Does this game have any playability left?

jwillson123

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide wrote: »

Interesting idea that it can't be done and while yes I am a cash shopper for my gear, I did turn around and make 300 mill into 1.3 bill in a week. It's not impossible at all. I undercut the rest of the merchants and took everything I made when my catshop was empty and refilled it with even more...rinse and repeat, until the cat shop could hold no more and I was tired of merchanting.

Know your market and what has a great investment return. I will say this...its not big ticket items.

Well maybe because in your server the competition must be extremely mediocre compared with mine.
i have been in almost every market in the game except fashion and token appo like crab meat and have not try having a cube shop.

Jadsia - Lost City

jwillson123 wrote: »

Well maybe because in your server the competition must be extremely mediocre compared with mine.
i have been in almost every market in the game except fashion and token appo like crab meat and have not try having a cube shop.

It's not just his server. I do well on mine too when I go full cut throat merchant mode and just undercut the **** out of everyone.

opkossy

jwillson123 wrote: »

Well maybe because in your server the competition must be extremely mediocre compared with mine.
i have been in almost every market in the game except fashion and token appo like crab meat and have not try having a cube shop.

It's all part of learning the markets and when and how to sell. Every server I play actively can have a merchant do well on them as long as they know what they're doing for the market they invest in.

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide

OPKossy wrote: »

It's all part of learning the markets and when and how to sell. Every server I play actively can have a merchant do well on them as long as they know what they're doing for the market they invest in.

It also means taking a big risk. I lucked out but also wouldn't hesitate in doing it again. It just means I might have a lot of overhead I dont move for a while, and coins basically stuck in limbo. The old adage 'in order to make money you have to spend money' even works in PW, but you can also find yourself stuck with merchant items for longer than you anticipated.

jwillson123

OPKossy wrote: »

It's all part of learning the markets and when and how to sell. Every server I play actively can have a merchant do well on them as long as they know what they're doing for the market they invest in.

Well I know the market better than most people and know how to sell way better.
But I do not make 1 billion a coins a week from merchanting alone.
I could never make 4 billion a month of pure profit merchanting is not realistic at all.

The market is not like botting is limited.

I do not think is it possible at all to make more than 2 billions a month of pure profit with just merchanting alone.

Also under cutting does not work so well.
I was undercutting with a competitor we were making 1 million profit per sale till we ended up over cutting so hard we ended up making only 50,000 per sale.

I can believe it from LuckingFoco because he said himself in another thread he was cashing boutique items and selling them for very cheap.

But doing a billion a week without cashing no way is exaggeration.


I know the market way better than most people in my server.
Not only do I know who the owners are without they telling me I also know how much they usually invest since I use my sin to check the catshop inventory of my competitors every day.

opkossy

jwillson123 wrote: »

Well I know the market better than most people and know how to sell way better.

Are you sure? If there's even one merchant more successful than you on your server, it means that's a false statement. Can you claim to be the most successful merchant on the server and back that up?

Also under cutting does not work so well.
I was undercutting with a competitor we were making 1 million profit per sale till we ended up over cutting so hard we ended up making only 50,000 per sale.

And? You're not mentioning volume or item type, among many other things, that are a major factor on whether or not that worked well or not. You say you know how to sell way better than most so it should be obvious to you that you didn't include enough information to prove a point here.


Item price alone is not an indicator of how well it's going. If you're as good as you claim, you should know that it's both profit margin and volume. I can sell an item for 20m, but it doesn't do me any good compared to the guy who managed to sell 20 of the same item for 5m in the same time it took me to sell my one item for 20m. Not only is the guy who's selling for cheaper getting a greater total profit from volume of sales, but they're also getting more they can compound that profit on as a result, which lets them sell even more items and at a much more rapid pace. Any successful merchant will tell you that the volume of sales matters far more than the individual profit margins in most cases. Time is very much a factor and sitting on big expensive items for too long is going to be costing you profit compared to selling a large quantity of much cheaper items in the same time.

LuckingFoco - Raging Tide

First of all I said one billion in a week, not four billion a month. I would agree the latter would be extremy difficult, however if you time your purchases with game coin, on items people want, it can be easy to in-and-out merchant over a short period.

Seems many forget its better to sell 1000 items for 20,000 coin rather than 500 for 40,000. Sure you might sell those 500 eventually, but by the time you do, I would have sold 50x what you have. And regarding my week of coins rolling in, I was only undercutting the other merchants by 10 to 50 coins each. My cat shop kept running out so turn around buy gold from AH (at the time it wasn't at cap), and take everything and buy again...over and over.

It was more of an experiment to see why people say they can't make coin in game, but when you are so focused on leveling you spend spend spend.

madblooddoll

this game is as dead as star trek online another perfect world game. They add too much bad and go one step too far and kill their games.

Jadsia - Lost City

madblooddoll wrote: »

this game is as dead as star trek online another perfect world game. They add too much bad and go one step too far and kill their games.

If I had 1 coin for every freaking time someone whined about this game being dead I'd have full r9rrr +12 full JSOD

Aubree - Dreamweaver

jwillson123 wrote: »

Well I know the market better than most people and know how to sell way better.
But I do not make 1 billion a coins a week from merchanting alone.
I could never make 4 billion a month of pure profit merchanting is not realistic at all.

The market is not like botting is limited.

I do not think is it possible at all to make more than 2 billions a month of pure profit with just merchanting alone.

Also under cutting does not work so well.
I was undercutting with a competitor we were making 1 million profit per sale till we ended up over cutting so hard we ended up making only 50,000 per sale.

I can believe it from LuckingFoco because he said himself in another thread he was cashing boutique items and selling them for very cheap.

But doing a billion a week without cashing no way is exaggeration.


I know the market way better than most people in my server.
Not only do I know who the owners are without they telling me I also know how much they usually invest since I use my sin to check the catshop inventory of my competitors every day.

I think the biggest problem with making 1b pofit per week is the amount of gold you would have to cycle to achieve it. Being able to buy only 49g every 2 days hampers that greatly. The only way to pure merch it is to have a substantial amount of gold already stocked. I think I made only about 500m last week due to that problem alone. I ended up having my cousin, my son and 2 of my accounts all buying 49g at the same times and constantly putting in for more gold each time I was able to purchase the gold.

I also don't under cut. I price match. You can call me Target! I will price match any competitor until they knock it the f off. b:laugh

zenmonkeyzzz

Lol finding people casually talking about 1billion per week makes me both a little depressed with what I thought was doing OK but also so happy that I chose to be a non R9 non PvP player from the start.

jwillson123

Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think the biggest problem with making 1b pofit per week is the amount of gold you would have to cycle to achieve it. Being able to buy only 49g every 2 days hampers that greatly. The only way to pure merch it is to have a substantial amount of gold already stocked. I think I made only about 500m last week due to that problem alone. I ended up having my cousin, my son and 2 of my accounts all buying 49g at the same times and constantly putting in for more gold each time I was able to purchase the gold.

I also don't under cut. I price match. You can call me Target! I will price match any competitor until they knock it the f off. b:laugh

You understand my point.
Also yes price match is a better strategy than undercutting competition.
They will think twice of undercutting you.

OPKossy wrote: »

Are you sure? If there's even one merchant more successful than you on your server, it means that's a false statement. Can you claim to be the most successful merchant on the server and back that up?



And? You're not mentioning volume or item type, among many other things, that are a major factor on whether or not that worked well or not. You say you know how to sell way better than most so it should be obvious to you that you didn't include enough information to prove a point here.


Item price alone is not an indicator of how well it's going. If you're as good as you claim, you should know that it's both profit margin and volume. I can sell an item for 20m, but it doesn't do me any good compared to the guy who managed to sell 20 of the same item for 5m in the same time it took me to sell my one item for 20m. Not only is the guy who's selling for cheaper getting a greater total profit from volume of sales, but they're also getting more they can compound that profit on as a result, which lets them sell even more items and at a much more rapid pace. Any successful merchant will tell you that the volume of sales matters far more than the individual profit margins in most cases. Time is very much a factor and sitting on big expensive items for too long is going to be costing you profit compared to selling a large quantity of much cheaper items in the same time.

I will prove you wrong with a simple math demonstration.

Another example Dragon Orbs
Lets say you undercutting to sell high volume and selling them for 130 million you make a 10 million profit per sale.
You would need to Sell 100 Dragon orbs in 7 days to reach 1 billion profit.
130,000,000 x 100 = 13,000,000,000 BILLION in sales in 7 days
1,857,142,857 Billon in SALES PER DAY!!!!
I REPEAT 1.8 Billion Per Day in Sales!!!!

Yes you can sell other items than the ones on sale but they not going to sell as fast as the item on sale.

Anyone who Claims that they can sell that amount per day is disillusioned and not actually merchanting Or Cashing a lot so that they make 100% income without investing coins!

I base my opinion on experience

I never said I was the most successful because i do not have a huge budget The most successful ones been merchanting for years but I can make sure they do not sell as much as me during a sell.

I know because I was making sure they where not selling as much as me I was checking their stock and checking if they where making sells or not.
Its very simple just screenshot their inventory twice a day minimum.
I usually checked them more than 5 times a day.
There are other strategies too I will not mention here.


Any Knowledgeable merchant knows the Market has a Limit. Yes you can undercut very cheap but then the sales will just stop when it reach its capacity.
So selling 10 billion to 15 billion in goods in 7 days is not possible at all.
Seriously is like claiming that you selling more than Half the total goods in the market!

lol I am not going to go to each catshop in the server to see total market on sale lol.
But I am sure the total market of goods been sold in each server is 30 billion to 40 billion.

OFate - Heavens Tear

I'm not a greedy person... and if I get a rare, I have no problems selling it cheaper than the others are selling it for.

But here's the thing > when I WC the sale >> I get severely griefed and told how my greed is ruining the game.. and they basically want the item for easily 1/10th of it's worth.

So sure, I leaned once... I sold the person the item for 10+ million less and listened to them hurl insults at me...

Not five minutes later, they are selling the item for the same exact amount every one else is.


So the question then becomes... how exactly do we get back to lower prices -- when all that will happen is those with $$ will buy us out -- and just turn around and sell those same items for as much as everyone else is?

And in the end.. our meaning well... to try to help the economy >> did nothing... but help someone that was greedy.

The truth is - it all starts and ends with them game itself. When we do not have enough to farm... enough to sell.. and ALL of us - not just the ones strong enough to solo instances or the 100+... only then will the economy begin to correct itself.

iconique

OFate - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm not a greedy person... and if I get a rare, I have no problems selling it cheaper than the others are selling it for.

But here's the thing > when I WC the sale >> I get severely griefed and told how my greed is ruining the game.. and they basically want the item for easily 1/10th of it's worth.

So sure, I leaned once... I sold the person the item for 10+ million less and listened to them hurl insults at me...

Not five minutes later, they are selling the item for the same exact amount every one else is.

The resellers on HT suck total monkey nuts, I've learned it's just better to vendor or auction your items at "normal prices", because eventually someone thirsty enough will buy it.

Skippy - Dreamweaver

You dont have to merch to make money, i never merched and im doin ok

The only thing i ever did, and still do, is farming mats and sell them in several catshops, herbs are worth some coin still especially before TW time

Some key TT mats that are needed for the TT 99 set sell well

Heck my biggest selling mat is the chintien plate, wich is from the first boss in TT 1-3, i alone can get 30/40 mil worth of mats a day.

catn

dude if u are tired of dead facs than join horrified thar not a dead fac and if u want to go in to a instance just ask some one in the fac or if u need help than do the same thing ask

OFate - Heavens Tear

Skippy - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Heck my biggest selling mat is the chintien plate, wich is from the first boss in TT 1-3, i alone can get 30/40 mil worth of mats a day.

Getting 30/40 million of mats a day is one thing > selling them... and actually obtaining 30/40 million a day .. is something very different.

I loaned a person that farmed TT heavily 50 million. It took them over a month to sell his mats - to pay me back - using both the broker and vending cat.

On my server, I craft the foundation TT gear and it honestly takes over a week to sell one item, even for a very sparse amount.

It's getting more and more difficult to make any type of profit, unless that is all you do for 8 hours a day... farm.. farm farm... and farm what? What really sells?

Farm plants? Botters can do it faster > sell it cheaper... and they do. Farm TT? +12 weapon Sins enter, get through, exit before you can even pull a squad together.

My point is that there is no real merchandizing left for anyone lower level, or not completely OP or let me add the person that has time on their hands to play all day.

This is not the way a game should be... I play other games, I know.


A person that is new to the game, should have something available to them, in order to make some measure of funds. They and others should not have to continually count on either buying > reselling cash shop items or gold to make any sort of headway in the game. It's wrong.

And head to some servers... can't really sell if there is little to no one to buy.

Skippy - Dreamweaver

OFate - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Getting 30/40 million of mats a day is one thing > selling them... and actually obtaining 30/40 million a day .. is something very different.

I loaned a person that farmed TT heavily 50 million. It took them over a month to sell his mats - to pay me back - using both the broker and vending cat.

On my server, I craft the foundation TT gear and it honestly takes over a week to sell one item, even for a very sparse amount.

It's getting more and more difficult to make any type of profit, unless that is all you do for 8 hours a day... farm.. farm farm... and farm what? What really sells?

Farm plants? Botters can do it faster > sell it cheaper... and they do. Farm TT? +12 weapon Sins enter, get through, exit before you can even pull a squad together.

My point is that there is no real merchandizing left for anyone lower level, or not completely OP or let me add the person that has time on their hands to play all day.

This is not the way a game should be... I play other games, I know.


A person that is new to the game, should have something available to them, in order to make some measure of funds. They and others should not have to continually count on either buying > reselling cash shop items or gold to make any sort of headway in the game. It's wrong.

And head to some servers... can't really sell if there is little to no one to buy.

Selling it is the easy part, only requires patience, and so what that a sin is 15 minutes faster then me? On a good week il have 40 mil a week and i am satisfied with that

People just dont have patience nowadays

c44102

No the game is kinda dead unless u wanna pay 50,000$ per char to be full end game to be honest and they u have to pay that much roughly if your puck sucks with packs for your cards per char pwi has became too greedy now so think about that before comming back

Colum - Raging Tide

The game has a lot of playability left, be a cash shopper or not, at least if you're looking for actual MMO aspects instead of rushing to the endgame.

roibushtee

I skipped most of the posts cuz of lack of time, but here a few thoughts about the topic:

Yes, it might appear hard to reach the goal of descent refined G16, full R9 or whatsoever if you just calculate how many gold you would need and how many coins that would be and how long you have to farm for that and how cheap stuff was some years ago.


But, and that's just my opinion, actually I don't think to make money and reach that goals became that much harder.
It might be just me, but when I started 2009, gold was around 100k (Heaven's Tear back then). Atleast for me, a total MMO noob, it was really hard to make money! The first thing I ever bought from boutique (with farmed money!) was a super slow mount (that's for free today...) for about 1kk. I farmed over 1 month for that, being around level 60!

When I got higher level and learned that TT can bring money, It still took me months to get enough gold to marry the first time (what was 3kk per person! But you have to consider that you mostly had full squads, best gear was something around TT90-99 and you were not able to "rush" or "spam" instances solo like today. Even "super OP herc venos" needed some time!)

Back in time, there were no jollies, no BH (and rewards), no FSP or events where you could win money (or atleast less).

Long story short: stuff was cheaper, but you had to work hard cuz there were less ways to gain money (money as in "coins")
Today, there are so much more ways to make money, no matter what level or gear (Bh Rewards, Auto cultivation, Jollies, Events (like Tigers) etc). Ofc, better gear = faster money. But even a lvl 40 toon would make more money in a week or even day than I made with my lvl 60 veno back thenb:shocked
Seeing it like this, I think the relation from money to work didn't even change that much.



You also don't have to do everything that brings money at once. You don't like cube? Neither do I. Sell your NW-Tokens instead, if you don't need them.
You feel unlucky with BH? Do jollies today instead.
You just need to find out a comfortable way for yourself and your gameplay. There are so many ways, just try different ones.

F.e. I had a time where I farmed cube for CoGs...but I rly hate this piece of...instance! So I switched to farm G15/G16 and sell that for a while, was tired of FWS after a few weeks and started to merchandise an item, after some more time I switched to TT - just as I liked. This way, you will also find out what brings most fun and money for you.

Don't rush yourself like "I still have to do cube and Bh and dailies and farm TT and FSP......" Do what you want when you want. Else you will be stressed and lose all fun in game.

Ofc it's tempting to think: the more I do on a daily base, the sooner I get my [insert goal here]. But believe me, you are allowed to be lazy sometimes I am, and still somehow managed to b halfway to my 2. full R9 without cashing (not saying I don't at all, but didn't for that goal yet).

On a sidenote: I personally love to set such kind of goals and then work for them (breakdowns, "I dont wanna do that anymore b:cry" - moments, "Go and F...luff yourself!!"-situations etc included...). Just don't settle them too high and you will be surprised how much motivation it will give you, when you almost reached your goall or see, how you come closer to it.


All in all: Yes, the game is different. But you can't compare the old times with the ones today. If it was more fun a few years back or now, everyone has to decide by himself. But I think it's just "different", not "impossible" to reach goals now.
Is there playable content left? For sure. it all depents on how you set your gameplay, your goals, your time etc.

hypereccentrik

Yes, this game is still very playable. There are so many ways to make money and farm for gear. Also there is so many giveaways to help out the new player it's ridiculous to think otherwise.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

O.o

Not gonna lie, when a full pve "endgame" set of g16+7 with ornaments tome etc runs a whopping 500 mill, and purely casual play nets 3+ mill a day at 90+...

(500/3)/28 = 5.95

6 months is the time it used to take to no life your way to 100 with tt90 gear. Now its the time it takes to 105/105/105 with enough gear to completely trivialize pve content.

Also its not like you can just share that gear in an account stash or skill book+sell extras for 11 skills at all, making additional characters that share your gear type absolutely free, thats unpossible.

You'll be fine. The game has never been easier or more forgiving to new players.

If you want to be a pvp god for no in game effort, go work a summer job kid. Then regret deeply.

OFate - Heavens Tear

jwillson123 wrote: »

I will prove you wrong with a simple math demonstration.

Another example Dragon Orbs
Lets say you undercutting to sell high volume and selling them for 130 million you make a 10 million profit per sale.
You would need to Sell 100 Dragon orbs in 7 days to reach 1 billion profit.
130,000,000 x 100 = 13,000,000,000 BILLION in sales in 7 days
1,857,142,857 Billon in SALES PER DAY!!!!
I REPEAT 1.8 Billion Per Day in Sales!!!!

Sure... we can just materialize 100 Dragon orbs.... within 7 days from thin air.

You are aware that even if we do have this many, the people that buy from us > need to be making $$ in the game in addition... SO.. they can purchase 100 Dragon orbs in 7 days >>> that's... what is not happening.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

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Play, sure. But I wouldn't recommend spending your money. Pay in game and spend their money.