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Demon or Sage Strombring?

demansfairydemansfairy Posts: 453 Arc User
edited May 2015 in Stormbringer
So I've hit 89 and I'm wondering if I should go Demon or Sage as a Stormbringer. I've looked at the skills and while Sage seems to beat Demon in passive or support skills, it looks like Demon is better in most of the attack skills to me. But then there the chi thing and sage can produce a LOT of it compared to demon. So what are your guys opinion on which path to take and why?
Post edited by demansfairy on
full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105
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Comments

  • SunDownXIII - DreamweaverSunDownXIII - Dreamweaver Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Not sure yet... Sage sounds like the logical choice... But then again new class new rules.
    101/101/102
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  • Sylvae - SanctuarySylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    It's very balanced in many of the skills, it is honestly hard to say if one is better or not. Sage eruption is mostly better if you are using ice primarily, since you can spam the heck out of the channeling boost and have demon's channeling speed mixed with sage's protection.

    For the demon side, I really like the healing aspect for fighting bosses; but using it to get full chi, spam your heavy 59s, then back into searing light is just too nice a combo to pass up. Definitely sticking with sage, but it'll be tough to call before we see end game stormbringers decked out to see if one is better.
  • dark8hamsterdark8hamster Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I think sage is better because it gain more chi, reduce cast time for some skills and also gain 5% more reducing cast time from skill *I forgot it's name, second skill in skills-book*

    And for some skills sage increase damage
    Sorry for my english, I'm from Russia b:surrender
  • demansfairydemansfairy Posts: 453 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    It's very balanced in many of the skills, it is honestly hard to say if one is better or not. Sage eruption is mostly better if you are using ice primarily, since you can spam the heck out of the channeling boost and have demon's channeling speed mixed with sage's protection.

    For the demon side, I really like the healing aspect for fighting bosses; but using it to get full chi, spam your heavy 59s, then back into searing light is just too nice a combo to pass up. Definitely sticking with sage, but it'll be tough to call before we see end game stormbringers decked out to see if one is better.

    The problem with searing light is that it costs 150 chi to use, meaning you have to sit in that form for 10 secs to recover the chi you used to use the skill and it does low damage =/. Im conflicted, on one hand sage has a LOT of chi gain which is really really really nice, but it has skill upgrades like "-.2 sec chan" which is garbage compared to the demon ones b:cry
    full +12 SB, currently lv 105 105 105
  • Sylvae - SanctuarySylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The problem with searing light is that it costs 150 chi to use, meaning you have to sit in that form for 10 secs to recover the chi you used to use the skill and it does low damage =/. Im conflicted, on one hand sage has a LOT of chi gain which is really really really nice, but it has skill upgrades like "-.2 sec chan" which is garbage compared to the demon ones b:cry

    Luckily the demon has some garbage ones, like straight XXX damage boosts. Those were questionable in vanilla, with all the extra means of mag attk it isn't really worth mentioned.

    Sage has a few like that, but they also include weapon damage % in addition to straight damage bonus.

    Agreed that the -.sec chan adds are pretty much junk though. Was hoping not to see any of those, and they make less sense since sage has the 25% channeling boost over 20% as well. Pretty sure they were focused on spreading the mediocrity and strength between the two more than they have in the past classes. Really don't think anyone will be disappointed whichever path they take, outside of if one has a combo that really works well over the other. And even that will be a matter of choice and preference.
  • ZentDreigon - Raging TideZentDreigon - Raging Tide Posts: 456 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Going demon here. More control, spammable +15 Defense Levels, can use Reaper more often. My kind of playstyle.

    I sense in the future we'll have some sage vs demon discussion just like wizards have. Chi vs Control.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  • Ibunneh - Raging TideIbunneh - Raging Tide Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I too, will be going demon. Spammable def levels (**** you O'Malley blessing!) Much better control. Sure, sage has all that chi and spike damage, but I'd take pissing an oppenent off with control over pure outright damage any day. So I will be one of those rare demon stormbringers, who will still spam the hell out of Lunar Guidance for chi lawl
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  • viviane19viviane19 Posts: 109 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I went demon... I can switch back to Sage anytime.. I aint having that much chi problems
    the buff skill has only 3 sec CD so you can gain chi, not much skills cost chi so why not demon :P and as i heard Demon is the best option for PVP

    Open your mind, let it **** you in kind :-)
  • Deceptistar - SanctuaryDeceptistar - Sanctuary Posts: 10,454 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    prolly go demon seeing that some of the bonus' of sage could be filled in by a decent lv80+ genie and future gear bonus of any mage R9andAbove gear (mostly channeling)
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  • Tsukishi - DreamweaverTsukishi - Dreamweaver Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Where have you people seen the effects of sage or demon for your skills? i haven't found this info yet. I'd like to see for myself to make my decision.
  • Sylvae - SanctuarySylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Where have you people seen the effects of sage or demon for your skills? i haven't found this info yet. I'd like to see for myself to make my decision.

    Check the Commanding the Storm thread in this subforum. Has the whole current list.
  • Tsukishi - DreamweaverTsukishi - Dreamweaver Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Check the Commanding the Storm thread in this subforum. Has the whole current list.


    TY just read it and decieded i think demon suits me more b:victory

    My reasoning: demon passives (water/metal/blood of nightshade) gives total +3% crit, more effective overall than small % increases to the current effects of those passives in the sage form.

    Most Demon skills enhanced specific effects (stun time, aoe radius, etc) existing on the skills improving there usefulness while sage either gave a very small reduction to channeling time or a chance to generate some more chi.

    Demon Searing moonlight and Moonblade can heal you. 'nuff said.

    Cumulonimbus and Snowtorm(?) dont seem conpletely useless after you upgrade them to demon or sage. That being said, still dont like the 30 chi cost for basic damage skills that cant even mobile cast.

    Not saying Sage seemed bad at all either. I just preferred the gains from the demon versions better. I think after looking them over, either one will be good like venos. Master Li's technique still more op than mo zun's taunt.
  • SunDownXIII - DreamweaverSunDownXIII - Dreamweaver Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Wow after reading the descriptions sounds like I too will be go8ng demon. Definitely more my play style.

    Chi has never been an issue. Just need me a good genie.
    101/101/102
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    Also run around as a R1 seeker named WildFireXIII b:chuckle and now as a Stormbringer named xGrimStormxX, and no I'm not Grim from Kindred
  • DarkSkiesx - DreamweaverDarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Looking at the later skills like the AEU skill that gives 400 chi over 20 seconds with a 90 second cooldown, and add to the fact that the squad buff with a 3s cd is one any SB of either cultivation will be spamming on cd, I'd suggest binding it to Q or if you have a gaming mouse the scroll button.

    Oh and of course genies help, cloud eruption lvl 1 for life.

    SBs will be swimming in chi why wouldn't you want the extra cc of demon, the damage index of the class seems low, I'm not sure what difference the sage firepower would make, I think this calls for math.
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  • Sylvae - SanctuarySylvae - Sanctuary Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Where are you guys getting this demon does more CC thing? It almost seems like people are making it up, to justify going demon.

    The only places there is any CC differences are:

    Ice Bullet: It increases MINIMUM stun from 3 to 4 seconds. Which means if you're full ice, there is not benefit whatsoever. And the difference with mixed orbs is also going to be less than 1 second. Better than sage, but only if you aren't full ice orb at the time. Otherwise it is guaranteed worse.

    Cumulonimbus: A 18 second CD spike skill, that gets a 30% chance for 3 second stun. If the CD was less, I could see counting such a small chance to stun. But it's a spike skill. Would rather have boosted skill damage when using a spike skill with such a long CD.

    Frigid Thunder: 70% chance to freeze, or a 30% slow movement debuff. While sage has 30% chance to freeze, or they get a 70% slow movement debuff. Sage had greater over-all capability of locking mobs in one small area, and negating any movement buff of a target. So both are good, but sage has higher over-all safety when using it.

    Those are the only CC. And the only sure difference one, is a 30% chance on a spike skill in exchange for reduced damage.
  • Tsukishi - DreamweaverTsukishi - Dreamweaver Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    As far as ice bullet goes, i think that +1 to the minimum stun time means you can hit 5 sec stun with just 2 ice charges, opening up more combos outside of keeping 3 ice charges up.
  • Ibunneh - Raging TideIbunneh - Raging Tide Posts: 225 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    As far as ice bullet goes, i think that +1 to the minimum stun time means you can hit 5 sec stun with just 2 ice charges, opening up more combos outside of keeping 3 ice charges up.

    ^^^^^^^^ This, I will never seem to go sage, okay yeah it may not be as MUCH CC, but Demon has way better add ons. The stack with your passives plus an extra spammable 15 def levels with buffs, is sooo much better than a #5 and 1% increase from sage.
    I love chicken wings and french fries! Yasssb:chuckle
  • laurahunlaurahun Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Maybe any can write normally sage and demon skills? Cause I didn't see somewhere...b:surrender
  • santrossantiasantrossantia Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    laurahun wrote: »
    Maybe any can write normally sage and demon skills? Cause I didn't see somewhere...b:surrender

    Subforum Commands the Storm

    I think I'll be sage
  • Joe - MoraiJoe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Out of question. Demon is the way to go.

    2 reason:

    -Stronger/longer lasting effects for the most skills (the important ones)
    -As a owner of a already twice rbed/r9-geared/full max-lvld A-Cards SB that has been active in TW and NW I can assure you that you don't need chi. You just don't need it. The only skill that is reasonable is super cell and thats 2 sparks. The other important skills are all at 30 chi each which you will always have anyways.

    I hardly drop under 3 sparks for the obvious exception of using triple spark ofc.

    So when chi is not a factor...in which way is sage of any use then?
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  • Evryn - MoraiEvryn - Morai Posts: 1,437 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I'd say Demon for the simple fact that it's an arcane DD class - in the current game that means that in both PvE and mass PvP you'll be looking for top damage. And that means demon for the Storm.

    Demon is more vulnerable however to the Storm's primary enemy, the Archer (it's buffs defend against melee phys mainly, not ranged phys).
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  • Eoria - HarshlandsEoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Demon is more vulnerable however to the Storm's primary enemy, the Archer (it's buffs defend against melee phys mainly, not ranged phys).

    How is demon more vulnerable when it has a spammable +15 def level buff?
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  • DarkSkiesx - DreamweaverDarkSkiesx - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,355 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Some other reasons for demon imo (mainly looking at a PvP perspective);

    -Demon Ice bullet having a minimum stun time of 4 seconds helps charge management as you'll likely want thunder charges for max cloudburst mag debuff
    -Demon Frigid thunder, I'd pick freeze over slow as slow can be countered/ignored by holy path which pretty much everyone has whereas a freeze requires a far less common genie skill

    -Demon Tidal Force means you can actually use this skill to hit multiple facing people, it's effective range is 30m by 6m wide
    -Cumulonimbus having a 30% chance to stun is great though the sage version does look really nice too, I'd still pick a chance to cc

    -Cloudburst 45% debuff is better than channelling taking 1.3s instead of 1.5s
    -Deafening Thunder increased aoe range by 2m is better than a dot

    -Monsoon 30% chance for 30% damage reduction is sweet, the only other damage reduction is from a charge specific supercell costing sparks
    -Thunderstrike gives you 30s to get a targets HP to 25% instead of 15 seconds for the hit to trigger which will massively help vs tankier targets

    -Demon Moonblade giving a small heal is awesome considering it's short cd though we'll have to see how much this actually heals on a 20k+ toon, idk whether the heal is based on damage done to target like BP or your magic attack, and the only other heal is either supercell or lunar blessing

    -Demon lunar blessing giving immunity for 4 seconds instead of 2 will healp alot considering its a skill you'll go to when you're getting rekt/ganked

    -Extra cast of supercell having a 1s less cast time is nice as the cast is pretty long, and only costing 1 spark also is nice even though SBs of either cultivation will be swimming in chi

    -Oh and yes the 15 defs <3

    I think StormBringers don't have as much damage output as other arcanes, so gameplay will be more focused on combo's and chaining CCs in between, having more gives demon the advantage in that respect. Trust me coming from an archer with really barely any CCs even one or two more makes a world of difference, as you can then alternate the cd's. Freeze DD stun DD freeze is off cd again etc

    I guess the question on sage is how much extra damage we talking.
    DarkSkiesx - Demon Archer
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    DarkSeasx - Sage Assassin
    mypers.pw/1.7/#136481

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  • Joe - MoraiJoe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Some other reasons for demon imo (mainly looking at a PvP perspective);

    -Demon Ice bullet having a minimum stun time of 4 seconds helps charge management as you'll likely want thunder charges for max cloudburst mag debuff
    -Demon Frigid thunder, I'd pick freeze over slow as slow can be countered/ignored by holy path which pretty much everyone has whereas a freeze requires a far less common genie skill

    -Demon Tidal Force means you can actually use this skill to hit multiple facing people, it's effective range is 30m by 6m wide
    -Cumulonimbus having a 30% chance to stun is great though the sage version does look really nice too, I'd still pick a chance to cc

    -Cloudburst 45% debuff is better than channelling taking 1.3s instead of 1.5s
    -Deafening Thunder increased aoe range by 2m is better than a dot

    -Monsoon 30% chance for 30% damage reduction is sweet, the only other damage reduction is from a charge specific supercell costing sparks
    -Thunderstrike gives you 30s to get a targets HP to 25% instead of 15 seconds for the hit to trigger which will massively help vs tankier targets

    -Demon Moonblade giving a small heal is awesome considering it's short cd though we'll have to see how much this actually heals on a 20k+ toon, idk whether the heal is based on damage done to target like BP or your magic attack, and the only other heal is either supercell or lunar blessing

    -Demon lunar blessing giving immunity for 4 seconds instead of 2 will healp alot considering its a skill you'll go to when you're getting rekt/ganked

    -Extra cast of supercell having a 1s less cast time is nice as the cast is pretty long, and only costing 1 spark also is nice even though SBs of either cultivation will be swimming in chi

    -Oh and yes the 15 defs <3

    I think StormBringers don't have as much damage output as other arcanes, so gameplay will be more focused on combo's and chaining CCs in between, having more gives demon the advantage in that respect. Trust me coming from an archer with really barely any CCs even one or two more makes a world of difference, as you can then alternate the cd's. Freeze DD stun DD freeze is off cd again etc

    I guess the question on sage is how much extra damage we talking.

    Electrostatic Discharge lasts 13 secs instead of 12^^ thats the most important pro imho^^
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    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • Tsukishi - DreamweaverTsukishi - Dreamweaver Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Out of question. Demon is the way to go.

    2 reason:

    -Stronger/longer lasting effects for the most skills (the important ones)
    -As a owner of a already twice rbed/r9-geared/full max-lvld A-Cards SB that has been active in TW and NW I can assure you that you don't need chi. You just don't need it. The only skill that is reasonable is super cell and thats 2 sparks. The other important skills are all at 30 chi each which you will always have anyways.

    I hardly drop under 3 sparks for the obvious exception of using triple spark ofc.

    So when chi is not a factor...in which way is sage of any use then?

    Do you even stop to sleep and eat O_O
  • PanboyAir - SanctuaryPanboyAir - Sanctuary Posts: 29 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This class has no potential and lacks engaging gameplay. In all aspects except moving-while-casting single target skills, it plays like a psychic. I conclude that the best way to play this class in TW is to 3 spark and launch AOEs at max range with Morai skill and dropping double supercells.

    Sage will keep the sparks coming. If you've got full chi in TW all the time, what does that say about how you're utilizing your chi? Just as I would say about a venomancer in TW when their nova is on cooldown, you're not maximizing the potential of the class.
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  • Joe - MoraiJoe - Morai Posts: 1,299 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    This class has no potential and lacks engaging gameplay. In all aspects except moving-while-casting single target skills, it plays like a psychic. I conclude that the best way to play this class in TW is to 3 spark and launch AOEs at max range with Morai skill and dropping double supercells.

    Sage will keep the sparks coming. If you've got full chi in TW all the time, what does that say about how you're utilizing your chi? Just as I would say about a venomancer in TW when their nova is on cooldown, you're not maximizing the potential of the class.

    Lol...SBs got the highest single target killing power of all classes. They even got the most AOEs of you count the close range ones as well and all of them (cept supercell) don't even have a chi cost..the morai/lvl100/S+D skills will be overkill.

    It could be too early to jump to conclusions...but judging the dmg I already deal with a tiny 340 spirit/full g16 armor and r9r belt and weap...man I can't wait to be full r9rr :(

    Already 50k pdef in reaper form, fully buffed tho (:

    I don't really rely on chi and Supercells only worthwhile effect is the skill dmg increase. Heck in reaper + SC you don't even need to triple spark to wipe anything out. Chi is a non-factor for this class if you are permanently on the move and attacking ofc. 1-2 sparks is all you should have. The bonus effects/longer times from demon still take the cake by far.

    The only thing that could get me to sage is if the primal skills would have something so powerful in their sage version, so I would have no choice but to switch.
    My Barb:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#146464

    My SB:
    mypers.pw/1.8/#141476
  • zenmonkeyzzzzenmonkeyzzz Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Every time I re-read through the skills I seem to come to a different conclusion. I think the decision is largely influenced by whether you want PvP (crit and cooldowns more important than say, sustainable damage) or PvE. Also gear matters. With top end gear/cards physical vulnerability won't be an issue as it will with lower refines or say Vana 3 gear. Also if PvE is the choice to faceroll PV100 ( where Aoe range and damage will help ) or is it to do Warsong / FSP / TT ( ie boss fights ) where stuns will almost certainly be useless. As an SB without 3rd spark yet I will agree however that chi does not seem to be an issue.

    For me the final decision might be how the 3% heal works.
  • caius775caius775 Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Both sage and demon are good but i'll be going sage for my own personal reasons. Due to me being experienced in running and casting for awhile now I noticed most players here are still in a mind set of standing still. Sage offers more fire power, increased dps. All maxed out lvl 10 skills 1v1 against other classes is not even an issue because of the fact you can move. Even against range holy path works wonders play the class right you should be chasing people instead of them chasing you. I believe sage boosts this idea more. Moonblade having a chance to curse or EP on the first hit is better than a tiny heal in my opinion once hp is like 15k+ its meh. Searing building chi is great sets you up for your next super cell increased skill dmg + transformation in pve want to be using searing as often as possible because it boost squad's skill dmg to 15% max. There is a ton of other reasons but i think people are over looking some things in a overall play style approach. Cant wait till release, abuse the power of the evasive tank/power house DD
  • Egamoto - HarshlandsEgamoto - Harshlands Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Dammit I am about to rebirth and I still havent decided which way to go!! keep this discussion alive pls QQ
This discussion has been closed.