Cleric stat help?

WannaBM - Archosaur

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Again, what part of people needing advice are generally not going to be R9r3? 50 DEF lvl and 14K pdef in your example? And that person needs advice on where to stat? Are you serious?

Did you look ? i made different ones. Also one with 8k pdef.

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Try using a normal calculator without made-up values, it's a lot easier to see what I am talking about when saying the values you guys are tossing around are insane for someone leveling up and in need of advice.

I ask you, what stats should i enter ? This is calculator is perfectly normal and fine. It is the the standard. Everyone uses it. Astrelle doesnt make ****. A little more respect for it please.

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

So here, use this and try and make something with non-imaginary-land numbers
http://pwi.ecatomb.net/character.php

It doesnt have any stats in the link you entered. All stats have to be immaginary because i am a barb, not a cleric.
Why dont you just tell me what stats to enter then instead of complain about mine while i give you a bunch of different ones.

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

And while you guys use made up numbers, I use actual looking at other people in the game for back-up evidence. I saw someone in T15 nirvana gear die over and over, 6 times, on one boss

So basically you are talking trash about astrelles calculator and your counter argument is "i see people with vit shard die". b:surrender

And even though it does not matter. I have chosen multiple stats. You have now tried to narrow down the thread to 100 vit only on non R9 clerics.

Plz read again my post number 27.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

Your stats are completely made up, that is the problem. And I am not trashing Ast's calculator, it works if you know the values.

The link I provided actually has you put in the gear, sharding, and refines that would be derived to use Ast's calculator. My point was when you see the gear/shards/refines required to make it, it would obvious that isn't early or mid-game gear in the slightest. That would be completely end game gear, and someone playing that long is unlikely to be coming here to get info on how to spec their character.

Is it really that hard to comprehend someone playing long enough to get end game gear isn't coming to these forums to get advice on that; that either they figured it out themselves, or got advice from their faction/friends in game?

EDIT: *insert religious name taken in vain* Why are you saying I am talking about R9 clerics? I was pointing out 100 vit isn't enough to do jack, until they get end game geared. And the end game geared, again, ad nauseum, would know whether or not they would need it. My point is, was, and always has been that 100 VIT is not enough to make a difference enough against the OP squads you run into, that it is worth weakening from full magic to get it. Because the 100 VIT was something used back when TT was end game gear. The difference with nuema, pokemon cards, meridians, et al have rendered the over-all effect of 100 VIT to not mattering near as much as it did. And simple math showing over-all effect of it would even prove that anyways.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Last paragraph post 27. Try to ****** be reasonable and stop bull****ting now. It is litterally 2 minutes work to enter the values that you think are reasonable in astrelles calc and show me how garnets are better with those.

And i hope you understand astrelles calc is endlessly better than any calc where you have to put the gear into it. There are too many variables now with the nuemas etc to make that any usefull. Just like PWcalc has become rather useless for looking at stats.

You just keep defending vit no matter what reasoning. Then you narrow it down to only your selection of non R9 and 100 vit. You talk about "stupidly sharding vit" but when i go into that, you keep dismissing everything while you fail to come with counter proof.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

Last paragraph post 27. Try to ****** be reasonable and stop bull****ting now. It is litterally 2 minutes work to enter the values that you think are reasonable in astrelles calc and show me how garnets are better with those.

Is it even worth it? IE do you have a cleric you can post with? Sating your curiousity when you've argued from self-admitted ignorance this whole time is pretty much a waste.

WannaBM - Archosaur

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

Is it even worth it? IE do you have a cleric you can post with? Sating your curiousity when you've argued from self-admitted ignorance this whole time is pretty much a waste.

The only cleric i have is not relevant. It has morai gear, 2 pieces of G16 LA. 150 vit statted. And with that build it does actually have part garnets. On that build garnet and cit were pretty close because the gear is really really terrible, vit is statted, HP bonus from the LA is there. This is a cleric that gets 10k HPs out of the absolute cheapest equipment possible with vit statted only made to survive for doing blueball as a dual client support cleric. Very niche and obviously totally opposed to what you are promoting. (and you wont see it die 6 times anywhere i promise)

Why do you keep trying to attack me, the calculator, the stats i choose. Stop trying to divert the cause of discussion. You said "stupidly statting vit". Now prove yourself by providing a link to astrelles calculator that shows how garnet is better. And dont find anything new to divert the topic now. Prove that garnets are better or admit that you were wrong. I may be posting from a barb, but i have been calculating for many hours to design that cleric. It did actually end up with garnets but only because of its exceptional build where most of the other aspects are designed to increase its HPs. (as said, totally opposite to what you advocate). So no, there is absolutely no self admitted ignorance.

And ignorant me must have done something right cuz while i see many clerics call for help on firepav defence, this Morai geared vit and partly LA cleric solos it fine. It also doesnt fear few bubbles from emperor nor AOE attacks like hellfire abomination.

Sylvae - Sanctuary

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

The only cleric i have is not relevant. It has morai gear, 2 pieces of G16 LA. 150 vit statted. And with that build it does actually have part garnets. On that build garnet and cit were pretty close because the gear is really really terrible and we arent talking 14k pdef on an endgame nor 8k pdef on a mediocre cleric. This is a cleric in the absolute cheapest equipment possible with vit statted and only made to survive for doing blueball as a dual client support cleric. Very niche.

Why do you keep trying to attack me, the calculator, the stats i choose. Stop trying to divert the cause of discussion. You said "stupidly statting vit". Now prove yourself by providing a link to astrelles calculator that shows how garnet is better. And dont find anything new to divert the topic now. Prove that garnets are better or admit that you were wrong.

So basically you came here, knowing jack all, and arguing for something you have absolutely no clue about, and place the burden of proof completely on someone else, providing none of your own whatsoever, and declare it an automatic win if I don't?

That is ridiculous as hell, but first let me prove you wrong just by existing.

I started in 2008, no vit. Leveled up to 83 by Dec 2008, no vit. Did FBs at lvl, with at lvl or under players. At no point did I require extra health to do anything, and considering I didn't have high levels around to plow through it, pretty much proves 0 vit clerics could power through everything without issue for PvE content. And with the state it is now, people do their BHs 10 lvls above the FB, if it isn't flat out run for them anyways.

For PvP, I was in top 5 server, top spot after the first pvp TWs went back to back. 3 months of no playing after that, still top 10 player in pvp rankings. So that proved it wasn't necessary then.

But this is now, and I prove it everytime I play. Proof for PvE? How about what I freaking already said during a Rebirth where the squishy died left and right. I know they had T15 citrines, I looked at their gear with player info when they did so terrible. For PvP that's currently a bit harder, because the at gear people I play against are horrible. Clerics who have no clue how to use their seals properly (they sleep, IB, and attack right away without drawing it out.) So I kill better geared clerics with lesser gear. Only thing I can prove, is vit is not at all responsible for that, but would make killing them harder if I put points there.

As for 200-300 free stats, are you high? If someone has emperor and R9r3, maybe. But again, despite how mind-numbingly obvious it is to anyone with a function cortex; End gamers aren't coming here for stat info!! Maybe how to play, because hyper doesn't teach that, but they have their stats locked in. And they wouldn't even know if they need to change attributes, until they learn how to play anyways!

And for ecatomb not being accurate, you're still dumbing in the same way. You expect them to have high meridian levels? Oh wait, they'd have to play a couple months for that! Nuema? Same fricking thing!! War Avatars? Oh yeah, level to 100, rebirth, and then when you FSP you finally get some that will matter. Early? NO!

So you're still hitting the crackpipe trying to use those excuses. The sad thing is, this needed to be pointed out to you. When it's the same freaking argument from the very beginning. Stop. Throwing. In. End. Game. Gear. Into. Discussions. of. Something. Basic. You're just living down to the barb forum standard, and those idiots thought beast form's 50% weapon damage reduction meant they did half damage for a year solid.

The thing is, I don't even need to disprove you. This is the cleric forum, with clerics most likely reading it. Me saying they are terrible values you used doesn't matter; everyone else reading your ideas of cleric mid game will be enough. They can look at what you posted, in all likelihood realize it has nothing to do with them, and ignore you. Because for your made up numbers to matter, they actually have to matter. And it doesn't matter what either of us argue on that, its value will be determined by whoever reads. And any cleric coming up, should get a laugh at them.

So try using your cleric for PvP and come back with how amazing they are, though given they are LA really kinda proves the phys def over citrine on its own. Because you gave up mag def and vit, to put into dex for the extra phys def. And the crit wouldn't matter in BB. So in your own example, you kind of showed why phys def is better, or are you saying you messed up?

WannaBM - Archosaur

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

So basically you came here, knowing jack all, and arguing for something you have absolutely no clue about, and place the burden of proof completely on someone else, providing none of your own whatsoever, and declare it an automatic win if I don't?

Hahahahah, that is exactly what you are doing. I come with builds. You come with nothing.
Didnt read the rest. You keep repeating the same pattern. Anything i come with arguments, links, calculations that prove you wrong. You totally ignore it and instead of trying to prove yourself right, you turn into some sillly counter attack with no substance just shouting "about igorance and knowing jack". Useless to debate with you.

Edit, now i did read it. It becomes even more sad. Instead of proving yourself with proof, you start proving yourself with bragging lol.

Sylvae - Sanctuary wrote: »

So try using your cleric for PvP and come back with how amazing they are, though given they are LA really kinda proves the phys def over citrine on its own. Because you gave up mag def and vit, to put into dex for the extra phys def. And the crit wouldn't matter in BB. So in your own example, you kind of showed why phys def is better, or are you saying you messed up?

At least you are predictable. I expected this reasoning.

No it works like this:

Effective HP = HP * damage reduction factor.

If you increase one of these 2 factors, the value of increasing it more goes down and the value of increasing the other goes up.

My cleric has increased HPs from the LA set bonus and vit. It has decreased damage reduction from the crappy morai gear and ornies. (The LA parts are cape and helm, they dont provide pdef nor require dex and are chosen only for the set bonus)

Therefore, on my cleric garnets come out much more positve compared to citrines than on a standard full magic cleric with warsong belt and cube neck.

Since you wont understand it probably i added a picture to explain.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g35/Wacken79/explanationforthesimple.jpg

Eoria - Harshlands

lawd, what happened here.

@WannaBM- Most clerics will go for mostly pdef over hp shards if simply because you usually get enough hp via refines, cards, etc. than you do pdef. A lot of it depends on what your gear is at currently though. Someone with lower refines (say +3 or something) will want a bit more hp shards than pdef shards and someone at higher refines (+7 or so?) will want more pdef shards.

Personally, I have two pieces jaded, one with g11 cits, and the other three with g10 garnets atm. Prior to the jades, one of those was sharded with g11 cits and the other with g9 garnets. But uhh...I guess I'm too op for this thread.

@Sylvae- Ah where to begin...

I seriously don't care how good you're considered on your server. ):

OP came in asking a question. I answered in the broadest way possible to cover both possibilities, though probably should have elaborated with the pve part being just make sure they have enough HP to survive the instances. Dunno why you have such an issue with that.

Vit build isn't just 100 vit and done. There are plenty that go higher than that, myself included. The only thing I caution is to not go pure vit seeing as that will just ironically let you die faster since your plume shell will break just that much easier.

And I'm still not sure what your point is with vit build 1v1ing in vd. Sure, I can 1v1 people just fine when I have 250 base vit. It would be easier if I had less vit statted. Thankfully, I don't play for 1v1. And for Aurora Blast/Aurora Burst, idk why you're bringing up the heal like it's the only thing that skill does.

As for my numbers, no I'm not making that up. I check people's HP when they're in squad with me. The pure mag people are sitting around 13k-14k while vit statted goes up to 15k-17k depending on how much they have. I'm personally sitting at 17,190 atm.