if they need further assistance, resulting in me following and waiting for a reply, without knowing does he/she need more help? Can I go now do my things? Is it ok for me to leave now?
4. People begging for things. Sometimes that I have accepted invites, I got requests like "give me coins" "give me this", "give me that".

Toliman - Raging Tide

Donifan - Raging Tide wrote: »

I fail to see why this is something bad.
There are times that I have agreed and times that I have declined.
Reasons for declining:
1. No time. I'm in a very hurry mode.
2. Need specific drops and I can't have others messing with the drops, drops rate, e.t.c.
3. People won't say what they need or if they need further assistance, resulting in me following and waiting for a reply, without knowing does he/she need more help? Can I go now do my things? Is it ok for me to leave now?
4. People begging for things. Sometimes that I have accepted invites, I got requests like "give me coins" "give me this", "give me that".

Totally agree.

To kill boss squad is necessary sometimes, but to kill mobs ?

There are plenty of places with mobs around.

DionDagger - Dreamweaver

MagicSkry - Morai wrote: »

I'm happy to hear this! This means you understand, that this is not just a fail run, this is a huge social problem, what we can't let to happen, or we must say goodbye to MMO's.

Judge me, because i kicked that 2 people, but you must know, that they behavior was highly provocative, known that following the team doesn't hurts, or make extra hours of pain.

After this incident, and some others what happened to me (refusing squad invites while mobbing, then aoe-ing my pull or so) i have to block all the idiots and force myself to find every possible good one for the future. I don't really like to add every smiling people to my friend list, but i think i must, if i want to play with people outside my faction. In the past i only did that when we done FC runs with random peoples.

I rest my case that this guy is a moron, as i stated before. He doesn't understand that people don't have to agree with his totalitarian attitude, and that this is a world where people will do as they see fit, just like the real world.

He claims that he and he alone knows why people play MMO's and that reason is to group up and do things in a particular friendly and static fashion.

Bull

People like him are the exact reason why i refuse to help people now. You would think that someone that farmed full r9rr+10 from nothing knows a bit more about the game than a g16 +3 for instance. People will always think their way is the best way, and anything that contradicts that is wrong. Even after being given demonstrable evidence, that there are other method.

The only social problem I see here is multitudes of people expecting everyone to be nice and freindly, and agree with them on every little thing. Well guess what, it is reality, it's not gonna happen. Then he blames them saying their behavior is provocative...I don't even. And you don't think bitchin, and screaming about what you want someone else to do with their time isn't provocative? But of course, the OP feels as though he could never do anything wrong.

**** this guy and anyone like him. This thread is a waste of time, in my opinion. He won't even accept criticism.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Toliman - Raging Tide wrote: »

Totally agree.

To kill boss squad is necessary sometimes, but to kill mobs ?

There are plenty of places with mobs around.

I understand exactly what he means. Often you stand in line to do the primal dailies where everyone needs the same mobs. So you invite people and all they have to do is click ok and everyone will get the quest from those same mobs. But clicking ok seems to much for some people and thus they go and try to get the kills first (the waiting in line is too much as well)
I too think that those people are idiots.

Toliman - Raging Tide

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

I understand exactly what he means. Often you stand in line to do the primal dailies where everyone needs the same mobs. So you invite people and all they have to do is click ok and everyone will get the quest from those same mobs. But clicking ok seems to much for some people and thus they go and try to get the kills first (the waiting in line is too much as well)
I too think that those people are idiots.

May be there are too many players in game now.

I had not such problem with my quests though (it was long before expansion and bots).

I have screenshots, where map is empty and nobody around except my character.

Colum - Raging Tide

bloodedone87 wrote: »

A sqaud should never been in a hurry and even a person in the sqaud is in the hurry he has no right to hurry the others. If a person knows that he is in a hurry he shouldnt join a squad for a bh run. he should do his bh run when he got time.
True that Loon is not needed by everyone and Brig and Linus but personally i would prefer to do the bosses in this order:
1Styg. 2 loon. 3 brig and linus
Why this order?
I have been in so many sqaud where ppl decided to kill nob and pole first(69) or brig and linus(79) and they forgot about me needing pyro or styg. Either they did that cause nob or pole being their bh1 or brig or linus and they wanted to go report after see if they get pyro or styg as bh2. Sometimes they dont get it and leave the squad and the others leave the squad too forgeting that I said i needed pyro or styg. I try to get their attention and convince them nicely to stay but i failed.
Called me paranoid but I will be afraid that after brig and linus they will forget about loon and they will leave.
Ofc if the others decide to do brig and linus first i cannit force them to kill loon first. I have only 2 options:
leave the squad
stay in squad and hope they wont forget about loon.

I think you should try to view this situation from several aspects, not just how YOU see how it should go.

I agree with the part that a person should not join a BH squad if they know to be in a hurry that would be in the limits of whether theyre able to complete the run or not, say theyre joining an instance that takes typically 15-25 min and they have 20 min time, then it is best for them to leave it til later.

However, this is not the only case. Let's say this 15-25 min instance would take 40 mins instead, now this is already lot longer run than usual for this said instance and the person did not expect to spend that long time there. Some people, like me most of the time, are capable of waiting even for hours but you should not expect everyone to be. Things happen, instance starts taking a long time and people start running out of patience. Not mentioning the emergency hurrys that can happen in a middle of an instance. Someone gets called for work, something happens at home, you realise too late you do not have any food in your apartment etc etc. These should always go case-by-case basis.

And the order people prefer the bosses done in... is personal for everyone. It's good to go by the usual standards if your server has such. Usually most RT squads do pyro>nob+pole order, and in 79 styg>hooli>linus+brig>loon. I would go with this 79 order as well, why? Clearing to Loon is MUCH easier than clearing to Linus and Brig.

Communication is the key. Compromising is as well. If you're unsure of your squad, or need something that isn't usually needed, TELL SO. Remind few times. If I happened to need Loon I would say "don't forget we have 1 more boss after this" at Linus and Brig. Most people listen. If not, I suggest getting a good faction and running with them.